There's been a lot of threads about Path of the Beast because there's a lot to talk about. But I want to focus on what I think is a huge miss, in what I think is an (overall) great new subclass. BITE. I can't help but conclude two things on this option, and I'm wondering if any of you disagree.
1. It is Very circumstantial. You must choose between Bite, Claws, or Tail at the time you rage. The Bite ONLY has the healing affect if you're below 50% on hit points. You must choose your form at the time you go into rage. If you never drop below half hit points during the combat encounter (which is usually the case), this beast form has done absolutely nothing useful. In a rare situation where going into next combat encounter already badly battered (with no access to healing), then it can at least be used. But.... #2
2. It is mechanically bad. Levels 1-4 you regain 2 hit points per round (assuming you hit every round), and how much damage are you receiving per round on average? Levels 5-8 it goes up to 3 hit points of healing, but enemies have also scaled more so, and the trend continues as you gain levels. At level 16, how meaningful is 4 hit points of healing per round? And this isn't even all. Imagine your maximum hit points is 50 and you're down to 20. A couple of rounds rounds later you hit both times and luckily you did not take damage. Now you have 25, and your bit healing stops until you take damage again.
Proposed Solution: If your hit points are at or below 50% of the maximum, you can grow fangs as a reaction, which you can use to bit as a melee attack. It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus. This ability lasts until your rage ends. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.
Why the limited use? Because as written it would allow you to keep your claws or tail, while still having the bite option on each of your turns. It also does not stop working if your hit points rise above 50%.
Form of the Beast
3rd-level Path of the Beast feature
When you enter your rage, you can transform, revealing the bestial power within you. Until the rage ends, you manifest a natural weapon. It counts as a simple melee weapon for you, and you add your Strength modifier to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with it, as normal.
You choose the weapon’s form each time you rage:
Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.
First, I agree with all of your points. The bite is so mechanically weak as to be questionably useful even when its niche arises.
I was thinking about a fix too the other day. Mine was to drop the whole THP thing entirely. I think it leads to bad design constraints. I also just don't need the "eating" flavor; doesn't do anything for me. Instead I would like to have a "roar" ability that does an AOE intimidate/debuff. The roar would happen upon activating rage, and would be usable again each turn as a bonus action. No idea how to balance that, but that's the concept. I liked the idea of having each natural weapon have its own special action economy. Bite - bonus action roar, Claw - no action attack, Tail - reaction AC boost.
I like your fix mechanically, but changing it from another form to something you always gets upsets my sensibilities. Just a personal preference thing.
First, I agree with all of your points. The bite is so mechanically weak as to be questionably useful even when its niche arises.
I was thinking about a fix too the other day. Mine was to drop the whole THP thing entirely. I think it leads to bad design constraints. I also just don't need the "eating" flavor; doesn't do anything for me. Instead I would like to have a "roar" ability that does an AOE intimidate/debuff. The roar would happen upon activating rage, and would be usable again each turn as a bonus action. No idea how to balance that, but that's the concept. I liked the idea of having each natural weapon have its own special action economy. Bite - bonus action roar, Claw - no action attack, Tail - reaction AC boost.
I like your fix mechanically, but changing it from another form to something you always gets upsets my sensibilities. Just a personal preference thing.
I took a hard look at the Leonin. This is just a race feature.
Daunting Roar. As a bonus action, you can let out an especially menacing roar. Creatures of your choice within 10 feet of you that can hear you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you until the end of your next turn. The DC of the save equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier. Once you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
I agree that Bite's healing feels like too little too late on the occasions that it comes up at all. I'd start with removing the under 50% clause. Just let it heal all the time. If it still felt like a non-option after playtesting that a bit, I might remove the 'once on your turn' so you could potentially heal with both bites.
One other angle I might approach it with is to make it a d4 or d6 bonus action attack. I think this would have been a lot more appropriate, but unfortunately it already exists as racial features for longtooth shifters and lizardmen (without the healing).
For an 'always on' solution, I'd probably remove the bite completely and just say when a ranging beast drops below 50%, if they land an attack on their turn they are invigorated and gain [prof] temp hp.
And as for the roar, it would be pretty tough to balance. It's hard to think of a buff significant enough to be worthwhile but weak enough to be appropriate for a bonus action every round. 5e has kind of done away with incremental debuffs that might work in a situation like that. Deafened is too weak/situational, but Frightened is too strong. Prone or small AOE thunder damage might be ok with a save DC.
Leonin! Awesome find SeanJP. I completely forgot about those cat people. Not a huge fan of leonin/tabaxi so it just fell off my radar.
What if the roar gave disadvantage on attacks? There's plenty of design space with save DCs, range, number of targets and number of attacks effected. Maybe the roar forces a concentration check from spellcasters as well. I think that leaves a lot of nobs to turn for balance issues while providing a debuff you want to activate turn after turn.
And it would synergize with reckless attacks. (maybe too much, that would be a big sticking point for balance issues)
The way I see it, Bite makes your mouth a 1d12 weapon, but instead of hurting the enemy for an average of 6,5 hit points, it hurts the enemy for 4,5 and heals you for 2. Regardless, the relative change in hit points between you and the enemy is the same. At level 5 and above Bite becomes slightly stronger than a 1d12 weapon, though only for the first hit on your turn. At Tier 4 it's akin to a 1d20 weapon when it comes to expected relative hit point change.
Now, I concede that Bite is indeed very situational. It's only ever strong when you're at less than half your hit points, but if you're frequently getting into combat with less than half your hit points remaining, you're probably not long for this world.
Bite is not a good option, but it starts looking slightly better when seen from the perspective of the narrow niche it works for. It's fortunate that the other two options are much stronger.
Leonin! Awesome find SeanJP. I completely forgot about those cat people. Not a huge fan of leonin/tabaxi so it just fell off my radar.
What if the roar gave disadvantage on attacks? There's plenty of design space with save DCs, range, number of targets and number of attacks effected. Maybe the roar forces a concentration check from spellcasters as well. I think that leaves a lot of nobs to turn for balance issues while providing a debuff you want to activate turn after turn.
And it would synergize with reckless attacks. (maybe too much, that would be a big sticking point for balance issues)
The way I see it, Bite makes your mouth a 1d12 weapon, but instead of hurting the enemy for an average of 6,5 hit points, it hurts the enemy for 4,5 and heals you for 2. Regardless, the relative change in hit points between you and the enemy is the same. At level 5 and above Bite becomes slightly stronger than a 1d12 weapon, though only for the first hit on your turn. At Tier 4 it's akin to a 1d20 weapon when it comes to expected relative hit point change.
Now, I concede that Bite is indeed very situational. It's only ever strong when you're at less than half your hit points, but if you're frequently getting into combat with less than half your hit points remaining, you're probably not long for this world.
Bite is not a good option, but it starts looking slightly better when seen from the perspective of the narrow niche it works for. It's fortunate that the other two options are much stronger.
There's an indirect defensive aspect to just dealing more damage. The enemies die quicker, which is less rounds they have to cause damage. Also, even if you look at it from that perspective, doing d10 damage per attack as a special feature is itself pretty bad. The Barbarian can wield d10, d12, and 2d6 weapons all day long with just regular attacks, some of them with reach.
The claws are lovely. 2d6 + 2(ability score + rage) as a single attack.
SeanJP, I mean for the roar to cause disadvantage on attacks without being tied to the frightened condition. Something like:
Roar: everyone within 10' has to make a save or have disadvantage on their next attack against you. Spellcasters in the area have to make a concentration save to maintain concentration on any spell they are casting.
Basic function, not sure what the numbers should be for balance.
I'm not sure it is as weak as you think. It's a d8 weapon you can gain at (almost) any time, which doesn't use your hands. You could use a shield and grapple an enemy, or grapple 2 enemies, while still having your bite. The healing effect is small, I'll grant you, but it's not far off half a healing potion, for free every round you are under half HP (and hit, of course).
I think it looks so weak because you are comparing it to 2 much stronger options: Claws will inflict more damage, and tail gives both reach and a defensive reaction. It's the weakest (or, at least, the most situational) of the three. If you know in advance that you are going to need it, though, it could be a life saver.
If I was the DM, I would consider allowing a change to Bite when you drop below 50% (maybe bonus action)... I'd have to evaluate how that affected play, and it would remove/dilute a strategic choice which the Barb would need to make.
remove/dilute a strategic choice which the Barb would need to make.
See my complaint is that this is already the case. We're comparing Bite to Tail and Claws because you choose between those three. If the Bite is never a better choice, then it's not really a choice at all. I don't want it to be super strong, just competitive with the alternatives.
While Bite does heal a bit, I'd argue that the other two options are great at preventing at least that much damage in the first place - Tail by attacking with reach from a safer position as well as blocking attacks and Claws by very possibly dropping the enemy a round sooner.
Even in the (unlikely) ideal situation for Bite - I'm below 50% at the start of the fight and my hands are full - I'd go with Tail. You can play more defensively and drop your enemies quicker to boot.
I'm not sure it is as weak as you think. It's a d8 weapon you can gain at (almost) any time, which doesn't use your hands. You could use a shield and grapple an enemy, or grapple 2 enemies, while still having your bite. The healing effect is small, I'll grant you, but it's not far off half a healing potion, for free every round you are under half HP (and hit, of course).
I think it looks so weak because you are comparing it to 2 much stronger options: Claws will inflict more damage, and tail gives both reach and a defensive reaction. It's the weakest (or, at least, the most situational) of the three. If you know in advance that you are going to need it, though, it could be a life saver.
If I was the DM, I would consider allowing a change to Bite when you drop below 50% (maybe bonus action)... I'd have to evaluate how that affected play, and it would remove/dilute a strategic choice which the Barb would need to make.
Scatterbraint made a good point about comparing it to the other options, but in addition a 1d8 bite takes the place of a weapon attack you otherwise would have made, e.g. (at minimum) another 1d8 weapon, or a 1d10, 1d12, or 2d6 weapon, some of which have reach.
I'm not sure it is as weak as you think. It's a d8 weapon you can gain at (almost) any time, which doesn't use your hands. You could use a shield and grapple an enemy, or grapple 2 enemies, while still having your bite. The healing effect is small, I'll grant you, but it's not far off half a healing potion, for free every round you are under half HP (and hit, of course).
I think it looks so weak because you are comparing it to 2 much stronger options: Claws will inflict more damage, and tail gives both reach and a defensive reaction. It's the weakest (or, at least, the most situational) of the three. If you know in advance that you are going to need it, though, it could be a life saver.
If I was the DM, I would consider allowing a change to Bite when you drop below 50% (maybe bonus action)... I'd have to evaluate how that affected play, and it would remove/dilute a strategic choice which the Barb would need to make.
These are all good points.
I don't know if its been said anywhere else, but I think I would like to see:
Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you may use a bonus action toregain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Constitution Modifier + Barbarian Levelproficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.
*I'd have to tinker with the idea of whether it requires a bonus action or if it just does it once per turn... that would be fine tuning. The main point is to get it in line with other similar subclass features like Fiend Warlock / Long Death Monk by converting it to Temp HP...
This is kind of like Fiend Warlock, but Fiend Warlock or Way of the Long Death Monk (see below). This would be on demand, but require a Bonus Action and is limited to when you are raging. This means you'd have to wait until the second round of combat (BA first round is used to rage).
I like the UA where you rewarded for investing in Constitution over strength... rather than it switching to your Proficiency Bonus. Yes, this allows you to invest more in strength while making it "viable..." but it feels diluted with the 50% requirement. I, personally, liked knowing that if I wanted to maximize bite, I would be sacrificing offensive strength for being tougher to kill. PB scales slower... outpaces levels 17-19, then Primal champion at 20 would allow Con to surpass PB. But that's not really the point, I just wanted there to be a payoff to having a better bite for investing in Constitution. "Technically" there is since Constitution will increase your HP thereby increasing the available pool of health for the range of "below 50%"...
I was disappointed with the Bite changes, but overall I think its a great subclass.
Question:
*I do have a question though... the way Bite is written currently... like Long Death Monks level 3 feature "Touch of Death"... or Fiend Warlock's "Dark One's Blessing" feature... could someone carry around a bunch of CR 0 creatures and just use the Bite Attack at low HP to go from 1% to 50% hp? Yes you'd have to keep them fed and care for them...
The example my player came up with for his monk was carried around a bunch of worms in dirt and he would have to make survival checks to see how many worms he could find if the environment permitted it if he ran out... and he'd have to protect/care/feed them probably (animal handling)... that's at least how I would rule it. If you required a listed CR0 creature I guess it would be a Rat. Is this permitted?
Just for reference, here is the Touch of Death feature:
Touch of Death
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your study of death allows you to extract vitality from another creature as it nears its demise. When you reduce a creature within 5 feet of you to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier + your monk level (minimum of 1 temporary hit point).
Warlocks similar fiend feature is:
Dark One’s Blessing
Starting at 1st level, when you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + your warlock level (minimum of 1).
I think its interesting to note that the Warlocks requires the creature be "hostile"... but that's easily circumvented with the spell Friends which makes the creature hostile. Both the Monk and Warlock feature are Temp HP which prevents this being done all at once, but it can be done an unlimited number of times. Path of the Beast's Bite, though, gives actual HP back.
So if you had a cage of Rats in them, you rage at 1% HP, can you then play that out to get up to 50% hp? (Yes the rat can do one damage if it manages to hit, Ideally you'd only attack once per turn to try to get more than one hit per rat to get more hp..." *Actually after thinking about it... you are raging and resistant... 1/2 of 1 damage is .5, a fraction... which PHB says you round down... so while raging the rats just tickle you :P)
If this is permitted... then Bite is quite good although it burns your rage. Thematically I think its hilarious to have a 1% HP Barbrian scream "Feast!!!", rage, then spend a minute mawing apart a ton of rats (or other CR0 creature) in a rage.
Maybe this is why they limited it to 50% HP but kept it actual HP instead of temp HP like the other subclasses. Just curious, thank you.
Yes, if you do something exceptionally cheesy then the bite has a use. Please no bag of rats. I don't even think healing 50% is worth a rage if you were allowed to use such a ridiculous exploit. That's one less rage you can use in combat, which will lead to you being less effective, dealing less damage and taking more. So much for that healing.
In combat the tail is the better defensive tool. In combat the claw is the better offensive tool. The bite has potential because extra HP means more on a barbarian with resistance than any other class, but the 50% gating makes its niche even more niche.
I also think its weird from a design standpoint that two features have extra benefits that can be used whenever, but the bite has its special benefit gated.
The only weird interaction is that you can use a shield with it I guess? So you could have two weapons out and still bite or a weapon and a shield. So you could grapple two enemies and bite them but thats the same with the tail which is just better with the reaction.
Even then its bad....its seemingly there mostly for flavor. You are much better off just killing something faster with the claws.
Just what we don't need to bring back to this edition, the bag of rats exploit.
I agree. Which is why I like the way they have structured the mechanic with other subclasses by making it Temporary HP so it can't stack... and its the Class Ability Modifier + Class Level
The only weird interaction is that you can use a shield with it I guess? So you could have two weapons out and still bite or a weapon and a shield. So you could grapple two enemies and bite them but thats the same with the tail which is just better with the reaction.
Even then its bad....its seemingly there mostly for flavor. You are much better off just killing something faster with the claws.
Breaking it down in simple terms, your 1d8 bite attack can always replace a regular weapon attack. But the healing effect can only happen once per turn. Damage wise it gives you nothing, and likely does less damage than you otherwise would have done. The healing mechanic is bad, and can only be used if you're below half your health. And it stops working once you're back up to half.
Changing it to grant temp HP equal to your level plus an ability modifier every round just for landing an attack would shift the pendulum fully in the other direction and make it an absurdly overpowered ability. Especially on top of the Barbarian's damage resistances while raging.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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There's been a lot of threads about Path of the Beast because there's a lot to talk about. But I want to focus on what I think is a huge miss, in what I think is an (overall) great new subclass. BITE. I can't help but conclude two things on this option, and I'm wondering if any of you disagree.
1. It is Very circumstantial. You must choose between Bite, Claws, or Tail at the time you rage. The Bite ONLY has the healing affect if you're below 50% on hit points. You must choose your form at the time you go into rage. If you never drop below half hit points during the combat encounter (which is usually the case), this beast form has done absolutely nothing useful. In a rare situation where going into next combat encounter already badly battered (with no access to healing), then it can at least be used. But.... #2
2. It is mechanically bad. Levels 1-4 you regain 2 hit points per round (assuming you hit every round), and how much damage are you receiving per round on average? Levels 5-8 it goes up to 3 hit points of healing, but enemies have also scaled more so, and the trend continues as you gain levels. At level 16, how meaningful is 4 hit points of healing per round? And this isn't even all. Imagine your maximum hit points is 50 and you're down to 20. A couple of rounds rounds later you hit both times and luckily you did not take damage. Now you have 25, and your bit healing stops until you take damage again.
Proposed Solution: If your hit points are at or below 50% of the maximum, you can grow fangs as a reaction, which you can use to bit as a melee attack. It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus. This ability lasts until your rage ends. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.
Why the limited use? Because as written it would allow you to keep your claws or tail, while still having the bite option on each of your turns. It also does not stop working if your hit points rise above 50%.
First, I agree with all of your points. The bite is so mechanically weak as to be questionably useful even when its niche arises.
I was thinking about a fix too the other day. Mine was to drop the whole THP thing entirely. I think it leads to bad design constraints. I also just don't need the "eating" flavor; doesn't do anything for me. Instead I would like to have a "roar" ability that does an AOE intimidate/debuff. The roar would happen upon activating rage, and would be usable again each turn as a bonus action. No idea how to balance that, but that's the concept. I liked the idea of having each natural weapon have its own special action economy. Bite - bonus action roar, Claw - no action attack, Tail - reaction AC boost.
I like your fix mechanically, but changing it from another form to something you always gets upsets my sensibilities. Just a personal preference thing.
I took a hard look at the Leonin. This is just a race feature.
Daunting Roar. As a bonus action, you can let out an especially menacing roar. Creatures of your choice within 10 feet of you that can hear you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you until the end of your next turn. The DC of the save equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier. Once you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
I agree that Bite's healing feels like too little too late on the occasions that it comes up at all. I'd start with removing the under 50% clause. Just let it heal all the time. If it still felt like a non-option after playtesting that a bit, I might remove the 'once on your turn' so you could potentially heal with both bites.
One other angle I might approach it with is to make it a d4 or d6 bonus action attack. I think this would have been a lot more appropriate, but unfortunately it already exists as racial features for longtooth shifters and lizardmen (without the healing).
For an 'always on' solution, I'd probably remove the bite completely and just say when a ranging beast drops below 50%, if they land an attack on their turn they are invigorated and gain [prof] temp hp.
And as for the roar, it would be pretty tough to balance. It's hard to think of a buff significant enough to be worthwhile but weak enough to be appropriate for a bonus action every round. 5e has kind of done away with incremental debuffs that might work in a situation like that. Deafened is too weak/situational, but Frightened is too strong. Prone or small AOE thunder damage might be ok with a save DC.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Leonin! Awesome find SeanJP. I completely forgot about those cat people. Not a huge fan of leonin/tabaxi so it just fell off my radar.
What if the roar gave disadvantage on attacks? There's plenty of design space with save DCs, range, number of targets and number of attacks effected. Maybe the roar forces a concentration check from spellcasters as well. I think that leaves a lot of nobs to turn for balance issues while providing a debuff you want to activate turn after turn.
And it would synergize with reckless attacks. (maybe too much, that would be a big sticking point for balance issues)
The way I see it, Bite makes your mouth a 1d12 weapon, but instead of hurting the enemy for an average of 6,5 hit points, it hurts the enemy for 4,5 and heals you for 2. Regardless, the relative change in hit points between you and the enemy is the same. At level 5 and above Bite becomes slightly stronger than a 1d12 weapon, though only for the first hit on your turn. At Tier 4 it's akin to a 1d20 weapon when it comes to expected relative hit point change.
Now, I concede that Bite is indeed very situational. It's only ever strong when you're at less than half your hit points, but if you're frequently getting into combat with less than half your hit points remaining, you're probably not long for this world.
Bite is not a good option, but it starts looking slightly better when seen from the perspective of the narrow niche it works for. It's fortunate that the other two options are much stronger.
it does. That's part of the frightened condition.
There's an indirect defensive aspect to just dealing more damage. The enemies die quicker, which is less rounds they have to cause damage. Also, even if you look at it from that perspective, doing d10 damage per attack as a special feature is itself pretty bad. The Barbarian can wield d10, d12, and 2d6 weapons all day long with just regular attacks, some of them with reach.
The claws are lovely. 2d6 + 2(ability score + rage) as a single attack.
SeanJP, I mean for the roar to cause disadvantage on attacks without being tied to the frightened condition. Something like:
Roar: everyone within 10' has to make a save or have disadvantage on their next attack against you. Spellcasters in the area have to make a concentration save to maintain concentration on any spell they are casting.
Basic function, not sure what the numbers should be for balance.
I'd just change the bite effect to once per round when you damage an enemy with your bite, you gain temporary HP equal to your proficiency modifier.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm not sure it is as weak as you think. It's a d8 weapon you can gain at (almost) any time, which doesn't use your hands. You could use a shield and grapple an enemy, or grapple 2 enemies, while still having your bite. The healing effect is small, I'll grant you, but it's not far off half a healing potion, for free every round you are under half HP (and hit, of course).
I think it looks so weak because you are comparing it to 2 much stronger options: Claws will inflict more damage, and tail gives both reach and a defensive reaction. It's the weakest (or, at least, the most situational) of the three. If you know in advance that you are going to need it, though, it could be a life saver.
If I was the DM, I would consider allowing a change to Bite when you drop below 50% (maybe bonus action)... I'd have to evaluate how that affected play, and it would remove/dilute a strategic choice which the Barb would need to make.
See my complaint is that this is already the case. We're comparing Bite to Tail and Claws because you choose between those three. If the Bite is never a better choice, then it's not really a choice at all. I don't want it to be super strong, just competitive with the alternatives.
While Bite does heal a bit, I'd argue that the other two options are great at preventing at least that much damage in the first place - Tail by attacking with reach from a safer position as well as blocking attacks and Claws by very possibly dropping the enemy a round sooner.
Even in the (unlikely) ideal situation for Bite - I'm below 50% at the start of the fight and my hands are full - I'd go with Tail. You can play more defensively and drop your enemies quicker to boot.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Scatterbraint made a good point about comparing it to the other options, but in addition a 1d8 bite takes the place of a weapon attack you otherwise would have made, e.g. (at minimum) another 1d8 weapon, or a 1d10, 1d12, or 2d6 weapon, some of which have reach.
These are all good points.
I don't know if its been said anywhere else, but I think I would like to see:
Bite. Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit.
Once on each of your turnswhen you damage a creature with this bite, you may use a bonus action toregain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Constitution Modifier + Barbarian Levelproficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.*I'd have to tinker with the idea of whether it requires a bonus action or if it just does it once per turn... that would be fine tuning. The main point is to get it in line with other similar subclass features like Fiend Warlock / Long Death Monk by converting it to Temp HP...
This is kind of like Fiend Warlock, but Fiend Warlock or Way of the Long Death Monk (see below). This would be on demand, but require a Bonus Action and is limited to when you are raging. This means you'd have to wait until the second round of combat (BA first round is used to rage).
I like the UA where you rewarded for investing in Constitution over strength... rather than it switching to your Proficiency Bonus. Yes, this allows you to invest more in strength while making it "viable..." but it feels diluted with the 50% requirement. I, personally, liked knowing that if I wanted to maximize bite, I would be sacrificing offensive strength for being tougher to kill. PB scales slower... outpaces levels 17-19, then Primal champion at 20 would allow Con to surpass PB. But that's not really the point, I just wanted there to be a payoff to having a better bite for investing in Constitution. "Technically" there is since Constitution will increase your HP thereby increasing the available pool of health for the range of "below 50%"...
I was disappointed with the Bite changes, but overall I think its a great subclass.
Question:
*I do have a question though... the way Bite is written currently... like Long Death Monks level 3 feature "Touch of Death"... or Fiend Warlock's "Dark One's Blessing" feature... could someone carry around a bunch of CR 0 creatures and just use the Bite Attack at low HP to go from 1% to 50% hp? Yes you'd have to keep them fed and care for them...
The example my player came up with for his monk was carried around a bunch of worms in dirt and he would have to make survival checks to see how many worms he could find if the environment permitted it if he ran out... and he'd have to protect/care/feed them probably (animal handling)... that's at least how I would rule it. If you required a listed CR0 creature I guess it would be a Rat. Is this permitted?
Just for reference, here is the Touch of Death feature:
Touch of Death
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your study of death allows you to extract vitality from another creature as it nears its demise. When you reduce a creature within 5 feet of you to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier + your monk level (minimum of 1 temporary hit point).
Warlocks similar fiend feature is:
Dark One’s Blessing
Starting at 1st level, when you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + your warlock level (minimum of 1).
I think its interesting to note that the Warlocks requires the creature be "hostile"... but that's easily circumvented with the spell Friends which makes the creature hostile. Both the Monk and Warlock feature are Temp HP which prevents this being done all at once, but it can be done an unlimited number of times. Path of the Beast's Bite, though, gives actual HP back.
So if you had a cage of Rats in them, you rage at 1% HP, can you then play that out to get up to 50% hp? (
Yes the rat can do one damage if it manages to hit, Ideally you'd only attack once per turn to try to get more than one hit per rat to get more hp..." *Actually after thinking about it... you are raging and resistant... 1/2 of 1 damage is .5, a fraction... which PHB says you round down... so while raging the rats just tickle you :P)If this is permitted... then Bite is quite good although it burns your rage. Thematically I think its hilarious to have a 1% HP Barbrian scream "Feast!!!", rage, then spend a minute mawing apart a ton of rats (or other CR0 creature) in a rage.
Maybe this is why they limited it to 50% HP but kept it actual HP instead of temp HP like the other subclasses. Just curious, thank you.
Just what we don't need to bring back to this edition, the bag of rats exploit.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yes, if you do something exceptionally cheesy then the bite has a use. Please no bag of rats. I don't even think healing 50% is worth a rage if you were allowed to use such a ridiculous exploit. That's one less rage you can use in combat, which will lead to you being less effective, dealing less damage and taking more. So much for that healing.
In combat the tail is the better defensive tool. In combat the claw is the better offensive tool. The bite has potential because extra HP means more on a barbarian with resistance than any other class, but the 50% gating makes its niche even more niche.
I also think its weird from a design standpoint that two features have extra benefits that can be used whenever, but the bite has its special benefit gated.
The only weird interaction is that you can use a shield with it I guess? So you could have two weapons out and still bite or a weapon and a shield. So you could grapple two enemies and bite them but thats the same with the tail which is just better with the reaction.
Even then its bad....its seemingly there mostly for flavor. You are much better off just killing something faster with the claws.
I agree. Which is why I like the way they have structured the mechanic with other subclasses by making it Temporary HP so it can't stack... and its the Class Ability Modifier + Class Level
Breaking it down in simple terms, your 1d8 bite attack can always replace a regular weapon attack. But the healing effect can only happen once per turn. Damage wise it gives you nothing, and likely does less damage than you otherwise would have done. The healing mechanic is bad, and can only be used if you're below half your health. And it stops working once you're back up to half.
Changing it to grant temp HP equal to your level plus an ability modifier every round just for landing an attack would shift the pendulum fully in the other direction and make it an absurdly overpowered ability. Especially on top of the Barbarian's damage resistances while raging.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.