So I finally got another to looking thought this subclass and overall I am kind of disappointed. So first off its level 3 abilities are great, the extra attack X times a long rest is good, more so if your picked up two weapon fighting witch at level 3 will let you make 3 attacks or 4 if you action surge, it's great, balanced with the war priest feature.
Now moving on to the actually echo it is extremely vulnerable with only 1 hp and 14+proficiency ac, it can make saving throws but unless it's a cantrip it will die regardless of weather it makes the save or not, so any area of effect ability will make it poof, on the bright side it's only a bonus action to get it back, on the downside of your using two weapon fighting that is one less attack.
Now looking at its ability above level 3, the level 7 feature is kind of useless as making a glowing copy of yourself to scout kind of defies the purpose of scouting because it will let everyone know your coming.
the level 10 features is kind of useful but you have to blow your reaction to stop one attack at the cost of your echo.
The level 14 one is still meh because your echo has to die and only works if you dont have temp hp already so even if you only have 1 temp hp it won't work
And lastly the level 18 features is in my personal opinion, is totally useless. What it does is let you make a second echo when you use your feature to summon a echo but functionality it works the same as I'd you only had one. Yes you can use the feature for one extra location but typically your going to focus on one or two creatures at a time so it would be no different than having one at a time so overall the big level 18 feature does pretty much nothing.
So looking at the features the level 3 one is great but...after that the features you get for it are either not great, useless or another feature does it better.
Overall I think it will be good for short level 1-5 ish campaigns, but when comparing ot to other subclasses like battle master it falls short.
* I typed this on my phone so there is a typo in the title due to my autocorrect being a butt
I was having my first read of echo knight and I think it's really powerful. I'll list some points.
-sure it's only got 1 HP, but it only takes a bonus action to create it again and move it into position. Doesn't even really matters if it dies every round.
-as for scouting it's pretty powerful as well. Wizards use familiars to scout and set off traps, but then it would take an hour to recast. The echo can blow it's self up left, right and centre and just recreate it.
-at level 7. Things like jails or walls of force won't be any problems for you. Not as good as Misty Step, but you can do it unlimited times. Also you can teleport 1000 feet and will only cost you 15 feet movement.
I'm thinking there are lots of other combinations you can to. Such as a Kobold Echo Knight where both you and the echo has advantage due to pact tactic. Not sure if the Echo will have light sensitivity.
I'm thinking there are lots of other combinations you can to. Such as a Kobold Echo Knight where both you and the echo has advantage due to pact tactic. Not sure if the Echo will have light sensitivity.
Apparently the Echo doesn't count as an ally (or even as a creature) so it doesn't work with Pack Tactics. It's definitely something that should have been stated in the book but I suppose if your DM allows it anyway, then go for it.
The only good thing is that a lot of spells cannot affect your Echo because it's not a creature or object. So it can't give advantage but at least it's immune to all sorts of spells.
-at level 7. Things like jails or walls of force won't be any problems for you. Not as good as Misty Step, but you can do it unlimited times. Also you can teleport 1000 feet and will only cost you 15 feet movement.
This in fact does not work, the echo is solid like you, also you can't summon it 1000 feet away, you can summon it 15 feet away, then you have to move it, you remove it 30 feet a round. So if your jail and you summon a glowing copy of yourself and try to run the guards run it down and kill it then slap then show you who's boss. So this little plan does not work, more so for scouting as the echo CAN'T MAKE SKILL CHECKS so cant do stealth or anything and can only move 30 feet every 6 seconds so your rogue can cover more ground faster and not stick out like a glowing sore thumb. At the end of the day its just one extra attack.
I suspect that this subclass will become a fairly popular dip. The mobility mixed in with a bit of nova potential would be very welcome for rogues, rangers and maybe hexblades.
-at level 7. Things like jails or walls of force won't be any problems for you. Not as good as Misty Step, but you can do it unlimited times. Also you can teleport 1000 feet and will only cost you 15 feet movement.
This in fact does not work, the echo is solid like you, also you can't summon it 1000 feet away, you can summon it 15 feet away, then you have to move it, you remove it 30 feet a round. So if your jail and you summon a glowing copy of yourself and try to run the guards run it down and kill it then slap then show you who's boss. So this little plan does not work, more so for scouting as the echo CAN'T MAKE SKILL CHECKS so cant do stealth or anything and can only move 30 feet every 6 seconds so your rogue can cover more ground faster and not stick out like a glowing sore thumb. At the end of the day its just one extra attack.
"In this instance (since it is an echo of the creator), I might allow ability checks based on the echo knight’s. I defer to Jeremy Crawford for official rulings. ;)" - Matt Mercer
Skill checks via the echo ARE intended.
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I don't think it will be a super big dipping class for many veteran players, superiority dice is far more powerful for a 3 level dip due to the fact you can just knock someone prone and get advantage or knock a weapon put of there hands. Hexblades I rarely see dip into fighter for more than 2 levels, the only thing they would want is the fighting style (archery or defense) and action surge, also more rangers probably wont take the 3 level dip because most of them are already dealing extra damage on a hit and can take extra attacks right away.
ALSO the reason you wont see people dipping to get this is that it requires 3 levels into fighter when you can pretty much the same ability with 1 level in cleric war priest. I mean you could take a 1 level dip in war priest and then a 3 level dip for echo knight but that requires 4 levels, in a low level one shot that means you dont have access to extra attack, and in higher level games it means you miss out on all of your main classes level 16-20 stuff witch normally outweighs the single extra attack
I think this class will be popular for a bit and potentially as dips long term. It's got flavor, and the mobility features are perfect for dungeon crawls and some fights. I don't think it's the best subclass, but is has good fun potential.
From everything I can see, two weapon fighting is not a good choice for echo knight since it doesn't get anything for your bonus action attacks and you have to choose between summoning the paper thin echo each turn or attacking again. Instead, if you go with great weapon fighting or dueling you have better options.
Use your bonus action to summon echo and get an extra 15 ft of reach on your attacks by summoning the echo where you can't reach yet. Great for getting further into the back lines of enemies and being able to get an attack of opportunity on a squishy who tries to move away or avoiding opportunity attacks yourself by staying further back.
It adds to exploration with echo avatar since it's a gray translucent image of yourself (it doesn't say glowing anywhere) and has cool flavor, so I could see it being used a bit by people who like to be more of a skirmisher.
From everything I can see, two weapon fighting is not a good choice for echo knight since it doesn't get anything for your bonus action attacks and you have to choose between summoning the paper thin echo each turn or attacking again. Instead, if you go with great weapon fighting or dueling you have better options.
Use your bonus action to summon echo and get an extra 15 ft of reach on your attacks by summoning the echo where you can't reach yet. Great for getting further into the back lines of enemies and being able to get an attack of opportunity on a squishy who tries to move away or avoiding opportunity attacks yourself by staying further back.
It adds to exploration with echo avatar since it's a gray translucent image of yourself (it doesn't say glowing anywhere) and has cool flavor, so I could see it being used a bit by people who like to be more of a skirmisher.
Ot is actually the best with two weapon fighting, the clone last indefinitely, so you can have it ready before combat, also it may be paper thin but its biggest weakness is AOE spells, its AC ok but enemies are more likely to focus on the fighter.
Also there are illustrations of the echo and it looks pretty solid to me, and no matter how you spin it scouting is best left to rogues and rangers, the echo moves max 30 feet every 6 seconds, a ranger can go 60 feet every 6 seconds and a rogue can book ot at 90 feet every 6 seconds (with a basic move speed of 30) and can move far more quietly because even IF you can make skill checks if your a heavy armor str fighter your not going to be sneaky UNLESS your a DeX fighter in witch case your either using two weapon fighting or ranged weapons (a hand crossbow with xbow expert would work well with this but I am unsure of that would work because echos dont carry ammo on them and there are no rules for that mentioned)
You can have it indefinitely until something hits it, sure, but you are not taking advantage of the fact that it can be summoned as many times as you want so you can keep repositioning it with your bonus action. This allows for mobility and control over the battlefield.
Movement speed and stealth are not the only factors for scouting. You can summon the echo somewhere you couldn't reach easily and just look around for a while with 0 risk to the player. Sure a rogue might be faster, but if they get caught they are all alone and need to survive where as the echo knight knows the information with no personal risk and no need to catch up to the group to relay what they saw.
You can have it indefinitely until something hits it, sure, but you are not taking advantage of the fact that it can be summoned as many times as you want so you can keep repositioning it with your bonus action. This allows for mobility and control over the battlefield.
Movement speed and stealth are not the only factors for scouting. You can summon the echo somewhere you couldn't reach easily and just look around for a while with 0 risk to the player. Sure a rogue might be faster, but if they get caught they are all alone and need to survive where as the echo knight knows the information with no personal risk and no need to catch up to the group to relay what they saw.
"You can use a bonus action to magically manifest a echo of yourself in an unoccupied space you can see within 15 feet of you" so if you have trouble getting to that area its probably not worth the effort of getting your echo there, if its difficult terrain your echo can only move 15 feet in it and the conditions for summoning it is that it must be within 15 feet of you in a unoccupied space you can see, this greatly restricts where you can summon it and how it can move, difficult terrain shuts down the whole feature, also the feature specifies that is is MAGICAL, meaning other magic stuff or anti magic stuff can mess with it, if you get into a fight with a beholder and it just spins around in a circle because it can POOF there goes all your echos or worse the beholder just keeps looking at you so you wont be able to summon any more, anti magic fields would also be able to stop you from using this feature, and without that basic level 3 feature your now playing a basic fighter with no subclass.
You can have it indefinitely until something hits it, sure, but you are not taking advantage of the fact that it can be summoned as many times as you want so you can keep repositioning it with your bonus action. This allows for mobility and control over the battlefield.
Movement speed and stealth are not the only factors for scouting. You can summon the echo somewhere you couldn't reach easily and just look around for a while with 0 risk to the player. Sure a rogue might be faster, but if they get caught they are all alone and need to survive where as the echo knight knows the information with no personal risk and no need to catch up to the group to relay what they saw.
"You can use a bonus action to magically manifest a echo of yourself in an unoccupied space you can see within 15 feet of you" so if you have trouble getting to that area its probably not worth the effort of getting your echo there, if its difficult terrain your echo can only move 15 feet in it and the conditions for summoning it is that it must be within 15 feet of you in a unoccupied space you can see, this greatly restricts where you can summon it and how it can move, difficult terrain shuts down the whole feature, also the feature specifies that is is MAGICAL, meaning other magic stuff or anti magic stuff can mess with it, if you get into a fight with a beholder and it just spins around in a circle because it can POOF there goes all your echos or worse the beholder just keeps looking at you so you wont be able to summon any more, anti magic fields would also be able to stop you from using this feature, and without that basic level 3 feature your now playing a basic fighter with no subclass.
A beholder trying to lock down a fighter summoning a weak Echo is a beholder that is not locking down the Sorcerer from blasting it, or keeping the Cleric from buffing the party, or the Wizard from doing the hundreds of crazy things a Wizard can do. So either the beholder just spends its time staring at the Fighter which is a benefit to the actually powerful spell casters, or it just temporarily dispels an Echo by glancing at it which doesn't really do much to affect the Fighter because they'd just summon it back again.
So I think you are misunderstanding the 7th level ability. I am going to copy and paste a couple of the lines here:
"As a bonus action, you can teleport, magically swapping places with your echo at a cost of 15 feet of your movement, regardless of the distance between the two of you." -3rd lvl ability
"While your echo is being used in this way, it can be up to 1,000 feet away from you without being destroyed" -7th lvl ability
So the Echo normally has a 30ft limit to how far it can be away at the end of your turn, but the 7th level ability specifies it can be used in this way (referring to you using your action to see and hear through the echo) up to 1000 feet away. and the 3rd level ability saying you can swap places specifically says at the end that it doesnt matter how far away the echo is from you when you use the tp ability. So at 7th level you can scout ahead up to 1000 feet, and then swap places with the echo, as long as you are looking through the echo.
A couple of other things on the Echo’s movements that need clarification:
if you can “command the echo up to 30 feet in ANY (emphasis mine) direction, does this include vertically? It seems clear you can summon the echo to a point above or below within 15 feet (frex a ledge or balcony), but this implies flight or a monk-like ability to wall walk. Seems really good, maybe too good; given that the echo is a product of dunamancy ( which explicitly includes gravity manipulation), it makes a certain amount of sense.
The 30ft leash might have some give. The wording is odd, but does specify the end of your turn as when the echo breaks. Am I right in thinking the echo can move beyond 30ft within the round and you can then close the distance on the turn so the echo doesn’t pop? If it can do this, then the Combat teleport range is greatly improved at the cost of the echo.
So think you have to use your best judgement on the movement there. Similar to shapewater spell that says you can move water 5 feet in any direction. theres nothing saying you can hold the echo in the air or that it doesnt obey the law of gravity. I would rule that you move the echo 30 feet up, and then it falls back down by the end of the round. But that doesnt answer the question of flight speed. Like I have no clue what happens if you have a flight speed. Does the echo copy your ability to move through the air? logically, yes, but the mechanics offer nothing to back that.
I heard one person suggest that the echo is a still image. that would make sense as to why it wouldnt be able to hold itself in the air, even if it had wings. like as soon as you stop mentally commanding the echo to move upwards, it goes still and just drops.
Until an official ruling comes out, i would say its dms call
So think you have to use your best judgement on the movement there. Similar to shapewater spell that says you can move water 5 feet in any direction. theres nothing saying you can hold the echo in the air or that it doesnt obey the law of gravity. I would rule that you move the echo 30 feet up, and then it falls back down by the end of the round. But that doesnt answer the question of flight speed. Like I have no clue what happens if you have a flight speed. Does the echo copy your ability to move through the air? logically, yes, but the mechanics offer nothing to back that.
I heard one person suggest that the echo is a still image. that would make sense as to why it wouldnt be able to hold itself in the air, even if it had wings. like as soon as you stop mentally commanding the echo to move upwards, it goes still and just drops.
Until an official ruling comes out, i would say its dms call
If it's an image, how does it have weight, and fall down? Shouldn't it just hover there.
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Yeah, the Echo RAW can move vertically, and there's nothing that says they take fall damage, or fall at all, so I'm not sure how to rule this.
That would be a poor interpretation so you can try to get a advantage but you are wrong, it doesn't say "the echo speed is 30 feet of flight." It is treated as a creature and for that matter a copy of you, last I just nost humanoids dont have a fly speed. Alot of things say "in any direction" guess by that logic players can just move vertically too, oh wait they can't.
Yeah, the Echo RAW can move vertically, and there's nothing that says they take fall damage, or fall at all, so I'm not sure how to rule this.
That would be a poor interpretation so you can try to get a advantage but you are wrong, it doesn't say "the echo speed is 30 feet of flight." It is treated as a creature and for that matter a copy of you, last I just nost humanoids dont have a fly speed. Alot of things say "in any direction" guess by that logic players can just move vertically too, oh wait they can't.
Where in the rules does it say they can't move vertically, or are limited to the movement types that the player is?
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So I finally got another to looking thought this subclass and overall I am kind of disappointed. So first off its level 3 abilities are great, the extra attack X times a long rest is good, more so if your picked up two weapon fighting witch at level 3 will let you make 3 attacks or 4 if you action surge, it's great, balanced with the war priest feature.
Now moving on to the actually echo it is extremely vulnerable with only 1 hp and 14+proficiency ac, it can make saving throws but unless it's a cantrip it will die regardless of weather it makes the save or not, so any area of effect ability will make it poof, on the bright side it's only a bonus action to get it back, on the downside of your using two weapon fighting that is one less attack.
Now looking at its ability above level 3, the level 7 feature is kind of useless as making a glowing copy of yourself to scout kind of defies the purpose of scouting because it will let everyone know your coming.
the level 10 features is kind of useful but you have to blow your reaction to stop one attack at the cost of your echo.
The level 14 one is still meh because your echo has to die and only works if you dont have temp hp already so even if you only have 1 temp hp it won't work
And lastly the level 18 features is in my personal opinion, is totally useless. What it does is let you make a second echo when you use your feature to summon a echo but functionality it works the same as I'd you only had one. Yes you can use the feature for one extra location but typically your going to focus on one or two creatures at a time so it would be no different than having one at a time so overall the big level 18 feature does pretty much nothing.
So looking at the features the level 3 one is great but...after that the features you get for it are either not great, useless or another feature does it better.
Overall I think it will be good for short level 1-5 ish campaigns, but when comparing ot to other subclasses like battle master it falls short.
* I typed this on my phone so there is a typo in the title due to my autocorrect being a butt
I was having my first read of echo knight and I think it's really powerful. I'll list some points.
-sure it's only got 1 HP, but it only takes a bonus action to create it again and move it into position. Doesn't even really matters if it dies every round.
-as for scouting it's pretty powerful as well. Wizards use familiars to scout and set off traps, but then it would take an hour to recast. The echo can blow it's self up left, right and centre and just recreate it.
-at level 7. Things like jails or walls of force won't be any problems for you. Not as good as Misty Step, but you can do it unlimited times. Also you can teleport 1000 feet and will only cost you 15 feet movement.
I'm thinking there are lots of other combinations you can to. Such as a Kobold Echo Knight where both you and the echo has advantage due to pact tactic. Not sure if the Echo will have light sensitivity.
Apparently the Echo doesn't count as an ally (or even as a creature) so it doesn't work with Pack Tactics. It's definitely something that should have been stated in the book but I suppose if your DM allows it anyway, then go for it.
https://twitter.com/matthewmercer/status/1240063561629483008?s=19
The only good thing is that a lot of spells cannot affect your Echo because it's not a creature or object. So it can't give advantage but at least it's immune to all sorts of spells.
This in fact does not work, the echo is solid like you, also you can't summon it 1000 feet away, you can summon it 15 feet away, then you have to move it, you remove it 30 feet a round. So if your jail and you summon a glowing copy of yourself and try to run the guards run it down and kill it then slap then show you who's boss. So this little plan does not work, more so for scouting as the echo CAN'T MAKE SKILL CHECKS so cant do stealth or anything and can only move 30 feet every 6 seconds so your rogue can cover more ground faster and not stick out like a glowing sore thumb. At the end of the day its just one extra attack.
I suspect that this subclass will become a fairly popular dip. The mobility mixed in with a bit of nova potential would be very welcome for rogues, rangers and maybe hexblades.
"In this instance (since it is an echo of the creator), I might allow ability checks based on the echo knight’s. I defer to Jeremy Crawford for official rulings. ;)" - Matt Mercer
Skill checks via the echo ARE intended.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I don't think it will be a super big dipping class for many veteran players, superiority dice is far more powerful for a 3 level dip due to the fact you can just knock someone prone and get advantage or knock a weapon put of there hands. Hexblades I rarely see dip into fighter for more than 2 levels, the only thing they would want is the fighting style (archery or defense) and action surge, also more rangers probably wont take the 3 level dip because most of them are already dealing extra damage on a hit and can take extra attacks right away.
ALSO the reason you wont see people dipping to get this is that it requires 3 levels into fighter when you can pretty much the same ability with 1 level in cleric war priest. I mean you could take a 1 level dip in war priest and then a 3 level dip for echo knight but that requires 4 levels, in a low level one shot that means you dont have access to extra attack, and in higher level games it means you miss out on all of your main classes level 16-20 stuff witch normally outweighs the single extra attack
I think this class will be popular for a bit and potentially as dips long term. It's got flavor, and the mobility features are perfect for dungeon crawls and some fights. I don't think it's the best subclass, but is has good fun potential.
From everything I can see, two weapon fighting is not a good choice for echo knight since it doesn't get anything for your bonus action attacks and you have to choose between summoning the paper thin echo each turn or attacking again. Instead, if you go with great weapon fighting or dueling you have better options.
Use your bonus action to summon echo and get an extra 15 ft of reach on your attacks by summoning the echo where you can't reach yet. Great for getting further into the back lines of enemies and being able to get an attack of opportunity on a squishy who tries to move away or avoiding opportunity attacks yourself by staying further back.
It adds to exploration with echo avatar since it's a gray translucent image of yourself (it doesn't say glowing anywhere) and has cool flavor, so I could see it being used a bit by people who like to be more of a skirmisher.
Ot is actually the best with two weapon fighting, the clone last indefinitely, so you can have it ready before combat, also it may be paper thin but its biggest weakness is AOE spells, its AC ok but enemies are more likely to focus on the fighter.
Also there are illustrations of the echo and it looks pretty solid to me, and no matter how you spin it scouting is best left to rogues and rangers, the echo moves max 30 feet every 6 seconds, a ranger can go 60 feet every 6 seconds and a rogue can book ot at 90 feet every 6 seconds (with a basic move speed of 30) and can move far more quietly because even IF you can make skill checks if your a heavy armor str fighter your not going to be sneaky UNLESS your a DeX fighter in witch case your either using two weapon fighting or ranged weapons (a hand crossbow with xbow expert would work well with this but I am unsure of that would work because echos dont carry ammo on them and there are no rules for that mentioned)
You can have it indefinitely until something hits it, sure, but you are not taking advantage of the fact that it can be summoned as many times as you want so you can keep repositioning it with your bonus action. This allows for mobility and control over the battlefield.
Movement speed and stealth are not the only factors for scouting. You can summon the echo somewhere you couldn't reach easily and just look around for a while with 0 risk to the player. Sure a rogue might be faster, but if they get caught they are all alone and need to survive where as the echo knight knows the information with no personal risk and no need to catch up to the group to relay what they saw.
"You can use a bonus action to magically manifest a echo of yourself in an unoccupied space you can see within 15 feet of you"
so if you have trouble getting to that area its probably not worth the effort of getting your echo there, if its difficult terrain your echo can only move 15 feet in it and the conditions for summoning it is that it must be within 15 feet of you in a unoccupied space you can see, this greatly restricts where you can summon it and how it can move, difficult terrain shuts down the whole feature, also the feature specifies that is is MAGICAL, meaning other magic stuff or anti magic stuff can mess with it, if you get into a fight with a beholder and it just spins around in a circle because it can POOF there goes all your echos or worse the beholder just keeps looking at you so you wont be able to summon any more, anti magic fields would also be able to stop you from using this feature, and without that basic level 3 feature your now playing a basic fighter with no subclass.
A beholder trying to lock down a fighter summoning a weak Echo is a beholder that is not locking down the Sorcerer from blasting it, or keeping the Cleric from buffing the party, or the Wizard from doing the hundreds of crazy things a Wizard can do. So either the beholder just spends its time staring at the Fighter which is a benefit to the actually powerful spell casters, or it just temporarily dispels an Echo by glancing at it which doesn't really do much to affect the Fighter because they'd just summon it back again.
So I think you are misunderstanding the 7th level ability. I am going to copy and paste a couple of the lines here:
"As a bonus action, you can teleport, magically swapping places with your echo at a cost of 15 feet of your movement, regardless of the distance between the two of you." -3rd lvl ability
"While your echo is being used in this way, it can be up to 1,000 feet away from you without being destroyed" -7th lvl ability
So the Echo normally has a 30ft limit to how far it can be away at the end of your turn, but the 7th level ability specifies it can be used in this way (referring to you using your action to see and hear through the echo) up to 1000 feet away. and the 3rd level ability saying you can swap places specifically says at the end that it doesnt matter how far away the echo is from you when you use the tp ability. So at 7th level you can scout ahead up to 1000 feet, and then swap places with the echo, as long as you are looking through the echo.
A couple of other things on the Echo’s movements that need clarification:
if you can “command the echo up to 30 feet in ANY (emphasis mine) direction, does this include vertically? It seems clear you can summon the echo to a point above or below within 15 feet (frex a ledge or balcony), but this implies flight or a monk-like ability to wall walk. Seems really good, maybe too good; given that the echo is a product of dunamancy ( which explicitly includes gravity manipulation), it makes a certain amount of sense.
The 30ft leash might have some give. The wording is odd, but does specify the end of your turn as when the echo breaks. Am I right in thinking the echo can move beyond 30ft within the round and you can then close the distance on the turn so the echo doesn’t pop? If it can do this, then the Combat teleport range is greatly improved at the cost of the echo.
Yeah, the Echo RAW can move vertically, and there's nothing that says they take fall damage, or fall at all, so I'm not sure how to rule this.
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So think you have to use your best judgement on the movement there. Similar to shapewater spell that says you can move water 5 feet in any direction. theres nothing saying you can hold the echo in the air or that it doesnt obey the law of gravity. I would rule that you move the echo 30 feet up, and then it falls back down by the end of the round. But that doesnt answer the question of flight speed. Like I have no clue what happens if you have a flight speed. Does the echo copy your ability to move through the air? logically, yes, but the mechanics offer nothing to back that.
I heard one person suggest that the echo is a still image. that would make sense as to why it wouldnt be able to hold itself in the air, even if it had wings. like as soon as you stop mentally commanding the echo to move upwards, it goes still and just drops.
Until an official ruling comes out, i would say its dms call
If it's an image, how does it have weight, and fall down? Shouldn't it just hover there.
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That would be a poor interpretation so you can try to get a advantage but you are wrong, it doesn't say "the echo speed is 30 feet of flight." It is treated as a creature and for that matter a copy of you, last I just nost humanoids dont have a fly speed. Alot of things say "in any direction" guess by that logic players can just move vertically too, oh wait they can't.
Where in the rules does it say they can't move vertically, or are limited to the movement types that the player is?
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