Thrown Weapon Style (TWS) finally gives some love to a previously unplayable style. +2 damage is the industry standard and being able to draw weapons as part of your attack action means your style is actually functional. This leaves acquiring magic weapons as your only obstacle.
Battle Master adds the quick toss maneuver for a bonus action attack with extra damage.
Fighting Initiate enables a second fighting style. This is where I really perk up. Dueling works with thrown weapon attacks, which combines with TWS for a tidy +4 damage to your thrown weapon attacks.
You also have the dart, which can take advantage of Archery Style + Sharpshooter. As crossbow expert can attest, marrying sharpshooter with a source of bonus action attacks (quick toss) is quite powerful. Thanks for bringing this version of the thrower to light Cheeky_Hamster.
How would you flesh out this build? Other maneuvers, feats, ASIs, secondary roles. What race? I want a feat at level one, but maybe something else has a lot to add. What's your answer to the magic weapon problem? Full BM or multiclass? Maybe you think this should be built off of a different class entirely. I want to hear about your weapon chucking maniac.
Building a list of options that solve the magic item problem. Most of these will involve a returning weapon in one way or another. It's simply the cleanest answer to an annoying problem.
1. Dip 2 levels in Artificer. This allows you to pick up the Returning infusion. It even gives you some spells and utility for your trouble. This gets you consistent magical attacks only 1 level behind everyone else that can turn their special attacks magical. (5 levels of Fighter for extra attack, then 2 levels of artificer)
2. Talk to your DM about acquiring a weapon with the Returning property before the campaign starts. The Dwarven Thrower is the holy grail for high level builds, but any thrown weapon with the returning property will do for a mid level thrower. Your mileage will vary, but I think a lot of DMs would be willing to work something out so that your build doesn't fall behind at level 6+.
3. Design an item similar to the Blinkback Belt from Pathfinder.
4. This sick homebrew feat from Third_Sundering. A very solid design with precedent in the Eldritch Adept/Metamagic Adept style feats. This feels more like a feat that will see print eventually than a true homebrew. Thanks for the resource Third_Sundering!
Infusing Adept
Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
You are practiced in the imbuing of items with arcane magic, allowing you to artificially create prototypical magic items. You gain two Infusions Knowns of your choice from the Artificer class. Any infusion you choose this way must have no prerequisite other than being a 2nd-level artificer. You ignore this restriction if you are an artificer that meets the requirements of the infusions you choose from this feat. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace one infusion granted by this feat with another one from the artificer class.
When you finish a long rest, you can touch a nonmagical object and turn it into a magic item, using one of the infusions granted by this feat. Otherwise, you follow all rules for infusing items described in the Infusing an Item feature from the Artificer class.
The simple Dart (or more questionably martial Net) is a ranged weapon, so it can also benefit from Sharpshooter and Archery fighting style... For -3 to hit and +12 damage
or
The simple Dagger, Handaxe, Javelin, Light Hammer or Spear (and the martial Trident or for some Dwarves with a magical Warhammer) is a melee weapon and so yes can double dip into fighting style for +4 damage. The benefit of the melee thrown weapons is a higher damage die.
I think multi-classing to Artificer for Returning Weapon is a good way to get past the magic item problem and makes for a really cool dynamic (and reduced cost for replacing thrown weapons).
The dart was not on my radar. Definitely gives the melee weapons a run for their money. Any opinion on what the stronger approach is?
Artificer for returning weapon is brilliant. You'd be picking it up at character level 7, which is only 1 level after every other class gets their ability to turn whatever non-magical attack they rely on magical
Dwarven thrower come to mind for a magic item. They’re very rare, so you need a nice DM and even then it might be a while before you get one, but it’s good to work toward. Of course then you need to be a dwarf, but dwarf fighters rock, so you’re good there.
I’d prefer an axe or hammer or other thrown melee to a dart. You can’t use the dart in melee, so if someone runs up on you, you’re stuck.
For maneuvers, I’d love the flavor of disarming someone with a thrown weapon. Pushing attack is hilarious, you hit him so hard with your hand axe it moves him back 15 feet. Goading attack is great from range, forcing enemies to come to you or take disadvantage is fantastic battlefield control. For asi, Max str. It helps your to hit, damage, and maneuver save dc. If you go with axes, the slasher feat would be great. Couple that with goading attack — they want to go to you, but you’ve reduced their move — how fun is that? (Of course, it wouldn’t work with the dwarven thrower).
Ahahaha I can't stop thinking about Django cause of that ranged push attack. Bye miss laura
Dwarven Thrower is an awesome magic item to base a high level build around. I went searching for a feat or class ability that gave a similar (but much less powerful) ability to a non throwing weapon, but I think my mind had taken things I saw when reading this weapon a long time ago and confused where they came from.
Slasher + goading attack is super cool. Slasher is also great with trip attack. SeanJP brought this up in their barbarian thread. By the time they get up they only have 5 feat of movement. Goading and trip are both looking really good on a slasher based thrower.
There is defo some fun you can go for with throwing weapons, the new Psi Knight and Artificer 2 for Returning Weapon - basically controlling 1 weapon as it flies all over the battlefield - here is an 18ac lv10 character with a dex focus.
Dwarven thrower come to mind for a magic item. They’re very rare, so you need a nice DM and even then it might be a while before you get one, but it’s good to work toward. Of course then you need to be a dwarf, but dwarf fighters rock, so you’re good there.
I’d prefer an axe or hammer or other thrown melee to a dart. You can’t use the dart in melee, so if someone runs up on you, you’re stuck.
For maneuvers, I’d love the flavor of disarming someone with a thrown weapon. Pushing attack is hilarious, you hit him so hard with your hand axe it moves him back 15 feet. Goading attack is great from range, forcing enemies to come to you or take disadvantage is fantastic battlefield control. For asi, Max str. It helps your to hit, damage, and maneuver save dc. If you go with axes, the slasher feat would be great. Couple that with goading attack — they want to go to you, but you’ve reduced their move — how fun is that? (Of course, it wouldn’t work with the dwarven thrower).
I wouldn't discount Ranged weapons so quickly simply because you are useless if someone gets into melee with you - there are plenty of ways to get free movement or shoves in D&D... also Ranged gives you access to the always awesome Storm Boomerang (as it deals Bludgoning as well, with the new feats, this is a huge boon).
Could also go for a light hammer and a shield for a fighter with returning weapon and Crusher feat for some fun knock-back and Thor/Captain America vibes.
Honestly not a fan of psi warrior (in general or this build). I don't think it brings enough to this build to justify over battle master (setting aside personal preference of course). I get the yondu flavor you're going for but I think that's covered by the returning infusion alone. He didn't have other telekinetic powers, or any at all. It was technology that allowed him to control the arrow. And on a dart-sharpshooter build with that big of a flat bonus to attacks, I think you want quick toss for another attack more than ever.
The dart is making a super compelling case for itself by being able to take advantage of archery style + sharpshooter. Known power couple. That's a big boon.
I like that a mid-level melee thrower can pick up a single +1 version of their preferred weapon and have a melee routine that isn't terrible against non-magic resistance. Hopefully this can tide the build over to a better solution once wealth picks up. Loses its niche if you're going for artificer though.
I think a big selling point for a melee thrower build will be slasher or crusher. Darts are one of a kind in their category (get out of here nets), but melee throwers open up to these sweet feats that are much better when applied at range than in melee.
I think you did miss one feature that made me think of this build: Psionic Strike. You can propel your weapons with psionic force. Once on each of your turns, immediately after you hit a target within 30 feet of you with an attack and deal damage to it with a weapon, you can expend one Psionic Energy die, rolling it and dealing force damage to the target equal to the number rolled plus your Intelligence modifier.
However, yes I agree it is hard to beat Battle Master for a more generic build. The Quick Toss manouver also adds a lot for a thrown weapon build.
I am interested to know what feats you are refering to... can't go for dual wield if you are also going duelling and cant get a heavy throwing weapon... The only thing I can think of is Spear and Polearm Master?
Honestly not a fan of psi warrior (in general or this build). I don't think it brings enough to this build to justify over battle master (setting aside personal preference of course). I get the yondu flavor you're going for but I think that's covered by the returning infusion alone. He didn't have other telekinetic powers, or any at all. It was technology that allowed him to control the arrow. And on a dart-sharpshooter build with that big of a flat bonus to attacks, I think you want quick toss for another attack more than ever.
Oh I meant the feats Slasher and Crusher that I had mentioned in the previous sentence. Should have capitalized or bolded them to have them stick out in the thought.
I get psionic strike is there, I just think quick toss is the far superior extra damage option. On a dart build especially. It's nice that psionic strike doesn't take an action, but the psi warrior doesn't have a solid bonus action for the build anyways, so it's mostly a wasted benefit.
Speaking of Spears and PAM, I did drum up a ridiculous "10 foot thrower" Bugbear build. Nothing in PAM says your spear attacks have to be melee attacks (only the bonus action attack has to be melee). So, standing 10 feet from your target, you throw the spear twice and then smack them with the butt end with your long ass arms. Why not just hold on to the the pointy stick to attack? If you're asking that you just don't get it.
I'm also quite interested in Ranger as a dip or base in a multiclass with battle master. Hunter's Mark is obvious, a great tool to boost single target damage, but what really excites me is what some of the subclasses bring to the equation.
Here are the 3 subclasses I'm looking at:
Hunter: Old Reliable: Horder Breaker is a fairly consistent way to get an extra attack. The most boring option of the 3, you know what you're getting. Ranger 4 is all that's needed.
Gloomstalker: The Golden Child: Gloomstalker's extra attack and action surge go together like two peas in a pod. Some incredible turn 1 nova potential and great support in the stealth department. I've loved gloomstalker since its release and this build is no different. Ranger 4 is perfect here as well.
Swarmkeeper: The Rookie. This is mostly on here as a meme. The miss laura build. The ultimate push thrower. Crusher + Pushing Maneuever + Swarmkeeper Push is up to 35 feet of forced movement in one turn. Obviously, this is not a super reliable ability as the full push requires two failed saves. This would be a ranger base with a BM dip to get spike growth out of the second level spell slot. That's potentially 14d4 extra damage when things line up. I think there might be enough generically good things about the build that you can go for the meme every now and then and still be effective. Plus I just love the swarmkeeper. Tiny crab rave for life
Take a look at Rogue Scout, too. The Skirmisher feature keeps you out of melee with a reaction:
Skirmisher Starting at 3rd level, you are difficult to pin down during a fight. You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
Sneak attack for 2d6 as well.
I have a soon-to-be 14th level battle master archer that is seriously looking at 3 levels of Scout or Gloomstalker. I flavored darts into shuriken because darts always feel dumb to me.
Edit: I am quite fond of the Yondu dart build though. Artificer flips the script for me on that one.
I'm not a huge fan of rogue generally to be honest. I see the use of skirmisher, but I don't think 3 levels is a great investment. For a dart thrower I think I'd rather just pick up evasive footwork as a maneuver if getting out of tight spaces happens a decent amount. So much cleaner than dipping out of fighter for 3 levels.
As for your build I highly recommend Gloomstalker over Scout. Dread Ambusher + Action Surge is so good. Hunter's mark will be a staple pick up, and the class makes you a stealth lord in dark places. Scout just can't compare.
14 Battle Smith, 3 Gloom Stalker, and 1 Twilight Cleric could be very nice for a 300-foot sharpshooter bow shot with Dread Ambusher. Even at 90-feet with Hunter's Mark added on top.
Quiver of Ehlonna looks like a nice, less rare magic item for a thrower focusing on spears or javelins. Doesn't alleviate the real problem of making your attacks magical though.
In pathfinder they have the blinkback belt, an item that essentially gives the returning property to a small number of weapons hung from the belt. Is there anything like that item in 5e?
Artificer is looking cleaner and cleaner as I explore the subject. Great suggestion Cheeky_Hamster
I really want darts to be good, but aren't we just paying two levels and a Fighting Style to bring them (almost) up to par with longbow damage? I guess you can use a shield, but you can stay a bit further back with a bow too.
Obviously there's plenty of style points here, not trying to knock it. But I wish there was a bit more oomph to go with it.
I really want darts to be good, but aren't we just paying two levels and a Fighting Style to bring them (almost) up to par with longbow damage? I guess you can use a shield, but you can stay a bit further back with a bow too.
Obviously there's plenty of style points here, not trying to knock it. But I wish there was a bit more oomph to go with it.
1d4+13 is better than 1d8+10, as it deals one more average damage (more reliably) and has an extra +1 to hit (returning weapon)... though does less on a crit. Also, yeah, style points!
Obviously I havn't accounted for stat modifiers here though and with the aformentioned tax of an extra fighting style and two levels in Artificer, it is likely that the stats are lower for the dart thrower than the longbow user (and range much shorter, though this doesn't come up much).
Also, rather than multi-classing again to try to get in and out of combat better, Echo Knight is a strong contender for Battle Master in terms of flexability - Bonus Action retreats from an enemy or just using your echo for attacks is great.
I really want darts to be good, but aren't we just paying two levels and a Fighting Style to bring them (almost) up to par with longbow damage? I guess you can use a shield, but you can stay a bit further back with a bow too.
Obviously there's plenty of style points here, not trying to knock it. But I wish there was a bit more oomph to go with it.
It has a lot to do with style points. Considering thrown weapon combat was not even a thing before this and that archery + sharpshooter is one of the best combat styles in 5e, I'm okay with that.
One thing being left out of the equation though: Quick Toss. The longbow doesn't have an equivalent maneuver, or any source of bonus action attack from the battle master. Funneling the majority of your superiority dice into quick toss will have the dart significantly outpacing the longbow damage from a more traditional archer BM.
Dart vs Hand Crossbow is a different story. But the hand crossbow comes with its own set of baggage that leaves it on the sideline a lot even when it is the technically superior choice.
I love that the dart can be made powerful like this. The dart is one of the easier weapons to reskin and really helps to open up a whole new range of character concepts.
Melee throwers are a different story, and harder to compare to the longbow archer. They get to attack in melee with no effort, and have some very interesting feat + maneuver options that archers will never have. Slasher and Crusher from ToCE are excellent when applied to ranged attacks and feel really important to me in order to set the melee thrower apart. The melee thrower BM trades damage for control, combining things like push, trip and goad alongside the speed reduction/pushing of slasher and crusher.
One more benefit any of these builds: free hands. A thrower of any kind can wear a shield without disrupting their attacks.
I can't believe I missed this thread! These are really cool combos.
I personally made a homebrew feat that would make this combination not require multiclassing. It's essentially an artificer version of Eldritch/Martial/Metamagic Adept.
Infusing Adept
Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
You are practiced in the imbuing of items with arcane magic, allowing you to artificially create prototypical magic items. You gain two Infusions Knowns of your choice from the Artificer class. Any infusion you choose this way must have no prerequisite other than being a 2nd-level artificer. You ignore this restriction if you are an artificer that meets the requirements of the infusions you choose from this feat. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace one infusion granted by this feat with another one from the artificer class.
When you finish a long rest, you can touch a nonmagical object and turn it into a magic item, using one of the infusions granted by this feat. Otherwise, you follow all rules for infusing items described in the Infusing an Item feature from the Artificer class.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I was actually about to make a thread about this... May I present to you... Quick Toss + Net !
So usually the net is a pretty questionable weapon because the action used to throw it can only be one attack.. This means that you'll have a difficult time taking advantage of the imposed restrained condition... The net also has an issue with disadvantage due to it's range setup..
Now.. batter master thrower will almost certainly have quick throw and the sharpshooter feat... So.. What you do is bonus action quick throw a net(can be drawn as part of the attack due to thrown fighting style and wont have disadvantage thanks to sharpshooter) then proceed to throw darts with sharpshooter +10 damage.
Basically you're spending a martial arts die and a bonus action to give yourself advantage for (atleast) one turn.. Oh and the target will need to spend an action or an attack to get out of the net aswell.
I really ike it because it's such a unique mechanic to the thrown weapons build,.. And I enjoy the idea of a battle master using non magical tools to gain an advantage in combat..
Also.. reflavoring darts into throwing knives can make for super cool knife juggler concept. The only issue here is the magical damage problem.. dipping 2 levels into artificer seems like a steep price to pay.. When I hopefully get to play a build like this I'll be asking my DM for some kind of magic pouch that'll return my favourite darts/throwing knives after bein used.
Third_Sundering: That's a great homebrew feat! I would not be surprised at all if something just like that saw print eventually. Mind if I put that in the OP to build the reference?
MamasToast: I love the thought you've put into using nets. Something I (and pretty much everyone) tends to ignore. Seems like a really cool build. I'd be looking to make a BM net thrower an elf or half-elf to pick up Elven Accuracy I think. Really ratchet up the net synergy.
I personally really like the artificer dip. I think you get a lot out of two levels. I love what minor spellcasting adds to martials like this and returning is such an important piece of the puzzle. And I think fighters handle dips well thanks to their extra ASI's. Putting off that third attack sucks. No way around that. Guess that's a weakness I'm willing to overlook thanks to quick toss and the fact that I treat level 12 like it's the capstone of the game (I mostly care about things that happen level 1-8)
If your DM is open to homebrewing magic items I definitely recommend you look into the Blinkback Belt from pathfinder. Pretty much exactly what you're looking for with that pouch concept.
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Title says it all.
Thrown Weapon Style (TWS) finally gives some love to a previously unplayable style. +2 damage is the industry standard and being able to draw weapons as part of your attack action means your style is actually functional. This leaves acquiring magic weapons as your only obstacle.
Battle Master adds the quick toss maneuver for a bonus action attack with extra damage.
Fighting Initiate enables a second fighting style. This is where I really perk up. Dueling works with thrown weapon attacks, which combines with TWS for a tidy +4 damage to your thrown weapon attacks.
You also have the dart, which can take advantage of Archery Style + Sharpshooter. As crossbow expert can attest, marrying sharpshooter with a source of bonus action attacks (quick toss) is quite powerful. Thanks for bringing this version of the thrower to light Cheeky_Hamster.
How would you flesh out this build? Other maneuvers, feats, ASIs, secondary roles. What race? I want a feat at level one, but maybe something else has a lot to add. What's your answer to the magic weapon problem? Full BM or multiclass? Maybe you think this should be built off of a different class entirely. I want to hear about your weapon chucking maniac.
Building a list of options that solve the magic item problem. Most of these will involve a returning weapon in one way or another. It's simply the cleanest answer to an annoying problem.
1. Dip 2 levels in Artificer. This allows you to pick up the Returning infusion. It even gives you some spells and utility for your trouble. This gets you consistent magical attacks only 1 level behind everyone else that can turn their special attacks magical. (5 levels of Fighter for extra attack, then 2 levels of artificer)
2. Talk to your DM about acquiring a weapon with the Returning property before the campaign starts. The Dwarven Thrower is the holy grail for high level builds, but any thrown weapon with the returning property will do for a mid level thrower. Your mileage will vary, but I think a lot of DMs would be willing to work something out so that your build doesn't fall behind at level 6+.
3. Design an item similar to the Blinkback Belt from Pathfinder.
4. This sick homebrew feat from Third_Sundering. A very solid design with precedent in the Eldritch Adept/Metamagic Adept style feats. This feels more like a feat that will see print eventually than a true homebrew. Thanks for the resource Third_Sundering!
The simple Dart (or more questionably martial Net) is a ranged weapon, so it can also benefit from Sharpshooter and Archery fighting style... For -3 to hit and +12 damage
or
The simple Dagger, Handaxe, Javelin, Light Hammer or Spear (and the martial Trident or for some Dwarves with a magical Warhammer) is a melee weapon and so yes can double dip into fighting style for +4 damage. The benefit of the melee thrown weapons is a higher damage die.
I think multi-classing to Artificer for Returning Weapon is a good way to get past the magic item problem and makes for a really cool dynamic (and reduced cost for replacing thrown weapons).
The dart was not on my radar. Definitely gives the melee weapons a run for their money. Any opinion on what the stronger approach is?
Artificer for returning weapon is brilliant. You'd be picking it up at character level 7, which is only 1 level after every other class gets their ability to turn whatever non-magical attack they rely on magical
Dwarven thrower come to mind for a magic item. They’re very rare, so you need a nice DM and even then it might be a while before you get one, but it’s good to work toward. Of course then you need to be a dwarf, but dwarf fighters rock, so you’re good there.
I’d prefer an axe or hammer or other thrown melee to a dart. You can’t use the dart in melee, so if someone runs up on you, you’re stuck.
For maneuvers, I’d love the flavor of disarming someone with a thrown weapon. Pushing attack is hilarious, you hit him so hard with your hand axe it moves him back 15 feet. Goading attack is great from range, forcing enemies to come to you or take disadvantage is fantastic battlefield control.
For asi, Max str. It helps your to hit, damage, and maneuver save dc.
If you go with axes, the slasher feat would be great. Couple that with goading attack — they want to go to you, but you’ve reduced their move — how fun is that? (Of course, it wouldn’t work with the dwarven thrower).
Ahahaha I can't stop thinking about Django cause of that ranged push attack. Bye miss laura
Dwarven Thrower is an awesome magic item to base a high level build around. I went searching for a feat or class ability that gave a similar (but much less powerful) ability to a non throwing weapon, but I think my mind had taken things I saw when reading this weapon a long time ago and confused where they came from.
Slasher + goading attack is super cool. Slasher is also great with trip attack. SeanJP brought this up in their barbarian thread. By the time they get up they only have 5 feat of movement. Goading and trip are both looking really good on a slasher based thrower.
Yondu, the telekenetic dart thrower
There is defo some fun you can go for with throwing weapons, the new Psi Knight and Artificer 2 for Returning Weapon - basically controlling 1 weapon as it flies all over the battlefield - here is an 18ac lv10 character with a dex focus.
I wouldn't discount Ranged weapons so quickly simply because you are useless if someone gets into melee with you - there are plenty of ways to get free movement or shoves in D&D... also Ranged gives you access to the always awesome Storm Boomerang (as it deals Bludgoning as well, with the new feats, this is a huge boon).
Could also go for a light hammer and a shield for a fighter with returning weapon and Crusher feat for some fun knock-back and Thor/Captain America vibes.
Honestly not a fan of psi warrior (in general or this build). I don't think it brings enough to this build to justify over battle master (setting aside personal preference of course). I get the yondu flavor you're going for but I think that's covered by the returning infusion alone. He didn't have other telekinetic powers, or any at all. It was technology that allowed him to control the arrow. And on a dart-sharpshooter build with that big of a flat bonus to attacks, I think you want quick toss for another attack more than ever.
The dart is making a super compelling case for itself by being able to take advantage of archery style + sharpshooter. Known power couple. That's a big boon.
I like that a mid-level melee thrower can pick up a single +1 version of their preferred weapon and have a melee routine that isn't terrible against non-magic resistance. Hopefully this can tide the build over to a better solution once wealth picks up. Loses its niche if you're going for artificer though.
I think a big selling point for a melee thrower build will be slasher or crusher. Darts are one of a kind in their category (get out of here nets), but melee throwers open up to these sweet feats that are much better when applied at range than in melee.
I think you did miss one feature that made me think of this build: Psionic Strike. You can propel your weapons with psionic force. Once on each of your turns, immediately after you hit a target within 30 feet of you with an attack and deal damage to it with a weapon, you can expend one Psionic Energy die, rolling it and dealing force damage to the target equal to the number rolled plus your Intelligence modifier.
However, yes I agree it is hard to beat Battle Master for a more generic build. The Quick Toss manouver also adds a lot for a thrown weapon build.
I am interested to know what feats you are refering to... can't go for dual wield if you are also going duelling and cant get a heavy throwing weapon... The only thing I can think of is Spear and Polearm Master?
Oh I meant the feats Slasher and Crusher that I had mentioned in the previous sentence. Should have capitalized or bolded them to have them stick out in the thought.
I get psionic strike is there, I just think quick toss is the far superior extra damage option. On a dart build especially. It's nice that psionic strike doesn't take an action, but the psi warrior doesn't have a solid bonus action for the build anyways, so it's mostly a wasted benefit.
Speaking of Spears and PAM, I did drum up a ridiculous "10 foot thrower" Bugbear build. Nothing in PAM says your spear attacks have to be melee attacks (only the bonus action attack has to be melee). So, standing 10 feet from your target, you throw the spear twice and then smack them with the butt end with your long ass arms. Why not just hold on to the the pointy stick to attack? If you're asking that you just don't get it.
I'm also quite interested in Ranger as a dip or base in a multiclass with battle master. Hunter's Mark is obvious, a great tool to boost single target damage, but what really excites me is what some of the subclasses bring to the equation.
Here are the 3 subclasses I'm looking at:
Hunter: Old Reliable: Horder Breaker is a fairly consistent way to get an extra attack. The most boring option of the 3, you know what you're getting. Ranger 4 is all that's needed.
Gloomstalker: The Golden Child: Gloomstalker's extra attack and action surge go together like two peas in a pod. Some incredible turn 1 nova potential and great support in the stealth department. I've loved gloomstalker since its release and this build is no different. Ranger 4 is perfect here as well.
Swarmkeeper: The Rookie. This is mostly on here as a meme. The miss laura build. The ultimate push thrower. Crusher + Pushing Maneuever + Swarmkeeper Push is up to 35 feet of forced movement in one turn. Obviously, this is not a super reliable ability as the full push requires two failed saves. This would be a ranger base with a BM dip to get spike growth out of the second level spell slot. That's potentially 14d4 extra damage when things line up. I think there might be enough generically good things about the build that you can go for the meme every now and then and still be effective. Plus I just love the swarmkeeper. Tiny crab rave for life
Take a look at Rogue Scout, too. The Skirmisher feature keeps you out of melee with a reaction:
Sneak attack for 2d6 as well.
I have a soon-to-be 14th level battle master archer that is seriously looking at 3 levels of Scout or Gloomstalker. I flavored darts into shuriken because darts always feel dumb to me.
Ugh I hate darts too. What a lame weapon.
"I throw my dart"
Just not cool.
Edit: I am quite fond of the Yondu dart build though. Artificer flips the script for me on that one.
I'm not a huge fan of rogue generally to be honest. I see the use of skirmisher, but I don't think 3 levels is a great investment. For a dart thrower I think I'd rather just pick up evasive footwork as a maneuver if getting out of tight spaces happens a decent amount. So much cleaner than dipping out of fighter for 3 levels.
As for your build I highly recommend Gloomstalker over Scout. Dread Ambusher + Action Surge is so good. Hunter's mark will be a staple pick up, and the class makes you a stealth lord in dark places. Scout just can't compare.
14 Battle Smith, 3 Gloom Stalker, and 1 Twilight Cleric could be very nice for a 300-foot sharpshooter bow shot with Dread Ambusher. Even at 90-feet with Hunter's Mark added on top.
You're a madman.
Quiver of Ehlonna looks like a nice, less rare magic item for a thrower focusing on spears or javelins. Doesn't alleviate the real problem of making your attacks magical though.
In pathfinder they have the blinkback belt, an item that essentially gives the returning property to a small number of weapons hung from the belt. Is there anything like that item in 5e?
Artificer is looking cleaner and cleaner as I explore the subject. Great suggestion Cheeky_Hamster
I really want darts to be good, but aren't we just paying two levels and a Fighting Style to bring them (almost) up to par with longbow damage? I guess you can use a shield, but you can stay a bit further back with a bow too.
Obviously there's plenty of style points here, not trying to knock it. But I wish there was a bit more oomph to go with it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
1d4+13 is better than 1d8+10, as it deals one more average damage (more reliably) and has an extra +1 to hit (returning weapon)... though does less on a crit. Also, yeah, style points!
Obviously I havn't accounted for stat modifiers here though and with the aformentioned tax of an extra fighting style and two levels in Artificer, it is likely that the stats are lower for the dart thrower than the longbow user (and range much shorter, though this doesn't come up much).
Also, rather than multi-classing again to try to get in and out of combat better, Echo Knight is a strong contender for Battle Master in terms of flexability - Bonus Action retreats from an enemy or just using your echo for attacks is great.
It has a lot to do with style points. Considering thrown weapon combat was not even a thing before this and that archery + sharpshooter is one of the best combat styles in 5e, I'm okay with that.
One thing being left out of the equation though: Quick Toss. The longbow doesn't have an equivalent maneuver, or any source of bonus action attack from the battle master. Funneling the majority of your superiority dice into quick toss will have the dart significantly outpacing the longbow damage from a more traditional archer BM.
Dart vs Hand Crossbow is a different story. But the hand crossbow comes with its own set of baggage that leaves it on the sideline a lot even when it is the technically superior choice.
I love that the dart can be made powerful like this. The dart is one of the easier weapons to reskin and really helps to open up a whole new range of character concepts.
Melee throwers are a different story, and harder to compare to the longbow archer. They get to attack in melee with no effort, and have some very interesting feat + maneuver options that archers will never have. Slasher and Crusher from ToCE are excellent when applied to ranged attacks and feel really important to me in order to set the melee thrower apart. The melee thrower BM trades damage for control, combining things like push, trip and goad alongside the speed reduction/pushing of slasher and crusher.
One more benefit any of these builds: free hands. A thrower of any kind can wear a shield without disrupting their attacks.
I can't believe I missed this thread! These are really cool combos.
I personally made a homebrew feat that would make this combination not require multiclassing. It's essentially an artificer version of Eldritch/Martial/Metamagic Adept.
Infusing Adept
Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
You are practiced in the imbuing of items with arcane magic, allowing you to artificially create prototypical magic items. You gain two Infusions Knowns of your choice from the Artificer class. Any infusion you choose this way must have no prerequisite other than being a 2nd-level artificer. You ignore this restriction if you are an artificer that meets the requirements of the infusions you choose from this feat. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace one infusion granted by this feat with another one from the artificer class.
When you finish a long rest, you can touch a nonmagical object and turn it into a magic item, using one of the infusions granted by this feat. Otherwise, you follow all rules for infusing items described in the Infusing an Item feature from the Artificer class.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I was actually about to make a thread about this... May I present to you... Quick Toss + Net !
So usually the net is a pretty questionable weapon because the action used to throw it can only be one attack.. This means that you'll have a difficult time taking advantage of the imposed restrained condition... The net also has an issue with disadvantage due to it's range setup..
Now.. batter master thrower will almost certainly have quick throw and the sharpshooter feat... So.. What you do is bonus action quick throw a net(can be drawn as part of the attack due to thrown fighting style and wont have disadvantage thanks to sharpshooter) then proceed to throw darts with sharpshooter +10 damage.
Basically you're spending a martial arts die and a bonus action to give yourself advantage for (atleast) one turn.. Oh and the target will need to spend an action or an attack to get out of the net aswell.
I really ike it because it's such a unique mechanic to the thrown weapons build,.. And I enjoy the idea of a battle master using non magical tools to gain an advantage in combat..
Also.. reflavoring darts into throwing knives can make for super cool knife juggler concept. The only issue here is the magical damage problem.. dipping 2 levels into artificer seems like a steep price to pay.. When I hopefully get to play a build like this I'll be asking my DM for some kind of magic pouch that'll return my favourite darts/throwing knives after bein used.
Third_Sundering: That's a great homebrew feat! I would not be surprised at all if something just like that saw print eventually. Mind if I put that in the OP to build the reference?
MamasToast: I love the thought you've put into using nets. Something I (and pretty much everyone) tends to ignore. Seems like a really cool build. I'd be looking to make a BM net thrower an elf or half-elf to pick up Elven Accuracy I think. Really ratchet up the net synergy.
I personally really like the artificer dip. I think you get a lot out of two levels. I love what minor spellcasting adds to martials like this and returning is such an important piece of the puzzle. And I think fighters handle dips well thanks to their extra ASI's. Putting off that third attack sucks. No way around that. Guess that's a weakness I'm willing to overlook thanks to quick toss and the fact that I treat level 12 like it's the capstone of the game (I mostly care about things that happen level 1-8)
If your DM is open to homebrewing magic items I definitely recommend you look into the Blinkback Belt from pathfinder. Pretty much exactly what you're looking for with that pouch concept.