Its a great spell for druids. But it’s a real win for rangers. Compare this to what other martial classes get around levels 4-7 and it’s amazing. A level 5 paladin with a long sword, using an action to attack, and laying down a smite with a level 2 spell slot does 34.5 damage, requiring creatures in the spikes to just move 7 squares to equal the damage.
A level 11 paladin with a long sword, using an action to attack, and laying down a smite with a level 2 spell slot does 45.5 damage, requiring creatures in the spikes to just move 9 squares to equal the damage.
This spell can effect multiple enemies, dealing multiple amounts of damage, and/or detouring them from moving much or at all. It lasts (concentration required) for 10 minutes! It doesn’t require plants in the environment to cast, so it can be used in dungeons and castles. It can wreck an enemy group in a small or medium sized rooms or tunnels and hallways.
Concentration? Yes. But no saving throw for the (magic!) damage, creates difficult terrain, and AoE all in one for just an action and level 2 spell slot. This stacks with several other things as well at higher levels. Plant growth comes to mind.
It sounds insane on paper, but in reality it tends to wash out to about where you'd expect a level 2 spell to be. It has many counters:
go around it
just stay back and use ranged attacks
if in a defensive position, simply wait it out. maybe send a runner for reinforcements in the meantime
if there's anything that's not "ground" in the area - a stream, a stump, a log etc - it doesn't get spikes and can be a stepping stone
teleport/fly/levitate - fairly common later on
anything with a STR of 10+ can jump over at least 2 of the squares
It's great in the right situation, but that situation is not extremely common in a lot of games. Generally the "ideal" constrained terrain is in a dungeon, but if the monsters are smart, why should they charge over spikes to get to you? You are the attacker - it's you who needs to get to them. So there's little reason for them not to just sit behind a corner until the spell runs out. It's perfect for something mindless like zombies though.
All of those examples you gave sound like great effects to me. Especially for a level 2 spell slot. All of the them disrupted the condition of the battlefield and forced the enemy to make a less than ideal decision. That’s a win in my book.
Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing long jump, you can leap only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.
This rule assumes that the height of your jump doesn't matter, such as a jump across a stream or chasm. At your DM's option, you must succeed on a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check to clear a low obstacle (no taller than a quarter of the jump's distance), such as a hedge or low wall. Otherwise, you hit it.
When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone.
High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier (minimum of 0 feet) if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement. In some circumstances, your DM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can.
You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1 1/2 times your height.
So this still pretty great. If they have a 20 strength and a running start they can get from the square just outside the spike growth's radius to the square just shy of the point of origin (this PC with a 20 strength now needs to make an acrobatics check or fall prone and losing more movement). From there they have use their action to dash to either move some in the spike growth for a long jump or do a standing long jump, the latter will get them two more squares through the spike growth (and another acrobatics check or fall prone). That's turn one if they dash (loss of action and two instances 2d4 damage). Next turn they can again either move for damage and a long jump or make a standing jump. More damage and more loss of movement and maybe action loss. If you plop the spike growth right on top of one, two, or a bunch of enemies we have all kinds of little CHIP damage, loss of movement, possible loss of action economy, and overall hassle. The ranger is also an archer so peppering them while they're waiting gout the spell is of great benefit to the ranger.
Trying to jump over it is obviously the less optimal choice since it also counts as difficult terrain so requires an Acrobatics check to not fall prone. Still doesn't stop the enemy to wait it out, go around or use ranged weapons and spells on you once they figured out what's going on though.
It would be far greater if you could make it work only on enemies so your party's Barbarian and Fighter could just waltz through it and force a fight. I don't think that would be too much for a level 2 spell either considering the competition for that slot.
It's a nice spell. Not an awesome one.
LOL! All of that sounds great! Either they take s truck load of damage or have to spend several turns (or many turns given your one solution since it’s a 10 minute duration) doing less than optimal stuff. Man. If something does anything other than blunt direct damage the entire internet has zero ability to appreciate it and use it tactically.
Lol it's not like I'm outright dismissing what you are saying. I just think you are grossly overstating how good those things are.
That's par for the course for him with anything regarding the Ranger.
LOL! Yes! Everyone else on the internet’s opinion of the ranger is based on their “feeling” of it instead of math, simplistic gameplay, and the “the ranger is bad” meme. Ten years from now I will be hailed as a hero to the people.
It really is a fantastic spell. Great aoe size for the level with an incredible range. OP has done a great job of highlighting its strengths. It's interesting to see those damage comparisons, but I think it's important to note that spike growth does not have to reach, or even get close to those numbers to have a significant impact on combat. I've always been super happy with it even when it doesn't produce a ton of damage. Influencing enemy movement and passive damage is a very strong combination with many tactical implications.
sfPanzer has also done a thorough and fair criticism of spike growth's weaknesses. They're all very real. I have seen many a spike growth fall quite flat. I spent my last campaign watching the party's druid fumble around with the spell combat after combat, making it look comically bad. But even in the situations where the enemy movement or tactics rendered it ineffective as a damage dealer, it was boneheaded placements and timings that made it perform so poorly. Spike growth has a surprisingly high learning curve to really squeeze the juice out of (and I'm not talking about the obvious push/pull synergies).
I'll add that it lacks any sort of scaling and suffers from context as another concentration spell on the druid and ranger's concentration heavy lists. I'd also imagine it's quite poor on a team with all melee types but I mean whatever. Get some ranged attacks people. Costing a spell known in your limited pool is easily the biggest and most important criticism against taking this spell as a ranger.
But frankly I'm not bothered that it has exploitable weaknesses and won't be good every combat because its ceiling is incredibly high. I like this on a ranger especially, because you have hunter's mark + extra attack to fall back on as your consistent combat contribution when spike growth looks like it will be a dud. As you're a utility half caster, not a full caster, you're not leaning on your spell slots to be consistent combat abilities (outside of hunter's mark of course), so having a situational spell around with this kind of power ceiling is something I'm a big fan of.
I'm happy to see someone else enjoying the beauty of this spell on a ranger. I don't see much ranger discussion using the battlefield manipulation of spike growth (and I'd add conjure animals to the discussion at level 9). I think it's an underappreciated aspect of the ranger's kit and has high synergy with its best combat style, archery.
It's a great spell, and I think it fits really well with playing as a trap-setting Ranger.
You don't see people talk a lot online about laying traps and ambushes with Rangers, it always goes down to per-round damage which is silly, as it's my favourite thing to do, and a good trap can absolutely wreck enemies before you're even in range to be hit back.
Spike Growth does have a limited time and requires concentration, so you really need to be lying in wait and ready to cast it as soon as enemies are committed, for example if you can get them to charge into a narrow area (corridor, gulley or whatever). It's probably not optimal, but I love to pair it with Snare; get an enemy caught in that then as their friends rush to help the ground becomes a spiky nightmare 😈
In general though, which spell choice is right for a Ranger depends a lot on what the rest of the party has; Rangers can take Cure Wounds for example, but you don't really want to, especially if you've a Cleric or a Paladin in the party for healer duty.
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This is such a great spell!
Its a great spell for druids. But it’s a real win for rangers. Compare this to what other martial classes get around levels 4-7 and it’s amazing. A level 5 paladin with a long sword, using an action to attack, and laying down a smite with a level 2 spell slot does 34.5 damage, requiring creatures in the spikes to just move 7 squares to equal the damage.
A level 11 paladin with a long sword, using an action to attack, and laying down a smite with a level 2 spell slot does 45.5 damage, requiring creatures in the spikes to just move 9 squares to equal the damage.
This spell can effect multiple enemies, dealing multiple amounts of damage, and/or detouring them from moving much or at all. It lasts (concentration required) for 10 minutes! It doesn’t require plants in the environment to cast, so it can be used in dungeons and castles. It can wreck an enemy group in a small or medium sized rooms or tunnels and hallways.
Concentration? Yes. But no saving throw for the (magic!) damage, creates difficult terrain, and AoE all in one for just an action and level 2 spell slot. This stacks with several other things as well at higher levels. Plant growth comes to mind.
I'm thinking it's a winning combination with swarmkeeper.
Yes! Swarmkeeper with druidic warrior for some great push/pull action with spike growth!
What I call the Cuddle Buddy build.
Cast Spike Growth. Wild Shape into an Air Elemental, grab your new friend and hug them all across the Spike Growth for your full 90 foot of movement.
This is why I believe they made rangers NOT prepared casters. The options and utility is crazy.
It sounds insane on paper, but in reality it tends to wash out to about where you'd expect a level 2 spell to be. It has many counters:
It's great in the right situation, but that situation is not extremely common in a lot of games. Generally the "ideal" constrained terrain is in a dungeon, but if the monsters are smart, why should they charge over spikes to get to you? You are the attacker - it's you who needs to get to them. So there's little reason for them not to just sit behind a corner until the spell runs out. It's perfect for something mindless like zombies though.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
All of those examples you gave sound like great effects to me. Especially for a level 2 spell slot. All of the them disrupted the condition of the battlefield and forced the enemy to make a less than ideal decision. That’s a win in my book.
So this still pretty great. If they have a 20 strength and a running start they can get from the square just outside the spike growth's radius to the square just shy of the point of origin (this PC with a 20 strength now needs to make an acrobatics check or fall prone and losing more movement). From there they have use their action to dash to either move some in the spike growth for a long jump or do a standing long jump, the latter will get them two more squares through the spike growth (and another acrobatics check or fall prone). That's turn one if they dash (loss of action and two instances 2d4 damage). Next turn they can again either move for damage and a long jump or make a standing jump. More damage and more loss of movement and maybe action loss. If you plop the spike growth right on top of one, two, or a bunch of enemies we have all kinds of little CHIP damage, loss of movement, possible loss of action economy, and overall hassle. The ranger is also an archer so peppering them while they're waiting gout the spell is of great benefit to the ranger.
LOL! All of that sounds great! Either they take s truck load of damage or have to spend several turns (or many turns given your one solution since it’s a 10 minute duration) doing less than optimal stuff. Man. If something does anything other than blunt direct damage the entire internet has zero ability to appreciate it and use it tactically.
That's par for the course for him with anything regarding the Ranger.
LOL! Yes! Everyone else on the internet’s opinion of the ranger is based on their “feeling” of it instead of math, simplistic gameplay, and the “the ranger is bad” meme. Ten years from now I will be hailed as a hero to the people.
Time will tell. In the meantime, I have the ranger all to myself. 🥰
Wait until I discover the monk class! 🤪
I LOVE SPIKE GROWTH
It really is a fantastic spell. Great aoe size for the level with an incredible range. OP has done a great job of highlighting its strengths. It's interesting to see those damage comparisons, but I think it's important to note that spike growth does not have to reach, or even get close to those numbers to have a significant impact on combat. I've always been super happy with it even when it doesn't produce a ton of damage. Influencing enemy movement and passive damage is a very strong combination with many tactical implications.
sfPanzer has also done a thorough and fair criticism of spike growth's weaknesses. They're all very real. I have seen many a spike growth fall quite flat. I spent my last campaign watching the party's druid fumble around with the spell combat after combat, making it look comically bad. But even in the situations where the enemy movement or tactics rendered it ineffective as a damage dealer, it was boneheaded placements and timings that made it perform so poorly. Spike growth has a surprisingly high learning curve to really squeeze the juice out of (and I'm not talking about the obvious push/pull synergies).
I'll add that it lacks any sort of scaling and suffers from context as another concentration spell on the druid and ranger's concentration heavy lists. I'd also imagine it's quite poor on a team with all melee types but I mean whatever. Get some ranged attacks people. Costing a spell known in your limited pool is easily the biggest and most important criticism against taking this spell as a ranger.
But frankly I'm not bothered that it has exploitable weaknesses and won't be good every combat because its ceiling is incredibly high. I like this on a ranger especially, because you have hunter's mark + extra attack to fall back on as your consistent combat contribution when spike growth looks like it will be a dud. As you're a utility half caster, not a full caster, you're not leaning on your spell slots to be consistent combat abilities (outside of hunter's mark of course), so having a situational spell around with this kind of power ceiling is something I'm a big fan of.
I'm happy to see someone else enjoying the beauty of this spell on a ranger. I don't see much ranger discussion using the battlefield manipulation of spike growth (and I'd add conjure animals to the discussion at level 9). I think it's an underappreciated aspect of the ranger's kit and has high synergy with its best combat style, archery.
It's a great spell, and I think it fits really well with playing as a trap-setting Ranger.
You don't see people talk a lot online about laying traps and ambushes with Rangers, it always goes down to per-round damage which is silly, as it's my favourite thing to do, and a good trap can absolutely wreck enemies before you're even in range to be hit back.
Spike Growth does have a limited time and requires concentration, so you really need to be lying in wait and ready to cast it as soon as enemies are committed, for example if you can get them to charge into a narrow area (corridor, gulley or whatever). It's probably not optimal, but I love to pair it with Snare; get an enemy caught in that then as their friends rush to help the ground becomes a spiky nightmare 😈
In general though, which spell choice is right for a Ranger depends a lot on what the rest of the party has; Rangers can take Cure Wounds for example, but you don't really want to, especially if you've a Cleric or a Paladin in the party for healer duty.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.