When it comes to errata/changes, DnD Beyond as a company seems to be quick on the update to adjust their digital products to match newer additions or clarifications. This is entirely fine, in normal circumstances, however I have begun noticing certain aspects of books I have purchased and used in the past that are now changed away from when I bought them in the first place. Changes such as to remove a -1 to a Kobold's strength score, or the removal of some (what is considered now) problematic lore on a particular beast/species. If there were patch notes available to see on a book that I've purchased in the past or some way to reroll the update to a prior edition, it would alleviate concerns or problems that might occur when it comes to player options if said options are changed.
We know a book with many of the currently purchasable races is coming available in the upcoming gift set. If that new book changes a race, I would especially like to be able to pick the previous version of that race in the character builder without any incidents. I already have access to 4 types of Orcs via the builder. Just give me the original versions in addition to the one in a newer book that comes out instead of replacing the old statistics with the new ones. I'd be a little miffed if suddenly a large aspect of my racial bonuses suddenly disappears from my character sheet between sessions.
Public Mod Note
(Davyd):
Moved to general feedback as unrelated to acessibility
I second this. We know a big change is coming for Kobolds specifically, and if WotC is phasing out the version of Kobolds in Volo's Guide to Monsters, we who like that version of Kobolds would like to see it still be supported, perhaps as the Classic/Volo's variant Kobold in your character creation tool.
Thirded. It seems weird to me that they would change rules for characters we might already be using for a campaign and then suddenly have their stats or abilities change that we are used to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
This is something that has been requested multiple times, usually following a notable errata. And each time the following point must be made:
D&D Beyond is obligated by their relationship with Wizards of the Coast to provide official content as dictated by WotC, including any errata
Understood, but how will this apply to "Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse" when it's released as an individual book? There won't be a reason to buy the book if stat blocks are updated as errata.
This is something that has been requested multiple times, usually following a notable errata. And each time the following point must be made:
D&D Beyond is obligated by their relationship with Wizards of the Coast to provide official content as dictated by WotC, including any errata
Definitely understood (and upvoted), DnD Beyond isn't WOTC and is only a provider.
However, the past errata made vast, sweeping changes to already existing books, and if any of the leaked racial changes are true, we are going to lose tons of functionality including entire character traits at once, the Kobold being an example of being so changed as to barely resemble its current incarnation.
If something can't be worked out to allow previous versions to be used, we're losing functionality mid-game or mid-campaign for a lot of players and DMs like myself that rely on DnD Beyond, and we will have to resort to other sources to continue using what we wanted. I'm already discouraged from buying old books from DnD Beyond because there's no guarantee the eraser won't get taken to whole paragraphs of the book at a time, or character functionality from said book.
If no such ability comes, I'm probably no longer going to use DnD Beyond for my games.
This is something that has been requested multiple times, usually following a notable errata. And each time the following point must be made:
D&D Beyond is obligated by their relationship with Wizards of the Coast to provide official content as dictated by WotC, including any errata
Definitely understood (and upvoted), DnD Beyond isn't WOTC and is only a provider.
However, the past errata made vast, sweeping changes to already existing books, and if any of the leaked racial changes are true, we are going to lose tons of functionality including entire character traits at once, the Kobold being an example of being so changed as to barely resemble its current incarnation.
If something can't be worked out to allow previous versions to be used, we're losing functionality mid-game or mid-campaign for a lot of players and DMs like myself that rely on DnD Beyond, and we will have to resort to other sources to continue using what we wanted. I'm already discouraged from buying old books from DnD Beyond because there's no guarantee the eraser won't get taken to whole paragraphs of the book at a time, or character functionality from said book.
If no such ability comes, I'm probably no longer going to use DnD Beyond for my games.
Ultimately, this is a problem with WotC, and their agreement in place with DnD Beyond. It would be one thing if DnD Beyond were allowed to preserve previous versions of races and such (like being able to download, or downgrade to prior versions of a video game), and that would be easy, what with them being a compendium of information. They already have support for variant races in place, they'd just need to use a similar framework to that.
Clearly, though, WotC feels it's okay to just change that information as they see fit, or completely nullify it on a whim, when much of that information is what people are using to run current games, or plan future ones. The agreement they chose to enter was one that put them in a situation where the site has to abide by WotC's decisions to erase or change whole features.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the fact that entire races, and game features can just disappear from books and sites one day really just makes D&D as a whole feel like an unstable format to use for ongoing games that don't rely much on homebrew, and needing to go out of your way to homebrew something back into your character, or campaign that was once a feature, but isn't one anymore, just feels like WotC is telling you that "we think the game you want to play is suboptimal, we've decided this one is better, and if you don't like it, you can take your toys and go somewhere else".
I really hope the original books are preserved, and not removed via errata. This direction WotC is taking lately is starting to get really upsetting, and, honestly, as a person who has played big, ongoing video games for most of his life, unsettlingly familiar.
The way D&D Beyond has handled changes to character options in the past has primarily been to archive the older version and create the new version as a separate entity so that existing characters using the old version are unaffected. Players also have the option to make copies of races and keep them as personal homebrew options.
While you are obligated via contract to provide the official content including errata, is there anything preventing you from providing to your paying customers that do not want a book at their table. Or only want certain options available. Example being if I’m running a Core Book Only (PHB/DMG/MM) game I do not want changes to other books that my players may or may not have access to.
While I’ll buy the new book, I may not want to use it. Will this be an option or is it going to go through and change throughout. Example Lizardfolk according to leaks is losing the Artisan ability, I’ve built an entire RP persona for one based on that trait. So I do not want that at my table. I want the ability to choose what version I want to use. Program wise it is very easy to do, you just have an additional entry on your tables you use.
I think it would be nice if they at least had someplace that listed the changes for each book each time they make a change.. I hate getting book updates and not knowing what they’ve changed.. basically a changelog for updates to material
I'm of the mindset that more options are better. I would love to be able to see prior versions of a book we have purchased via DnD Beyond. I would even like to see that extend to character creation so that players can choose the version they would like to use. I understand that this can be accomplished via homebrew and if that is the case I would love to see the old "official" backgrounds, feats, magic items, monsters, races, spells, subclasses, etc as options. It would be best if these were all managed by the same account so that it would be easily searchable.
I really hate when they nerf Player options. This is not a competitive game, if players want to play as OP races don't take options away from them. New versions should be Variants. I already pre-ordered the book before I found out the changes and I honestly wish I had not now if they replace my older content
And the other point is that if paid for the older book, you should have it more or less in perpetuity. Unless WOTC/DDB want to buy back the old books….
This has been resolved. Volo's and Tome of Foes are still available to people who had already purchased those books. Races from them are still available in the Character builder but they are labeled as "Legacy" content to clearly differentiate them from the Monsters of the Multiverse versions.
This thread isn't about the Volo and Mord's delisting and legacy access. The post, particularly the one that necro'd this thread is talking about folks wanting the edition/printing of the book at the time they purchased it with no "errata." Folks started fuming on this front for example when Volo's lost their negative race modifiers over a year back I think and the lore excisions that took place, last fall.
The necromancer seems to be unaware or disregarding DDB's support of the "present text" of any given title, and wants to assert an entitlement to the text pre-revisions. It's a way of thinking and wanting, but it is not reflective of the way things are.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
And the other point is that if paid for the older book, you should have it more or less in perpetuity. Unless WOTC/DDB want to buy back the old books….
You did not pay for the older book though. You paid for the most recent, official version of the books. This is actually a major selling-point of using DDB in my opinion - you will always have the most recent versions and will never have to pay extra to have the most recent, official versions of purchased content.
No argument there, Erik - I'm not talking about errata. But If, for example you purchased Volo's GTM, you should have access to Volo's GTM, even if WOTC no longer considers it official. And it appear ths is how DDB/WOTC are treating it too, by marking it as legacy content....
No argument there, Erik - I'm not talking about errata. But If, for example you purchased Volo's GTM, you should have access to Volo's GTM, even if WOTC no longer considers it official. And it appear ths is how DDB/WOTC are treating it too, by marking it as legacy content....
And the other point is that if paid for the older book, you should have it more or less in perpetuity. Unless WOTC/DDB want to buy back the old books….
So when you posted you were already aware users who bought Volo's and Tome of Foe's have access to their purchases? Then what was the point to raising this thread? I mean the thread was started about getting access to pre-errata. Months later you say users should have de-listed books into perpetuity, which is what is present practice ... so?
I apologize for troubling you with my comments. . I was responding to the moderator's initial comment that DDB's license with WOTC only permitted them to provide the current official versions. It appears as if WOTC is going to keep making "legacy" content available. I just hope they continue this practice...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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When it comes to errata/changes, DnD Beyond as a company seems to be quick on the update to adjust their digital products to match newer additions or clarifications. This is entirely fine, in normal circumstances, however I have begun noticing certain aspects of books I have purchased and used in the past that are now changed away from when I bought them in the first place. Changes such as to remove a -1 to a Kobold's strength score, or the removal of some (what is considered now) problematic lore on a particular beast/species. If there were patch notes available to see on a book that I've purchased in the past or some way to reroll the update to a prior edition, it would alleviate concerns or problems that might occur when it comes to player options if said options are changed.
We know a book with many of the currently purchasable races is coming available in the upcoming gift set. If that new book changes a race, I would especially like to be able to pick the previous version of that race in the character builder without any incidents. I already have access to 4 types of Orcs via the builder. Just give me the original versions in addition to the one in a newer book that comes out instead of replacing the old statistics with the new ones. I'd be a little miffed if suddenly a large aspect of my racial bonuses suddenly disappears from my character sheet between sessions.
I second this. We know a big change is coming for Kobolds specifically, and if WotC is phasing out the version of Kobolds in Volo's Guide to Monsters, we who like that version of Kobolds would like to see it still be supported, perhaps as the Classic/Volo's variant Kobold in your character creation tool.
Thirded. It seems weird to me that they would change rules for characters we might already be using for a campaign and then suddenly have their stats or abilities change that we are used to.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
This is something that has been requested multiple times, usually following a notable errata. And each time the following point must be made:
D&D Beyond is obligated by their relationship with Wizards of the Coast to provide official content as dictated by WotC, including any errata
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Understood, but how will this apply to "Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse" when it's released as an individual book? There won't be a reason to buy the book if stat blocks are updated as errata.
How Monsters of the Multiverse will be handled on D&D Beyond has not been announced at this time.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Fourthed.
Definitely understood (and upvoted), DnD Beyond isn't WOTC and is only a provider.
However, the past errata made vast, sweeping changes to already existing books, and if any of the leaked racial changes are true, we are going to lose tons of functionality including entire character traits at once, the Kobold being an example of being so changed as to barely resemble its current incarnation.
If something can't be worked out to allow previous versions to be used, we're losing functionality mid-game or mid-campaign for a lot of players and DMs like myself that rely on DnD Beyond, and we will have to resort to other sources to continue using what we wanted. I'm already discouraged from buying old books from DnD Beyond because there's no guarantee the eraser won't get taken to whole paragraphs of the book at a time, or character functionality from said book.
If no such ability comes, I'm probably no longer going to use DnD Beyond for my games.
#OpenDnD
Ultimately, this is a problem with WotC, and their agreement in place with DnD Beyond. It would be one thing if DnD Beyond were allowed to preserve previous versions of races and such (like being able to download, or downgrade to prior versions of a video game), and that would be easy, what with them being a compendium of information. They already have support for variant races in place, they'd just need to use a similar framework to that.
Clearly, though, WotC feels it's okay to just change that information as they see fit, or completely nullify it on a whim, when much of that information is what people are using to run current games, or plan future ones. The agreement they chose to enter was one that put them in a situation where the site has to abide by WotC's decisions to erase or change whole features.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the fact that entire races, and game features can just disappear from books and sites one day really just makes D&D as a whole feel like an unstable format to use for ongoing games that don't rely much on homebrew, and needing to go out of your way to homebrew something back into your character, or campaign that was once a feature, but isn't one anymore, just feels like WotC is telling you that "we think the game you want to play is suboptimal, we've decided this one is better, and if you don't like it, you can take your toys and go somewhere else".
I really hope the original books are preserved, and not removed via errata. This direction WotC is taking lately is starting to get really upsetting, and, honestly, as a person who has played big, ongoing video games for most of his life, unsettlingly familiar.
The way D&D Beyond has handled changes to character options in the past has primarily been to archive the older version and create the new version as a separate entity so that existing characters using the old version are unaffected. Players also have the option to make copies of races and keep them as personal homebrew options.
While you are obligated via contract to provide the official content including errata, is there anything preventing you from providing to your paying customers that do not want a book at their table. Or only want certain options available.
Example being if I’m running a Core Book Only (PHB/DMG/MM) game I do not want changes to other books that my players may or may not have access to.
While I’ll buy the new book, I may not want to use it. Will this be an option or is it going to go through and change throughout.
Example Lizardfolk according to leaks is losing the Artisan ability, I’ve built an entire RP persona for one based on that trait. So I do not want that at my table.
I want the ability to choose what version I want to use. Program wise it is very easy to do, you just have an additional entry on your tables you use.
I think it would be nice if they at least had someplace that listed the changes for each book each time they make a change.. I hate getting book updates and not knowing what they’ve changed.. basically a changelog for updates to material
I'm of the mindset that more options are better. I would love to be able to see prior versions of a book we have purchased via DnD Beyond. I would even like to see that extend to character creation so that players can choose the version they would like to use. I understand that this can be accomplished via homebrew and if that is the case I would love to see the old "official" backgrounds, feats, magic items, monsters, races, spells, subclasses, etc as options. It would be best if these were all managed by the same account so that it would be easily searchable.
I really hate when they nerf Player options. This is not a competitive game, if players want to play as OP races don't take options away from them. New versions should be Variants. I already pre-ordered the book before I found out the changes and I honestly wish I had not now if they replace my older content
And the other point is that if paid for the older book, you should have it more or less in perpetuity. Unless WOTC/DDB want to buy back the old books….
This has been resolved. Volo's and Tome of Foes are still available to people who had already purchased those books. Races from them are still available in the Character builder but they are labeled as "Legacy" content to clearly differentiate them from the Monsters of the Multiverse versions.
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This thread isn't about the Volo and Mord's delisting and legacy access. The post, particularly the one that necro'd this thread is talking about folks wanting the edition/printing of the book at the time they purchased it with no "errata." Folks started fuming on this front for example when Volo's lost their negative race modifiers over a year back I think and the lore excisions that took place, last fall.
The necromancer seems to be unaware or disregarding DDB's support of the "present text" of any given title, and wants to assert an entitlement to the text pre-revisions. It's a way of thinking and wanting, but it is not reflective of the way things are.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You did not pay for the older book though. You paid for the most recent, official version of the books. This is actually a major selling-point of using DDB in my opinion - you will always have the most recent versions and will never have to pay extra to have the most recent, official versions of purchased content.
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No argument there, Erik - I'm not talking about errata. But If, for example you purchased Volo's GTM, you should have access to Volo's GTM, even if WOTC no longer considers it official. And it appear ths is how DDB/WOTC are treating it too, by marking it as legacy content....
I'm confused what you mean by this then:
So when you posted you were already aware users who bought Volo's and Tome of Foe's have access to their purchases? Then what was the point to raising this thread? I mean the thread was started about getting access to pre-errata. Months later you say users should have de-listed books into perpetuity, which is what is present practice ... so?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I apologize for troubling you with my comments. . I was responding to the moderator's initial comment that DDB's license with WOTC only permitted them to provide the current official versions. It appears as if WOTC is going to keep making "legacy" content available. I just hope they continue this practice...