"You can recognize any member of the City Watch by the uniform: a green-and-goldenrod doublet and a tall steel helmet. Each typically carries a long truncheon, a dagger, and a buckler. Because most citizens in Waterdeep don’t bear weapons, these tools prove a more than ample deterrent to criminal activity."
SO COOL! Ok so my Character wants a buckler. However, I cannot find it in the equipment lists for purchase. Nor the DMs resources to spell out how it would work for game mechanics. While we're at it, I'll take a long truncheon as well.
Mechanically, 5e doesn't distinguish between shield types. A tall wall-style shield is exactly as functional as a hand-held buckler. A truncheon is, mechanically, a Club.
The designers chose to list all weapons as generic catch-alls and leaves anything beyond that up to flavoring. I guess it saves ink when printing the table of available weapons.
Bucklers aren't a thing mechanically in D&D 5e....its not that it exists and you can't purchase it, it's that it doesn't exist. The standard shield is a standalone item, there are no different "types" of shield (barring certain magic items of course).
Likewise, truncheons don't exist (or do so as a type of club without any mechanical difference)
As has been stated, "buckler" is not distinguished from any other shield in 5e.
Easy homebrew (quoting myself from an earlier thread):
The most straightforward way to put a buckler in D&D would be a shield that grants +1 AC, that can be "drawn," put away, or dropped with the same speed as a weapon. It would also weigh less. Perhaps it could be disarmed like a weapon, as well (not sure if that's realistic, but it's gameable).
I feel like those drawbacks (less AC, maybe disarmable) outweigh the game benefits (lighter, faster to draw etc), which is why the designers didn't consider it worth a stat line. Other systems with more melee detail can get away with it.
Bucklers don't provide a passive AC. A buckler is specifically designed as a parrying shield, making it just a slightly weaker regular shield makes no sense. So give it a Parry effect. Bucklers, in the games my table plays, gives you the ability to use the 'Parrying' reaction mechanic from Defensive Duelist, i.e. use your reaction to add your proficiency to your AC against a melee attack you can see coming. It's a lot less useful than a regular +2 to AC, but it also models bucklers well enough to make them a distinct piece of equipment worth actually having around. Our table's had a lot of fun with it, actually. Gives buckler (or parrying dagger/main gauche) users something cool to do with their reaction and makes them feel a little more like a proper duelist.
Bucklers don't provide a passive AC. A buckler is specifically designed as a parrying shield
In my experience, that's not always true. (And a +1 AC shield is a convenient gap to fill...)
Bucklers, in the games my table plays, gives you the ability to use the 'Parrying' reaction mechanic from Defensive Duelist
I get it, but I'm kinda "meh" about it, because it steps on the feat. I would totally let a buckler qualify (if you were pairing it with a non-finesse weapon or something) for using the feat.
Bucklers aren't a thing mechanically in D&D 5e....its not that it exists and you can't purchase it, it's that it doesn't exist. The standard shield is a standalone item, there are no different "types" of shield (barring certain magic items of course).
Likewise, truncheons don't exist (or do so as a type of club without any mechanical difference)
Yes and no.
A buckler is a type of shield, and shields exist in D&D, so a buckler exists mechanically as a shield, and so does a tower shield.
A truncheon is a type of l club, and clubs exist in D&D, so a truncheon exists mechanically as a club, and so does a cudgel.
Those all exist mechanically, they are just not specifically named or else the weapons list would be 3-5 pages long and most of them would be the same things with different names.
The only things there is no analog for that I have thought of are Arming Swords and cut-and-thrust weapons such as a backsword. But that’s because the way they structured the weapons array, an Arming Sword would have to end up as mechanically inferior to both the Rapier and Longsword (1d8 slashing no properties), so nobody would take it (like tridents), and a Backsword would likewise render both Shortswords and Scimitars obsolete as well since it would have to be 1d6 with finesse and you could choose between the two damage types.
The Parrying mechanics at my table do indeed step on the Defensive Duelist feat. That's because Defensive Duelist is hot steaming moose urine. It's one of the worst feats in all of D&D,nobody should ever take it, and we've all agreed that implementing parrying as a thing specific tools do if one is trained in their use is a better fit for our game, and likely most every game. Because really - who ever feels good taking Defensive Duelist as a feat without any futzing?
Mechanically, 5e doesn't distinguish between shield types. A tall wall-style shield is exactly as functional as a hand-held buckler. A truncheon is, mechanically, a Club.
The designers chose to list all weapons as generic catch-alls and leaves anything beyond that up to flavoring. I guess it saves ink when printing the table of available weapons.
1) You're right. You're 100% right.
2) Then why are scimitars a thing? Okay, that's actually just my own personal rage at the equipment list. It's the second worst part of the PHB.
@Yurei: At my table, Bucklers allow you to use your reaction to gain a bonus to your AC equal to your dex mod until end of turn... but ultimately it's the same mechanic.
@RubixCubed: We also have a Palvis which gives the shieldly +2AC and as an action can be planted, providing cover, which is great for archer and crossbowmen.
There's a reason Parrying only works against a single attack at our table. Your version, on a high dex character, is basically a free Shield spell every turn. That's pretty massive, and not great for interclass balance. Especially if it can be had for five gold pieces and a shield proficiency.
Parry works against a single attack, from a creature your size or smaller. Usually a melee attack only. It's actually a pretty restrictive reaction, offset by being available to almost every class for very little investment.
I just added our table's special shields in Homebrew.
If you look up items by me, you'll find our Buckler, Hoplon, and Pavise. Maybe when I'm at a computer I'll pretty them up a bit with pictures and the like.
"You can recognize any member of the City Watch by the uniform: a green-and-goldenrod doublet and a tall steel helmet. Each typically carries a long truncheon, a dagger, and a buckler. Because most citizens in Waterdeep don’t bear weapons, these tools prove a more than ample deterrent to criminal activity."
SO COOL! Ok so my Character wants a buckler. However, I cannot find it in the equipment lists for purchase.
The equipment lists also don't include "uniform", "doublet" and "helmet" (at least as individual items) but you didn't pick on those. :-)
The book is just a fancy way of saying "the guards wear padded armour and a shield, and carry a dagger and a club."
My point is, if it is "official", and mentioned, it shouldn't be up to players and GMs to make it up on the fly.
But it is only "official" in description. The SCAG does not provide new equipment.
D&D is a game of imagination, the whole point to to be able to make unique characters. But why have 250 different light thrown weapons that do 1d4 damage? Make a dagger and if someone wants to make it look different - cool - but the book doesn't need to be full of these uniques.
And again - by the books you are officially allowed to make the equipment look the way you want. So really you are complaining about the lack of convenience on the online builder, but D&D was made as a pen and paper game.
Hate to break it to you, but if you don't like PCs and DMs making things up on the fly...... D&D is not the game for you.
My point is, if it is "official", and mentioned, it shouldn't be up to players and GMs to make it up on the fly.
Nobody has to make anything up “on the fly.” The DM should pre-read the adventure, and should also re-read the next portion the players are doing to prepare for the next session. If the DM does know what a truncheon is, they should look it up and go “Oh, it’s a type of club. I wonder what a buckler is. Oh that’s a type of shield.” Then, as they read that part to their players, if someone asks what a truncheon is or if a buckler is in any mechanical different from other shields, the DM has answers ready. It should never be “on the fly,” DMs should be prepared.
To be fair, I wouldn't blame a DM for not realizing they would need extensive knowledge of every single term in a book. Most players either wouldn't care what a truncheon and buckler are or would already know. There is absolutely such a thing as overpreparation. But this is also the sort of thing I imagine most DMs would have a clue about with their groups in the first place. Do they have any HEMA people, or other medieval weapons nerds? Any folks with a history of getting deep into the weeds of itemization in video games? Other warning signs that any particular piece of kit had best have an answer? That may be a Session Zero issue, something for the table to sort ahead of time.
The Parrying mechanics at my table do indeed step on the Defensive Duelist feat. That's because Defensive Duelist is hot steaming moose urine. It's one of the worst feats in all of D&D,nobody should ever take it, and we've all agreed that implementing parrying as a thing specific tools do if one is trained in their use is a better fit for our game, and likely most every game. Because really - who ever feels good taking Defensive Duelist as a feat without any futzing?
If you can know what the roll was before deciding to use it it's not that bad at higher levels, but the fact it's a variable bonus instead of something like a static +5 means it's really dumb at low levels.
To be fair, I wouldn't blame a DM for not realizing they would need extensive knowledge of every single term in a book. Most players either wouldn't care what a truncheon and buckler are or would already know. There is absolutely such a thing as overpreparation. But this is also the sort of thing I imagine most DMs would have a clue about with their groups in the first place. Do they have any HEMA people, or other medieval weapons nerds? Any folks with a history of getting deep into the weeds of itemization in video games? Other warning signs that any particular piece of kit had best have an answer? That may be a Session Zero issue, something for the table to sort ahead of time.
I think that's a good point. Even with the knowledge that all shields are just shields in base 5e, the word "Buckler" could mean anything if you don't know that it's the name of a particular style of shield.
So, as i understand it, if it is IN the online 5e literature, it should be useable, right?
My example is this: on the page:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/wdh/volos-waterdeep-enchiridion#CityWatch
"You can recognize any member of the City Watch by the uniform: a green-and-goldenrod doublet and a tall steel helmet. Each typically carries a long truncheon, a dagger, and a buckler. Because most citizens in Waterdeep don’t bear weapons, these tools prove a more than ample deterrent to criminal activity."
SO COOL! Ok so my Character wants a buckler. However, I cannot find it in the equipment lists for purchase. Nor the DMs resources to spell out how it would work for game mechanics.
While we're at it, I'll take a long truncheon as well.
Mechanically, 5e doesn't distinguish between shield types. A tall wall-style shield is exactly as functional as a hand-held buckler. A truncheon is, mechanically, a Club.
The designers chose to list all weapons as generic catch-alls and leaves anything beyond that up to flavoring. I guess it saves ink when printing the table of available weapons.
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Bucklers aren't a thing mechanically in D&D 5e....its not that it exists and you can't purchase it, it's that it doesn't exist. The standard shield is a standalone item, there are no different "types" of shield (barring certain magic items of course).
Likewise, truncheons don't exist (or do so as a type of club without any mechanical difference)
As has been stated, "buckler" is not distinguished from any other shield in 5e.
Easy homebrew (quoting myself from an earlier thread):
The most straightforward way to put a buckler in D&D would be a shield that grants +1 AC, that can be "drawn," put away, or dropped with the same speed as a weapon. It would also weigh less. Perhaps it could be disarmed like a weapon, as well (not sure if that's realistic, but it's gameable).
I feel like those drawbacks (less AC, maybe disarmable) outweigh the game benefits (lighter, faster to draw etc), which is why the designers didn't consider it worth a stat line. Other systems with more melee detail can get away with it.
Bucklers don't provide a passive AC. A buckler is specifically designed as a parrying shield, making it just a slightly weaker regular shield makes no sense. So give it a Parry effect. Bucklers, in the games my table plays, gives you the ability to use the 'Parrying' reaction mechanic from Defensive Duelist, i.e. use your reaction to add your proficiency to your AC against a melee attack you can see coming. It's a lot less useful than a regular +2 to AC, but it also models bucklers well enough to make them a distinct piece of equipment worth actually having around. Our table's had a lot of fun with it, actually. Gives buckler (or parrying dagger/main gauche) users something cool to do with their reaction and makes them feel a little more like a proper duelist.
Please do not contact or message me.
In my experience, that's not always true. (And a +1 AC shield is a convenient gap to fill...)
I get it, but I'm kinda "meh" about it, because it steps on the feat. I would totally let a buckler qualify (if you were pairing it with a non-finesse weapon or something) for using the feat.
Yes and no.
A buckler is a type of shield, and shields exist in D&D, so a buckler exists mechanically as a shield, and so does a tower shield.
A truncheon is a type of l club, and clubs exist in D&D, so a truncheon exists mechanically as a club, and so does a cudgel.
Just like a katana, flamberge, and a side sword.
Those all exist mechanically, they are just not specifically named or else the weapons list would be 3-5 pages long and most of them would be the same things with different names.
The only things there is no analog for that I have thought of are Arming Swords and cut-and-thrust weapons such as a backsword. But that’s because the way they structured the weapons array, an Arming Sword would have to end up as mechanically inferior to both the Rapier and Longsword (1d8 slashing no properties), so nobody would take it (like tridents), and a Backsword would likewise render both Shortswords and Scimitars obsolete as well since it would have to be 1d6 with finesse and you could choose between the two damage types.
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The Parrying mechanics at my table do indeed step on the Defensive Duelist feat. That's because Defensive Duelist is hot steaming moose urine. It's one of the worst feats in all of D&D, nobody should ever take it, and we've all agreed that implementing parrying as a thing specific tools do if one is trained in their use is a better fit for our game, and likely most every game. Because really - who ever feels good taking Defensive Duelist as a feat without any futzing?
Please do not contact or message me.
1) You're right. You're 100% right.
2) Then why are scimitars a thing? Okay, that's actually just my own personal rage at the equipment list. It's the second worst part of the PHB.
@Yurei: At my table, Bucklers allow you to use your reaction to gain a bonus to your AC equal to your dex mod until end of turn... but ultimately it's the same mechanic.
@RubixCubed: We also have a Palvis which gives the shieldly +2AC and as an action can be planted, providing cover, which is great for archer and crossbowmen.
There's a reason Parrying only works against a single attack at our table. Your version, on a high dex character, is basically a free Shield spell every turn. That's pretty massive, and not great for interclass balance. Especially if it can be had for five gold pieces and a shield proficiency.
Please do not contact or message me.
You do it for the one roll too, eh? Not from a single source, nor all enemies.
Parry works against a single attack, from a creature your size or smaller. Usually a melee attack only. It's actually a pretty restrictive reaction, offset by being available to almost every class for very little investment.
Please do not contact or message me.
I just added our table's special shields in Homebrew.
If you look up items by me, you'll find our Buckler, Hoplon, and Pavise. Maybe when I'm at a computer I'll pretty them up a bit with pictures and the like.
The equipment lists also don't include "uniform", "doublet" and "helmet" (at least as individual items) but you didn't pick on those. :-)
The book is just a fancy way of saying "the guards wear padded armour and a shield, and carry a dagger and a club."
My point is, if it is "official", and mentioned, it shouldn't be up to players and GMs to make it up on the fly.
But it is only "official" in description. The SCAG does not provide new equipment.
D&D is a game of imagination, the whole point to to be able to make unique characters. But why have 250 different light thrown weapons that do 1d4 damage? Make a dagger and if someone wants to make it look different - cool - but the book doesn't need to be full of these uniques.
And again - by the books you are officially allowed to make the equipment look the way you want. So really you are complaining about the lack of convenience on the online builder, but D&D was made as a pen and paper game.
Hate to break it to you, but if you don't like PCs and DMs making things up on the fly...... D&D is not the game for you.
Nobody has to make anything up “on the fly.” The DM should pre-read the adventure, and should also re-read the next portion the players are doing to prepare for the next session. If the DM does know what a truncheon is, they should look it up and go “Oh, it’s a type of club. I wonder what a buckler is. Oh that’s a type of shield.” Then, as they read that part to their players, if someone asks what a truncheon is or if a buckler is in any mechanical different from other shields, the DM has answers ready. It should never be “on the fly,” DMs should be prepared.
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To be fair, I wouldn't blame a DM for not realizing they would need extensive knowledge of every single term in a book. Most players either wouldn't care what a truncheon and buckler are or would already know. There is absolutely such a thing as overpreparation. But this is also the sort of thing I imagine most DMs would have a clue about with their groups in the first place. Do they have any HEMA people, or other medieval weapons nerds? Any folks with a history of getting deep into the weeds of itemization in video games? Other warning signs that any particular piece of kit had best have an answer? That may be a Session Zero issue, something for the table to sort ahead of time.
Please do not contact or message me.
If you can know what the roll was before deciding to use it it's not that bad at higher levels, but the fact it's a variable bonus instead of something like a static +5 means it's really dumb at low levels.
I think that's a good point. Even with the knowledge that all shields are just shields in base 5e, the word "Buckler" could mean anything if you don't know that it's the name of a particular style of shield.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium