I'm having a good natured discussion with my group about Feline Agility and Haste.
We have a Tabaxi Rogue who took the Mobile feet, which grants 40 feet of movement. Lets say the Ranger cats Longstrider on him to make it 50 feet of movement. I was thinking the numbers would work out to 50x2 (Feline) = 100......100x2 (Haste) = 200.
A couple of guys think that the old D&D multiplier system is in play (3.5 rules), saying that it should be 50 x [1 + (2 - 1) + (2 - 1)] for a max speed of 150 feet.
Which one is it? References to Sage Advice or published Books would be appreciated.
I'm having a good natured discussion with my group about Feline Agility and Haste.
We have a Tabaxi Rogue who took the Mobile feet, which grants 40 feet of movement. Lets say the Ranger cats Longstrider on him to make it 50 feet of movement. I was thinking the numbers would work out to 50x2 (Feline) = 100......100x2 (Haste) = 200.
A couple of guys think that the old D&D multiplier system is in play (3.5 rules), saying that it should be 50 x [1 + (2 - 1) + (2 - 1)] for a max speed of 150 feet.
Which one is it? References to Sage Advice or published Books would be appreciated.
There's no RAW explicitly covering order of operations that I know of. I believe the general assumption is that, as a result, effects apply in the order they're applied. Since the feat was taken prior to any spells here, it should happen first Feline Agility is happening last, so it happens last. Longstrider and Haste are unclear. But 150 shouldn't happen - that sort of math only comes up when you start taking the Dash action, because it's multiple additions rather than multiplication.
So, longstrider then haste:
(((30+10)+10)*2)*2 = 200
Haste then longstrider:
(((30+10)*2)+10)*2 = 180
If you apply PEMDAS (which is not a 5E rule):
30*2*2+10+10 = 140
Reverse PEMDAS is also not a rule, but would get you the same as longstrider before haste (200).
Xanathar's p77 could be interpreted, I suppose, to mean the Tabaxi chooses, if you assumed all other effects are simultaneous, because Feline Agility only happens on-turn. That interpretation would also get you 200.
There is not anything in the DMG, PHB, nor SAC that I can find that deals with order of operations, so I personally rule in favor of my players and do all the additions first and then do all the multiplications, as that will result in the highest movement speed. In my opinion, having high speed is not a huge deal in most cases, and if sorcerers and wizards can fling Fireballs and bend reality with Wish, letting rogues go brrr around the world in 80 days helps them feel a bit more special.
Then you've increased your standard to 40ft with the feat. 40 is your new base speed. After that, it depends on whether stacking is allowed.
If it is, then I'd go with the order of activation. If longstrider was cast on him first, then you did Feline Agility, then haste, then it would be 40+10=50, 50*2=100, 100*2=200. If it was done last,.then 40*2=80, 80*2=160, 160+10=170, etc.
Assuming that haste had already been cast on a previous round or turn and presumably so has longstrider, I'd go forward like this:
Base of 40.
If haste was cast first, 40*2=80, 80+10=90, then you double for feline agility 90*2=180.
If longstrider was cast first, 40+10=50, 50*2=100, the feline agility so 100*2=200.
On the other hand, it may be like temporary HP and you just get the greatest value. It depends on how powerful being able to move 200ft in a turn would be as to which I'd rule.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
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I'm having a good natured discussion with my group about Feline Agility and Haste.
We have a Tabaxi Rogue who took the Mobile feet, which grants 40 feet of movement. Lets say the Ranger cats Longstrider on him to make it 50 feet of movement. I was thinking the numbers would work out to 50x2 (Feline) = 100......100x2 (Haste) = 200.
A couple of guys think that the old D&D multiplier system is in play (3.5 rules), saying that it should be 50 x [1 + (2 - 1) + (2 - 1)] for a max speed of 150 feet.
Which one is it? References to Sage Advice or published Books would be appreciated.
The "old" system is not in any of the 5e rulebooks, so you go with the plain language. Double means double, so it's 200 feet.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
There's no RAW explicitly covering order of operations that I know of. I believe the general assumption is that, as a result, effects apply in the order they're applied. Since the feat was taken prior to any spells here, it should happen first Feline Agility is happening last, so it happens last. Longstrider and Haste are unclear. But 150 shouldn't happen - that sort of math only comes up when you start taking the Dash action, because it's multiple additions rather than multiplication.
So, longstrider then haste:
(((30+10)+10)*2)*2 = 200
Haste then longstrider:
(((30+10)*2)+10)*2 = 180
If you apply PEMDAS (which is not a 5E rule):
30*2*2+10+10 = 140
Reverse PEMDAS is also not a rule, but would get you the same as longstrider before haste (200).
Xanathar's p77 could be interpreted, I suppose, to mean the Tabaxi chooses, if you assumed all other effects are simultaneous, because Feline Agility only happens on-turn. That interpretation would also get you 200.
There is not anything in the DMG, PHB, nor SAC that I can find that deals with order of operations, so I personally rule in favor of my players and do all the additions first and then do all the multiplications, as that will result in the highest movement speed. In my opinion, having high speed is not a huge deal in most cases, and if sorcerers and wizards can fling Fireballs and bend reality with Wish, letting rogues go brrr around the world in 80 days helps them feel a bit more special.
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My call woukd be:
So, you start with your base speed - 30ft.
Then you've increased your standard to 40ft with the feat. 40 is your new base speed. After that, it depends on whether stacking is allowed.
If it is, then I'd go with the order of activation. If longstrider was cast on him first, then you did Feline Agility, then haste, then it would be 40+10=50, 50*2=100, 100*2=200. If it was done last,.then 40*2=80, 80*2=160, 160+10=170, etc.
Assuming that haste had already been cast on a previous round or turn and presumably so has longstrider, I'd go forward like this:
Base of 40.
If haste was cast first, 40*2=80, 80+10=90, then you double for feline agility 90*2=180.
If longstrider was cast first, 40+10=50, 50*2=100, the feline agility so 100*2=200.
On the other hand, it may be like temporary HP and you just get the greatest value. It depends on how powerful being able to move 200ft in a turn would be as to which I'd rule.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.