There really isn't an aspect of D&D that doesn't lend itself to anthropomorphizing, except maybe aberrations, and even then their poster boy Xanathar is very easily understood on human terms.
For Dragons, I like the new (to me) lore expansion of Dragonsight to be a mix of multidimensional "I can see for mile and miles" and an identity with draconic echoes of "I am he, as you are he and you are me and we are all together..." because I was sorta running with that idea anyway before the book even came out. But there are plenty of fictions out there were Dragons are very readily understood personalities in human (and sometimes even dimunitive ,... like say cats) terms. If Dragons are more like the Biblical leviathan or whirlwind in your game, sure probably not very playable, but as a DM every one shot I do is not necessarily consistent with what I consider my main game world, so I could see myself trying it if a particular story seemed compelling. Again, if DDB can do it, so can you!*
*honestly I thought the one shot for familiars was better, I think maybe because the party was diverse rather than mono-species.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
One of my earliest attempts to plot a fantasy adventure game involved monsters who rebel against the dark lord: zombie wizards, skeleton barbarians, slime druids, and dragon paladins. It's fun to play as the bad guys, whether as a monster with a heart of gold or in an evil campaign. It opens up a bunch of new races.
However for D&D, I think dragonborn already takes the desired attributes of dragons and makes them balanced for a player character. Its got the breath weapon. It's got the elemental resistance. I think all one might wish for is flight. A house rule race variant with flight can probably be permitted at the DM's discretion, perhaps by giving up the resistance.
When someone tells me they want to play a dragon, I tell them there is an easy, totally legal way to play a dragon. DM your own game and I'll be happy to roll up a player for it.
I would imagine dragon roleplay to be very much like the political intrigue and machinations of Vampire: The Masquerade, except you're far more beholden to yourself than an organisation or bloodline. I view it as that sort of post-levelling content, where you're so immensely powerful you're playing a whole other game to the typical D&D adventure. A dragon meeting their match in the short term would either face an army or a crack unit of adventurers, but playing the long game - which I think dragon gaming would be best suited for - is with other dragons and beasties of equal wit and strength. I would also want to control subordinate cults and world leaders to further my aims, again, something that I don't believe is really covered in this game.
Ultimately the more I think about roleplaying a dragon as a player rather than DM, the more I'd rather just play a game better suited for it.
The kind of roleplay you're talking about - having your own cults - is better suited to playing as the DM.
Wasn't Birthright sorta Vamp the Masq sort of "politcs and intrigue" but with Dragons? In fact chronologically VtM might've been Birthright but with Vampires? I don't remember the timeline well actually never heard of Birthright till it popped up on this forum once. In fact I'm not sure if I'm getting Birthright mixed up with a different you play the Dragon D&D setting. Like Wyrmspire or something like that?
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would imagine dragon roleplay to be very much like the political intrigue and machinations of Vampire: The Masquerade, except you're far more beholden to yourself than an organisation or bloodline. I view it as that sort of post-levelling content, where you're so immensely powerful you're playing a whole other game to the typical D&D adventure. A dragon meeting their match in the short term would either face an army or a crack unit of adventurers, but playing the long game - which I think dragon gaming would be best suited for - is with other dragons and beasties of equal wit and strength. I would also want to control subordinate cults and world leaders to further my aims, again, something that I don't believe is really covered in this game.
Ultimately the more I think about roleplaying a dragon as a player rather than DM, the more I'd rather just play a game better suited for it.
The kind of roleplay you're talking about - having your own cults - is better suited to playing as the DM.
True enough, but - and this is based on zero experience whatsoever - I'd get overindulgent in that and would bore my players with how powerful I've made my character and their abilities. I don't trust myself enough to DM by respecting the players and their characters, hence why I'd prefer an arbiter such as a DM to rein me in and set parameters. I could instead cut out the players and write a book about it but then it'd be self-indulgent power fantasy, and once again I'd get bored because there's no-one there to stop me spiralling things out of control.
Even as a player one of my first characters during his creation had the goal of starting a cult (I don't know why I'm obsessed with the idea), but then I thought: how am I going to get the opportunity to do this, and is the party really going to be fine with this? Unless the adventure had the explicit purpose of that or my party is willing to let me do this without much objection for how time-consuming I'll make it, then... no. So you're right: either DM, or I need to find a system or Dungeon Master who will cater to it.
I realise most of this is a 'me' problem. More power to the players who can pull off a full-blown dragon character and whatever that means for that setting, and the DMs who go along with it. I think a more apt example for my original post might've been Mummy: The Curse or Cabal.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
I think the issue of a dragon being played as a person who happens to be a dragon will come down to the player, and I aim to make my lore addition such that players aren't bound to any sort of motivations or alien mindsets by virtue of being dragons. Whilst your average dragon may have such a mindset, the sort of dragon who goes adventuring probably wouldn't!
As for players wanting dragons because they don't understand the rules, that's not why they wanted the dragon - that's why they didn't already know that the answer would be no!
Regarding non-human player characters, I'm curious as to what other characters or creatures people would be interested as playing as, within a reasonable scope of balance (EG a beholder is a no, because it's too far detached from normal character stats, but vaguely humanoid characters, like young dragons, who can carry/swing things or learn magic, are all fair game!). What else do people want to play as, beside Dragons?
I want to play as an ooze. After seeing the irreverent succubus and ooze series from Ill Will Press, a useless ooze who can tell the future (or rather, randomly see into an alternate dimension often called IRL) sounds like a lot of fun as a peripheral character. (The "sucky-bus" was summoned but the summoner was nowhere to be found. So, she's now a player character trying to find her master but having to do quests to gain monies and experience for better abilities—especially after that *shudder* ogre incident.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I want to play as an ooze. After seeing the irreverent succubus and ooze series from Ill Will Press, a useless ooze who can tell the future (or rather, randomly see into an alternate dimension often called IRL) sounds like a lot of fun as a peripheral character. (The "sucky-bus" was summoned but the summoner was nowhere to be found. So, she's now a player character trying to find her master but having to do quests to gain monies and experience for better abilities—especially after that *shudder* ogre incident.)
I want to play as an ooze. After seeing the irreverent succubus and ooze series from Ill Will Press, a useless ooze who can tell the future (or rather, randomly see into an alternate dimension often called IRL) sounds like a lot of fun as a peripheral character. (The "sucky-bus" was summoned but the summoner was nowhere to be found. So, she's now a player character trying to find her master but having to do quests to gain monies and experience for better abilities—especially after that *shudder* ogre incident.)
I actually have a player in one of my games who is playing as an Ooze, using the Ooze Cohort rules they found. It's a pretty cool class, and I've made some homebrew feats to add to it to let them become an Oblex
There really isn't an aspect of D&D that doesn't lend itself to anthropomorphizing, except maybe aberrations, and even then their poster boy Xanathar is very easily understood on human terms.
For Dragons, I like the new (to me) lore expansion of Dragonsight to be a mix of multidimensional "I can see for mile and miles" and an identity with draconic echoes of "I am he, as you are he and you are me and we are all together..." because I was sorta running with that idea anyway before the book even came out. But there are plenty of fictions out there were Dragons are very readily understood personalities in human (and sometimes even dimunitive ,... like say cats) terms. If Dragons are more like the Biblical leviathan or whirlwind in your game, sure probably not very playable, but as a DM every one shot I do is not necessarily consistent with what I consider my main game world, so I could see myself trying it if a particular story seemed compelling. Again, if DDB can do it, so can you!*
*honestly I thought the one shot for familiars was better, I think maybe because the party was diverse rather than mono-species.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
One of my earliest attempts to plot a fantasy adventure game involved monsters who rebel against the dark lord: zombie wizards, skeleton barbarians, slime druids, and dragon paladins. It's fun to play as the bad guys, whether as a monster with a heart of gold or in an evil campaign. It opens up a bunch of new races.
However for D&D, I think dragonborn already takes the desired attributes of dragons and makes them balanced for a player character. Its got the breath weapon. It's got the elemental resistance. I think all one might wish for is flight. A house rule race variant with flight can probably be permitted at the DM's discretion, perhaps by giving up the resistance.
Or maybe drawing from older versions and giving them an elemental weakness to match the resistance then give them flight.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
When someone tells me they want to play a dragon, I tell them there is an easy, totally legal way to play a dragon. DM your own game and I'll be happy to roll up a player for it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The kind of roleplay you're talking about - having your own cults - is better suited to playing as the DM.
Wasn't Birthright sorta Vamp the Masq sort of "politcs and intrigue" but with Dragons? In fact chronologically VtM might've been Birthright but with Vampires? I don't remember the timeline well actually never heard of Birthright till it popped up on this forum once. In fact I'm not sure if I'm getting Birthright mixed up with a different you play the Dragon D&D setting. Like Wyrmspire or something like that?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Are you mixing up Council of Wyrms and Birthright?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
True enough, but - and this is based on zero experience whatsoever - I'd get overindulgent in that and would bore my players with how powerful I've made my character and their abilities. I don't trust myself enough to DM by respecting the players and their characters, hence why I'd prefer an arbiter such as a DM to rein me in and set parameters. I could instead cut out the players and write a book about it but then it'd be self-indulgent power fantasy, and once again I'd get bored because there's no-one there to stop me spiralling things out of control.
Even as a player one of my first characters during his creation had the goal of starting a cult (I don't know why I'm obsessed with the idea), but then I thought: how am I going to get the opportunity to do this, and is the party really going to be fine with this? Unless the adventure had the explicit purpose of that or my party is willing to let me do this without much objection for how time-consuming I'll make it, then... no. So you're right: either DM, or I need to find a system or Dungeon Master who will cater to it.
I realise most of this is a 'me' problem. More power to the players who can pull off a full-blown dragon character and whatever that means for that setting, and the DMs who go along with it. I think a more apt example for my original post might've been Mummy: The Curse or Cabal.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Yep, that's what I was thinking of, Thanks.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Thanks all for the responses!
I think the issue of a dragon being played as a person who happens to be a dragon will come down to the player, and I aim to make my lore addition such that players aren't bound to any sort of motivations or alien mindsets by virtue of being dragons. Whilst your average dragon may have such a mindset, the sort of dragon who goes adventuring probably wouldn't!
As for players wanting dragons because they don't understand the rules, that's not why they wanted the dragon - that's why they didn't already know that the answer would be no!
Regarding non-human player characters, I'm curious as to what other characters or creatures people would be interested as playing as, within a reasonable scope of balance (EG a beholder is a no, because it's too far detached from normal character stats, but vaguely humanoid characters, like young dragons, who can carry/swing things or learn magic, are all fair game!). What else do people want to play as, beside Dragons?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
One interesting possibility would be an entirely underwater campaign mermen, sea elves, etc
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Dragon shmagon.
I want to play as an ooze. After seeing the irreverent succubus and ooze series from Ill Will Press, a useless ooze who can tell the future (or rather, randomly see into an alternate dimension often called IRL) sounds like a lot of fun as a peripheral character. (The "sucky-bus" was summoned but the summoner was nowhere to be found. So, she's now a player character trying to find her master but having to do quests to gain monies and experience for better abilities—especially after that *shudder* ogre incident.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Dragon blood ooze FTW then.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I actually have a player in one of my games who is playing as an Ooze, using the Ooze Cohort rules they found. It's a pretty cool class, and I've made some homebrew feats to add to it to let them become an Oblex
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
They're a scalie
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
