All of which is basically stuff we already knew. Still. Useful to have it compiled somewhere, I suppose.
Facts being what they are, there are a good clip of people who don't really read the forums and for them to post something definitive on the front page does allay a lot of fears, or create them but at least the knowledge is there.
It just feels like a hapless money grab. You are updating things and making everyone pay for it. It's like buying the same thing twice. If they were broken before, then the "update" should be free like a service pack. At minimum there should have been an "Upgrade Path" for those who already have the material. They are thinking in the world of print books, and not the world of software. A lot of us pay for a Subscription and at what point is this upgrade part of the Subscription? Everything I've seen on M3 makes it seems just like compiled books for others to buy, which if it's for new folks, sure, that's great. It saves them money. But apply the changes to those that have the original content. This book definitely puts a sour taste in my mouth about what could be coming. At MINIMUM, they should do a side by side of all 3 books, the 2 old books together, with the content that they have compared to the new one.
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Drasten - Dungeon Master of the On The Edge of Darkness Campaign
It just feels like a hapless money grab. You are updating things and making everyone pay for it. It's like buying the same thing twice. If they were broken before, then the "update" should be free like a service pack. At minimum there should have been an "Upgrade Path" for those who already have the material. They are thinking in the world of print books, and not the world of software. A lot of us pay for a Subscription and at what point is this upgrade part of the Subscription? Everything I've seen on M3 makes it seems just like compiled books for others to buy, which if it's for new folks, sure, that's great. It saves them money. But apply the changes to those that have the original content. This book definitely puts a sour taste in my mouth about what could be coming. At MINIMUM, they should do a side by side of all 3 books, the 2 old books together, with the content that they have compared to the new one.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
It would have been better if they had either split Monsters of the Multiverse into 2 books, and included all the Background info in Volos and Mordenkeinans, or released a purely fluff book with those chapters in it, possibly as an E book that could be downloaded from Wizards own website.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
No Volos and mordenkeinans tomb of foes will still be in print.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
No Volos and mordenkeinans tomb of foes will still be in print.
No, they’re going out of print. That’s why people are upset.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
Name a couple and I'll look them up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
Name a couple and I'll look them up.
Yeenoghu, Baphomet, Zuggtmoy
Yeah all three are there, as well as a modification you can make to other stat blocks if they vecome a cultist of each.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
Name a couple and I'll look them up.
Yeenoghu, Baphomet, Zuggtmoy
Yeah all three are there, as well as a modification you can make to other stat blocks if they vecome a cultist of each.
lol so if I buy the book I get them 3 times over :)
Can I ask do you have Volos of TOF? Intrigued by these claims of changes to monsters to make them more challenging, or better aligned at least to there CR, that is probably the only reason I would buy the physical book.
So if I don't already own MToF and VGtM then it makes perfect sense that I should buy M3, so my main question is whether or not any of the DDB content is missing from the new book. Are all of the monsters, magic items, races, and subraces going to be available in the new book?
Scarloc - Sorry the really long quote chain is messing with my phone, I can't even delete it properly. Anyways, no, I don't own it. However, in the morning I'll check against current statblocks and see what differences there are. Let me know if you'd like me to check a specific statblock.
So if I don't already own MToF and VGtM then it makes perfect sense that I should buy M3, so my main question is whether or not any of the DDB content is missing from the new book. Are all of the monsters, magic items, races, and subraces going to be available in the new book?
I believe so, I seem to remember a while ago checking the monsters at least. I'm assuming you mean all as in all from those two books, because there's no way all of them in the edition are in there. There are playable races from other books too. So far as I'm aware, the only bits dropped are the in depth lore sections, to make it more generic to all settings. I disagree with the premise of that decision - I don't think dropping the lore is the answer - but that seems to be what was done.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So if I don't already own MToF and VGtM then it makes perfect sense that I should buy M3, so my main question is whether or not any of the DDB content is missing from the new book. Are all of the monsters, magic items, races, and subraces going to be available in the new book?
The lore is stripped out and there are no magic items. The races got changed and are not the same as the real ones in VGM and MToF. The tiefling subraces and such from MToF aren't in the book and are presumed to be released in the "new evolution" of the core books in 2024.
It's worth mentioning that the handful of magic items were only intended for use by the monsters, rather than players. It's likely that this is the reason they were removed.
Scarloc - Sorry the really long quote chain is messing with my phone, I can't even delete it properly. Anyways, no, I don't own it. However, in the morning I'll check against current statblocks and see what differences there are. Let me know if you'd like me to check a specific statblock.
So if I don't already own MToF and VGtM then it makes perfect sense that I should buy M3, so my main question is whether or not any of the DDB content is missing from the new book. Are all of the monsters, magic items, races, and subraces going to be available in the new book?
I believe so, I seem to remember a while ago checking the monsters at least. I'm assuming you mean all as in all from those two books, because there's no way all of them in the edition are in there. There are playable races from other books too. So far as I'm aware, the only bits dropped are the in depth lore sections, to make it more generic to all settings. I disagree with the premise of that decision - I don't think dropping the lore is the answer - but that seems to be what was done.
Yes I meant only the ones that are available in the two older books. Not all of them ever. That would be neat, but not at all what I was asking.
Thank you for the responses. It makes sense that they would remove those items if they were never intended to be used by PCs in the first place.
Yeah, buying it won't change the way everything works. You may have noticed a lot of races, etc. Are listed as "legacy." Volo's and tome of foes are no longer going to be sold. You have them, you can still use them, but nobody will be able to buy them (until hopefully Wizards realizes their mistake). You get M3, you will still have access to the "legacy" content.
I honestly kind of wish they were actually replacing the content if you buy M3 so I could have a reason besides "I want to boycott your pandering" to cancel my preorder... I would much rather just homebrew the genasi changes...
They could have just continued selling everything and made the changes be variant races, but no.[REDACTED]
Yeah, buying it won't change the way everything works. You may have noticed a lot of races, etc. Are listed as "legacy." Volo's and tome of foes are no longer going to be sold. You have them, you can still use them, but nobody will be able to buy them (until hopefully Wizards realizes their mistake). You get M3, you will still have access to the "legacy" content.
I honestly kind of wish they were actually replacing the content if you buy M3 so I could have a reason besides "I want to boycott your pandering" to cancel my preorder... I would much rather just homebrew the genasi changes...
They could have just continued selling everything and made the changes be variant races, but no.[REDACTED]
Volos and Tomb of Foes will still be sold as paper versions, WOTC is not stopping publishing those 2 books, DnD Beyond is delisting them, but, as has been commented throughout the internet this has caused concern about all the lore info that will no longer be available ot buy in DnD Beyond.
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All of which is basically stuff we already knew. Still. Useful to have it compiled somewhere, I suppose.
Please do not contact or message me.
Facts being what they are, there are a good clip of people who don't really read the forums and for them to post something definitive on the front page does allay a lot of fears, or create them but at least the knowledge is there.
It just feels like a hapless money grab. You are updating things and making everyone pay for it. It's like buying the same thing twice. If they were broken before, then the "update" should be free like a service pack. At minimum there should have been an "Upgrade Path" for those who already have the material. They are thinking in the world of print books, and not the world of software. A lot of us pay for a Subscription and at what point is this upgrade part of the Subscription? Everything I've seen on M3 makes it seems just like compiled books for others to buy, which if it's for new folks, sure, that's great. It saves them money. But apply the changes to those that have the original content. This book definitely puts a sour taste in my mouth about what could be coming. At MINIMUM, they should do a side by side of all 3 books, the 2 old books together, with the content that they have compared to the new one.
Drasten - Dungeon Master of the On The Edge of Darkness Campaign
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My big issue with it is that it has not replaced Mordenkeinans and Volos, they are still available because they both include lots of background information on things like the blood war etc but that forces anyone new to the system to either buy 2 books that have repeated info in (all the monsters) or decide they want the old version of these monsters, or the new.
It would have been better if they had either split Monsters of the Multiverse into 2 books, and included all the Background info in Volos and Mordenkeinans, or released a purely fluff book with those chapters in it, possibly as an E book that could be downloaded from Wizards own website.
But people new to the system will no longer be able to buy the two books with all the lore/background in; they will only be able to buy the new book containing just the rules part of each monster description.
It seems that WotC want to move away from official core "lore" that includes anything sociological that people might find offensive.
They need to be careful with the precedent they set either way, because they will be expected to be consistent. They risk fracturing the user base. They either fork it and keep both, or one group loses. It will likely just get to a point where a sub-set of players will just not "upgrade" to the new version and likely leave DDB for other online options. Someone will see it as an opportunity and provide a web site, or software, to let people unofficially use OG5e online.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
No Volos and mordenkeinans tomb of foes will still be in print.
No, they’re going out of print. That’s why people are upset.
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I have no issue with the changes wizards are making, my issue is the fact that if I was coming into the game as a new DM then I would be buying tomb of foes and Volos guide to monsters because of all the pages of background that are in them. Info on Beholders, giants, goblins, elves, the blood war etc. but I would also by the monsters of the multiverse so I effectively buy 2 copies of the monsters in book form.
My other unrelated question, are all the demon lords in Monsters of the Multiverse, if so that means I will have them 3 times now, out of the abyss, tomb of foes and MMM.
Name a couple and I'll look them up.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeenoghu, Baphomet, Zuggtmoy
I am also here.
Am snek.
Yeah all three are there, as well as a modification you can make to other stat blocks if they vecome a cultist of each.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
lol so if I buy the book I get them 3 times over :)
Can I ask do you have Volos of TOF? Intrigued by these claims of changes to monsters to make them more challenging, or better aligned at least to there CR, that is probably the only reason I would buy the physical book.
So if I don't already own MToF and VGtM then it makes perfect sense that I should buy M3, so my main question is whether or not any of the DDB content is missing from the new book. Are all of the monsters, magic items, races, and subraces going to be available in the new book?
Scarloc - Sorry the really long quote chain is messing with my phone, I can't even delete it properly. Anyways, no, I don't own it. However, in the morning I'll check against current statblocks and see what differences there are. Let me know if you'd like me to check a specific statblock.
I believe so, I seem to remember a while ago checking the monsters at least. I'm assuming you mean all as in all from those two books, because there's no way all of them in the edition are in there. There are playable races from other books too. So far as I'm aware, the only bits dropped are the in depth lore sections, to make it more generic to all settings. I disagree with the premise of that decision - I don't think dropping the lore is the answer - but that seems to be what was done.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The lore is stripped out and there are no magic items. The races got changed and are not the same as the real ones in VGM and MToF. The tiefling subraces and such from MToF aren't in the book and are presumed to be released in the "new evolution" of the core books in 2024.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt's worth mentioning that the handful of magic items were only intended for use by the monsters, rather than players. It's likely that this is the reason they were removed.
DM: "You found a magic item...."
Players: "Yay!"
DM: ".... That you can't use!"
Players: "...."
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Yes I meant only the ones that are available in the two older books. Not all of them ever. That would be neat, but not at all what I was asking.
Thank you for the responses. It makes sense that they would remove those items if they were never intended to be used by PCs in the first place.
Yeah, buying it won't change the way everything works. You may have noticed a lot of races, etc. Are listed as "legacy." Volo's and tome of foes are no longer going to be sold. You have them, you can still use them, but nobody will be able to buy them (until hopefully Wizards realizes their mistake). You get M3, you will still have access to the "legacy" content.
I honestly kind of wish they were actually replacing the content if you buy M3 so I could have a reason besides "I want to boycott your pandering" to cancel my preorder... I would much rather just homebrew the genasi changes...
They could have just continued selling everything and made the changes be variant races, but no.[REDACTED]
Volos and Tomb of Foes will still be sold as paper versions, WOTC is not stopping publishing those 2 books, DnD Beyond is delisting them, but, as has been commented throughout the internet this has caused concern about all the lore info that will no longer be available ot buy in DnD Beyond.