Well I have been working on a ninja character. I would like to hear how people define ninjas to help build a flavorful ninja. Because how we define a concept determines the steps we take to complete the project. I personally define ninjas as spies, sappers and commandos.
Spies because of their role as information gathers. The criminal background and rogue class fits this well. Which is a good place to start with their skill versatility and flexibility. Stealth, deception, acrobatics, and persuasion provide the party a good face and scout.
Sappers are combat engineers. I think of ninjas as sappers because of their knowledge of advanced technology. Artificer is a good fit with replicate objects and versatile spell list. They would add to the party by providing tools or as a breacher.
Commandos are soldiers trained to off balance and disrupt their enemies. Kensai Monk with the poisoner feat is the dirtiest fighter I can think of. Synagizing with rogue to give the party a mobile de buffing skirmisher.
I think ninjas hired combat engineers but were not themselves that. They were spies and mercenaries, mainly about stealth and stealthy combat. I see no reason to be anything except a Rogue base, perhaps Multi-classing for other skills.
That is, I would expect a Ninja clan to be consist of 100% Rogues as their base class, but have some Rogue/Monks, Rogue/Artificers, Rogue/Fighters, Rogue/Rangers, etc.
Oh, I think there's lots of ways of making a ninja character. It all depends on what kind of ninja type person you wanna be.
You could go with a gloom stalker ranger / assassin rogue. Or a gloom stalker ranger / inquisitive rogue. Or a shadow monk / battlemaster fighter. or an open hand monk / assassin rogue. Or just an open hand monk with the criminal background. Or you could go with any of these combos and take the Changeling race to help with the infiltration aspect of the job.
That's the great thing about D&D. You've got a nearly infinite amount of possibilities available to help you fine tune any kind of character you can possibly imagine.
My "ninja" character was a shadow monk with 3 levels warlock (goo) for mirror image (kagebushin), invisibility, find familiar (summoning), devil's sight (to see in their own darkness), mask of many faces (transformation), plus a few other useful things like comprehend language.
I think you are trying to make the ninja too many things where as it might be wise to create 3+ subclasses off of a ninja main class. The subclasses might be info gathers (actors, merchants, soldiers), saboteurs, chemists/alchemists/herbalist, martial artist/assassins, assassin/magician and clan/org management.
Also in various fiction there are a number of clans that have different abilities so you might want to make a unique Ninja class for each special clan and then have subclasses off the main class.
IMHO, saying Ninja is light saying fighter as both can be broad terms and interpreted in many ways.
I have to agree that both the concept of ninja and the classes you can use to fit that concept are so broad that there's no right answer here.
For me, at least 75% of what makes a character a ninja would be about presentation and roleplay. Not so much about what tools you have (although there are a few obvious ones you should have), but how you describe yourself using them.
I have to agree that both the concept of ninja and the classes you can use to fit that concept are so broad that there's no right answer here.
For me, at least 75% of what makes a character a ninja would be about presentation and roleplay. Not so much about what tools you have (although there are a few obvious ones you should have), but how you describe yourself using them.
Yes, I agree 100% It comes down to one thing:
Do you want the SKILL of a "ninja"? Or do you want to BE a "ninja"? If you want the specific skills and techniques that a ninja would use, usually rouge class has you covered, but ultimately any class would work. But, if you want to BE a ninja, that is basically an occupation or career you can pursue no matter what. Your class doesn't automatically determine what your character does for a living.
In short, if you want to BE a ninja, then do stuff a ninja would do. If you want to have ninja SKILLS, then I'd recommend playing any class that can boost your dexterity or give you lots of proficiencies in dexterity-based checks. (Like a rouge)
Ninjas are assassination specialists. For me, a ninja's core skillset is:
Martial arts
Stealth
Acrobatics
Silent weapons like blow pipes, weapons that are easily concealed, and weapons that create advantages against traditional weapons, e.g. kusarigama
Mobility like running on water/walls
I don't know of anything that would lead to a ninja having advanced technology, it doesn't fit in with my understanding of what a ninja was at all.
I would build a Ninja as:
Assassination Rogue (3)
Way of the Kensi Monk (the rest)
Take Acrobatics and Stealth
Criminal/Spy background
Feats: Fey Touched (re-styled so that Misty Step is more like a smoke bomb tossed on the ground followed by a 'bamf' type teleport)
Yes this may not be the most efficient build, but it fulfils the role very well, and ninjas should not be good when going toe to toe with an enemy. A highly trained ninja loses a straight up fight to a highly trained samurai; the lack of armour, and the lack of swordsmanship training means they don't have the defences. The whole point of being a ninja is not to get bogged down fighting someone, you want to take them out from the shadows.
Ninjas are stealthy spies, saboteurs, thieves, and assassins. Their whole deal is that if they're doing their job right then their enemies don't even realize they're there until they've already accomplished their objective. Rogue is the most obvious fit for this type of character with the larger selection of skills and the explosive damage of sneak attack. Assassin is again an obvious go to subclass but other subclasses focused more on stealth and/or impersonation like Thief are also quite valid. Monks, Rangers, (Gloomstalker, anyone?) and even Bards can fill the roles of a stealthy and skilled thief/assassin type even without sneak attack (though multiclassing into Rogue is absolutely a valid choice) depending on subclass, skill choices and any particular specialties or signature style you want to go with for your character.
You can theoretically fill the role of a ninja with a stealth inclined barbarian or a full caster with the proper spell selection as well. D&D 5e's class and subclass system is intended from the ground up to give players a lot of different options for filling a relatively small number of basic roles in a lot of different ways and styles so Rogues no longer have a monopoly on being sneaky (which is a definite requirement for a ninja). Still, a Rogue or Rogue multiclass is the first thing most people are going to think of when they hear "ninja."
In ye olden days of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition there was such a book as The Complete Ninja's Handbook. To quote a brief passage from its introduction,
In the AD&D game, the ninja is a highly trained spy who is expert in matters of intrusion, sabotage, and elimination. He is part of a tight-knit clan whose profession and goals he shares. Some ninja are generalists, equally at home in matters of stealth and combat. Some are specialists, becoming adept at social skills, magic, or interaction with nature.
Keep in mind of course that AD&D was when there were significantly greater limitations to classes, such as starting stats, race and background, thus it's not the best source for 5th Edition. However, it did have some interesting concepts that could be ported into today's game, such as its kits:
Shadow Warriors were the ninjas most adept with weapons, and could disguise themselves as fighters.
Consorts are seducers and charmers, which can be a different twist on the horny bard trope.
Spirit Warriors are essentially Arcane Trickster rogues; incorporating illusions and magic into their fighting styles.
There were also the Shinobi (which borrow from other and compliment other classes), Spies and Killers, who have their own kits/subclasses that can be flavoured with 5E's many subclasses.
They had unique skills like Giant Kite Flying, Gathering Information (probably the Investigation skill in today's game), Quick Study, Toxicology (likely Medicine/Nature) and Water Walking. And for backgrounds they had loads of information on clans, culture, rites, followers and their status in said clan. The book is also very good at giving guidelines on how to maintain your identity as a ninja, what happens if/when it is discovered, and what you can do about it to the benefit of the party or the world outside of your clan grounds. Unfortunately the book does recommend some things that are controversial today like hiding character sheets or showing false ones, keeping secrets, and playing games between just yourself and the DM to perform operations, but even for the time it does come up with some healthier alternatives. "The players know, but the characters don't," and such.
~
While a lot of its mechanics will undoubtedly be incompatible with 5th Edition D&D, you can easily draw inspiration from it by taking existing classes and perhaps even arguing that indeed, the sapper side of the Artificer or the tracking side of the Ranger can work for a Ninja!
There's some fantastic ideas from everyone here though, keep up the commenting! ^^
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
I agree with those who say it’s really tough to say. First, are we talking about historical ninjas, or ninjas as portrayed in fiction, because (and I’m no expert) my understanding is they don’t really match up.
I agree with those who say it’s really tough to say. First, are we talking about historical ninjas, or ninjas as portrayed in fiction, because (and I’m no expert) my understanding is they don’t really match up.
That said, I’d go way of shadow monk.
I"d lean way of shadow monk too, but yeah it really does depend what you want your ninja to do. A historical ninja or a naruto ninja, etc. There's really plenty of ways to go about it, or multiclass a bit.
Way of Shadow Monk, to me, is the one class that is very deliberately trying to be the "Ninja" class of the game. The subclass description outright uses the term "Ninja" to describe them. I think the only thing the subclass lacks is any form of Assassination-style attack... Monks specialize in outputting many attacks at once instead of one big output of damage (like you get with a Rogue). They do get a way to grant themselves advantage with their Shadow Step, but ultimately it's still going to be limited to the relatively weak weapons that count as Monk weapons, until you eventually get to the point where you can rely on your Martial Arts die to get fairly high.
That said, if we're going off of historical ninja, the Assassin Rogue is much closer to how they actually function. Not just for their Assassinate feature (which seems to be the only thing, mechanically, that interests most people in the subclass), but it gives you proficiency with a Disguise Kit and Poisoner's Kit on top of all the other Rogue features you already have. Most of the subclass abilities basically amount to giving you the ability to casually blend in with the average people and for the most part just not bring any attention to yourself, which is more how historical ninja functioned... which is cool and all, but also these features require a week of time, gold, or hours of observation on a target... to accomplish something that most DM's will let the Bard get away with if they just cast Disguise Self and succeed on a couple Deception checks.
So with that said, I actually think Thief is the better Rogue subclass to replicate a historical ninja. Right off the bat Second Story work accomplishes the increase in mobility that's associated with Ninja... giving you a climbing speed and an increase to your longjump, and Fast Hands can be used to quickly apply poisons to your weaponry or drop caltrops or any other thing that involves ninja tools other than directly attacking.
I agree with those who say it’s really tough to say. First, are we talking about historical ninjas, or ninjas as portrayed in fiction, because (and I’m no expert) my understanding is they don’t really match up.
That said, I’d go way of shadow monk.
I"d lean way of shadow monk too, but yeah it really does depend what you want your ninja to do. A historical ninja or a naruto ninja, etc. There's really plenty of ways to go about it, or multiclass a bit.
We are discussing people's thoughts and opinions about ninjas. Reason being it's fun to listen to other people ideas
In ye olden days of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition there was such a book as The Complete Ninja's Handbook. To quote a brief passage from its introduction,
In the AD&D game, the ninja is a highly trained spy who is expert in matters of intrusion, sabotage, and elimination. He is part of a tight-knit clan whose profession and goals he shares. Some ninja are generalists, equally at home in matters of stealth and combat. Some are specialists, becoming adept at social skills, magic, or interaction with nature.
Keep in mind of course that AD&D was when there were significantly greater limitations to classes, such as starting stats, race and background, thus it's not the best source for 5th Edition. However, it did have some interesting concepts that could be ported into today's game, such as its kits:
Shadow Warriors were the ninjas most adept with weapons, and could disguise themselves as fighters.
Consorts are seducers and charmers, which can be a different twist on the horny bard trope.
Spirit Warriors are essentially Arcane Trickster rogues; incorporating illusions and magic into their fighting styles.
There were also the Shinobi (which borrow from other and compliment other classes), Spies and Killers, who have their own kits/subclasses that can be flavoured with 5E's many subclasses.
They had unique skills like Giant Kite Flying, Gathering Information (probably the Investigation skill in today's game), Quick Study, Toxicology (likely Medicine/Nature) and Water Walking. And for backgrounds they had loads of information on clans, culture, rites, followers and their status in said clan. The book is also very good at giving guidelines on how to maintain your identity as a ninja, what happens if/when it is discovered, and what you can do about it to the benefit of the party or the world outside of your clan grounds. Unfortunately the book does recommend some things that are controversial today like hiding character sheets or showing false ones, keeping secrets, and playing games between just yourself and the DM to perform operations, but even for the time it does come up with some healthier alternatives. "The players know, but the characters don't," and such.
~
While a lot of its mechanics will undoubtedly be incompatible with 5th Edition D&D, you can easily draw inspiration from it by taking existing classes and perhaps even arguing that indeed, the sapper side of the Artificer or the tracking side of the Ranger can work for a Ninja!
There's some fantastic ideas from everyone here though, keep up the commenting! ^^
There was also info about them in Best of the Dragon Mag I or II, IIRC. We took that info and modified it for out highly moded AD&D game in the mid 80's.
I agree with those who say it’s really tough to say. First, are we talking about historical ninjas, or ninjas as portrayed in fiction, because (and I’m no expert) my understanding is they don’t really match up.
That said, I’d go way of shadow monk.
I"d lean way of shadow monk too, but yeah it really does depend what you want your ninja to do. A historical ninja or a naruto ninja, etc. There's really plenty of ways to go about it, or multiclass a bit.
We are discussing people's thoughts and opinions about ninjas. Reason being it's fun to listen to other people ideas
Yeah? Not really sure what you're getting at here.
Do you want to play a historically accurate ninja or a video game/anime ninja? Because the two are very different.
A historically accurate "ninja" would actually be called a shinobi, and "ninja" is almost certainly an ahistorical mispronunciation of the kanji. A historically accurate shinobi would be a subclass of fighter or ranger. They were largely samurai trained in special sets of skills, mostly scouting and leading troops through terrain. Spying and sabotage would be done, but mostly shinobi were scouts that could lead and support a team in the wilderness. They would pretty much never perform assassinations. They would likely wear medium to heavy armor. In direct combat they would fight exactly like conventional samurai, so they would be a fighter. They would only be "agile" in the sense of being able to travel through the wilderness more swiftly than a conventional army.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well I have been working on a ninja character. I would like to hear how people define ninjas to help build a flavorful ninja. Because how we define a concept determines the steps we take to complete the project. I personally define ninjas as spies, sappers and commandos.
Spies because of their role as information gathers. The criminal background and rogue class fits this well. Which is a good place to start with their skill versatility and flexibility. Stealth, deception, acrobatics, and persuasion provide the party a good face and scout.
Sappers are combat engineers. I think of ninjas as sappers because of their knowledge of advanced technology. Artificer is a good fit with replicate objects and versatile spell list. They would add to the party by providing tools or as a breacher.
Commandos are soldiers trained to off balance and disrupt their enemies. Kensai Monk with the poisoner feat is the dirtiest fighter I can think of. Synagizing with rogue to give the party a mobile de buffing skirmisher.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
I think ninjas hired combat engineers but were not themselves that. They were spies and mercenaries, mainly about stealth and stealthy combat. I see no reason to be anything except a Rogue base, perhaps Multi-classing for other skills.
That is, I would expect a Ninja clan to be consist of 100% Rogues as their base class, but have some Rogue/Monks, Rogue/Artificers, Rogue/Fighters, Rogue/Rangers, etc.
Oh, I think there's lots of ways of making a ninja character. It all depends on what kind of ninja type person you wanna be.
You could go with a gloom stalker ranger / assassin rogue. Or a gloom stalker ranger / inquisitive rogue. Or a shadow monk / battlemaster fighter. or an open hand monk / assassin rogue. Or just an open hand monk with the criminal background. Or you could go with any of these combos and take the Changeling race to help with the infiltration aspect of the job.
That's the great thing about D&D. You've got a nearly infinite amount of possibilities available to help you fine tune any kind of character you can possibly imagine.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
My "ninja" character was a shadow monk with 3 levels warlock (goo) for mirror image (kagebushin), invisibility, find familiar (summoning), devil's sight (to see in their own darkness), mask of many faces (transformation), plus a few other useful things like comprehend language.
I think you are trying to make the ninja too many things where as it might be wise to create 3+ subclasses off of a ninja main class. The subclasses might be info gathers (actors, merchants, soldiers), saboteurs, chemists/alchemists/herbalist, martial artist/assassins, assassin/magician and clan/org management.
Also in various fiction there are a number of clans that have different abilities so you might want to make a unique Ninja class for each special clan and then have subclasses off the main class.
IMHO, saying Ninja is light saying fighter as both can be broad terms and interpreted in many ways.
Good Luck on what you decide to do.
I have to agree that both the concept of ninja and the classes you can use to fit that concept are so broad that there's no right answer here.
For me, at least 75% of what makes a character a ninja would be about presentation and roleplay. Not so much about what tools you have (although there are a few obvious ones you should have), but how you describe yourself using them.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Yes, I agree 100% It comes down to one thing:
Do you want the SKILL of a "ninja"? Or do you want to BE a "ninja"? If you want the specific skills and techniques that a ninja would use, usually rouge class has you covered, but ultimately any class would work. But, if you want to BE a ninja, that is basically an occupation or career you can pursue no matter what. Your class doesn't automatically determine what your character does for a living.
In short, if you want to BE a ninja, then do stuff a ninja would do. If you want to have ninja SKILLS, then I'd recommend playing any class that can boost your dexterity or give you lots of proficiencies in dexterity-based checks. (Like a rouge)
Ninjas are assassination specialists. For me, a ninja's core skillset is:
I don't know of anything that would lead to a ninja having advanced technology, it doesn't fit in with my understanding of what a ninja was at all.
I would build a Ninja as:
Yes this may not be the most efficient build, but it fulfils the role very well, and ninjas should not be good when going toe to toe with an enemy. A highly trained ninja loses a straight up fight to a highly trained samurai; the lack of armour, and the lack of swordsmanship training means they don't have the defences. The whole point of being a ninja is not to get bogged down fighting someone, you want to take them out from the shadows.
Ninjas are stealthy spies, saboteurs, thieves, and assassins. Their whole deal is that if they're doing their job right then their enemies don't even realize they're there until they've already accomplished their objective. Rogue is the most obvious fit for this type of character with the larger selection of skills and the explosive damage of sneak attack. Assassin is again an obvious go to subclass but other subclasses focused more on stealth and/or impersonation like Thief are also quite valid. Monks, Rangers, (Gloomstalker, anyone?) and even Bards can fill the roles of a stealthy and skilled thief/assassin type even without sneak attack (though multiclassing into Rogue is absolutely a valid choice) depending on subclass, skill choices and any particular specialties or signature style you want to go with for your character.
You can theoretically fill the role of a ninja with a stealth inclined barbarian or a full caster with the proper spell selection as well. D&D 5e's class and subclass system is intended from the ground up to give players a lot of different options for filling a relatively small number of basic roles in a lot of different ways and styles so Rogues no longer have a monopoly on being sneaky (which is a definite requirement for a ninja). Still, a Rogue or Rogue multiclass is the first thing most people are going to think of when they hear "ninja."
I'm loving everyone's responses. The observation of how it's mainly about presentation to the different suggestions on how to make a ninja build.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
I agree, DND is about how you want to play, which is affected by your choices in class and roleplay.
In ye olden days of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition there was such a book as The Complete Ninja's Handbook. To quote a brief passage from its introduction,
Keep in mind of course that AD&D was when there were significantly greater limitations to classes, such as starting stats, race and background, thus it's not the best source for 5th Edition. However, it did have some interesting concepts that could be ported into today's game, such as its kits:
There were also the Shinobi (which borrow from other and compliment other classes), Spies and Killers, who have their own kits/subclasses that can be flavoured with 5E's many subclasses.
They had unique skills like Giant Kite Flying, Gathering Information (probably the Investigation skill in today's game), Quick Study, Toxicology (likely Medicine/Nature) and Water Walking. And for backgrounds they had loads of information on clans, culture, rites, followers and their status in said clan. The book is also very good at giving guidelines on how to maintain your identity as a ninja, what happens if/when it is discovered, and what you can do about it to the benefit of the party or the world outside of your clan grounds. Unfortunately the book does recommend some things that are controversial today like hiding character sheets or showing false ones, keeping secrets, and playing games between just yourself and the DM to perform operations, but even for the time it does come up with some healthier alternatives. "The players know, but the characters don't," and such.
~
While a lot of its mechanics will undoubtedly be incompatible with 5th Edition D&D, you can easily draw inspiration from it by taking existing classes and perhaps even arguing that indeed, the sapper side of the Artificer or the tracking side of the Ranger can work for a Ninja!
There's some fantastic ideas from everyone here though, keep up the commenting! ^^
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
I agree with those who say it’s really tough to say. First, are we talking about historical ninjas, or ninjas as portrayed in fiction, because (and I’m no expert) my understanding is they don’t really match up.
That said, I’d go way of shadow monk.
I"d lean way of shadow monk too, but yeah it really does depend what you want your ninja to do. A historical ninja or a naruto ninja, etc. There's really plenty of ways to go about it, or multiclass a bit.
Way of Shadow Monk, to me, is the one class that is very deliberately trying to be the "Ninja" class of the game. The subclass description outright uses the term "Ninja" to describe them. I think the only thing the subclass lacks is any form of Assassination-style attack... Monks specialize in outputting many attacks at once instead of one big output of damage (like you get with a Rogue). They do get a way to grant themselves advantage with their Shadow Step, but ultimately it's still going to be limited to the relatively weak weapons that count as Monk weapons, until you eventually get to the point where you can rely on your Martial Arts die to get fairly high.
That said, if we're going off of historical ninja, the Assassin Rogue is much closer to how they actually function. Not just for their Assassinate feature (which seems to be the only thing, mechanically, that interests most people in the subclass), but it gives you proficiency with a Disguise Kit and Poisoner's Kit on top of all the other Rogue features you already have. Most of the subclass abilities basically amount to giving you the ability to casually blend in with the average people and for the most part just not bring any attention to yourself, which is more how historical ninja functioned... which is cool and all, but also these features require a week of time, gold, or hours of observation on a target... to accomplish something that most DM's will let the Bard get away with if they just cast Disguise Self and succeed on a couple Deception checks.
So with that said, I actually think Thief is the better Rogue subclass to replicate a historical ninja. Right off the bat Second Story work accomplishes the increase in mobility that's associated with Ninja... giving you a climbing speed and an increase to your longjump, and Fast Hands can be used to quickly apply poisons to your weaponry or drop caltrops or any other thing that involves ninja tools other than directly attacking.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Double Class Monk Way of Shadow and Thief
We are discussing people's thoughts and opinions about ninjas. Reason being it's fun to listen to other people ideas
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
There was also info about them in Best of the Dragon Mag I or II, IIRC. We took that info and modified it for out highly moded AD&D game in the mid 80's.
Yeah? Not really sure what you're getting at here.
Do you want to play a historically accurate ninja or a video game/anime ninja? Because the two are very different.
A historically accurate "ninja" would actually be called a shinobi, and "ninja" is almost certainly an ahistorical mispronunciation of the kanji. A historically accurate shinobi would be a subclass of fighter or ranger. They were largely samurai trained in special sets of skills, mostly scouting and leading troops through terrain. Spying and sabotage would be done, but mostly shinobi were scouts that could lead and support a team in the wilderness. They would pretty much never perform assassinations. They would likely wear medium to heavy armor. In direct combat they would fight exactly like conventional samurai, so they would be a fighter. They would only be "agile" in the sense of being able to travel through the wilderness more swiftly than a conventional army.