So, I’m confused. What’s up with the Astral Plane? The original Spelljammer was set in the Prime Material Plane(s)… literally in space… like leave earth (or wherever) and fly to the moon. The Spelljammer ships carried their own “bubble” of oxygen and gravity with them. You didn’t get into Wildspace by planeshifting. Was this a 3e thing or is this new?
Just a guess, but I think that the planes will still exist within crystal spheres but beyond those spheres will be the Astral Sea. That is just a guess and we will have to wait to find out for certain.
So, I’m confused. What’s up with the Astral Plane? The original Spelljammer was set in the Prime Material Plane(s)… literally in space… like leave earth (or wherever) and fly to the moon. The Spelljammer ships carried their own “bubble” of oxygen and gravity with them. You didn’t get into Wildspace by planeshifting. Was this a 3e thing or is this new?
Wildspace is staying the same, from what we've seen so far. You can still just take a spaceship or fly high enough to reach the moon. That's not changing. However, in D&D's Multiverse, almost all star systems are surrounded by a giant hollow "Crystal Sphere" that (in AD&D 2e) floated in the Phlogiston, a flammable Bifrost ocean that can be used to travel from one D&D setting to another (the Forgotten Realms to Greyhawk, or Exandria to Dragonlance). The inside of a Crystal Sphere was called "Wildspace," and is where you would find all of the planets, stars, moons, and the majority of creatures in Spelljammer. You would get from Wildspace to the Phlogiston through naturally occurring (or artificially summoned) portals on the shell of a Crystal Sphere that would let you in/out of one.
The phlogiston really wasn't that interesting in the original Spelljammer, so D&D 4e and 5e replaced the Phlogiston with the Astral Plane (called the Astral Sea), which is much more interesting than the Phlogiston and fulfills much of the same role. In the Astral Sea there are the floating corpses of thousands of dead gods that are home to berbalang (strange aberrations that can speak with the dead, and probably the dead gods), githyanki (psionic yellow-skinned reptilian space elves that used to be enslaved by the Mind Flayers until they rose up and completely obliterated the Illithid Empire), and star lancers (the transformed souls of those that worshipped the dead gods), Astral Dreadnoughts that were created by an Elder Evil (Tharizdun the Chained God) in order to discourage travel to/from the Outer Planes and (presumably) other worlds, and remnants of the ancient illithid empire that travel the multiverse trying to rediscover the secret of creating the planeshopping, spelljamming Nautiloid ships.
Replacing the boring Phlogiston with the Astral Sea was just a way to simplify the D&D cosmology while also adding a lot of possible adventures and creatures that can be encountered in the setting. It especially makes sense because "Astral" just means "Starry," so it just makes sense for the "Starry Plane" to be a part of Spelljammer.
We won't know exactly how WotC will tackle the setting until the books are released, but from what we've seen, not much about the setting has been changed except for changing the Phlogiston to the Astral Sea and moving the Rock of Bral (the main adventuring hub of the setting) there.
There can be only 1 “solar” system, ours. Our star is the only “Sun/Sol,” the other stars have their own names. The Solar System is just one of many “star/planetary systems,” but ours is the only “solar” system.
There can be only 1 “solar” system, ours. Our star is the only “Sun/Sol,” the other stars have their own names. The Solar System is just one of many “star/planetary systems,” but ours is the only “solar” system.
Huh. You're right. Okay, then. "Star Systems" would be more accurate. The Star System of the Forgotten Realms would accurately be called the "Solar System," as the system's star is sometimes called "Sol," but for other settings it would be different (Eberron could be called the "Arrah System," for example). I'll go fix that.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Does anyone fancy stretching their literary muscles and explaining a bit about Spelljammer? What it's about and what kind of tone it has?
I can't speak from personal experience, but I've heard numerous stories from people who have. In short? Spelljammer is a product of The Nineties (note caps) during an era in which D&D was not as Srs Bsns as many people like to paint it as and when Wizards was a younger, less profitable company more willing to experiment. It takes the "your IP, IN SPAAAAAACE" approach to gameplay but dispense with the 'space' part, instead flavoring the multiverse as a series of silvery World Bubbles floating in an endless and infinite sea of what I believe was called the 'luminous phlogiston'. I.e. the Astral Sea in this case. Spelljamming ships were essentially blue-water sailing vessels reconfigured to work off of a unique piece of artifice called the Spelljamming Helm, which could turn a powerful enough mage into a propulsion device, and they could sail through the phlogiston sea and visit whichever world they could find.
The tone was...well. The very first idea that came to my mind when considering Spelljammer D&D games was "well, now I can run Outlaw Star in D&D. Huzzah!" it is exceptionally pulpy, High Action, Pirates of the Carribean-esque jackanapery not intended for gritty grimdark Low Magic games. You're on a magic pirate ship sailing through magic space having swordfights with rifle-toting British hippo people, firing arcane cannons at battleships full of mind flayers, and trying to figure out how to get back outside the Astral Dreadnought's donjon after jumping down its throat to score all the sweet loot it's swallowed over the ages. This is not Darkly Dramatic D&D, this is Summer Blockbuster D&D, or at least such has been the description given from everyone I've spoken to who played the original back in The Nineties.
I'm OLD enough to remember...
When Wizards was young they didn't own Dungeons & Dragons, it was TSR :) I'm also old enough to know that some of the new species in the new Spelljammer were inspired by a TSR game called STAR FRONTIERS, which predates the original Spelljammer by a decade.
Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
... then I remembered the Ravensloft book has player options, a broad setting DMs guide and a bestiary all under one binding, and an adventure ....
That map better be gorgeous. I mean the incentive covers look cool, but I think they could've done Gorgeous map, awesome screen, and big ol book in a slipcase instead of this splitting up of content that traditionally come in one binding thing. A lot less wear and tear on the slipcase that way too.
Wonder what Beedle and Grimm are gonna churn out.
Still think it's cool Spelljammer's back. I wouldn't worry about pastels. The CR adventure had a "pastel" cover and it definitely was not a Saturday morning cartoon. I actually welcome varied art styles in and among D&D books,
Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
... then I remembered the Ravensloft book has player options, a broad setting DMs guide and a bestiary all under one binding, and an adventure ....
That map better be gorgeous. I mean the incentive covers look cool, but I think they could've done Gorgeous map, awesome screen, and big ol book in a slipcase instead of this splitting up of content that traditionally come in one binding thing. A lot less wear and tear on the slipcase that way too.
Wonder what Beedle and Grimm are gonna churn out.
Still think it's cool Spelljammer's back. I wouldn't worry about pastels. The CR adventure had a "pastel" cover and it definitely was not a Saturday morning cartoon. I actually welcome varied art styles in and among D&D books,
Not just that, but looking at the "free monsters" tells you that it isn't just a friendship is magic setting, unless friendship can disintegrate you with a gaze, cut you a part with buzz saws or is a toothy parasite that takes away your freewill.
Well, maybe that last one sounds like "friends" that I have had in the past lol.
Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
... then I remembered the Ravensloft book has player options, a broad setting DMs guide and a bestiary all under one binding, and an adventure ....
That map better be gorgeous. I mean the incentive covers look cool, but I think they could've done Gorgeous map, awesome screen, and big ol book in a slipcase instead of this splitting up of content that traditionally come in one binding thing. A lot less wear and tear on the slipcase that way too.
Wonder what Beedle and Grimm are gonna churn out.
Still think it's cool Spelljammer's back. I wouldn't worry about pastels. The CR adventure had a "pastel" cover and it definitely was not a Saturday morning cartoon. I actually welcome varied art styles in and among D&D books,
Not just that, but looking at the "free monsters" tells you that it isn't just a friendship is magic setting, unless friendship can disintegrate you with a gaze, cut you a part with buzz saws or is a toothy parasite that takes away your freewill.
Well, maybe that last one sounds like "friends" that I have had in the past lol.
Yeah, and that's not exactly Saturday morning cartoon artwork either ... except maybe the goon balloon.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's going to be pirate ships in space hunting for treasure. There might be some odds and ends that are dark, but I doubt sincerely the level 5-8, which would be the shortest officially published adventure to date beyond the starter set will deal with anything more than a fantasy romp in space.
21.33 pages per level doesn't seem very outlandish, especially since Spelljammer isn't made for long dungeon crawls.
Oooooooo how exciting! I've heard so much about Spelljammer from my older players in my group and forums on here and I for one am SUPER excited for whatever comes of it! Always wanted to play a Firefly-esque crew member.
On a different note other than price points, woke could ruin what Spelljammer was and who owned DnD in the 90s, do the normal classes and backgrounds get used in this space fairing setting? What about the PHB races? Or is it only (recommended using) the Spelljammer races? I assume artificer will get a boost in numbers now.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
Oooooooo how exciting! I've heard so much about Spelljammer from my older players in my group and forums on here and I for one am SUPER excited for whatever comes of it! Always wanted to play a Firefly-esque crew member.
On a different note other than price points, woke could ruin what Spelljammer was and who owned DnD in the 90s, do the normal classes and backgrounds get used in this space fairing setting? What about the PHB races? Or is it only (recommended using) the Spelljammer races? I assume artificer will get a boost in numbers now.
Generally a lot of Spelljammer campaigns started on whatever setting you were used to and your players found a ship, and space adventure ensued. So you still had normal character options. Backgrounds weren’t a thing then so I expect some additions. A Firefly type setting would fit perfectly though.
Oooooooo how exciting! I've heard so much about Spelljammer from my older players in my group and forums on here and I for one am SUPER excited for whatever comes of it! Always wanted to play a Firefly-esque crew member.
On a different note other than price points, woke could ruin what Spelljammer was and who owned DnD in the 90s, do the normal classes and backgrounds get used in this space fairing setting? What about the PHB races? Or is it only (recommended using) the Spelljammer races? I assume artificer will get a boost in numbers now.
Generally a lot of Spelljammer campaigns started on whatever setting you were used to and your players found a ship, and space adventure ensued. So you still had normal character options. Backgrounds weren’t a thing then so I expect some additions. A Firefly type setting would fit perfectly though.
Yeah, you could play a campaign that started in Wildspace or whatever they called it then, but a lot of campaigns were regular D&D campaigns that took to Spelljammer space.
I believe all the standard races had spell jammer faring version in the setting. So like there were elves on Faerun, who weren't aware that there were elves playing the space lanes, same for everybody else. I forget whether spelljamming beings thought their analogs on "regular" D&D worlds were "primitive" or what not. The idea is that the regular campaign worlds largely keep going on as is, and spell jammers are for the most part sorta like UFOs. Sometimes people see them, and there's talk of spaceships, but no one really believes them. I think some spelljamming adventurers actually protect worlds from say Illithid space borne invasions, sorta protecting some worlds' innocence.
Artificers also weren't a thing when Spelljammer came forth. I could see the class sort of working within the setting, but IIRC spell jammers regardless of species operating the vessel required a Wizard to power the ship.
Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
... then I remembered the Ravensloft book has player options, a broad setting DMs guide and a bestiary all under one binding, and an adventure ....
That map better be gorgeous. I mean the incentive covers look cool, but I think they could've done Gorgeous map, awesome screen, and big ol book in a slipcase instead of this splitting up of content that traditionally come in one binding thing. A lot less wear and tear on the slipcase that way too.
Wonder what Beedle and Grimm are gonna churn out.
Still think it's cool Spelljammer's back. I wouldn't worry about pastels. The CR adventure had a "pastel" cover and it definitely was not a Saturday morning cartoon. I actually welcome varied art styles in and among D&D books,
Not just that, but looking at the "free monsters" tells you that it isn't just a friendship is magic setting, unless friendship can disintegrate you with a gaze, cut you a part with buzz saws or is a toothy parasite that takes away your freewill.
Well, maybe that last one sounds like "friends" that I have had in the past lol.
Yeah, and that's not exactly Saturday morning cartoon artwork either ... except maybe the goon balloon.
I mean, the goon balloon looks to me like a beach ball made by Leatherface, sooooo....
That's the Wizards I know though. That's the predatory marketing I'm used to.
Yeah, that's shady. 192 pages of content is easily one book. Printing right now has already has massive issues and delays, so we're gonna potentially shoot ourselves int he foot by complicating the problem>
Demand goes up, prices go up and this is probably the second most requested thing after books with DDB codes in them. :P
Actually, demand going up should only increase prices if supply doesn't also go up. Supply, for digital products, is nigh infinite. So, without an increase in scarcity, increasing demand shouldn't result in an increased price for the product. Only an increase in production costs should, organically, result in a rise in prices. I'd be hard pressed to believe that 192 pages cost more than 300 pages, unless wages have dramatically increased.
So 3x64=192 pages, that's like one book, $50 REALLY?
Less than 192 as that includes three paper cover pages, three tables of contents, three credits pages, etc. Plus the fact EGtW, widely considered the best D&D setting book produced by 5E, has 100 pages for just locations, while Spelljammer's section has 64 pages split between locations, ships, races, etc., so likely it has less than a quarter of EGtW's locations.
So 3x64=192 pages, that's like one book, $50 REALLY?
Less than 192 as that includes three paper cover pages, three tables of contents, three credits pages, etc. Plus the fact EGtW, widely considered the best D&D setting book produced by 5E, has 100 pages for just locations, while Spelljammer's section has 64 pages split between locations, ships, races, etc., so likely it has less than a quarter of EGtW's locations.
I didn't know that EGtW is considered the best setting book. It's the most controversial, for sure. Two overpowered semi broken Wizard schools and a Fighter subclass that, depending on interpretation, doesn't function or is broken. Disclaimer: those are not my opinions, just the gist I've noticed online, youtube, discord channels and FB groups. People that love it, love CR in general.
Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
The problem isn't really that it's expensive, it's the lack of content. OK, it is split between three books, but it has a little more than half the content of Rime, for little less than double the price. Separate bindings can only go so far to explain the price and trebling the price per page of content is a massive stretch, especially when those price points are for DDB, to whom it being separate bindings is irrelevant.
Actually, demand going up should only increase prices if supply doesn't also go up. Supply, for digital products, is nigh infinite. So, without an increase in scarcity, increasing demand shouldn't result in an increased price for the product. Only an increase in production costs should, organically, result in a rise in prices. I'd be hard pressed to believe that 192 pages cost more than 300 pages, unless wages have dramatically increased.
That's not how capitalism or price setting works. They charge you for however much they think they can get you to pay. Supply can push your limit up - you essentially outbid each other until one stops - but if you're willing to pay $100, they'll charge $100, scarcity and abundance are irrelevant. Now, if they have a bunch of them that they want to get rid of, they may drop the price to shift them quicker - but as you said, DDB books don't have that issue. Items that can't be scarce don't obey the same market rules - and that cuts both ways.
WotC clearly think people really want it, and so will be willing to pay more for it.
----
I'm curious about Spelljammer, and would like to try it. But I'm finding it very hard to justify paying 3-4x the amount per content. D&D books in particular are expensive anyway, and now this massive jack up in price?
I'm also wary that, as discussed above, future prices will be dictated by what they can get away with charging now. If it's shown that people are willing to pay 3-4x the amount they currently pay for content, then they'll continue to do so. Why would they ask for $30 when for merely changin single digit they can get $50? The problem is that this will effectively boot me out of the hobby, and I won't be the only one. I just can't justify $50 on a piddly 192 page book, even if it is in three even more piddly volumes.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WotC clearly think people really want it, and so will be willing to pay more for it.
I think they are right about that, to be honest. I mean my gaming circles largely ignore WotC and 5e as a whole, but this woke people up I would not have expected to have any interest in anything WotC was doing.
Spelljammer was a very popular setting back in the day, to see it in full color like this is pretty exciting.
The Dragonlance announcement is also really exciting. I don't always love the direction of WotC and I have my complaints about their business practices, but I'm a full blown capitalist in every sense of the word and the simple truth is, if you make something good, I will buy it. I'm not going to squabble over a few extra bucks for a book.
I don't have problems with WotC like it seems you do, but I agree with pretty much your whole statement. I really don't care about Dragonlance and would not have paid this much if it was a Dragonlance book. Or Greyhawk, or Dark Suns, etc. But when I saw it was Spelljammer, I was willing to pay whatever the amount was because I really, really love the setting.
I'm a full blown capitalist in every sense of the word and the simple truth is, if you make something good, I will buy it. I'm not going to squabble over a few extra bucks for a book.
Capitalism relies on you squabbling over a few extra bucks to maintain value for money. Otherwise, companies will keep jacking up the prices by a few a extra bucks until they bleed you dry.
But the point is that it's not just a few extra bucks. It's effectively more than trebling what's an already expensive price. I had misgivings when I saw the price (and thought it was a single, standard sized book), but when I looked at the sizes...if this is where WotC is going, I can't stay, I'm sorry. I'm really hoping that this is a one off, or what they've said is massively understating the quality of what they're providing.
I'm glad you have the setting that you like, that you can have your old style games but in 5e. But the massive change in content for money ratio is alarming for me, and if it's going to be part of their philosophy, then I won't be buying new books.
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Just a guess, but I think that the planes will still exist within crystal spheres but beyond those spheres will be the Astral Sea. That is just a guess and we will have to wait to find out for certain.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Wildspace is staying the same, from what we've seen so far. You can still just take a spaceship or fly high enough to reach the moon. That's not changing. However, in D&D's Multiverse, almost all star systems are surrounded by a giant hollow "Crystal Sphere" that (in AD&D 2e) floated in the Phlogiston, a flammable Bifrost ocean that can be used to travel from one D&D setting to another (the Forgotten Realms to Greyhawk, or Exandria to Dragonlance). The inside of a Crystal Sphere was called "Wildspace," and is where you would find all of the planets, stars, moons, and the majority of creatures in Spelljammer. You would get from Wildspace to the Phlogiston through naturally occurring (or artificially summoned) portals on the shell of a Crystal Sphere that would let you in/out of one.
The phlogiston really wasn't that interesting in the original Spelljammer, so D&D 4e and 5e replaced the Phlogiston with the Astral Plane (called the Astral Sea), which is much more interesting than the Phlogiston and fulfills much of the same role. In the Astral Sea there are the floating corpses of thousands of dead gods that are home to berbalang (strange aberrations that can speak with the dead, and probably the dead gods), githyanki (psionic yellow-skinned reptilian space elves that used to be enslaved by the Mind Flayers until they rose up and completely obliterated the Illithid Empire), and star lancers (the transformed souls of those that worshipped the dead gods), Astral Dreadnoughts that were created by an Elder Evil (Tharizdun the Chained God) in order to discourage travel to/from the Outer Planes and (presumably) other worlds, and remnants of the ancient illithid empire that travel the multiverse trying to rediscover the secret of creating the planeshopping, spelljamming Nautiloid ships.
Replacing the boring Phlogiston with the Astral Sea was just a way to simplify the D&D cosmology while also adding a lot of possible adventures and creatures that can be encountered in the setting. It especially makes sense because "Astral" just means "Starry," so it just makes sense for the "Starry Plane" to be a part of Spelljammer.
We won't know exactly how WotC will tackle the setting until the books are released, but from what we've seen, not much about the setting has been changed except for changing the Phlogiston to the Astral Sea and moving the Rock of Bral (the main adventuring hub of the setting) there.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
There can be only 1 “solar” system, ours. Our star is the only “Sun/Sol,” the other stars have their own names. The Solar System is just one of many “star/planetary systems,” but ours is the only “solar” system.
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Huh. You're right. Okay, then. "Star Systems" would be more accurate. The Star System of the Forgotten Realms would accurately be called the "Solar System," as the system's star is sometimes called "Sol," but for other settings it would be different (Eberron could be called the "Arrah System," for example). I'll go fix that.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm OLD enough to remember...
When Wizards was young they didn't own Dungeons & Dragons, it was TSR :) I'm also old enough to know that some of the new species in the new Spelljammer were inspired by a TSR game called STAR FRONTIERS, which predates the original Spelljammer by a decade.
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Initially I was a little "meh" over folks complaining about the pricepoint. It sort of makes sense to have a players guide, a DMs/Setting guide, and a bestiary as separate books with an adventure stuck in there somewhere ....
... then I remembered the Ravensloft book has player options, a broad setting DMs guide and a bestiary all under one binding, and an adventure ....
That map better be gorgeous. I mean the incentive covers look cool, but I think they could've done Gorgeous map, awesome screen, and big ol book in a slipcase instead of this splitting up of content that traditionally come in one binding thing. A lot less wear and tear on the slipcase that way too.
Wonder what Beedle and Grimm are gonna churn out.
Still think it's cool Spelljammer's back. I wouldn't worry about pastels. The CR adventure had a "pastel" cover and it definitely was not a Saturday morning cartoon. I actually welcome varied art styles in and among D&D books,
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Not just that, but looking at the "free monsters" tells you that it isn't just a friendship is magic setting, unless friendship can disintegrate you with a gaze, cut you a part with buzz saws or is a toothy parasite that takes away your freewill.
Well, maybe that last one sounds like "friends" that I have had in the past lol.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yeah, and that's not exactly Saturday morning cartoon artwork either ... except maybe the goon balloon.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
21.33 pages per level doesn't seem very outlandish, especially since Spelljammer isn't made for long dungeon crawls.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Oooooooo how exciting! I've heard so much about Spelljammer from my older players in my group and forums on here and I for one am SUPER excited for whatever comes of it! Always wanted to play a Firefly-esque crew member.
On a different note other than price points, woke could ruin what Spelljammer was and who owned DnD in the 90s, do the normal classes and backgrounds get used in this space fairing setting? What about the PHB races? Or is it only (recommended using) the Spelljammer races? I assume artificer will get a boost in numbers now.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
Generally a lot of Spelljammer campaigns started on whatever setting you were used to and your players found a ship, and space adventure ensued. So you still had normal character options. Backgrounds weren’t a thing then so I expect some additions. A Firefly type setting would fit perfectly though.
Yeah, you could play a campaign that started in Wildspace or whatever they called it then, but a lot of campaigns were regular D&D campaigns that took to Spelljammer space.
I believe all the standard races had spell jammer faring version in the setting. So like there were elves on Faerun, who weren't aware that there were elves playing the space lanes, same for everybody else. I forget whether spelljamming beings thought their analogs on "regular" D&D worlds were "primitive" or what not. The idea is that the regular campaign worlds largely keep going on as is, and spell jammers are for the most part sorta like UFOs. Sometimes people see them, and there's talk of spaceships, but no one really believes them. I think some spelljamming adventurers actually protect worlds from say Illithid space borne invasions, sorta protecting some worlds' innocence.
Artificers also weren't a thing when Spelljammer came forth. I could see the class sort of working within the setting, but IIRC spell jammers regardless of species operating the vessel required a Wizard to power the ship.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So 3x64=192 pages, that's like one book, $50 REALLY?
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I mean, the goon balloon looks to me like a beach ball made by Leatherface, sooooo....
Actually, demand going up should only increase prices if supply doesn't also go up. Supply, for digital products, is nigh infinite. So, without an increase in scarcity, increasing demand shouldn't result in an increased price for the product. Only an increase in production costs should, organically, result in a rise in prices. I'd be hard pressed to believe that 192 pages cost more than 300 pages, unless wages have dramatically increased.
Less than 192 as that includes three paper cover pages, three tables of contents, three credits pages, etc. Plus the fact EGtW, widely considered the best D&D setting book produced by 5E, has 100 pages for just locations, while Spelljammer's section has 64 pages split between locations, ships, races, etc., so likely it has less than a quarter of EGtW's locations.
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I didn't know that EGtW is considered the best setting book. It's the most controversial, for sure. Two overpowered semi broken Wizard schools and a Fighter subclass that, depending on interpretation, doesn't function or is broken. Disclaimer: those are not my opinions, just the gist I've noticed online, youtube, discord channels and FB groups. People that love it, love CR in general.
The problem isn't really that it's expensive, it's the lack of content. OK, it is split between three books, but it has a little more than half the content of Rime, for little less than double the price. Separate bindings can only go so far to explain the price and trebling the price per page of content is a massive stretch, especially when those price points are for DDB, to whom it being separate bindings is irrelevant.
That's not how capitalism or price setting works. They charge you for however much they think they can get you to pay. Supply can push your limit up - you essentially outbid each other until one stops - but if you're willing to pay $100, they'll charge $100, scarcity and abundance are irrelevant. Now, if they have a bunch of them that they want to get rid of, they may drop the price to shift them quicker - but as you said, DDB books don't have that issue. Items that can't be scarce don't obey the same market rules - and that cuts both ways.
WotC clearly think people really want it, and so will be willing to pay more for it.
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I'm curious about Spelljammer, and would like to try it. But I'm finding it very hard to justify paying 3-4x the amount per content. D&D books in particular are expensive anyway, and now this massive jack up in price?
I'm also wary that, as discussed above, future prices will be dictated by what they can get away with charging now. If it's shown that people are willing to pay 3-4x the amount they currently pay for content, then they'll continue to do so. Why would they ask for $30 when for merely changin single digit they can get $50? The problem is that this will effectively boot me out of the hobby, and I won't be the only one. I just can't justify $50 on a piddly 192 page book, even if it is in three even more piddly volumes.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I don't have problems with WotC like it seems you do, but I agree with pretty much your whole statement. I really don't care about Dragonlance and would not have paid this much if it was a Dragonlance book. Or Greyhawk, or Dark Suns, etc. But when I saw it was Spelljammer, I was willing to pay whatever the amount was because I really, really love the setting.
Capitalism relies on you squabbling over a few extra bucks to maintain value for money. Otherwise, companies will keep jacking up the prices by a few a extra bucks until they bleed you dry.
But the point is that it's not just a few extra bucks. It's effectively more than trebling what's an already expensive price. I had misgivings when I saw the price (and thought it was a single, standard sized book), but when I looked at the sizes...if this is where WotC is going, I can't stay, I'm sorry. I'm really hoping that this is a one off, or what they've said is massively understating the quality of what they're providing.
I'm glad you have the setting that you like, that you can have your old style games but in 5e. But the massive change in content for money ratio is alarming for me, and if it's going to be part of their philosophy, then I won't be buying new books.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.