I am trying to make a character for a one-shot. It's level 20, and I can only make my character using the following
PHB
Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
Because that's all the DM has aside from the DMG.
I want to make the most powerful magic user that I can from those books, min/maxed to do as much damage as possible in the shortest time possible. We are fighting a God, and it's a one-shot, so there won't be a lot of time for exploring backstories, so backstory or quirks for this character is less important than being able to hit hard and relentlessly.
Can you help me put together this character? I so rarely create a level 20 and haven't min/maxed before, but I need to be able to deal out the most damage that I can.
Thanks for your help in advance.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
At 20th level, you can do some really nasty things with spellcasting. Here is my favourite:
Cast Prismatic Wall in a sphere over the enemy's head. Each time they pass through the Wall, they take 50d6 damage (and half damage on saves, but they need to make a lot of different saves so it is likely they'll still do more than half damage), and have a chance to restrain, blind, or even petrify or banish the enemy.
You then cast Reverse Gravity. If they fail their dex save, they go up in the air and pass through the Prismatic Wall twice on the way up (because you shaped it into a sphere, which the spell specifically says you can do).... then you end concentration on Reverse Gravity and they fall down. That's about 200d6 damage, four chances to blind, four chances to restrain.
Reverse Gravity is a level 7 spell, so you likely can do this multiple turns in a row.
At 20th level, you can do some really nasty things with spellcasting. Here is my favourite:
Cast Prismatic Wall in a sphere over the enemy's head. Each time they pass through the Wall, they take 50d6 damage (and half damage on saves, but they need to make a lot of different saves so it is likely they'll still do more than half damage), and have a chance to restrain, blind, or even petrify or banish the enemy.
You then cast Reverse Gravity. If they fail their dex save, they go up in the air and pass through the Prismatic Wall twice on the way up (because you shaped it into a sphere, which the spell specifically says you can do).... then you end concentration on Reverse Gravity and they fall down. That's about 200d6 damage, four chances to blind, four chances to restrain.
Reverse Gravity is a level 7 spell, so you likely can do this multiple turns in a row.
You'd need two spell casters to realistically do that, wouldn't you? They're both Action spells, and no DM would be silly enough to let their goons stay in that threat zone. Since the sphere has a diameter of 30ft, most enemies will be able to get out during their turn.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
At 20th level, you can do some really nasty things with spellcasting. Here is my favourite:
Cast Prismatic Wall in a sphere over the enemy's head. Each time they pass through the Wall, they take 50d6 damage (and half damage on saves, but they need to make a lot of different saves so it is likely they'll still do more than half damage), and have a chance to restrain, blind, or even petrify or banish the enemy.
You then cast Reverse Gravity. If they fail their dex save, they go up in the air and pass through the Prismatic Wall twice on the way up (because you shaped it into a sphere, which the spell specifically says you can do).... then you end concentration on Reverse Gravity and they fall down. That's about 200d6 damage, four chances to blind, four chances to restrain.
Reverse Gravity is a level 7 spell, so you likely can do this multiple turns in a row.
You'd need two spell casters to realistically do that, wouldn't you? They're both Action spells, and no DM would be silly enough to let their goons stay in that threat zone. Since the sphere has a diameter of 30ft, most enemies will be able to get out during their turn.
I should probably clarify - one would need party support, in the form of things that deny opponents movement, another spellcaster, etc.; but none of that is all that hard at level 20. There's just some dumb things high level parties can accomplish, even just using basic teamwork.
Quick side question. Just because I've not played them before, I thought I'd make this PC a Tabaxi. is there any reason why a Tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster?
Thanks
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Quick side question. Just because I've not played them before, I thought I'd make this PC a Tabaxi. is there any reason why a Tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster?
Thanks
Pretty much any species can make any sort of build, your racial stats often mean less than your class and subclass options. If your DM is using feats, those often have more impact than base racial features, too. Whether you're rolling stats, using point buy, or using standard array also makes a significant difference more than your base racial ASIs. So no, there's no reason a tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster--your casting ability, spell choice, and class choice dictate that.
Quick side question. Just because I've not played them before, I thought I'd make this PC a Tabaxi. is there any reason why a Tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster?
Thanks
There is no reason it would not work, but, if you are trying to min-max a character, you should ask what it gives your particular build. The big advantage seems to be its climbing speed, which can be rather nifty for a caster, allowing you to climb to places melee enemies cannot easily reach. Depending on where you are fighting, you might get differing mileage out of that (in a forest with lots of trees, great - in a plain, not so much). They also do slightly better with unarmed attacks, which could be useful for an opportunity attack - but you probably have better things to spend your reaction on.
It is generally going to be strictly worse than something with a flying speed, but there is nothing that would preclude you from running a tabaxi, other than how far you want to go on min-maxing.
Honestly if you're a level 20 wizard, your strongest tools are not raw damage dealing. Stuff like wish, gate, true polymorph, etc. can do reality-altering things that just bypass the need for damage altogether.
Quick side question. Just because I've not played them before, I thought I'd make this PC a Tabaxi. is there any reason why a Tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster?
Thanks
I'm unaware of any limitation to any race thar would stop them from becoming the a decent spellcaster. The only thing coming to mind is the old style Kenku - they couldn't speak, only imitate. Therefore, any spells with a verbal component could be problematic, depending on how strict your DM is, until you hear someone else cast the spell.
Would the Tabaxi, all things being equal, be as good as other races like High Elves? No. That only really matters in a minmaxxer situation in order to keep up. Otherwise, Tabaxi are fine. Even Kenku are fine if you have a decent DM, are willing to take that hit for RP or use the new version that doesn't have Mimicry as a trait.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In my opinion, the most powerful casters from those books are:
Abjuration Wizard, Divination Wizard
Non-wizards do not get the best spells, Wish being the single best one in the book.
Other classes get nice abilities, but do not compete with the top Abilities of those two classes. Arcane Ward gives you hitpoints that stack with Temp hitpoints, and they renew whenever you cast an Abjuration spell. Portents gives you not only 3 extra chances, but you know what they are ahead of time letting you make effective use of Save or Lose spells. More importantly you can use the good ones for you, bad ones for the enemies. Advantage on all saves and resistance to all spell damage is also great
That said, to truly min-max, you can do better than the 20th level ability, so you can take a level in any other spell caster class , including Cleric or Sorcerer without affecting your spells. Cleric and Sorcerer both have subclass abilities at 1st level, but the books you listed have sucky Sorcerer abilities. Tempest Cleric can grant you martial weapons, Heavy Armor and Wrath of Storm. Light cleric can grant you Warding Flare for blindness. War Domain can grant you martial weapons, Heavy Armor and a weapon attack as a bonus action.
I do not think taking a 2nd or third level is worth it. Spell Mastery and the Feat are worth more than what you get.
Race and feats are more about what you like. I will say that Warcaster or Resilient (Constition) are the best spell caster ones (you can do both, but one is enough). After that, consider Metamagic Adept. 2 spell points allow you to Quicken once or to subtle cast twice.
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Hi,
I am trying to make a character for a one-shot. It's level 20, and I can only make my character using the following
Because that's all the DM has aside from the DMG.
I want to make the most powerful magic user that I can from those books, min/maxed to do as much damage as possible in the shortest time possible. We are fighting a God, and it's a one-shot, so there won't be a lot of time for exploring backstories, so backstory or quirks for this character is less important than being able to hit hard and relentlessly.
Can you help me put together this character? I so rarely create a level 20 and haven't min/maxed before, but I need to be able to deal out the most damage that I can.
Thanks for your help in advance.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Try searching rpg bot Eg. Fighter RPG BOT. It has the best optimization manuals for dnd.
At 20th level, you can do some really nasty things with spellcasting. Here is my favourite:
Cast Prismatic Wall in a sphere over the enemy's head. Each time they pass through the Wall, they take 50d6 damage (and half damage on saves, but they need to make a lot of different saves so it is likely they'll still do more than half damage), and have a chance to restrain, blind, or even petrify or banish the enemy.
You then cast Reverse Gravity. If they fail their dex save, they go up in the air and pass through the Prismatic Wall twice on the way up (because you shaped it into a sphere, which the spell specifically says you can do).... then you end concentration on Reverse Gravity and they fall down. That's about 200d6 damage, four chances to blind, four chances to restrain.
Reverse Gravity is a level 7 spell, so you likely can do this multiple turns in a row.
You'd need two spell casters to realistically do that, wouldn't you? They're both Action spells, and no DM would be silly enough to let their goons stay in that threat zone. Since the sphere has a diameter of 30ft, most enemies will be able to get out during their turn.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I should probably clarify - one would need party support, in the form of things that deny opponents movement, another spellcaster, etc.; but none of that is all that hard at level 20. There's just some dumb things high level parties can accomplish, even just using basic teamwork.
Guys,
Quick side question. Just because I've not played them before, I thought I'd make this PC a Tabaxi. is there any reason why a Tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster?
Thanks
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Pretty much any species can make any sort of build, your racial stats often mean less than your class and subclass options. If your DM is using feats, those often have more impact than base racial features, too. Whether you're rolling stats, using point buy, or using standard array also makes a significant difference more than your base racial ASIs. So no, there's no reason a tabaxi wouldn't work as a high level caster--your casting ability, spell choice, and class choice dictate that.
There is no reason it would not work, but, if you are trying to min-max a character, you should ask what it gives your particular build. The big advantage seems to be its climbing speed, which can be rather nifty for a caster, allowing you to climb to places melee enemies cannot easily reach. Depending on where you are fighting, you might get differing mileage out of that (in a forest with lots of trees, great - in a plain, not so much). They also do slightly better with unarmed attacks, which could be useful for an opportunity attack - but you probably have better things to spend your reaction on.
It is generally going to be strictly worse than something with a flying speed, but there is nothing that would preclude you from running a tabaxi, other than how far you want to go on min-maxing.
Honestly if you're a level 20 wizard, your strongest tools are not raw damage dealing. Stuff like wish, gate, true polymorph, etc. can do reality-altering things that just bypass the need for damage altogether.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I'm unaware of any limitation to any race thar would stop them from becoming the a decent spellcaster. The only thing coming to mind is the old style Kenku - they couldn't speak, only imitate. Therefore, any spells with a verbal component could be problematic, depending on how strict your DM is, until you hear someone else cast the spell.
Would the Tabaxi, all things being equal, be as good as other races like High Elves? No. That only really matters in a minmaxxer situation in order to keep up. Otherwise, Tabaxi are fine. Even Kenku are fine if you have a decent DM, are willing to take that hit for RP or use the new version that doesn't have Mimicry as a trait.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In my opinion, the most powerful casters from those books are:
Abjuration Wizard, Divination Wizard
Non-wizards do not get the best spells, Wish being the single best one in the book.
Other classes get nice abilities, but do not compete with the top Abilities of those two classes. Arcane Ward gives you hitpoints that stack with Temp hitpoints, and they renew whenever you cast an Abjuration spell. Portents gives you not only 3 extra chances, but you know what they are ahead of time letting you make effective use of Save or Lose spells. More importantly you can use the good ones for you, bad ones for the enemies. Advantage on all saves and resistance to all spell damage is also great
That said, to truly min-max, you can do better than the 20th level ability, so you can take a level in any other spell caster class , including Cleric or Sorcerer without affecting your spells. Cleric and Sorcerer both have subclass abilities at 1st level, but the books you listed have sucky Sorcerer abilities. Tempest Cleric can grant you martial weapons, Heavy Armor and Wrath of Storm. Light cleric can grant you Warding Flare for blindness. War Domain can grant you martial weapons, Heavy Armor and a weapon attack as a bonus action.
I do not think taking a 2nd or third level is worth it. Spell Mastery and the Feat are worth more than what you get.
Race and feats are more about what you like. I will say that Warcaster or Resilient (Constition) are the best spell caster ones (you can do both, but one is enough). After that, consider Metamagic Adept. 2 spell points allow you to Quicken once or to subtle cast twice.