Question for the day: What tier of play do you like the best? Is it the lower levels when you need every last HP to stay alive and can get a thrill combatting Kobolds, the higher levels when you’re basically a demigod and can wield the powers of the multiverse, or somewhen in between? And why?
As a player, I don't mind. I find the demigod side of things, however, the most boring. Because at that point a lot of people (especially casters) have powers, that combined, make anything being a real threat difficult.
My preference as a player is that middle ground - that way health isn't always a dire thing - and you're encountering way more different monsters and encounters than the standard low end things like, "It's goblins. Again."
As a DM - I listen to my players (not even if they're telling me directly) - but their enjoyment in the game. If they're laughing and having a good time, I know I am doing all right. Right now, my main game I DM folks are level 10, exploring the Astral Plane (chasing a mad Beholder with a powerful artifact, trying to attain godhood) - my off week game, they're level 6 - and have been on this cursed island - that game is a metric ton of RP, and it's extremely fun. Leveling there is secondary to everyone, and they've said as much. My third game, I believe they're level 7 (and all having a good time there). In all three games, they play in a shared world (homebrew) so if the first game burns down a town, if the 3rd game gets to that town, it will either be burned or in the process of being rebuilt and such. So it's been a lot of fun.
And... I've gone off the rails. Somewhere in there I answered the question.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
For example, you might change a spellcasters main casting stat between Int, Wis, or Cha, or you might change how a Barbarian's Rage feature works or how Paladins are able to apply Divine Smite
Drinking potions being a bonus action. So dumb it takes a full action to chug some grape Fanta.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
Warlocks would be Int casters, Artificers would be a PHB class, and we would have a true Psionicist class that doesn’t use spells or spellcasting.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
Warlocks would be Int casters, Artificers would be a PHB class, and we would have a true Psionicist class that doesn’t use spells or spellcasting.
Personally, I would keep Warlocks Cha - it’s about your relationship with your patron. I would probably instead move Sorcerers to Constitution (how well your body can withstand the forces surging through you), while also reducing their hit points and maybe adjusting their spell list to be more about quick burst damage rather than have a bunch of abusable Concentration spells.
Couldn’t agree more on artificer and on having a psionic class. Have someone in one of my parties playing a UA mystic right now (which has some problems in balancing at low levels, but is much better now that we’re in the middle levels) and it has been a blast, and have seen some fun psionics in earlier editions.
I also think artificer suffers from not being a PHB class insofar as it gets very little subclass support as the black sheep of the class family. Heck, even Mercer’s Bloodhunter class has more subclasses than Artificer does.
Blood Hunter has 4 "official" subclasses actually; Ghosthunter, Lycan, Mutant, and Profane Soul. Which still puts it roughly on par with the amount of support Artificer has recieved, so 🤷♂️
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
Warlocks would be Int casters, Artificers would be a PHB class, and we would have a true Psionicist class that doesn’t use spells or spellcasting.
the bolded part -- this is something I have been trying to get my head around for a while, because I don't particularly like the way D&D has handled *any* psionics, lol. Going back to the 76 box set, lol.
Part of it is that I think the way Julian May did it was far superior, and that has never once slipped out of my way -- hell, it even worked in other games, but not here.
All of that said...
It actually could work in the new system I set up really easily. the major ideas behind the system are "magic is always visible, magic tires you out and can knock you down and out if you do too much, magic has a sense or weight to it, magic can be stored". SO it went to a separate spell point system, and I can do a variant on that within my game allowing for a similar structure for psionics.
Hmm. *wanders off to ponder*
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Blood Hunter has 4 "official" subclasses actually; Ghosthunter, Lycan, Mutant, and Profane Soul. Which still puts it roughly on par with the amount of support Artificer has recieved, so 🤷♂️
So it does - I was going by memory and thought it was five. I’ll stand by the underlying point - it is silly for an official class to be in the same position as an unofficial class that happens to receive some official support.
Question for the day: What tier of play do you like the best? Is it the lower levels when you need every last HP to stay alive and can get a thrill combatting Kobolds, the higher levels when you’re basically a demigod and can wield the powers of the multiverse, or somewhen in between? And why?
5th edition really seems to work well at all levels, though I haven't ever gotten to play in or run a high-level campaign. Honestly, I like starting at level 1 and working my way up, because it's really neat to see your character evolve and change as their character arc progresses and they go from a fledgling adventurer to a mighty hero.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
For example, you might change a spellcasters main casting stat between Int, Wis, or Cha, or you might change how a Barbarian's Rage feature works or how Paladins are able to apply Divine Smite
There are so many things that need to be modified lol. I kinda want the adventuring day, CR system, and the way D&D handles non-combat XP to be changed. That being said, the biggest thing I want to see in 1DD is more classes and an improved Monk and Ranger class.
Dear Heavens, yes -- the CR thing drives an old gal like me nuts -- to the point I simply said screw it. As in, I ignored it completely and ultimately built my own that has a CR of 0 to 30 and is matched to the the characters.
And that, in turn, led me to realize that in the name of allowing at least a 12th level character (possibly a 9th level) to encounter pretty much all the major beasties with a chance, they ultimately made a lot of critters much easier to deal with. So That meant I had to redo the primary monsters I use, and I've been doing that with each of the modules as I move forward. Now that I think on it, that may be why I keep seeing "highest tier PCs are demigods" stuff,and wondering how they can see it that way, lol.
If you use most of the critters as detailed, well, yeah, I guess the non-planar ones are kinda not going to be a challenge.
I still have XP for those who want to use it, but I have used some variant or other of the milestone system for ages -- at least since 1982, so that just generally works better for me. In order to reward those non-combat, role playing and also the super cool heroic stuff, I am toying with a use of inspiration or HEro Points -- adding features into them to give them greater value.When I do the open game version of my next campaign here on DDB, I won't be able to use any of the monster blocks in practical play, though I should be ale to still let the players use those elements to help guide them.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
A fundamental thing I would change is the daily encounter budget. They should change it to reflect that no one actually does 6-8 per day. My guess is that 1-3 is the more realistic number, but I don't have any data to back that up. But whatever the real number is, they should re-balance the game around that number of encounters. Honestly, imo, this would fix a lot, lot of problems. One of the biggest, in particular, I think it would help with the martial/caster balance. If casters are expected to spread spells around 6-8 encounters, but only actually have half that number, then it's no wonder they always seem to have the right spell prepared. And martials are supposed to be able to shine because they can keep going doing their thing all day, but if you never really push the casters to the point where they're just down to cantrips, the martials don't get to show off how they don't slow down.
To the CR discussion, I don't know if there's much to do about CR. It can only ever be a rough gauge of relative power. There's just too many variables involved for it to be meaningful. Is it the party's first fight of the day or their seventh? Do the casters have spells prepped that can one-shot enemies (eg banishment vs. an elemental), do the martials have magic weapons (that overcome resistance, and let them hit like they're several levels higher than they actually are), what's the terrain like. And the big one, DM skill, is the DM using the monster's abilities to the fullest, or are they forgetting that burrow speed, or lair actions. It's not perfect, by any means, but I don't know how you could assign a number and say, yes, this is how hard the enemy will be in every fight, every time.
Though, changing the encounters per day expectation would likely help with CR a bit, as well.
Question for the day: What tier of play do you like the best? Is it the lower levels when you need every last HP to stay alive and can get a thrill combatting Kobolds, the higher levels when you’re basically a demigod and can wield the powers of the multiverse, or somewhen in between? And why?
As a player, I think I like being on the cusp of tier 3 (levels 9 & 10 are my fave) because you are just starting to scratch the surface of some really heavy-hitting abilities, but you aren't an actual demigod yet. Also, the subclasses really get into their groove and flavor.
As a DM...tier 2. Not only can the PCs take a decent punch and handle interesting beasties, they're not quite at the level where magic and class abilities make logistical challenges a non-issue. I enjoy some good old fashioned travel hardships and mundane dungeon traps. When you can just teleport places or Stoneshape your way around things, it takes some of the charm out of it.
As a player and a DM, I have a deep fondness for tier 1 play. I like the struggle to survive and the feeling of growing stronger with every level. And having both played and DMed level 20 characters, I like that the least for how overblown everything feels.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why
Warlocks spell slots tied to proficiency bonus. I'm absolutely fine with them having fewer spell slots, but the current progression is ridiculous for anything about 4th or 5th level.
A fundamental thing I would change is the daily encounter budget. They should change it to reflect that no one actually does 6-8 per day. My guess is that 1-3 is the more realistic number, but I don't have any data to back that up. But whatever the real number is, they should re-balance the game around that number of encounters. Honestly, imo, this would fix a lot, lot of problems. One of the biggest, in particular, I think it would help with the martial/caster balance. If casters are expected to spread spells around 6-8 encounters, but only actually have half that number, then it's no wonder they always seem to have the right spell prepared. And martials are supposed to be able to shine because they can keep going doing their thing all day, but if you never really push the casters to the point where they're just down to cantrips, the martials don't get to show off how they don't slow down.
Agreed. Eight combat encounters a day? They're either going to be so easy as to be boring or the party is going to end up dead and never make it to the next level, let alone the next town.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why
Warlocks spell slots tied to proficiency bonus. I'm absolutely fine with them having fewer spell slots, but the current progression is ridiculous for anything about 4th or 5th level.
That would only make Warlock dips even worse. It could scale at the same rate as PB, but not tied directly to PB.
A fundamental thing I would change is the daily encounter budget. They should change it to reflect that no one actually does 6-8 per day. My guess is that 1-3 is the more realistic number, but I don't have any data to back that up. But whatever the real number is, they should re-balance the game around that number of encounters. Honestly, imo, this would fix a lot, lot of problems. One of the biggest, in particular, I think it would help with the martial/caster balance. If casters are expected to spread spells around 6-8 encounters, but only actually have half that number, then it's no wonder they always seem to have the right spell prepared. And martials are supposed to be able to shine because they can keep going doing their thing all day, but if you never really push the casters to the point where they're just down to cantrips, the martials don't get to show off how they don't slow down.
Agreed. Eight combat encounters a day? They're either going to be so easy as to be boring or the party is going to end up dead and never make it to the next level, let alone the next town.
Encounters aren’t necessarily fights. I think they’re more defined like, something that makes you use resources. Like casting fly to get somewhere isn’t a fight, but does make you use a spell slot. But even then, I don’t think there’s as many a day as the design assumption.
Secondary question for today, if you could change one fundamental mechanic for a class in the game as part of the conversion from 5e->OneD&D, what would it be and why?
For example, you might change a spellcasters main casting stat between Int, Wis, or Cha, or you might change how a Barbarian's Rage feature works or how Paladins are able to apply Divine Smite
I think it would be cool if sorcerers had a spellcaster's equivalent of a rage. Maybe give them advantage on Constitution or Charisma checks and saving throws, give them a bonus to spell damage rolls, and give them resistance to fire, cold, lightning, and force damage. I got that from looking at the Barbarian rage and converting it into something that would make more sense for a sorcerer, but it also could be different and not just a sort of copy of the barbarian's rage.
Question for the day: What tier of play do you like the best? Is it the lower levels when you need every last HP to stay alive and can get a thrill combatting Kobolds, the higher levels when you’re basically a demigod and can wield the powers of the multiverse, or somewhen in between? And why?
The farthest I have gotten as a player is level six, so I don't really know.
Question for the day: What tier of play do you like the best? Is it the lower levels when you need every last HP to stay alive and can get a thrill combatting Kobolds, the higher levels when you’re basically a demigod and can wield the powers of the multiverse, or somewhen in between? And why?
I agree with Caerwyn on this. I prefer middle levels, so level 5 to level 9. The characters still feel vulnerable and mortal, but they're powerful enough to feel like heroes. And it's also way easier to think of the consequences of these level of spells (like Eberron does) than higher level magic on worldbulding.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I enjoy low-level play, I enjoy mid-level play. Idk if I could pin one as my favorite. It's probably not high-level play in and of itself, but when you've been playing the characters up to that point, it is very rewarding to play those levels.
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As a player, I don't mind. I find the demigod side of things, however, the most boring. Because at that point a lot of people (especially casters) have powers, that combined, make anything being a real threat difficult.
My preference as a player is that middle ground - that way health isn't always a dire thing - and you're encountering way more different monsters and encounters than the standard low end things like, "It's goblins. Again."
As a DM - I listen to my players (not even if they're telling me directly) - but their enjoyment in the game. If they're laughing and having a good time, I know I am doing all right. Right now, my main game I DM folks are level 10, exploring the Astral Plane (chasing a mad Beholder with a powerful artifact, trying to attain godhood) - my off week game, they're level 6 - and have been on this cursed island - that game is a metric ton of RP, and it's extremely fun. Leveling there is secondary to everyone, and they've said as much. My third game, I believe they're level 7 (and all having a good time there). In all three games, they play in a shared world (homebrew) so if the first game burns down a town, if the 3rd game gets to that town, it will either be burned or in the process of being rebuilt and such. So it's been a lot of fun.
And... I've gone off the rails. Somewhere in there I answered the question.
I think. :D
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
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Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
This is a House Rule I implemented Day 1.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Warlocks would be Int casters, Artificers would be a PHB class, and we would have a true Psionicist class that doesn’t use spells or spellcasting.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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Personally, I would keep Warlocks Cha - it’s about your relationship with your patron. I would probably instead move Sorcerers to Constitution (how well your body can withstand the forces surging through you), while also reducing their hit points and maybe adjusting their spell list to be more about quick burst damage rather than have a bunch of abusable Concentration spells.
Couldn’t agree more on artificer and on having a psionic class. Have someone in one of my parties playing a UA mystic right now (which has some problems in balancing at low levels, but is much better now that we’re in the middle levels) and it has been a blast, and have seen some fun psionics in earlier editions.
I also think artificer suffers from not being a PHB class insofar as it gets very little subclass support as the black sheep of the class family. Heck, even Mercer’s Bloodhunter class has more subclasses than Artificer does.
Artificer has 4 subclasses; the official material I’ve seen for Blood Hunter is 3, last I checked. Official being “on the DDB class page”.
Edited PS: That said, making it a core class would definitely help it grow
Hoping they eventually develop Dark Sun (to appease the many Dark Sun fans) - and bring that aspect in.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Blood Hunter has 4 "official" subclasses actually; Ghosthunter, Lycan, Mutant, and Profane Soul. Which still puts it roughly on par with the amount of support Artificer has recieved, so 🤷♂️
the bolded part -- this is something I have been trying to get my head around for a while, because I don't particularly like the way D&D has handled *any* psionics, lol. Going back to the 76 box set, lol.
Part of it is that I think the way Julian May did it was far superior, and that has never once slipped out of my way -- hell, it even worked in other games, but not here.
All of that said...
It actually could work in the new system I set up really easily. the major ideas behind the system are "magic is always visible, magic tires you out and can knock you down and out if you do too much, magic has a sense or weight to it, magic can be stored". SO it went to a separate spell point system, and I can do a variant on that within my game allowing for a similar structure for psionics.
Hmm. *wanders off to ponder*
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
So it does - I was going by memory and thought it was five. I’ll stand by the underlying point - it is silly for an official class to be in the same position as an unofficial class that happens to receive some official support.
5th edition really seems to work well at all levels, though I haven't ever gotten to play in or run a high-level campaign. Honestly, I like starting at level 1 and working my way up, because it's really neat to see your character evolve and change as their character arc progresses and they go from a fledgling adventurer to a mighty hero.
There are so many things that need to be modified lol. I kinda want the adventuring day, CR system, and the way D&D handles non-combat XP to be changed. That being said, the biggest thing I want to see in 1DD is more classes and an improved Monk and Ranger class.
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HERE.Dear Heavens, yes -- the CR thing drives an old gal like me nuts -- to the point I simply said screw it. As in, I ignored it completely and ultimately built my own that has a CR of 0 to 30 and is matched to the the characters.
And that, in turn, led me to realize that in the name of allowing at least a 12th level character (possibly a 9th level) to encounter pretty much all the major beasties with a chance, they ultimately made a lot of critters much easier to deal with. So That meant I had to redo the primary monsters I use, and I've been doing that with each of the modules as I move forward. Now that I think on it, that may be why I keep seeing "highest tier PCs are demigods" stuff,and wondering how they can see it that way, lol.
If you use most of the critters as detailed, well, yeah, I guess the non-planar ones are kinda not going to be a challenge.
I still have XP for those who want to use it, but I have used some variant or other of the milestone system for ages -- at least since 1982, so that just generally works better for me. In order to reward those non-combat, role playing and also the super cool heroic stuff, I am toying with a use of inspiration or HEro Points -- adding features into them to give them greater value.When I do the open game version of my next campaign here on DDB, I won't be able to use any of the monster blocks in practical play, though I should be ale to still let the players use those elements to help guide them.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
A fundamental thing I would change is the daily encounter budget. They should change it to reflect that no one actually does 6-8 per day. My guess is that 1-3 is the more realistic number, but I don't have any data to back that up. But whatever the real number is, they should re-balance the game around that number of encounters. Honestly, imo, this would fix a lot, lot of problems. One of the biggest, in particular, I think it would help with the martial/caster balance. If casters are expected to spread spells around 6-8 encounters, but only actually have half that number, then it's no wonder they always seem to have the right spell prepared. And martials are supposed to be able to shine because they can keep going doing their thing all day, but if you never really push the casters to the point where they're just down to cantrips, the martials don't get to show off how they don't slow down.
To the CR discussion, I don't know if there's much to do about CR. It can only ever be a rough gauge of relative power. There's just too many variables involved for it to be meaningful. Is it the party's first fight of the day or their seventh? Do the casters have spells prepped that can one-shot enemies (eg banishment vs. an elemental), do the martials have magic weapons (that overcome resistance, and let them hit like they're several levels higher than they actually are), what's the terrain like. And the big one, DM skill, is the DM using the monster's abilities to the fullest, or are they forgetting that burrow speed, or lair actions. It's not perfect, by any means, but I don't know how you could assign a number and say, yes, this is how hard the enemy will be in every fight, every time.
Though, changing the encounters per day expectation would likely help with CR a bit, as well.
As a player, I think I like being on the cusp of tier 3 (levels 9 & 10 are my fave) because you are just starting to scratch the surface of some really heavy-hitting abilities, but you aren't an actual demigod yet. Also, the subclasses really get into their groove and flavor.
As a DM...tier 2. Not only can the PCs take a decent punch and handle interesting beasties, they're not quite at the level where magic and class abilities make logistical challenges a non-issue. I enjoy some good old fashioned travel hardships and mundane dungeon traps. When you can just teleport places or Stoneshape your way around things, it takes some of the charm out of it.
As a player and a DM, I have a deep fondness for tier 1 play. I like the struggle to survive and the feeling of growing stronger with every level. And having both played and DMed level 20 characters, I like that the least for how overblown everything feels.
Warlocks spell slots tied to proficiency bonus. I'm absolutely fine with them having fewer spell slots, but the current progression is ridiculous for anything about 4th or 5th level.
Agreed. Eight combat encounters a day? They're either going to be so easy as to be boring or the party is going to end up dead and never make it to the next level, let alone the next town.
That would only make Warlock dips even worse. It could scale at the same rate as PB, but not tied directly to PB.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Encounters aren’t necessarily fights. I think they’re more defined like, something that makes you use resources. Like casting fly to get somewhere isn’t a fight, but does make you use a spell slot. But even then, I don’t think there’s as many a day as the design assumption.
I think it would be cool if sorcerers had a spellcaster's equivalent of a rage. Maybe give them advantage on Constitution or Charisma checks and saving throws, give them a bonus to spell damage rolls, and give them resistance to fire, cold, lightning, and force damage. I got that from looking at the Barbarian rage and converting it into something that would make more sense for a sorcerer, but it also could be different and not just a sort of copy of the barbarian's rage.
The farthest I have gotten as a player is level six, so I don't really know.
I agree with Caerwyn on this. I prefer middle levels, so level 5 to level 9. The characters still feel vulnerable and mortal, but they're powerful enough to feel like heroes. And it's also way easier to think of the consequences of these level of spells (like Eberron does) than higher level magic on worldbulding.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I enjoy low-level play, I enjoy mid-level play. Idk if I could pin one as my favorite. It's probably not high-level play in and of itself, but when you've been playing the characters up to that point, it is very rewarding to play those levels.