This might be just me, but I always saw web as the kind of spell you just throw out and forget about it. Maybe they dissipate after a time, but I never saw it as a spell you have to actively focus on to maintain. Does that make sense to anyone else? Summoning another creature, sure. Keeping a portal open, that's fine. But Web doesn't feel like the kind of spell that would need concentration. Is it really just a matter of mechanical balance that it has to be like this?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
It's a game balance issue, since it's such a large area control spell. Being able to stack it with another concentration spell would be SUPER powerful, you could shut down an entire combat in two turns.
From an in-universe perspective, it’s also rather low level to be creating something from nothing, particularly given the amount of space it can cover. Ergo it requires a constant stream of magic to maintain the material
Used in battle it would be very powerful for a wizard if he could first restrain an enemy and then the next round cast a high level attack spell on them and keep doing it in perfect safety.
Out of battle it could used to block tunnels for an hour. while letting the caster keep casting high level spells.
Making it a concentration spell just keeps the martial fighters viable.
Bah. I hate when spells are made weird and unorthodox for the sake of game balance. Really breaks me out of the game when I have to bend and twist backwards to explain why, when my character loses concentration, the webbing suddenly has to disappear.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
The vast majority of spell effects with nonzero duration are concentration; the anomaly is when things aren't. For higher level casters, web isn't a great way to use up your concentration, but concentration is typically not a big limiting factor for low level casters.
Bah. I hate when spells are made weird and unorthodox for the sake of game balance. Really breaks me out of the game when I have to bend and twist backwards to explain why, when my character loses concentration, the webbing suddenly has to disappear.
How is web different than any other concentration spell in that regard? Do you have the same problem with, say, darkness? Or suggestion?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Bah. I hate when spells are made weird and unorthodox for the sake of game balance. Really breaks me out of the game when I have to bend and twist backwards to explain why, when my character loses concentration, the webbing suddenly has to disappear.
How is web different than any other concentration spell in that regard? Do you have the same problem with, say, darkness? Or suggestion?
Because Web inflicts a fairly powerful status effect against a wide area. It can potentially shut down an entire group of enemies that lack ranged attacks and don't have good dexterity saves. Imagine if you could stack Web with, say Sickening Radiance?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Bah. I hate when spells are made weird and unorthodox for the sake of game balance. Really breaks me out of the game when I have to bend and twist backwards to explain why, when my character loses concentration, the webbing suddenly has to disappear.
How is web different than any other concentration spell in that regard? Do you have the same problem with, say, darkness? Or suggestion?
Because Web inflicts a fairly powerful status effect against a wide area. It can potentially shut down an entire group of enemies that lack ranged attacks and don't have good dexterity saves. Imagine if you could stack Web with, say Sickening Radiance?
That's not the question I asked
Someone felt it was weird that the webbing disappeared when they dropped concentration. I was asking them if they felt the same way about other concentration spells. Game balance is not the topic on the table
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Compare it to a similar non concentration spell like plant growth. Plant growth uses already existing vegetation to create a less powerful option with a higher level slot. So it makes sense from a game mechanics POV, but also its the case that something is being conjured out of nothing. That conjuration is what requires the concentration.
No, I don't have my suspension of disbelief broken when darkness or suggestion drop. Darkness makes more sense because it's less material and sort of just magical in nature, and suggestion is sort of you maintaining the charm through focus. Those make sense. I suppose my problem with web is that web is much more material. It's physically there and I just see it as something that you shoot out and it stays there. I can't wrap my brain around the idea of firing a glob of web and then it goes away when you stop thinking about it. It doesn't seem like that complex of a thing that would require focus. It's just sticky webbing.
As stated above, the only reason it requires concentration is likely for mechanical purposes, and I'm not not a big fan of when mechanics require that certain aspects of immersion be fudged for the sake of a balanced game. I'm not gonna go ranting about how it should be the other way, I get it. It just bothers me and I wish there was some middle ground between web not needing to be concentration but it not being so absurdly broken without it. It's just my brain, there's nothing wrong with the spell. I just got my thoughts all up in a way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
No, I don't have my suspension of disbelief broken when darkness or suggestion drop. Darkness makes more sense because it's less material and sort of just magical in nature, and suggestion is sort of you maintaining the charm through focus. Those make sense. I suppose my problem with web is that web is much more material. It's physically there and I just see it as something that you shoot out and it stays there. I can't wrap my brain around the idea of firing a glob of web and then it goes away when you stop thinking about it. It doesn't seem like that complex of a thing that would require focus. It's just sticky webbing.
As stated above, the only reason it requires concentration is likely for mechanical purposes, and I'm not not a big fan of when mechanics require that certain aspects of immersion be fudged for the sake of a balanced game. I'm not gonna go ranting about how it should be the other way, I get it. It just bothers me and I wish there was some middle ground between web not needing to be concentration but it not being so absurdly broken without it. It's just my brain, there's nothing wrong with the spell. I just got my thoughts all up in a way.
I'm not sure how it's immersion breaking, within the confines of the D&D system. It takes Wish itself for a spell to create anything truly permanent from nothing besides water. I suppose you could argue the food from Create Food and Water is permanent as well, but since it spoils after 24 hours it seems reasonable to assume the matter it's made from will eventually break down and discorporate as well. And, regardless, the point remains that a review of the spells and abilities of 5e very clearly indicates that permanently creating something from nothing is, outside of one or two narrow exceptions for Divine magic, magic of the absolute highest order. So how is it immersion breaking that a 2nd level spell isn't capable of doing something that a 5th level spell can only manage for a day at best?
Web is a concentration spell because it restricts the movement of creatures within an area. It creates a web of strands that entangle creatures, making it difficult for them to move. The web also blocks line of sight, making it difficult for creatures to target each other with ranged attacks. The spell can be broken by dealing a certain amount of damage to the web, or by casting a spell such as dispel magic.
Web is a concentration spell because it restricts the movement of creatures within an area. It creates a web of strands that entangle creatures, making it difficult for them to move. The web also blocks line of sight, making it difficult for creatures to target each other with ranged attacks. The spell can be broken by dealing a certain amount of damage to the web, or by casting a spell such as dispel magic.
The webs only lightly obscure. Grappling also restricts movement, but requires no concentration. A Net restricts movement, but requires no concentration and can be broken by dealing a certain amount of damage to the net. Grappling and the net can be re-used infinitely, assuming the net is not broken, of course. The spell needs an available spell slot.
You're replying to a chatbot that can't even get the rules right
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As stated above, the only reason it requires concentration is likely for mechanical purposes, and I'm not not a big fan of when mechanics require that certain aspects of immersion be fudged for the sake of a balanced game.
Mechanics aside, this is only immersion-breaking because you've decided how the spell works in-world and it doesn't fit that arbitrary decision.
Web is a conjuration that requires concentration. This means the material is magical and unnatural, and it takes effort to keep it on this plane where it would not otherwise exist. You can think of it as constantly replenishing the eroding material or just focusing to keep it from eroding in the first place. But the point is that this is magic, not material engineering. You are not whipping up a batch of sticky goo out of earthly materials and then tossing it out over an area, you are magically conjuring it.
Mechanics don't have to get in the way of immersion because you have 100% control over how to describe a spell and thus you can choose whether your description fits the mechanics or not. A part of the creativity involved in D&D is figuring out descriptions of in-world behavior that match the mechanics, and it's clear from the replies here that many other people don't have a problem doing this for web.
The idea of someone needing to concentrate on a spell after it has been cast is a bit strange and wonky. However it is a part of myths, legends, and science fiction stories that existed even before Gary Gygax and his friends created D&D. Plus it is reasonable to believe that the spell was crafted in this way partially to allow the caster to end the effect at the moment they want it to end. As well as the general law of magic that the longer the duration the more magical power is needed to maintain a give effect.
Why not have a magic weapon spell make the weapon magical forever?
Why waste and action and spell slot on conjuring a blade of flame or shadow, instead of having it remain until dispelled?
I know there were some significant problems with the magic item creation rules for 3e, but they did have a very nice foundation that should have been improved upon for 5e.
If you are trying to make a character that shoots webs out like a Giant Spider without having to wildshape into a spider, perhaps come up with a magical item that create the effect. Price it like a wand for a second level spell with a few charges that can be randomly recovered during a long rest.
I could also see creating a new class that creates long lasting effects without concentration, but they are very weak until you have access to high level spell slots.
The idea of someone needing to concentrate on a spell after it has been cast is a bit strange and wonky. However it is a part of myths, legends, and science fiction stories that existed even before Gary Gygax and his friends created D&D. Plus it is reasonable to believe that the spell was crafted in this way partially to allow the caster to end the effect at the moment they want it to end. As well as the general law of magic that the longer the duration the more magical power is needed to maintain a give effect.
Why not have a magic weapon spell make the weapon magical forever?
Why waste and action and spell slot on conjuring a blade of flame or shadow, instead of having it remain until dispelled?
I know there were some significant problems with the magic item creation rules for 3e, but they did have a very nice foundation that should have been improved upon for 5e.
If you are trying to make a character that shoots webs out like a Giant Spider without having to wildshape into a spider, perhaps come up with a magical item that create the effect. Price it like a wand for a second level spell with a few charges that can be randomly recovered during a long rest.
I could also see creating a new class that creates long lasting effects without concentration, but they are very weak until you have access to high level spell slots.
There are spells to make weapons magical forever. It is called 'Enchanting.' 5e gives only the barest hints as to how to make such work and needs some practical examples, but the process suggested is very similar to that in prior editions.
There are also plenty of examples in myth, legend and literature of spells that endure long after the caster's death, that are not simply 'dispelled,' but rather need some sort of complex process or correct conditions to dismantle.
Enchanting and spellcasting are two very different matters, and keep in mind that creating a magic item requires a magical component of comparable strength to the effect you're producing, so it's less the magic is cast once and done and more that the component serves to power and give structure to the effect. And saying "examples exist in other works" is not really a moot point to this discussion. There's dozens if not hundreds of different iterations of what a magic system is out there, and none of them invalidate another system that takes a different approach simply by merit of their existence.
Enchanting and spellcasting are two very different matters, and keep in mind that creating a magic item requires a magical component of comparable strength to the effect you're producing, so it's less the magic is cast once and done and more that the component serves to power and give structure to the effect. And saying "examples exist in other works" is not really a moot point to this discussion. There's dozens if not hundreds of different iterations of what a magic system is out there, and none of them invalidate another system that takes a different approach simply by merit of their existence.
Web: V, S, M
* - (a bit of spiderweb)
The entire magic system is based on a concept of sympathetic magic, with the relationship between casting components anchoring the final result.
Look, we can argue semantics about this until the cows come home. Part of the reason Web and the vast majority of spells like it are concentration is game balance, but there is also an internal consistency to it as well. Apparently it’s not how you would have done it, but that alone does not discredit the design choice.
I don't intend to discredit the design choice by posting this, It's just a weird thing in my brain that I can see a spell like entangle and think "Okay yeah, that makes sense" but then I see web and think "Wait, that doesn't make sense."
I didn't mean to make people fight or argue. I was curious why a spell had concentration when I thought it was odd that it did. Just including a small sentence like in entangle about how it goes away after concentration is broken or the spell ends might've helped. Hard to tell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This might be just me, but I always saw web as the kind of spell you just throw out and forget about it. Maybe they dissipate after a time, but I never saw it as a spell you have to actively focus on to maintain. Does that make sense to anyone else? Summoning another creature, sure. Keeping a portal open, that's fine. But Web doesn't feel like the kind of spell that would need concentration. Is it really just a matter of mechanical balance that it has to be like this?
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
It's a game balance issue, since it's such a large area control spell. Being able to stack it with another concentration spell would be SUPER powerful, you could shut down an entire combat in two turns.
From an in-universe perspective, it’s also rather low level to be creating something from nothing, particularly given the amount of space it can cover. Ergo it requires a constant stream of magic to maintain the material
My only guess is for combat balance.
Used in battle it would be very powerful for a wizard if he could first restrain an enemy and then the next round cast a high level attack spell on them and keep doing it in perfect safety.
Out of battle it could used to block tunnels for an hour. while letting the caster keep casting high level spells.
Making it a concentration spell just keeps the martial fighters viable.
Bah. I hate when spells are made weird and unorthodox for the sake of game balance. Really breaks me out of the game when I have to bend and twist backwards to explain why, when my character loses concentration, the webbing suddenly has to disappear.
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
The vast majority of spell effects with nonzero duration are concentration; the anomaly is when things aren't. For higher level casters, web isn't a great way to use up your concentration, but concentration is typically not a big limiting factor for low level casters.
How is web different than any other concentration spell in that regard? Do you have the same problem with, say, darkness? Or suggestion?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Because Web inflicts a fairly powerful status effect against a wide area. It can potentially shut down an entire group of enemies that lack ranged attacks and don't have good dexterity saves. Imagine if you could stack Web with, say Sickening Radiance?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's not the question I asked
Someone felt it was weird that the webbing disappeared when they dropped concentration. I was asking them if they felt the same way about other concentration spells. Game balance is not the topic on the table
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
They're magical webs. When you stop concentrating, the magic gets disrupted and the webs melt away. I don't see what's so incredible about this.
Compare it to a similar non concentration spell like plant growth. Plant growth uses already existing vegetation to create a less powerful option with a higher level slot. So it makes sense from a game mechanics POV, but also its the case that something is being conjured out of nothing. That conjuration is what requires the concentration.
No, I don't have my suspension of disbelief broken when darkness or suggestion drop. Darkness makes more sense because it's less material and sort of just magical in nature, and suggestion is sort of you maintaining the charm through focus. Those make sense. I suppose my problem with web is that web is much more material. It's physically there and I just see it as something that you shoot out and it stays there. I can't wrap my brain around the idea of firing a glob of web and then it goes away when you stop thinking about it. It doesn't seem like that complex of a thing that would require focus. It's just sticky webbing.
As stated above, the only reason it requires concentration is likely for mechanical purposes, and I'm not not a big fan of when mechanics require that certain aspects of immersion be fudged for the sake of a balanced game. I'm not gonna go ranting about how it should be the other way, I get it. It just bothers me and I wish there was some middle ground between web not needing to be concentration but it not being so absurdly broken without it. It's just my brain, there's nothing wrong with the spell. I just got my thoughts all up in a way.
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.
I'm not sure how it's immersion breaking, within the confines of the D&D system. It takes Wish itself for a spell to create anything truly permanent from nothing besides water. I suppose you could argue the food from Create Food and Water is permanent as well, but since it spoils after 24 hours it seems reasonable to assume the matter it's made from will eventually break down and discorporate as well. And, regardless, the point remains that a review of the spells and abilities of 5e very clearly indicates that permanently creating something from nothing is, outside of one or two narrow exceptions for Divine magic, magic of the absolute highest order. So how is it immersion breaking that a 2nd level spell isn't capable of doing something that a 5th level spell can only manage for a day at best?
Web is a concentration spell because it restricts the movement of creatures within an area. It creates a web of strands that entangle creatures, making it difficult for them to move. The web also blocks line of sight, making it difficult for creatures to target each other with ranged attacks. The spell can be broken by dealing a certain amount of damage to the web, or by casting a spell such as dispel magic.
You're replying to a chatbot that can't even get the rules right
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Mechanics aside, this is only immersion-breaking because you've decided how the spell works in-world and it doesn't fit that arbitrary decision.
Web is a conjuration that requires concentration. This means the material is magical and unnatural, and it takes effort to keep it on this plane where it would not otherwise exist. You can think of it as constantly replenishing the eroding material or just focusing to keep it from eroding in the first place. But the point is that this is magic, not material engineering. You are not whipping up a batch of sticky goo out of earthly materials and then tossing it out over an area, you are magically conjuring it.
Mechanics don't have to get in the way of immersion because you have 100% control over how to describe a spell and thus you can choose whether your description fits the mechanics or not. A part of the creativity involved in D&D is figuring out descriptions of in-world behavior that match the mechanics, and it's clear from the replies here that many other people don't have a problem doing this for web.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The idea of someone needing to concentrate on a spell after it has been cast is a bit strange and wonky. However it is a part of myths, legends, and science fiction stories that existed even before Gary Gygax and his friends created D&D. Plus it is reasonable to believe that the spell was crafted in this way partially to allow the caster to end the effect at the moment they want it to end. As well as the general law of magic that the longer the duration the more magical power is needed to maintain a give effect.
Why not have a magic weapon spell make the weapon magical forever?
Why waste and action and spell slot on conjuring a blade of flame or shadow, instead of having it remain until dispelled?
I know there were some significant problems with the magic item creation rules for 3e, but they did have a very nice foundation that should have been improved upon for 5e.
If you are trying to make a character that shoots webs out like a Giant Spider without having to wildshape into a spider, perhaps come up with a magical item that create the effect. Price it like a wand for a second level spell with a few charges that can be randomly recovered during a long rest.
I could also see creating a new class that creates long lasting effects without concentration, but they are very weak until you have access to high level spell slots.
Enchanting and spellcasting are two very different matters, and keep in mind that creating a magic item requires a magical component of comparable strength to the effect you're producing, so it's less the magic is cast once and done and more that the component serves to power and give structure to the effect. And saying "examples exist in other works" is not really a moot point to this discussion. There's dozens if not hundreds of different iterations of what a magic system is out there, and none of them invalidate another system that takes a different approach simply by merit of their existence.
Look, we can argue semantics about this until the cows come home. Part of the reason Web and the vast majority of spells like it are concentration is game balance, but there is also an internal consistency to it as well. Apparently it’s not how you would have done it, but that alone does not discredit the design choice.
I don't intend to discredit the design choice by posting this, It's just a weird thing in my brain that I can see a spell like entangle and think "Okay yeah, that makes sense" but then I see web and think "Wait, that doesn't make sense."
I didn't mean to make people fight or argue. I was curious why a spell had concentration when I thought it was odd that it did. Just including a small sentence like in entangle about how it goes away after concentration is broken or the spell ends might've helped. Hard to tell.
Hey y'all, I'm Okashido and I'm super into D&D. I like making characters(to the point where I have a doc about 100 pages long filled with character ideas.), am an aspiring actor in college, and also consider myself a storyteller and actor at the table. I enjoy making characters with backstories and watching them play off of other people. I roll with the punches and am a great Improviser. I can DM, but think my strengths lay in being a Player most. Hope we can all have fun and maybe play some games.