See title above. Before resorting to homebrew, I wanted to see if there was some way to become a lich/some monster equivalent to a lich, for sorcerers.
Yeah, to start with lichdom is not really intended as a player option, so if you're looking to actually play as a lich, it's already homebrew territory. Regarding the exact mechanics of spells and suchlike, as there's not single defined process the exact details can be justified/handwaved however the DM wants. Now, if you actually want the lich to have sorcerer features after the fact, that's a bit trickier. If nothing else, you're at least upping the CR by a bit if you give them metamagic. Unfortunately, I don't think sorcerers get much support in terms of NPC statblocks. Granted, as of MotM, anything short of a terribly dull combat bot doesn't get much stat block support for casters, but that's another matter.
Lich is not a PC option and the Sorcerer class is not a monster option. So if you're a PC looking to become a lich, you're going to need homebrew regardless of what class you are. If you're a DM creating a lich's backstory, then you just make it up the same way you make up any backstory.
Not sure what lore references Imprisonment, but that's just one story about how a lich is made. There is no hard canon procedure written down for how it is done and I would expect it to vary based on the setting and group.
Not sure what lore references Imprisonment, but that's just one story about how a lich is made. There is no hard canon procedure written down for how it is done and I would expect it to vary based on the setting and group.
I believe the OP is referring to the lich description which says “A lich must periodically feed souls to its phylactery to sustain the magic preserving its body and consciousness. It does this using the imprisonmentspell.”
To answer the OP question, without homebrew, you’d have to find a friendly wizard or warlock to cast the spell for you. But even then, you’re getting into homebrew territory. Since it says
“Instead of choosing one of the normal options of the spell, the lich uses the spell to magically trap the target’s body and soul inside its phylactery.”
Seems like you imprison someone in your own phylactery, not someone else’s. So a sorcerer is probably going to need some kind of homebrewing.
Not sure what lore references Imprisonment, but that's just one story about how a lich is made. There is no hard canon procedure written down for how it is done and I would expect it to vary based on the setting and group.
Imprisonment is what they use to capture the souls they need to consume to sustain themselves, but them being able to cast that post-transformation is something that can just be handwaved.
There is an actual ritual. Not a pleasant one, mind. Also, not one that's in the rules - I think, because it's so decidedly unpleasant. But anyways, as I've been given to understand it, this is how you become a lich (spoilered for general unpleasantness):
You need a deadly poison, an unholy sacrificial dagger, the jar, and the ritual spell to bind your soul. Then, within a magic circle dedicated to the dark powers below and beyond, you drink the poison. The poison will kill you, but before it does, you use the dagger to cut out your own still-beating heart, and place it in the jar (mind, this will also kill you). Then you cast the ritual, binding your soul to your still-beating heart, seal it within the jar. And then, you die. Finally, one might feel.
Get all of that right, and you will rise again as an undead lich. Unsurprisingly, most don't actually succeed.
The ritual can be completed by anyone. So in principle - again, this is not in the rules - you could just as well be a melee lich.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that anyone can do it from. The lore is very solid that you have to be a pretty potent caster already to attempt the process.
Just about any spellcaster can become a lich. It's not really as much of a "Wizards only" club.
A little yes and a little no. So if you mean a "Lich", specifically, then it's a Wizard thing without True Poly shenanigans (see above). This is due to the line for the Lich monster: "Liches are the remains of great wizards who embrace undeath as a means of preserving themselves.". But if not being specific and thinking of other lichs then yes, Druids can become Lichen Lichs and warlocks can become Eldritch Lichs.
Bit baffling though, really, as Wizards have far better options for longevity than becoming a Lich.
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Not sure where you're getting the idea that anyone can do it from. The lore is very solid that you have to be a pretty potent caster already to attempt the process.
I agree with you. also I think that Lich is not a PC option and the Sorcerer class is not a monster option. So if you're a PC looking to become a lich, you're going to need homebrew regardless of what class you are.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that anyone can do it from. The lore is very solid that you have to be a pretty potent caster already to attempt the process.
Well - the rules only really have a description of a monster. But just like unicorns or hippogriffs, liches aren't a D&D invention, they're ... mythological. Now, I'm by no means any expert, but what I'm trying to describe is the mythology behind the entry in the monster manual. And that ritual has nothing to do with being a spell caster.
Like I said, I'm no expert, and I can't point you to a scientific treatise that details the exact origin of this. Also, as I said, this isn't anything that's reflected in the rules, all the rules have to say on the matter is the monster entry.
So, the real world lore on which the D&D lore is based would allow anyone could perform the ritual, and become .. well, undead. It wouldn't make you a caster, of course. But then again, in the real world, there are no casters, and the ritual would only make you dead.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you want a DIY Lich then just use Wish for Clone. If you're playing with optional sorcerer features, create your Clone in a Demiplane so it can't be destroyed; just make sure you have Plane Shift to get out of the Demiplane if you die.
Any day that goes by where you don't use your 8th and 9th level spells, create another Clone in a Demiplane. You'll be effectively immortal once you have enough matured clones.
Flavor the Demiplane/Clone combo however you like.
Are you trying to make a playable character or are you making an NPC for a campaign who's history is a Sorcerer that became a Lich?
The playable character would probably be a hard "No". For an NPC, there are ways to fit the Lich mythos to work with just about any arcane caster. The question is if you want to use the generic Lich slots or you want to make a new monster stat block for a Lich NPC.
I'm sure there are many different ways to do it in the lore, but there is a published 5e adventure with rules for becoming a Lich. It requires one to be capable of casting 9th-level wizard spells (which is outside the scope of the adventure), and if you somehow do it anyway, the DM gains control of your newly transformed Lich.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that anyone can do it from. The lore is very solid that you have to be a pretty potent caster already to attempt the process.
Well - the rules only really have a description of a monster. But just like unicorns or hippogriffs, liches aren't a D&D invention, they're ... mythological. Now, I'm by no means any expert, but what I'm trying to describe is the mythology behind the entry in the monster manual. And that ritual has nothing to do with being a spell caster.
Like I said, I'm no expert, and I can't point you to a scientific treatise that details the exact origin of this. Also, as I said, this isn't anything that's reflected in the rules, all the rules have to say on the matter is the monster entry.
So, the real world lore on which the D&D lore is based would allow anyone could perform the ritual, and become .. well, undead. It wouldn't make you a caster, of course. But then again, in the real world, there are no casters, and the ritual would only make you dead.
im not a leading expert in this field but to my knowledge the lich has it's origins in mythology but unlike hippogriffs and unicorns is not outright yoinked from one mythology or another and is a bunch of traits in common with various different mythological creatures mixed together with a bit of dnd game design
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
It would be interesting to see a Sorcerous Lich that was just a cloud of unrestricted raw magical energy. Like a Living Spell but a whole spell list instead of just one.
im not a leading expert in this field but to my knowledge the lich has it's origins in mythology but unlike hippogriffs and unicorns is not outright yoinked from one mythology or another and is a bunch of traits in common with various different mythological creatures mixed together with a bit of dnd game design
Well - I don't know any better than you do. I've seen the method described a couple of places, independent of each other, but neither has given a precise origin for it.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Ironically, one of the places you won't find the ritual(s)/methods of becoming a lich described is in The Book of Vile Darkness (the actual 3.5e published book) even though in D&D lore the fictional version of the book is exactly (one of the places) where the secret is kept. So much for my own personal transformation plans.
I do wonder if the character Koschei from Russian folklore was part of the inspiration for liches in D&D (see the "needle, inside an egg, etc." bit).
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See title above. Before resorting to homebrew, I wanted to see if there was some way to become a lich/some monster equivalent to a lich, for sorcerers.
E
Just about any spellcaster can become a lich. It's not really as much of a "Wizards only" club.
How, though? And how would they maintain their existence without access to the Imprisonment spell?
E
There aren't really RAW rules for becoming a lich, so ye best start believing in homebrew... yer in one!
Yeah, to start with lichdom is not really intended as a player option, so if you're looking to actually play as a lich, it's already homebrew territory. Regarding the exact mechanics of spells and suchlike, as there's not single defined process the exact details can be justified/handwaved however the DM wants. Now, if you actually want the lich to have sorcerer features after the fact, that's a bit trickier. If nothing else, you're at least upping the CR by a bit if you give them metamagic. Unfortunately, I don't think sorcerers get much support in terms of NPC statblocks. Granted, as of MotM, anything short of a terribly dull combat bot doesn't get much stat block support for casters, but that's another matter.
Lich is not a PC option and the Sorcerer class is not a monster option. So if you're a PC looking to become a lich, you're going to need homebrew regardless of what class you are. If you're a DM creating a lich's backstory, then you just make it up the same way you make up any backstory.
Not sure what lore references Imprisonment, but that's just one story about how a lich is made. There is no hard canon procedure written down for how it is done and I would expect it to vary based on the setting and group.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I believe the OP is referring to the lich description which says “A lich must periodically feed souls to its phylactery to sustain the magic preserving its body and consciousness. It does this using the imprisonmentspell.”
To answer the OP question, without homebrew, you’d have to find a friendly wizard or warlock to cast the spell for you. But even then, you’re getting into homebrew territory. Since it says
“Instead of choosing one of the normal options of the spell, the lich uses the spell to magically trap the target’s body and soul inside its phylactery.”
Seems like you imprison someone in your own phylactery, not someone else’s. So a sorcerer is probably going to need some kind of homebrewing.
Imprisonment is what they use to capture the souls they need to consume to sustain themselves, but them being able to cast that post-transformation is something that can just be handwaved.
There is an actual ritual. Not a pleasant one, mind. Also, not one that's in the rules - I think, because it's so decidedly unpleasant. But anyways, as I've been given to understand it, this is how you become a lich (spoilered for general unpleasantness):
You need a deadly poison, an unholy sacrificial dagger, the jar, and the ritual spell to bind your soul. Then, within a magic circle dedicated to the dark powers below and beyond, you drink the poison. The poison will kill you, but before it does, you use the dagger to cut out your own still-beating heart, and place it in the jar (mind, this will also kill you). Then you cast the ritual, binding your soul to your still-beating heart, seal it within the jar. And then, you die. Finally, one might feel.
Get all of that right, and you will rise again as an undead lich. Unsurprisingly, most don't actually succeed.
The ritual can be completed by anyone. So in principle - again, this is not in the rules - you could just as well be a melee lich.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that anyone can do it from. The lore is very solid that you have to be a pretty potent caster already to attempt the process.
True Poly into a Demilich. With help trap and feed a soul into phylactery. You become a lich. Or true poly into a Lichen Lich or Eldritch Lich.
Either case - voila, you are a Sorcerer that became a lich of some kind.
A little yes and a little no. So if you mean a "Lich", specifically, then it's a Wizard thing without True Poly shenanigans (see above). This is due to the line for the Lich monster: "Liches are the remains of great wizards who embrace undeath as a means of preserving themselves.". But if not being specific and thinking of other lichs then yes, Druids can become Lichen Lichs and warlocks can become Eldritch Lichs.
Bit baffling though, really, as Wizards have far better options for longevity than becoming a Lich.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I agree with you. also I think that Lich is not a PC option and the Sorcerer class is not a monster option. So if you're a PC looking to become a lich, you're going to need homebrew regardless of what class you are.
Well - the rules only really have a description of a monster. But just like unicorns or hippogriffs, liches aren't a D&D invention, they're ... mythological. Now, I'm by no means any expert, but what I'm trying to describe is the mythology behind the entry in the monster manual. And that ritual has nothing to do with being a spell caster.
Like I said, I'm no expert, and I can't point you to a scientific treatise that details the exact origin of this. Also, as I said, this isn't anything that's reflected in the rules, all the rules have to say on the matter is the monster entry.
So, the real world lore on which the D&D lore is based would allow anyone could perform the ritual, and become .. well, undead. It wouldn't make you a caster, of course. But then again, in the real world, there are no casters, and the ritual would only make you dead.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you want a DIY Lich then just use Wish for Clone. If you're playing with optional sorcerer features, create your Clone in a Demiplane so it can't be destroyed; just make sure you have Plane Shift to get out of the Demiplane if you die.
Any day that goes by where you don't use your 8th and 9th level spells, create another Clone in a Demiplane. You'll be effectively immortal once you have enough matured clones.
Flavor the Demiplane/Clone combo however you like.
Are you trying to make a playable character or are you making an NPC for a campaign who's history is a Sorcerer that became a Lich?
The playable character would probably be a hard "No". For an NPC, there are ways to fit the Lich mythos to work with just about any arcane caster. The question is if you want to use the generic Lich slots or you want to make a new monster stat block for a Lich NPC.
I'm sure there are many different ways to do it in the lore, but there is a published 5e adventure with rules for becoming a Lich. It requires one to be capable of casting 9th-level wizard spells (which is outside the scope of the adventure), and if you somehow do it anyway, the DM gains control of your newly transformed Lich.
im not a leading expert in this field but to my knowledge the lich has it's origins in mythology but unlike hippogriffs and unicorns is not outright yoinked from one mythology or another and is a bunch of traits in common with various different mythological creatures mixed together with a bit of dnd game design
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
It would be interesting to see a Sorcerous Lich that was just a cloud of unrestricted raw magical energy. Like a Living Spell but a whole spell list instead of just one.
Well - I don't know any better than you do. I've seen the method described a couple of places, independent of each other, but neither has given a precise origin for it.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Ironically, one of the places you won't find the ritual(s)/methods of becoming a lich described is in The Book of Vile Darkness (the actual 3.5e published book) even though in D&D lore the fictional version of the book is exactly (one of the places) where the secret is kept. So much for my own personal transformation plans.
I do wonder if the character Koschei from Russian folklore was part of the inspiration for liches in D&D (see the "needle, inside an egg, etc." bit).