Firstly, by big components I’m referring to one’s that cost 100 GP or more. I’m honestly very curious about this. Most groups from my own personal experience have not used spell components and I don’t believe many of the Twitch/YouTube Campaigns have either. I can’t recall if Campaign 3 of Critical Role is using spell components (lost interest after episode 50’ish (can’t say why)) but I remember Campaign 2 being pretty religious about it. Most of the published adventures make it nearly impossible from a quick read through, especially for a Cleric and Wizard in the same party. Overall spell components have limited party choice in those games, and that seems to destroy fun. Anyway, just let me know and if you do, can you say why?
For the campaigns I run I have players track material components with a gold value (even nominal gold values), but otherwise do not make them track it. That firmly falls into one of those “it might be flavourful, but it is also busywork and I will not force a player to do that if they do not find it fun” situations.
I fully intend to track my spell components if I ever get the chance to be a player again - but that would be for my own enjoyment, not because I expect a DM to impose that rule.
If I recall correctly, CR campaign 2 seemed to follow this rule - Caleb made a big deal about spell components because Liam seems to find it fun, but their other spellcasters did not.
Yes, all the party members seemed to track their spell components in CR Campaign 2 (lots of party wealth lost to pearls and diamonds) but Liam was the most fastidious by far. I’m not exactly against incorporating spell components into my own games (I’m the DM) but I am very concerned about it’s impact on player fun. Also, how much will I have to adjust things in a published campaign to even make multiple spellcasters possible? I don’t want to tell a group what classes they can and can’t play, but going strictly by the Treasure handed out that could very well be something I might have to consider.
I do not think it would be too much of a problem - most spell components are small, relatively insignificant items that wouldn’t show up in a loot table. Really easy to add them to a loot table without breaking it. To be frank, I think it would be so easy to add without causing much game balance issues, that saying “I would rather limit your class options than insignificantly adjust some loot tables” would be problematic DMing.
In 40 years of playing, never. We've talked about it recently but the outlandish examples for daily use spells either require a) that characters spend oodles of downtime looking for weird stuff that would slow everything down, b) some sort of industry to produce/market spell ingredients that we found just a money drain, or c) that scarcity of ingredients qould render spell casters at least temporarily limited.
A good example is the listed spell component for the 1st lvl Warlock spell Hex - a much used spell at least at low levels: the perified eye of a newt. If the warlock should be stocked up for a good week of adventuring, that would require some 20-30 petrified eyes of newts. I know nothing of prehistoric newts, but I do know that petrified fossils are rare. So, for the 1st level warlock to find, among all the fossils he found that month, 20-30 eyes of newts, that would seem rather strange. And what happens if the party is on an aquatic adventure?
I also do not know of a process that can turn the eye of a newt into a petrified eye of newt (other than casting flesh to stone on a newt) with medieval tech, so industrial production seems out as well. That leaves restricting the warlock from using possibly his best offensive 1st level spell to once in a blue moon after a succesful trip rooting out fossils.
So, we're using spell focus and dropping the mundane ingredients because otherwise the whole thing falls apart
My experience is yhese are generally ignored, they can be replaced with a focus and I assume a component pouch contains all the components needed. If they are captured and their component pouch taken away that is a different matter
Items consumed no gold cost
Only example I can think of is blood from a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours. I like this, summoning demons should not be like otherc spells, it requires the PC to be edgy. Nt sure if
Items not consumed with gold cost
This is adhered to on most or all the tables I have played. You can not cast identify from day one and gives an early incentive to get the item or the gold to buy it. Generally these spells are a bit more powerful than others of the same level.
Items consumed with gold cost
I believe there absolutely needs to be a reason not to cast divination every day and for there to be a cost to being raised from the dead or continually sending your familiar on suicidal missions. I have played on tables where you can just dedct the gold amount when you cast it but I prefer to have to consider how much I need to stock up on before I next go somewhere I can buy more..
I think you've gotta be more specific with your question. My table follows the rules on spell components to the letter. But we don't have players going around on weird shopping trips for bat guano. Why? Well, because all the basics are included in a component pouch. They don't need to get bat guano, but they do need to get diamond dust.
We don't usually bother saying "I pull out a handful of bat guano," but we do need a free hand. So the Wizard can't cast Fireball while hanging on a cliff and holding a magic wand.
A good example is the listed spell component for the 1st lvl Warlock spell Hex - a much used spell at least at low levels: the perified eye of a newt. If the warlock should be stocked up for a good week of adventuring, that would require some 20-30 petrified eyes of newts.
The component isn't consumed in the casting unless it says it is. A single eye would last your whole career.
I also do not know of a process that can turn the eye of a newt into a petrified eye of newt (other than casting flesh to stone on a newt) with medieval tech, so industrial production seems out as well.
Evidently not, because you can get the eye, plus a whole host of other useful and peculiar ingredients, at the low cost of 1 component pouch.
All my campaigns follow RAW, so I'm tracking any consumable spell component, and anything with a gold cost. Mostly this means incense for divination spells, though the DM is pretty liberal about allowing my herbalism kit proficiency to allow me to harvest and prepare incense myself for a lower cost. Also the ranger that I was playing since before Tasha's allowed a ranger to use a spellcasting focus -- there, at least, most of the components were the type that would be in a component bag, but I did still have to check.
Yeah, I don’t really see where the “issue” of basic components comes from; if it doesn’t have a gp value and/or is not consumed, then the appropriate focus or a component pouch has you covered, with maybe one or two special exceptions (the vial of blood from a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours for the XGtE demon summoning spells can technically be substituted with a focus, but you can’t make the protective circle in that case). You explicitly do not need to find or track the components unless you don’t have the pouch/focus, which exist in part to allow for spellcasters to be “disarmed” and have to work off a more limited arsenal. And if your DM is making it difficult to lay hands on items that are a part of the starting gear for every caster class, that’s a DM/table issue.
What Choir said. There are built-in rules to hand-wave things like finding an eye of newt. This alone makes component access trivial for 95% of spells
But components have a lot of other rules attached to them. What you can carry in your hands, what you can cast when you've been imprisoned without your gear, what you can cast while within the effect of silence, how detectable you are by others when casting, etc. We follow all of that with a couple caviats -
Chromatic Orb's diamond requirement is dumb and arbitrary and sorcerers are already punished enough in this edition.
We rule you can use a hand with a focus to satisfy the somatic component even if there is no material component because it's common sense.
So yes, we use spell components. But no, we don't narrate ourselves rummaging around for a bit of wool or piece of wire every time we cast. Just maybe very occasionally when we're feeling plucky.
The somatic rule is only relevant for gish casters doing TWF or using a shield, so personally I think it’s a good balancing factor; it’s also not hard to handle with free actions
I only require my players to tract for the very powerful spells, ones with a unit cost.. but as a player, I don't track that at all, just the spell slots, unless the DM requires it.
Magic is tedious, and having to use materials makes it feel like the magic isn't really apart of you, when it should be. Especially for Sorcerers and Druids.
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Enjoy your slop. I'll be enjoying good products elsewhere.
The somatic rule is only relevant for gish casters doing TWF or using a shield, so personally I think it’s a good balancing factor; it’s also not hard to handle with free actions
Gish casters with TWF hardly need a "balancing factor." They're already in a pretty bad spot. And if Paladins can cast with a weapon and shield, why does it need to be "balanced" when a Ranger or EK try it?
It doesn't serve to balance strong builds. It serves to nerf builds that were barely viable in the first place. Not everything is a Hexblade, and most of those use Paladin's loophole anyway.
The somatic rule is only relevant for gish casters doing TWF or using a shield, so personally I think it’s a good balancing factor; it’s also not hard to handle with free actions
Gish casters with TWF hardly need a "balancing factor." They're already in a pretty bad spot. And if Paladins can cast with a weapon and shield, why does it need to be "balanced" when a Ranger or EK try it?
It doesn't serve to balance strong builds. It serves to nerf builds that were barely viable in the first place. Not everything is a Hexblade, and most of those use Paladin's loophole anyway.
Paladins still need to put away their weapon to cast a VS or S spell. Really, the only meaningful effect in most instances is that you can't make an AoO with your weapon until the round's come back to you, which is still meaningful enough to be worth tracking. No one is getting special treatment by applying a very basic part of spellcasting RAW.
Does anyone here think ‘Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk’ will take into account the monetary cost for having multiple spellcasters in the party? My experience with the published adventures says no, that players will have to do some serious scavenging to the point of taking everything that isn’t nailed down to both afford regular day to day items as well as feed their daily spell requirements.
Also, yes, I know many of us have no plan on picking up an adventure that by all appearances contains 5 levels worth of recycled material. I am considering it - depending on reviews - because I never played or DM’d any of it previously and I just want new material that extends for more than a barely connected series of one shots. A little spark prior to my own homebrew, and the last new adventure was Rime of the Frostmaiden which already feels played out (and never seemed that interesting to me once I actually cracked it open).
Its not hard and it adds flavor. Most common components can be found almost any place. I can pick them up while walking for the most part.Or even buy them in a local market.
The expensive consumed ones are that way to keep balance. Would it be good if a "Hero's feast" could be cast on the party every day? Not so much.
Stuff like a feather for Feather Fall is easy. Buy a chicken wing with the feathers and skin still on it. Pin it to your hat. As for wire wrap a bunch into a bracelet. Wool can be the padding for your backpack straps. Things can be added or included into your gear and equipment.
As for that component pouch I think of them more like a magic pouch that brings to the top the component you ask for, You still need to fill it with everything you will eventually need.
Its not hard and it adds flavor. Most common components can be found almost any place. I can pick them up while walking for the most part.Or even buy them in a local market.
The expensive consumed ones are that way to keep balance. Would it be good if a "Hero's feast" could be cast on the party every day? Not so much.
Stuff like a feather for Feather Fall is easy. Buy a chicken wing with the feathers and skin still on it. Pin it to your hat. As for wire wrap a bunch into a bracelet. Wool can be the padding for your backpack straps. Things can be added or included into your gear and equipment.
As for that component pouch I think of them more like a magic pouch that brings to the top the component you ask for, You still need to fill it with everything you will eventually need.
How exactly do foci fit in, then, when they can eliminate the majority of components and typically cost less than a component pouch?
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Firstly, by big components I’m referring to one’s that cost 100 GP or more. I’m honestly very curious about this. Most groups from my own personal experience have not used spell components and I don’t believe many of the Twitch/YouTube Campaigns have either. I can’t recall if Campaign 3 of Critical Role is using spell components (lost interest after episode 50’ish (can’t say why)) but I remember Campaign 2 being pretty religious about it. Most of the published adventures make it nearly impossible from a quick read through, especially for a Cleric and Wizard in the same party. Overall spell components have limited party choice in those games, and that seems to destroy fun. Anyway, just let me know and if you do, can you say why?
For the campaigns I run I have players track material components with a gold value (even nominal gold values), but otherwise do not make them track it. That firmly falls into one of those “it might be flavourful, but it is also busywork and I will not force a player to do that if they do not find it fun” situations.
I fully intend to track my spell components if I ever get the chance to be a player again - but that would be for my own enjoyment, not because I expect a DM to impose that rule.
If I recall correctly, CR campaign 2 seemed to follow this rule - Caleb made a big deal about spell components because Liam seems to find it fun, but their other spellcasters did not.
Yes, all the party members seemed to track their spell components in CR Campaign 2 (lots of party wealth lost to pearls and diamonds) but Liam was the most fastidious by far. I’m not exactly against incorporating spell components into my own games (I’m the DM) but I am very concerned about it’s impact on player fun. Also, how much will I have to adjust things in a published campaign to even make multiple spellcasters possible? I don’t want to tell a group what classes they can and can’t play, but going strictly by the Treasure handed out that could very well be something I might have to consider.
I do not think it would be too much of a problem - most spell components are small, relatively insignificant items that wouldn’t show up in a loot table. Really easy to add them to a loot table without breaking it. To be frank, I think it would be so easy to add without causing much game balance issues, that saying “I would rather limit your class options than insignificantly adjust some loot tables” would be problematic DMing.
In 40 years of playing, never. We've talked about it recently but the outlandish examples for daily use spells either require a) that characters spend oodles of downtime looking for weird stuff that would slow everything down, b) some sort of industry to produce/market spell ingredients that we found just a money drain, or c) that scarcity of ingredients qould render spell casters at least temporarily limited.
A good example is the listed spell component for the 1st lvl Warlock spell Hex - a much used spell at least at low levels: the perified eye of a newt. If the warlock should be stocked up for a good week of adventuring, that would require some 20-30 petrified eyes of newts. I know nothing of prehistoric newts, but I do know that petrified fossils are rare. So, for the 1st level warlock to find, among all the fossils he found that month, 20-30 eyes of newts, that would seem rather strange. And what happens if the party is on an aquatic adventure?
I also do not know of a process that can turn the eye of a newt into a petrified eye of newt (other than casting flesh to stone on a newt) with medieval tech, so industrial production seems out as well. That leaves restricting the warlock from using possibly his best offensive 1st level spell to once in a blue moon after a succesful trip rooting out fossils.
So, we're using spell focus and dropping the mundane ingredients because otherwise the whole thing falls apart
Items not consumed no gold cost
My experience is yhese are generally ignored, they can be replaced with a focus and I assume a component pouch contains all the components needed. If they are captured and their component pouch taken away that is a different matter
Items consumed no gold cost
Only example I can think of is blood from a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours. I like this, summoning demons should not be like otherc spells, it requires the PC to be edgy. Nt sure if
Items not consumed with gold cost
This is adhered to on most or all the tables I have played. You can not cast identify from day one and gives an early incentive to get the item or the gold to buy it. Generally these spells are a bit more powerful than others of the same level.
Items consumed with gold cost
I believe there absolutely needs to be a reason not to cast divination every day and for there to be a cost to being raised from the dead or continually sending your familiar on suicidal missions. I have played on tables where you can just dedct the gold amount when you cast it but I prefer to have to consider how much I need to stock up on before I next go somewhere I can buy more..
I think you've gotta be more specific with your question. My table follows the rules on spell components to the letter. But we don't have players going around on weird shopping trips for bat guano. Why? Well, because all the basics are included in a component pouch. They don't need to get bat guano, but they do need to get diamond dust.
We don't usually bother saying "I pull out a handful of bat guano," but we do need a free hand. So the Wizard can't cast Fireball while hanging on a cliff and holding a magic wand.
I answered "yes."
The component isn't consumed in the casting unless it says it is. A single eye would last your whole career.
Evidently not, because you can get the eye, plus a whole host of other useful and peculiar ingredients, at the low cost of 1 component pouch.
All my campaigns follow RAW, so I'm tracking any consumable spell component, and anything with a gold cost. Mostly this means incense for divination spells, though the DM is pretty liberal about allowing my herbalism kit proficiency to allow me to harvest and prepare incense myself for a lower cost. Also the ranger that I was playing since before Tasha's allowed a ranger to use a spellcasting focus -- there, at least, most of the components were the type that would be in a component bag, but I did still have to check.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Yeah, I don’t really see where the “issue” of basic components comes from; if it doesn’t have a gp value and/or is not consumed, then the appropriate focus or a component pouch has you covered, with maybe one or two special exceptions (the vial of blood from a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours for the XGtE demon summoning spells can technically be substituted with a focus, but you can’t make the protective circle in that case). You explicitly do not need to find or track the components unless you don’t have the pouch/focus, which exist in part to allow for spellcasters to be “disarmed” and have to work off a more limited arsenal. And if your DM is making it difficult to lay hands on items that are a part of the starting gear for every caster class, that’s a DM/table issue.
We use spell components with value, the rest is handled by pouch or focus.
What Choir said. There are built-in rules to hand-wave things like finding an eye of newt. This alone makes component access trivial for 95% of spells
But components have a lot of other rules attached to them. What you can carry in your hands, what you can cast when you've been imprisoned without your gear, what you can cast while within the effect of silence, how detectable you are by others when casting, etc. We follow all of that with a couple caviats -
So yes, we use spell components. But no, we don't narrate ourselves rummaging around for a bit of wool or piece of wire every time we cast. Just maybe very occasionally when we're feeling plucky.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The somatic rule is only relevant for gish casters doing TWF or using a shield, so personally I think it’s a good balancing factor; it’s also not hard to handle with free actions
I only require my players to tract for the very powerful spells, ones with a unit cost.. but as a player, I don't track that at all, just the spell slots, unless the DM requires it.
Magic is tedious, and having to use materials makes it feel like the magic isn't really apart of you, when it should be. Especially for Sorcerers and Druids.
Enjoy your slop. I'll be enjoying good products elsewhere.
Gish casters with TWF hardly need a "balancing factor." They're already in a pretty bad spot. And if Paladins can cast with a weapon and shield, why does it need to be "balanced" when a Ranger or EK try it?
It doesn't serve to balance strong builds. It serves to nerf builds that were barely viable in the first place. Not everything is a Hexblade, and most of those use Paladin's loophole anyway.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Paladins still need to put away their weapon to cast a VS or S spell. Really, the only meaningful effect in most instances is that you can't make an AoO with your weapon until the round's come back to you, which is still meaningful enough to be worth tracking. No one is getting special treatment by applying a very basic part of spellcasting RAW.
components are cheap. I created a chart for all the components which cost money and those which were consumed.
Grand total 91,342 gp 3 sp 2 cp Includes daily spell casting for permanent stuff.
Consumed 41,825 gp or 60,155 gp
Non consumed 31,187 gp 3 sp 2 cp
Includes Elemental Evil, Sword Coast, Tasha’s, Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Does anyone here think ‘Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk’ will take into account the monetary cost for having multiple spellcasters in the party? My experience with the published adventures says no, that players will have to do some serious scavenging to the point of taking everything that isn’t nailed down to both afford regular day to day items as well as feed their daily spell requirements.
Also, yes, I know many of us have no plan on picking up an adventure that by all appearances contains 5 levels worth of recycled material. I am considering it - depending on reviews - because I never played or DM’d any of it previously and I just want new material that extends for more than a barely connected series of one shots. A little spark prior to my own homebrew, and the last new adventure was Rime of the Frostmaiden which already feels played out (and never seemed that interesting to me once I actually cracked it open).
We track components.
Its not hard and it adds flavor. Most common components can be found almost any place. I can pick them up while walking for the most part.Or even buy them in a local market.
The expensive consumed ones are that way to keep balance. Would it be good if a "Hero's feast" could be cast on the party every day? Not so much.
Stuff like a feather for Feather Fall is easy. Buy a chicken wing with the feathers and skin still on it. Pin it to your hat. As for wire wrap a bunch into a bracelet. Wool can be the padding for your backpack straps. Things can be added or included into your gear and equipment.
As for that component pouch I think of them more like a magic pouch that brings to the top the component you ask for, You still need to fill it with everything you will eventually need.
How exactly do foci fit in, then, when they can eliminate the majority of components and typically cost less than a component pouch?