I didn’t exactly leave, I just focused on other games. Bought some Pathfinder stuff, some 3rd party 5e stuff, some Free League stuff. Planning to run a Free League game soon.
The truth is, in my own opinion, WotC D&D isn’t all that anyways. There are plenty of systems that provide what I personally want in an RPG better than D&D can. Games with better exploration, more streamlined combat, more interesting monsters.
And that’s okay — D&D can’t possibly follow everyone’s expectations. It’s just one game with a big job — being broad enough and general enough to satisfy everyone that plays it. You like horror? You play D&D. You like brutal, gritty combat? You play D&D. It’s the vanilla of RPGs.
Since I like the community and still play occasionally, I’ve stuck around here. I’m just a little quieter, that’s all.
I kitbashed the Defy Death from Scarlet Heroes into a 5e game about 10 days ago, because we were really light on players that night. It did not go well. But ultimately, I would like to take about 25-40% of 5e, and use that as a basis for a good game. As you said, there are vastly superior systems than 5e out there, but each has its failings. I would take the best of about 4 games, and try to bash them together. The biggest problem, which I see is lessening all the time, is the resistance to playing something other than 5e. I have posted earlier the evidence I am seeing for that resistance dropping.
I had a lengthy response typed up, but the page refreshed itself and I lost it all. The TLDR is that Kevin Crawford is a genius, and WotC is a very, very big fish in a very, very small pond.
I didn’t exactly leave, I just focused on other games. Bought some Pathfinder stuff, some 3rd party 5e stuff, some Free League stuff. Planning to run a Free League game soon.
The truth is, in my own opinion, WotC D&D isn’t all that anyways. There are plenty of systems that provide what I personally want in an RPG better than D&D can. Games with better exploration, more streamlined combat, more interesting monsters.
And that’s okay — D&D can’t possibly follow everyone’s expectations. It’s just one game with a big job — being broad enough and general enough to satisfy everyone that plays it. You like horror? You play D&D. You like brutal, gritty combat? You play D&D. It’s the vanilla of RPGs.
Since I like the community and still play occasionally, I’ve stuck around here. I’m just a little quieter, that’s all.
I kitbashed the Defy Death from Scarlet Heroes into a 5e game about 10 days ago, because we were really light on players that night. It did not go well. But ultimately, I would like to take about 25-40% of 5e, and use that as a basis for a good game. As you said, there are vastly superior systems than 5e out there, but each has its failings. I would take the best of about 4 games, and try to bash them together. The biggest problem, which I see is lessening all the time, is the resistance to playing something other than 5e. I have posted earlier the evidence I am seeing for that resistance dropping.
I had a lengthy response typed up, but the page refreshed itself and I lost it all. The TLDR is that Kevin Crawford is a genius, and WotC is a very, very big fish in a very, very small pond.
Imagine a parallel universe where KC is running the show at wotc. Imagine the quality of D&D then. The randomized tables, the detail to everything. Pulling from even another game, I am realizing that ACKS (and I am certain in ACKS II) is what D&D should have evolved into. I think Macris has taken the best of Gygax and Crawford, and any other of the geniuses out there, and created something very special. I am hoping that ACKS II does well. Macris only got $330,000 in pledges. Every little bit handed out to other RPG creators is less money in hasbro's pocket.
OGL was bad, but when they totally reversed their stance on response to the backlash, I had hope that maybe they learned that they needed to look beyond the executive suite and listen to actual people in the industry when exploring new ways to grow the brand.
Then they laid off most of those people, and now the two blunders illustrate a trend.
We are still playing 5e, but the group is a lot more open to jumping ship than they were before. Primary barrier right now is that some of the group are intimidated by PF2 complexity. I'm also following the MCDM TTRPG, and that could certainly be something we try depending on the learning curve.
I honestly don't know what we'll be playing a year from now. This year's been a real rollercoaster, with some big wins for D&D that have been overshadowed by some really bad missteps that don't bode well for the future.
I wouldn't call PF2 "complex." The word I'd use is "fiddly." Getting 3 actions you can use for whatever on your turn sounds fantastic on paper, until you realize exactly how much you were getting for free in 5e. Even simple things like raising your shield or readying a spell are a headache in PF2, for no reason that I can fathom. Sustain and Focus spells feel unnecessary too.
Imagine a parallel universe where KC is running the show at wotc. Imagine the quality of D&D then. The randomized tables, the detail to everything. Pulling from even another game, I am realizing that ACKS (and I am certain in ACKS II) is what D&D should have evolved into. I think Macris has taken the best of Gygax and Crawford, and any other of the geniuses out there, and created something very special. I am hoping that ACKS II does well. Macris only got $330,000 in pledges. Every little bit handed out to other RPG creators is less money in hasbro's pocket.
No idea what ACKS is but a bunch of additional randomized tables and detail doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
Imagine a parallel universe where KC is running the show at wotc. Imagine the quality of D&D then. The randomized tables, the detail to everything. Pulling from even another game, I am realizing that ACKS (and I am certain in ACKS II) is what D&D should have evolved into. I think Macris has taken the best of Gygax and Crawford, and any other of the geniuses out there, and created something very special. I am hoping that ACKS II does well. Macris only got $330,000 in pledges. Every little bit handed out to other RPG creators is less money in hasbro's pocket.
No idea what ACKS is but a bunch of additional randomized tables and detail doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
Oh, it is. I’ve gotten much more use out of KC’s system-agnostic tables (in Worlds Without Number and Atlas of the Latter Earth) than any GM supplement, even the 5e DMG. I guess it’s all just personal preference, though.
OGL was bad, but when they totally reversed their stance on response to the backlash, I had hope that maybe they learned that they needed to look beyond the executive suite and listen to actual people in the industry when exploring new ways to grow the brand.
Then they laid off most of those people, and now the two blunders illustrate a trend.
We are still playing 5e, but the group is a lot more open to jumping ship than they were before. Primary barrier right now is that some of the group are intimidated by PF2 complexity. I'm also following the MCDM TTRPG, and that could certainly be something we try depending on the learning curve.
I honestly don't know what we'll be playing a year from now. This year's been a real rollercoaster, with some big wins for D&D that have been overshadowed by some really bad missteps that don't bode well for the future.
I wouldn't call PF2 "complex." The word I'd use is "fiddly." Getting 3 actions you can use for whatever on your turn sounds fantastic on paper, until you realize exactly how much you were getting for free in 5e. Even simple things like raising your shield or readying a spell are a headache in PF2, for no reason that I can fathom. Sustain and Focus spells feel unnecessary too.
Imagine a parallel universe where KC is running the show at wotc. Imagine the quality of D&D then. The randomized tables, the detail to everything. Pulling from even another game, I am realizing that ACKS (and I am certain in ACKS II) is what D&D should have evolved into. I think Macris has taken the best of Gygax and Crawford, and any other of the geniuses out there, and created something very special. I am hoping that ACKS II does well. Macris only got $330,000 in pledges. Every little bit handed out to other RPG creators is less money in hasbro's pocket.
No idea what ACKS is but a bunch of additional randomized tables and detail doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
Raising a shield as one of 3 actions is not a headache at all, but exactly how a game like PF or D&D should be played. If actions are going to be codified, (as 5e does) then this is how it should be done. As a player in PF and 5e, I have no problem adjusting my activity to following the rules as written. And if you don't know what ACKS is, I don't know what to tell you. There is nothing I can say about you commenting about something you say have no idea what it is about.
I have to admit - even with this not really being my fight, as stated above - I kinda wanted the fallout to be greater. I'm sort of pro-revolution, I want for the common man to RISE UP against the mind shackles of the soulless corporations, but I don't expect them to, and I'm not joining myself =) This, it saddens me to report, is what's wrong with the world. Although I'm propably getting too philosophical over the OGL.
The fallout was HUGE.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Like I said, Shadowdark grossed over a million on Kickstarter, Colville's MCDM is up to 3.4 million, with 14 days to go, Pazio sold out all their book stock after the OGL.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I was never planning on leaving but I was scared to death D&D would die. But Caerwyn_Glyndwr and a few others calmed me down, and I really understood the reality when someone said they had 18 hobbies for 30 years or so and of all those hobbies only one crashed and burned, but all were allegedly constantly on the verge of imploding. Finally all my doubts were dispelled with the success of Baldur's Gate 3 and the DDB Maps VTT. Funnily enough I was planning on making a 1-year anniversary post about OGL myself!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
Nah, the community balances out what wotc does. I submit my concerns to Hasbro, in hopes they keep wotc in check, and I create stuff and share it with the community, and hope others will too.
I've got all the tools to play dnd, so even if it does crash and burn because wotc doesnt know how to keep itself in check, ive got many "wayback machines" in place to keep going on without them.
Raising a shield as one of 3 actions is not a headache at all, but exactly how a game like PF or D&D should be played. If actions are going to be codified, (as 5e does) then this is how it should be done. As a player in PF and 5e, I have no problem adjusting my activity to following the rules as written. And if you don't know what ACKS is, I don't know what to tell you. There is nothing I can say about you commenting about something you say have no idea what it is about.
Simply declaring "this is how it should be done" without explanation isn't very convincing. And if you're trying to sell the benefits of your favored system, simply directing people to do a bunch of research on their own time isn't the most effective approach either.
I have to admit - even with this not really being my fight, as stated above - I kinda wanted the fallout to be greater. I'm sort of pro-revolution, I want for the common man to RISE UP against the mind shackles of the soulless corporations, but I don't expect them to, and I'm not joining myself =) This, it saddens me to report, is what's wrong with the world. Although I'm propably getting too philosophical over the OGL.
The fallout was HUGE.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Like I said, Shadowdark grossed over a million on Kickstarter, Colville's MCDM is up to 3.4 million, with 14 days to go, Pazio sold out all their book stock after the OGL.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
LOL...you are conflating MTG with D&D. MtG has been carrying all the water, and recently the incredible good luck of what what the 3rd party Larian put out, which was started 6 YEARS ago, long before ANYONE making decisions at wotc/hasbro was there. D&D is barely treading water. And if you think that the 5 or 10 million bucks, which is the barest of minimums that 3rd parties and competitors are earning, is nothing to the D&D people (not talking MtG), you really have not been reading financial reports.
I have to admit - even with this not really being my fight, as stated above - I kinda wanted the fallout to be greater. I'm sort of pro-revolution, I want for the common man to RISE UP against the mind shackles of the soulless corporations, but I don't expect them to, and I'm not joining myself =) This, it saddens me to report, is what's wrong with the world. Although I'm propably getting too philosophical over the OGL.
The fallout was HUGE.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Like I said, Shadowdark grossed over a million on Kickstarter, Colville's MCDM is up to 3.4 million, with 14 days to go, Pazio sold out all their book stock after the OGL.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
LOL...you are conflating MTG with D&D. MtG has been carrying all the water, and recently the incredible good luck of what what the 3rd party Larian put out, which was started 6 YEARS ago, long before ANYONE making decisions at wotc/hasbro was there. D&D is barely treading water. And if you think that the 5 or 10 million bucks, which is the barest of minimums that 3rd parties and competitors are earning, is nothing to the D&D people (not talking MtG), you really have not been reading financial reports.
False and directly contradicted by the financial reports you are telling others to read. The financial reports are very, very, very clear that D&D is consistently rising in membership, and was trending up with strong numbers before BG3. BG3 poured gas on an already strong fire.
I have to admit - even with this not really being my fight, as stated above - I kinda wanted the fallout to be greater. I'm sort of pro-revolution, I want for the common man to RISE UP against the mind shackles of the soulless corporations, but I don't expect them to, and I'm not joining myself =) This, it saddens me to report, is what's wrong with the world. Although I'm propably getting too philosophical over the OGL.
The fallout was HUGE.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Like I said, Shadowdark grossed over a million on Kickstarter, Colville's MCDM is up to 3.4 million, with 14 days to go, Pazio sold out all their book stock after the OGL.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
LOL...you are conflating MTG with D&D. MtG has been carrying all the water, and recently the incredible good luck of what what the 3rd party Larian put out, which was started 6 YEARS ago, long before ANYONE making decisions at wotc/hasbro was there. D&D is barely treading water. And if you think that the 5 or 10 million bucks, which is the barest of minimums that 3rd parties and competitors are earning, is nothing to the D&D people (not talking MtG), you really have not been reading financial reports.
False and directly contradicted by the financial reports you are telling others to read. The financial reports are very, very, very clear that D&D is consistently rising in membership, and was trending up with strong numbers before BG3. BG3 poured gas on an already strong fire.
That is NOT what the last financials showed at all. I posted the comments and numbers days ago, straight from hasbro's website.
I have to admit - even with this not really being my fight, as stated above - I kinda wanted the fallout to be greater. I'm sort of pro-revolution, I want for the common man to RISE UP against the mind shackles of the soulless corporations, but I don't expect them to, and I'm not joining myself =) This, it saddens me to report, is what's wrong with the world. Although I'm propably getting too philosophical over the OGL.
The fallout was HUGE.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Like I said, Shadowdark grossed over a million on Kickstarter, Colville's MCDM is up to 3.4 million, with 14 days to go, Pazio sold out all their book stock after the OGL.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
LOL...you are conflating MTG with D&D. MtG has been carrying all the water, and recently the incredible good luck of what what the 3rd party Larian put out, which was started 6 YEARS ago, long before ANYONE making decisions at wotc/hasbro was there. D&D is barely treading water. And if you think that the 5 or 10 million bucks, which is the barest of minimums that 3rd parties and competitors are earning, is nothing to the D&D people (not talking MtG), you really have not been reading financial reports.
False and directly contradicted by the financial reports you are telling others to read. The financial reports are very, very, very clear that D&D is consistently rising in membership, and was trending up with strong numbers before BG3. BG3 poured gas on an already strong fire.
That is NOT what the last financials showed at all. I posted the comments and numbers days ago, straight from hasbro's website.
Actually, what they showed was focus on other areas, but making it very clear that D&D should not be lumped in with any of the aspect of the business that were contracting. Though they did not mention specific growth in D&D this quarter, that was because the limited space they dedicated to D&D was spent mentioning BG3.
That is pretty standard in financial reports of parent companies—the individual breakdown of the subsidiary’s sales is not that important, only the bottom line. The new developments you highlight, and the billion dollar brand you talk about, but maintaining growth from a smaller brand, you don’t really spend the very limited space on—you just make it clear it is not shrinking. That is exactly what they did here. This is particularly true in quarterly reports, which are more snapshots supposed to be read in the context of the other quarter’s reporting.
The reality? Every single report in recent history has consistently demonstrated that D&D is growing. In fact, it is growing at about the same percentage of Magic—14% of a brand worth hundreds of millions is just less notable than 13% growth in a brand worth over a billion.
My group has currently switched from D&D to Cyberpunk.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
Is alright. The game system seems to work well enough for the most part. There are some things I would change, but nothing major. I’m not a huge fan of the setting however, and much prefer Shadowrun myself personally. I love the blend of fantasy and sci-fi that setting presents, and I prefer the lore from Shadowrun what with the Amerindian influences and all. But I hear that Shadowrun’s mechanics are 💩 this edition, and everyone else is into Cyberpunk (because of the video game), so that’s what we’re playing primarily. 🤷♂️
Hasbro backed down from the OGL. Hasbro gave a ton of material onto Creative Commons. That fight is over, and many of us came back. We were disappointed when Hasbro sent the Pinkertons to harass a content creator for MTG. and we feel like trust was lost permanently. But as the DM, I am required by my group to continue a sub on DnDB, as P2E is not the right system for them. (
Honestly frustrated that they couldn't live with that system, it's good, but sadly they want OP 5th edition characters, a system that I do not want to use any more as a DM
.)
So yes still here, looking at Hasbro being stupid and greedy and possibly wrecking WOTC to a point the company might fold sooner than later. At least plenty of 5th ed is on CC now, so the system can survive forever now, regardless if WotC fails because of Hasbro.
Wait: nothing that was typed by PsyrenXY was a lie.
Not even an exaggeration.
D&D is growing, is strong, and is a key driver of Hasbro -- none of this is false, and all of it can be read or discerned from reports and publicly available data.
It is the dominant TTRPG and is the default against all others are measured and the most successful of all TTRPGs. Where other TTRPGs are struggling to raise 5 million in cash, D&D itself (without Mtg) made 750 million in 2021 alone, and is poised to break 1 billion either this fiscal year or next.
I remain in the camp of investors who want to see D&D spun off to be its own company (and Magic spun off as its own company as well, separate from D&D). I am still upset i gave my proxy over for that and they didn't succeed.
I get that some folks just want everyone else to be mad at Hasbro and WotC for their own reasons, but really, doing so is a waste of time, energy, and life -- and calling the truth about them a lie is neither wise nor honest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
The best information we have about the meaningfulness of the OGL to the greater community comes from Wizards’ polling—their OGL poll brought in a fifth of the voters of their 2024 playtest content, indicating significant, but not overwhelming interest. The clear confusion is that the overwhelming majority of players care far more about the game’s development and direction—and thus are showing their long-term commitment to the game—then over a licensing dispute.
Anecdotally, outside of these forums, no one I knew super cared. There was one person who said the OGL was causing them to leave D&D for Pathfinder—but they were a militant Pathfinder advocate before the OGL thing, so it did not actually change anything about their opinion (they’re also back to D&D, since they realised it is far easier to get and retain players for D&D games than Pathfinder ones). The rest of my social circle expressed complete indifference, mild curiosity followed by complete indifference once they got more information, or frustration at the angry fans for their legal ignorance and wanton spread of misinformation. Overall, no one I know other than here, either in my playgroups or the other online communities I am in, actually changed anything about how they played based on this issue.
You realize that when that survey dropped, most of the YouTube personalities leading the war on the OGL told their viewer not to vote on it. That sharp drop in replies shows how many people on here were following the YouTube content creators advice on the situation.
At the local gaming cafe, I really don't know how many were even aware of the OGL, but I am confident to say that 5e has gone from 80% of all games played to more like 60%, even 50%. I know of a Warhammer Fantasy table, two PF2e, one PF1e table, plus my AD&D 1e table, all that run regularly, and there are likely more I don't know of. Pre-Covid there were no PF or AD&D games there. I would love to see even more games tried. My 1e table is trying out an OSE funnel on Sat, and there is someone in the local Discord trying to get a 3rd PF2e table up and running.
Oh, and of the 5e tables at the cafe, I know at least 2 that are NOT going anywhere near 6e when it comes out. Any of that material is being banned. But then, 6e is ultimately not going to be conducive to in-person sessions, as opposed to virtual sessions, so I don't think wotc really cares that much about that.
Now I wish we had a TTRPG cafe with warhammer RPG, I would love to get a Savage Worlds group together for Deadlands, or maybe Traveller <- my favorite setting
Oh, and of the 5e tables at the cafe, I know at least 2 that are NOT going anywhere near 6e when it comes out. Any of that material is being banned. But then, 6e is ultimately not going to be conducive to in-person sessions, as opposed to virtual sessions, so I don't think wotc really cares that much about that.
First off, it is not 6e. Second, those of us who have been playing the 2024 updates know that it is just as conductive to in-person play as the 2014 rules are. You know both these things; you have been told both these things multiple times. Really not sure why you insist on spreading misinformation—knowingly repeating the same falsehoods strongly indicates you have less than savoury motivations for being here.
D&D players, as a whole, are scared of change. I expect once 2024 releases, and it becomes clear just how little change there is, many of the holdouts who have legitimate concerns (so, not the militant anti-Wizards folks, the anti-5e folks, and the bigots who don’t like that Wizards is trying to be more inclusive) will begin to adapt.
Well no matter what Hasbro wants to call it, the community will call it what they want to. Most of use are half way between 6.0 and 5.5, no one will call it D&D2024 as that is too wordy and not descriptive in a way that makes sense.
I had a lengthy response typed up, but the page refreshed itself and I lost it all. The TLDR is that Kevin Crawford is a genius, and WotC is a very, very big fish in a very, very small pond.
Terra Lubridia archive:
The Bloody Barnacle | The Gut | The Athene Crusader | The Jewel of Atlantis
Imagine a parallel universe where KC is running the show at wotc. Imagine the quality of D&D then. The randomized tables, the detail to everything. Pulling from even another game, I am realizing that ACKS (and I am certain in ACKS II) is what D&D should have evolved into. I think Macris has taken the best of Gygax and Crawford, and any other of the geniuses out there, and created something very special. I am hoping that ACKS II does well. Macris only got $330,000 in pledges. Every little bit handed out to other RPG creators is less money in hasbro's pocket.
I wouldn't call PF2 "complex." The word I'd use is "fiddly." Getting 3 actions you can use for whatever on your turn sounds fantastic on paper, until you realize exactly how much you were getting for free in 5e. Even simple things like raising your shield or readying a spell are a headache in PF2, for no reason that I can fathom. Sustain and Focus spells feel unnecessary too.
No idea what ACKS is but a bunch of additional randomized tables and detail doesn't sound like an improvement to me.
Oh, it is. I’ve gotten much more use out of KC’s system-agnostic tables (in Worlds Without Number and Atlas of the Latter Earth) than any GM supplement, even the 5e DMG. I guess it’s all just personal preference, though.
Terra Lubridia archive:
The Bloody Barnacle | The Gut | The Athene Crusader | The Jewel of Atlantis
Raising a shield as one of 3 actions is not a headache at all, but exactly how a game like PF or D&D should be played. If actions are going to be codified, (as 5e does) then this is how it should be done. As a player in PF and 5e, I have no problem adjusting my activity to following the rules as written. And if you don't know what ACKS is, I don't know what to tell you. There is nothing I can say about you commenting about something you say have no idea what it is about.
I'm sorry to say, I completely disagree.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence points to the fallout being very, very minor indeed - in any measurable way - and the OGL that was eventually passed contains all the same things that the original did, but with a lot of changes and assurances.
That might call for a short explanation. To my mind, there was the intention of the OGL, and the perceived intention of the OGL. The real intention was to protect copyrights, and to ensure that large 3rd party creators (software companies and movie producers, I primarily imagine) couldn't make millions of dollars on D&D or D&D-like products without sharing. The perceived intention was that Hasbro had decided to grab the small change out of the pockets of a large number of very minor players.
So. Point being, the latter was never the intention - even if the admittedly hamhanded hackjob of a licence allowed for it. So, new license, tailored by brighter minds to achieve the original goal without all the pointless collateral damage.
So in essence, the OGL hasn't changed in any way that makes a real difference. Except it has stilled the storm, which of course makes the difference of stilling the storm.
How is Cyberpunk these days? I played it - once - in the late 90's, and ... well, it wasn't great, so much so that I played Shadowrun instead, and Shadowrun ... well it simply doesn't work as a system.
These sound like amounts that Hasbro wouldn't bend over to pick up if they found them lying in the street. What sources I've been able to locate show precisely no dip in earnings - at all, at any point since 2015. That's not to say I know everything - I definitely don't - but as far as I can tell from publicly available sources, there hasn't been any measurable impact at all.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I was never planning on leaving but I was scared to death D&D would die. But Caerwyn_Glyndwr and a few others calmed me down, and I really understood the reality when someone said they had 18 hobbies for 30 years or so and of all those hobbies only one crashed and burned, but all were allegedly constantly on the verge of imploding. Finally all my doubts were dispelled with the success of Baldur's Gate 3 and the DDB Maps VTT. Funnily enough I was planning on making a 1-year anniversary post about OGL myself!
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
Nah, the community balances out what wotc does. I submit my concerns to Hasbro, in hopes they keep wotc in check, and I create stuff and share it with the community, and hope others will too.
I've got all the tools to play dnd, so even if it does crash and burn because wotc doesnt know how to keep itself in check, ive got many "wayback machines" in place to keep going on without them.
Simply declaring "this is how it should be done" without explanation isn't very convincing. And if you're trying to sell the benefits of your favored system, simply directing people to do a bunch of research on their own time isn't the most effective approach either.
LOL...you are conflating MTG with D&D. MtG has been carrying all the water, and recently the incredible good luck of what what the 3rd party Larian put out, which was started 6 YEARS ago, long before ANYONE making decisions at wotc/hasbro was there. D&D is barely treading water. And if you think that the 5 or 10 million bucks, which is the barest of minimums that 3rd parties and competitors are earning, is nothing to the D&D people (not talking MtG), you really have not been reading financial reports.
False and directly contradicted by the financial reports you are telling others to read. The financial reports are very, very, very clear that D&D is consistently rising in membership, and was trending up with strong numbers before BG3. BG3 poured gas on an already strong fire.
That is NOT what the last financials showed at all. I posted the comments and numbers days ago, straight from hasbro's website.
Goodness, let's try to keep the quoting to a minimum.
Actually, what they showed was focus on other areas, but making it very clear that D&D should not be lumped in with any of the aspect of the business that were contracting. Though they did not mention specific growth in D&D this quarter, that was because the limited space they dedicated to D&D was spent mentioning BG3.
That is pretty standard in financial reports of parent companies—the individual breakdown of the subsidiary’s sales is not that important, only the bottom line. The new developments you highlight, and the billion dollar brand you talk about, but maintaining growth from a smaller brand, you don’t really spend the very limited space on—you just make it clear it is not shrinking. That is exactly what they did here. This is particularly true in quarterly reports, which are more snapshots supposed to be read in the context of the other quarter’s reporting.
The reality? Every single report in recent history has consistently demonstrated that D&D is growing. In fact, it is growing at about the same percentage of Magic—14% of a brand worth hundreds of millions is just less notable than 13% growth in a brand worth over a billion.
Is alright. The game system seems to work well enough for the most part. There are some things I would change, but nothing major. I’m not a huge fan of the setting however, and much prefer Shadowrun myself personally. I love the blend of fantasy and sci-fi that setting presents, and I prefer the lore from Shadowrun what with the Amerindian influences and all. But I hear that Shadowrun’s mechanics are 💩 this edition, and everyone else is into Cyberpunk (because of the video game), so that’s what we’re playing primarily. 🤷♂️
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Hasbro backed down from the OGL. Hasbro gave a ton of material onto Creative Commons. That fight is over, and many of us came back. We were disappointed when Hasbro sent the Pinkertons to harass a content creator for MTG. and we feel like trust was lost permanently. But as the DM, I am required by my group to continue a sub on DnDB, as P2E is not the right system for them. (
Honestly frustrated that they couldn't live with that system, it's good, but sadly they want OP 5th edition characters, a system that I do not want to use any more as a DM
.)
So yes still here, looking at Hasbro being stupid and greedy and possibly wrecking WOTC to a point the company might fold sooner than later. At least plenty of 5th ed is on CC now, so the system can survive forever now, regardless if WotC fails because of Hasbro.
Wait: nothing that was typed by PsyrenXY was a lie.
Not even an exaggeration.
D&D is growing, is strong, and is a key driver of Hasbro -- none of this is false, and all of it can be read or discerned from reports and publicly available data.
It is the dominant TTRPG and is the default against all others are measured and the most successful of all TTRPGs. Where other TTRPGs are struggling to raise 5 million in cash, D&D itself (without Mtg) made 750 million in 2021 alone, and is poised to break 1 billion either this fiscal year or next.
I remain in the camp of investors who want to see D&D spun off to be its own company (and Magic spun off as its own company as well, separate from D&D). I am still upset i gave my proxy over for that and they didn't succeed.
I get that some folks just want everyone else to be mad at Hasbro and WotC for their own reasons, but really, doing so is a waste of time, energy, and life -- and calling the truth about them a lie is neither wise nor honest.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
You realize that when that survey dropped, most of the YouTube personalities leading the war on the OGL told their viewer not to vote on it. That sharp drop in replies shows how many people on here were following the YouTube content creators advice on the situation.
Now I wish we had a TTRPG cafe with warhammer RPG, I would love to get a Savage Worlds group together for Deadlands, or maybe Traveller <- my favorite setting
Well no matter what Hasbro wants to call it, the community will call it what they want to. Most of use are half way between 6.0 and 5.5, no one will call it D&D2024 as that is too wordy and not descriptive in a way that makes sense.