Work posted a sign up for D&D. It was something I always wanted to do but didn't have any friends that played. We had a huge turnout and started an 8 player, plus a DM campaign. 3 of our players were temps and we knew they'd be leaving us eventually to a different state. We all played up to lvl 5 for the last 6 months. I instantly took to D&D bought all the source books and started making characters on my own reading about spells and putting together build ideas and themes. I want to eventually start to DM.
I and 2 others had a pretty good grasp on how to run our characters while the rest I'm assuming had no out of game thought about D&D till our weekly meetup. Ultimately everyone had fun but I couldn't help but feel kind of disappointed that in 6 months ...5 of them didn't bother to learn their characters. We had a Ranger that never bothered to pick their 2nd class spells, a Thief that never learned their sneak attack or cunning action. A monk that would leroy jenkins to the frontline do 9 points of dmg and die. A Battlemaster too afraid to spend their superiority dice because they only had 4.
Our Barbarian and our Champion basically carried us. I was running Cavalier but it was the wrong subclass for the horde like fights to make a difference. Probably my biggest contributions were high AC to absorb attacks and Shieldmaster to shove prone on my bonus action to try to give advantage to next on initiative. I started as Protection fighting style by no one ever stayed near me for a reaction, so i switched to defensive.
We basically TPK'd in the last session accept for our thief who ran away without even making 1 attack and then watched the rest of us battle and go down for the rest of the session. Our Barbarian also survived having to skip the last session. We all had fun going down knowing 3 players wouldn't be returning.
DM is having the other 3 of us that died, reroll starting lvl 5. I'm excited to try a Bard but a bit nervous about survivability, going from a tank to a caster. One of the things im worried about is the thief still not helping out or playing to their potential. And the one note flurry of blow monk stepping into war cleric and not using their spells to support the rest of us.
I've tried to help both players figure out their characters and instill battlefield confidence and know-abouts of all the tools they have at their disposal. So far it hasn't stuck in 6 months. I know the main point is everyone having fun. I don't want to come off as the serious guy who takes that away. But Im a fan of actual play podcasts and watching their team dynamics. I yearn for the same but I don't think its going to happen with half the players just showing up to wing it like its still session 3. Each of them have the player handbook, but still open it up like its the first time ever?
So far I haven't been called out for any backseat driving but Im aware I can slide into that role when I see players clueless about their action economy on their turn. How do I get the team to be on their toes without coming across snobbish? Its my first and only D&D table , I'm still having fun, more then not.
Ranged sneak attacks are what the rogue was made for, try to teach them how to play that way. But in the end if they still do not take to it then just let them die when the time comes.
Some people do not like it but ranged attacks are very powerful and should be used as much as possible. If your enemy can not reach you, you will not get hurt. Kill them before they get to you. All my characters have a way to fight ranged and a way to fight close.
Always plan your groups general attack or defense system without using magic and also with. Who steps to the front who to the back. Who goes left or right and so on. How they will all see in a dark place. How will they climb a wall. Camp in the wild.
If it helps, what I have done in the past is offer to make players who have a hard time grasping their characters a simple cheat sheet that highlights the abilities they have so that they can refer to it in-game. I've also been known to make simplified spell cards for unconfident casters so that they have something tangible to hold and use instead of trying to conceptualize a list of spells.
Mostly just try some new ways of meeting people where they are and helping with your enthusiasm to nudge them toward where you'd like them to be without making them feel pressured.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Maybe they’re just not that interested in tactical play and are just having fun hanging out. It just might not be the group for you. If they haven’t shown interest in “playing to their full potential” after all this time, maybe they are just fine as is. Not every group will mesh.
We shall see how next meet up goes. We had a night when there was just 4 of us and we plowed through 1 encounter but a potion of fire breathing helped alot! Im hoping with 3 less people the weaker links will bask more in the spotlight. Good suggestion on the ranged weapon, maybe its what they need to feel safe? In the past I have given the Thief a written sheet about how to use Action Economy and the Drow abilities they can cast. I've grabbed Spellbook cards from all my decks and presented sheets to everyone to have right in front of them so we could get the biggest hurrah possible before 3 of them left. Only the Druid who played chaotic nuking NPC's (laughing about it now) seemed to appreciate it. I have spell effect templates for the map arriving today and more props coming. Maybe that will help a little with tactics?
Oh well, I'll try to nudge a bit more without hopefully becoming annoying. And yes, realizing this is just the way it is. I started as one of those players just showing up to have fun. But my hobbies often become addictions...or rather preferred escapes I have absorbed so much youtube content surrounding D&D. For me seems to be my only highlight of the week and I realize for the others it might just be one of many. Maybe I'm getting closer with this new passion to pour it into DMing? Though I feel if i take that route I myself have a lot of confidence/experience to build before then.
It's unclear if you guys had a session zero before you started, especially if a lot of you were new, but with folks leaving and most of the rest rolling new characters, it's a good time to have another session zero, going over expectations of play/play style, questions or complaints (eg check in with the others to see how they feel about your potential backseat driving), maybe some strategizing for building a cohesive team, etc. See if the others in your group (especially the DM) would be down with that.
Maybe they feel they don't need to learn because you'll give them help on their turn? I have no way of knowing.
My advice, don't offer help until they ask for ti. And the great thing about a Bard is you'll have access to Dimension Door so if a TPK is coming you'll eventually have an escape! Just don't try to "tank" unless you've chosen a subclass that can "tank". But that's really more of a MMO thing than a D&D thing. Any class can take a hit, you just want to make sure you don't rush out there and get surrounded unless you have the AC and/or HP pool to take it.
It's unclear if you guys had a session zero before you started, especially if a lot of you were new, but with folks leaving and most of the rest rolling new characters, it's a good time to have another session zero, going over expectations of play/play style, questions or complaints (eg check in with the others to see how they feel about your potential backseat driving), maybe some strategizing for building a cohesive team, etc. See if the others in your group (especially the DM) would be down with that.
We did indeed have a session zero at very beginning, We all picked Race/Class and rolled 4d6 drop the lowest for stats. So some rolled well, some poor, some mediocre. Six of us had no idea what was considered good and we were all martial characters. The Druid actually didn't become a druid till they died second session to zombified wolves.
This past week we had another session 0 and I thought we'd all get on the same page to talk team synergy, but it was just a repeat of the first session 0. People doing whatever as far as team make up. Except this time we used standard array to determine stats. DM allowed us to start at lvl 5 and access to XGOE/TCOE. As well as access to 2 homebrew races from the campaign which they never bothered to share a stat block to compare.
Our Champion rerolled Artificer/Artillerist the night before the meet up taking Tasha's custom lineage feat and a +2 4th lvl ASI to start with a 20 intelligence. They DM at another table so they know how to build a character. But decided to play their first "Chaotic Evil" character. So we'll see where that goes?...I don't expect them to grab any support abilities and assume they'll just be playing as a dps blaster, which i guess...can be support.
Our first group was melee heavy with 3 fighters a Barb, a monk and a rogue. I was either stepping into Bard, Ranger or Sorc. But worried about losing all the Martials except for the Bear Totem Barb and the cowardly Thief. So I txt'd the former Monk to feel out what they were thinking before deciding Lore Bard. They told me most likely Paladin and was happy about that. But then DM at session 0 talked them out of it because they said, "You cant be a Paladin with a Chaotic Evil character on your team". So they were swayed to play War Cleric? With my brief dip in cleric from before, I imagine they get a good kit, but concerned Cleric might be too much spells for them to manage knowing they never even learned their way of the fist Monk. I've never seen any support action from this player before so I'm expecting them to just do damage and forget any support utilities.
So new composition looks like: Totem Barbarian, Thief, War Cleric, Lore Bard and Artillerist.
I grp txt everyone on Friday trying to drop some new Bardic Inspiration mentioning ill be taking the weekend to learn how to Bard via Youtube. Urging all unsure of their character capabilities to do the same. Nobody else seems to really care about team dynamics, tactics or even discussing a good plan. But again...im the way too serious guy?
I Imagine Ill be spending next session in the dirt again but hanging on to be surprised.
Short answer is, yes, you are the "way too serious guy." But only because you are in a situation with folks who are less invested in the game than you are. It happens. The good news is, now that you know how to play and are excited to do so, you can go out and source local like-minded players for your own games.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
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Work posted a sign up for D&D. It was something I always wanted to do but didn't have any friends that played. We had a huge turnout and started an 8 player, plus a DM campaign. 3 of our players were temps and we knew they'd be leaving us eventually to a different state. We all played up to lvl 5 for the last 6 months. I instantly took to D&D bought all the source books and started making characters on my own reading about spells and putting together build ideas and themes. I want to eventually start to DM.
I and 2 others had a pretty good grasp on how to run our characters while the rest I'm assuming had no out of game thought about D&D till our weekly meetup. Ultimately everyone had fun but I couldn't help but feel kind of disappointed that in 6 months ...5 of them didn't bother to learn their characters. We had a Ranger that never bothered to pick their 2nd class spells, a Thief that never learned their sneak attack or cunning action. A monk that would leroy jenkins to the frontline do 9 points of dmg and die. A Battlemaster too afraid to spend their superiority dice because they only had 4.
Our Barbarian and our Champion basically carried us. I was running Cavalier but it was the wrong subclass for the horde like fights to make a difference. Probably my biggest contributions were high AC to absorb attacks and Shieldmaster to shove prone on my bonus action to try to give advantage to next on initiative. I started as Protection fighting style by no one ever stayed near me for a reaction, so i switched to defensive.
We basically TPK'd in the last session accept for our thief who ran away without even making 1 attack and then watched the rest of us battle and go down for the rest of the session. Our Barbarian also survived having to skip the last session. We all had fun going down knowing 3 players wouldn't be returning.
DM is having the other 3 of us that died, reroll starting lvl 5. I'm excited to try a Bard but a bit nervous about survivability, going from a tank to a caster. One of the things im worried about is the thief still not helping out or playing to their potential. And the one note flurry of blow monk stepping into war cleric and not using their spells to support the rest of us.
I've tried to help both players figure out their characters and instill battlefield confidence and know-abouts of all the tools they have at their disposal. So far it hasn't stuck in 6 months. I know the main point is everyone having fun. I don't want to come off as the serious guy who takes that away. But Im a fan of actual play podcasts and watching their team dynamics. I yearn for the same but I don't think its going to happen with half the players just showing up to wing it like its still session 3. Each of them have the player handbook, but still open it up like its the first time ever?
So far I haven't been called out for any backseat driving but Im aware I can slide into that role when I see players clueless about their action economy on their turn. How do I get the team to be on their toes without coming across snobbish? Its my first and only D&D table , I'm still having fun, more then not.
We have ALL had that exact same problem.
Ranged sneak attacks are what the rogue was made for, try to teach them how to play that way. But in the end if they still do not take to it then just let them die when the time comes.
Some people do not like it but ranged attacks are very powerful and should be used as much as possible. If your enemy can not reach you, you will not get hurt. Kill them before they get to you.
All my characters have a way to fight ranged and a way to fight close.
Always plan your groups general attack or defense system without using magic and also with. Who steps to the front who to the back. Who goes left or right and so on.
How they will all see in a dark place. How will they climb a wall. Camp in the wild.
If it helps, what I have done in the past is offer to make players who have a hard time grasping their characters a simple cheat sheet that highlights the abilities they have so that they can refer to it in-game. I've also been known to make simplified spell cards for unconfident casters so that they have something tangible to hold and use instead of trying to conceptualize a list of spells.
Mostly just try some new ways of meeting people where they are and helping with your enthusiasm to nudge them toward where you'd like them to be without making them feel pressured.
Maybe they’re just not that interested in tactical play and are just having fun hanging out. It just might not be the group for you. If they haven’t shown interest in “playing to their full potential” after all this time, maybe they are just fine as is. Not every group will mesh.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
We shall see how next meet up goes. We had a night when there was just 4 of us and we plowed through 1 encounter but a potion of fire breathing helped alot! Im hoping with 3 less people the weaker links will bask more in the spotlight. Good suggestion on the ranged weapon, maybe its what they need to feel safe? In the past I have given the Thief a written sheet about how to use Action Economy and the Drow abilities they can cast. I've grabbed Spellbook cards from all my decks and presented sheets to everyone to have right in front of them so we could get the biggest hurrah possible before 3 of them left. Only the Druid who played chaotic nuking NPC's (laughing about it now) seemed to appreciate it. I have spell effect templates for the map arriving today and more props coming. Maybe that will help a little with tactics?
Oh well, I'll try to nudge a bit more without hopefully becoming annoying. And yes, realizing this is just the way it is. I started as one of those players just showing up to have fun. But my hobbies often become addictions...or rather preferred escapes I have absorbed so much youtube content surrounding D&D. For me seems to be my only highlight of the week and I realize for the others it might just be one of many. Maybe I'm getting closer with this new passion to pour it into DMing? Though I feel if i take that route I myself have a lot of confidence/experience to build before then.
It's unclear if you guys had a session zero before you started, especially if a lot of you were new, but with folks leaving and most of the rest rolling new characters, it's a good time to have another session zero, going over expectations of play/play style, questions or complaints (eg check in with the others to see how they feel about your potential backseat driving), maybe some strategizing for building a cohesive team, etc. See if the others in your group (especially the DM) would be down with that.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Maybe they feel they don't need to learn because you'll give them help on their turn? I have no way of knowing.
My advice, don't offer help until they ask for ti. And the great thing about a Bard is you'll have access to Dimension Door so if a TPK is coming you'll eventually have an escape! Just don't try to "tank" unless you've chosen a subclass that can "tank". But that's really more of a MMO thing than a D&D thing. Any class can take a hit, you just want to make sure you don't rush out there and get surrounded unless you have the AC and/or HP pool to take it.
+1 to the cheat sheet, that can help a lot.
I have also made a decision tree for someone. This can be a good way to illustrate which abilities can be good for certain situations.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
We did indeed have a session zero at very beginning, We all picked Race/Class and rolled 4d6 drop the lowest for stats. So some rolled well, some poor, some mediocre. Six of us had no idea what was considered good and we were all martial characters. The Druid actually didn't become a druid till they died second session to zombified wolves.
This past week we had another session 0 and I thought we'd all get on the same page to talk team synergy, but it was just a repeat of the first session 0. People doing whatever as far as team make up. Except this time we used standard array to determine stats. DM allowed us to start at lvl 5 and access to XGOE/TCOE. As well as access to 2 homebrew races from the campaign which they never bothered to share a stat block to compare.
Our Champion rerolled Artificer/Artillerist the night before the meet up taking Tasha's custom lineage feat and a +2 4th lvl ASI to start with a 20 intelligence. They DM at another table so they know how to build a character. But decided to play their first "Chaotic Evil" character. So we'll see where that goes?...I don't expect them to grab any support abilities and assume they'll just be playing as a dps blaster, which i guess...can be support.
Our first group was melee heavy with 3 fighters a Barb, a monk and a rogue. I was either stepping into Bard, Ranger or Sorc. But worried about losing all the Martials except for the Bear Totem Barb and the cowardly Thief. So I txt'd the former Monk to feel out what they were thinking before deciding Lore Bard. They told me most likely Paladin and was happy about that. But then DM at session 0 talked them out of it because they said, "You cant be a Paladin with a Chaotic Evil character on your team". So they were swayed to play War Cleric? With my brief dip in cleric from before, I imagine they get a good kit, but concerned Cleric might be too much spells for them to manage knowing they never even learned their way of the fist Monk. I've never seen any support action from this player before so I'm expecting them to just do damage and forget any support utilities.
So new composition looks like: Totem Barbarian, Thief, War Cleric, Lore Bard and Artillerist.
I grp txt everyone on Friday trying to drop some new Bardic Inspiration mentioning ill be taking the weekend to learn how to Bard via Youtube. Urging all unsure of their character capabilities to do the same. Nobody else seems to really care about team dynamics, tactics or even discussing a good plan. But again...im the way too serious guy?
I Imagine Ill be spending next session in the dirt again but hanging on to be surprised.
Short answer is, yes, you are the "way too serious guy." But only because you are in a situation with folks who are less invested in the game than you are. It happens. The good news is, now that you know how to play and are excited to do so, you can go out and source local like-minded players for your own games.