I'd like to note that our GM is great in most aspects. In some, however, he's less great.
One of his less-great areas is NPC dialogue. Often times in modules we're going after some kind of mystery. As a player I enjoy writing down and asking questions and taking notes about the story so I can ask better questions later. But he CONSISTENTLY gives me nothing. It's incredibly frustrating: I get all invested and excited only to hit a wall, each and every time. On top of that I have social anxiety and it makes me feel stupid and stresses me out.
He's blamed me and the module each time. It's either that I'm not asking the right characters the right questions or that the NPCs in the module are stupid an uninformed. Even asking people who live in a town about events that happen in the town the answer is usually "I don't know", followed by an excuse.
Recently I told him that I'm not having fun when it comes to investigating. And that, in order to have more fun and be less stressed, I'm going to stop trying to ask questions.
He spent the next half hour, or so, telling me not to stop asking questions. And that he doesn't want me to stop being invested. But he failed to produce a reason to back it up. And he doesn't seem to understand what I told him: that I'm not having fun and getting legitimately upset.
I want to finish the campaign and not create unnecessary drama during game sessions. But I don't know how to make him understand that I need to change the way I'm playing in order to make the game more fun for myself.
I understand your frustration. Not sure how old or experienced your DM is, but it can be challenging to know how much to ad lib, or what information to come up with, in a published campaign, as DM. Some are more comfortable at it than others and you’re probably running past against his comfort level! All I’d suggest is just try doing what you’ve said and see how it goes. Presumably you’re in a party and some of the others can do the heavy lifting as well.
You may want to encourage your GM to get advice and help from other GM's on relevant details for published campaigns, and what would make sense in a homebrew campaign, so that they are playing the NPC's in a more interactive friendly manner.
Just be sure to let the GM know that you enjoy playing with them on most aspects, with only that one needing work, so they know it is genuine critique, and not bashing.
I, as a habitual devil's advocate, will address this issue from another perspective.
What kind of game was decided upon during Session Zero? Was Exploration in the form of conducting investigations given a say at all? For instance, my current game has no investigatory elements. Yes, the PCs are exploring, but they are not sleuthing around the city for clues and interrogating the citizenry. If I want them to know something, the right information reaches their ears/eyes. Given that no module is going to provide enough information, a great deal of ad libbing has to occur if a DM is to craft a reasonable response
If he is running the hardcover adventures (Out of the Abyss, Dragon Heist, Princes of the Apocalypse, etc) for most of the NPCs there isn't much information about what they know / can tell the party. Some people are less comfortable improvising or are worried about accidentally spoiling stuff.
Do you have a specific example of a question and the NPC / the module you were in?
This has been an ongoing issue across a few different modules. It feels like the GM is determined to keep us on a path rather than allowing us to branch in any way. In an earlier game we all tried to investigate a case, going after really vague clues. NPCs would not know anything except to suggest asking someone else in another part of town. This went on for good long while until we gave up and went back to the starting point. And only once we got back did the GM reveal a new character that would help us get things going.
I don't know what session zero means. We've played a few different modules over the last few years, if that's what you mean. Really it's in reference to investigation much more than anything else. Once I rolled a natural 20 to investigate I still got "oh, uh, hrrrm, I-I don't know, I'm not sure what's happening or why". At the time I was asking a character about his attacks on his house. And yes, he lived at the house. And we were in the house at the time.
I feel like I do. I'm pretty encouraging and I show appreciation when I'm having fun. And I've told him more than once that I respect anyone who GMs because I could never do it myself.
I think I will just follow Barbarulo's and my own advice and just let things play out and enjoy the rest of the module.
lol, I think the rest of the party has already given up. Now they're more interested in getting drunk and having arm wrestles in bars and such. They're also close friends so I do feel left out from time to time.
I think I will just do what I said. Enjoy the fights and save questions for NPCs that will more obviously know things.
A session zero is where you set expectations for what the game is and isn't.
It really depends on the DM and the module. In my early days of 5e, we were playing Lost Mines of Phandelver, except the GM didn't tell us that, he just said he would run a game for us. Not knowing that it was a pre-made adventure, we immediately started going off the rails, much to his dismay. Had I known it was a pre-made, I probably would have toned back my shenanigans a little bit (trying to go places that weren't on the map).
A lot of the times in a pre-made, there is only one way to go about things. So some event happens, and even though there might have been 6 NPCs that saw it, only 1 of them can give you worthwhile info, or you have to ask a very specific question. And so even though you rolled a nat 20, if the NPC doesn't have helpful information, then the DM can't give you much as a player.
It seems like your DM might be struggling with directing the party where their attention and investigations should be. I think the best suggestion I can offer is to ask you DM if there is some way you can roll or otherwise know who the right person to talk to is when stuff happens. Something like each character can roll Insight, Investigation, or Persuasion, and on a 15+ they get an inkling of who looks like they can help the most.
I don't think we've ever had a session zero, but then we all know that we're playing modules for the most part. So it sounds like I need to curb my expectations overall, at least when it comes to investigating.
I'm not going to lie, some of the NPCs in the things, even the ones that serve an important role, are straight-up stupid.
Thanks for the reply, I'm going to just play the rest of the module and enjoy the fighting.
Hello!
I'd like to note that our GM is great in most aspects. In some, however, he's less great.
One of his less-great areas is NPC dialogue. Often times in modules we're going after some kind of mystery. As a player I enjoy writing down and asking questions and taking notes about the story so I can ask better questions later. But he CONSISTENTLY gives me nothing. It's incredibly frustrating: I get all invested and excited only to hit a wall, each and every time. On top of that I have social anxiety and it makes me feel stupid and stresses me out.
He's blamed me and the module each time. It's either that I'm not asking the right characters the right questions or that the NPCs in the module are stupid an uninformed. Even asking people who live in a town about events that happen in the town the answer is usually "I don't know", followed by an excuse.
Recently I told him that I'm not having fun when it comes to investigating. And that, in order to have more fun and be less stressed, I'm going to stop trying to ask questions.
He spent the next half hour, or so, telling me not to stop asking questions. And that he doesn't want me to stop being invested. But he failed to produce a reason to back it up. And he doesn't seem to understand what I told him: that I'm not having fun and getting legitimately upset.
I want to finish the campaign and not create unnecessary drama during game sessions. But I don't know how to make him understand that I need to change the way I'm playing in order to make the game more fun for myself.
I understand your frustration. Not sure how old or experienced your DM is, but it can be challenging to know how much to ad lib, or what information to come up with, in a published campaign, as DM. Some are more comfortable at it than others and you’re probably running past against his comfort level! All I’d suggest is just try doing what you’ve said and see how it goes. Presumably you’re in a party and some of the others can do the heavy lifting as well.
You may want to encourage your GM to get advice and help from other GM's on relevant details for published campaigns, and what would make sense in a homebrew campaign, so that they are playing the NPC's in a more interactive friendly manner.
Just be sure to let the GM know that you enjoy playing with them on most aspects, with only that one needing work, so they know it is genuine critique, and not bashing.
I, as a habitual devil's advocate, will address this issue from another perspective.
What kind of game was decided upon during Session Zero? Was Exploration in the form of conducting investigations given a say at all? For instance, my current game has no investigatory elements. Yes, the PCs are exploring, but they are not sleuthing around the city for clues and interrogating the citizenry. If I want them to know something, the right information reaches their ears/eyes. Given that no module is going to provide enough information, a great deal of ad libbing has to occur if a DM is to craft a reasonable response
If he is running the hardcover adventures (Out of the Abyss, Dragon Heist, Princes of the Apocalypse, etc) for most of the NPCs there isn't much information about what they know / can tell the party. Some people are less comfortable improvising or are worried about accidentally spoiling stuff.
Do you have a specific example of a question and the NPC / the module you were in?
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This has been an ongoing issue across a few different modules. It feels like the GM is determined to keep us on a path rather than allowing us to branch in any way. In an earlier game we all tried to investigate a case, going after really vague clues. NPCs would not know anything except to suggest asking someone else in another part of town. This went on for good long while until we gave up and went back to the starting point. And only once we got back did the GM reveal a new character that would help us get things going.
I don't know what session zero means. We've played a few different modules over the last few years, if that's what you mean. Really it's in reference to investigation much more than anything else. Once I rolled a natural 20 to investigate I still got "oh, uh, hrrrm, I-I don't know, I'm not sure what's happening or why". At the time I was asking a character about his attacks on his house. And yes, he lived at the house. And we were in the house at the time.
I feel like I do. I'm pretty encouraging and I show appreciation when I'm having fun. And I've told him more than once that I respect anyone who GMs because I could never do it myself.
I think I will just follow Barbarulo's and my own advice and just let things play out and enjoy the rest of the module.
lol, I think the rest of the party has already given up. Now they're more interested in getting drunk and having arm wrestles in bars and such. They're also close friends so I do feel left out from time to time.
I think I will just do what I said. Enjoy the fights and save questions for NPCs that will more obviously know things.
A session zero is where you set expectations for what the game is and isn't.
It really depends on the DM and the module. In my early days of 5e, we were playing Lost Mines of Phandelver, except the GM didn't tell us that, he just said he would run a game for us. Not knowing that it was a pre-made adventure, we immediately started going off the rails, much to his dismay. Had I known it was a pre-made, I probably would have toned back my shenanigans a little bit (trying to go places that weren't on the map).
A lot of the times in a pre-made, there is only one way to go about things. So some event happens, and even though there might have been 6 NPCs that saw it, only 1 of them can give you worthwhile info, or you have to ask a very specific question. And so even though you rolled a nat 20, if the NPC doesn't have helpful information, then the DM can't give you much as a player.
It seems like your DM might be struggling with directing the party where their attention and investigations should be. I think the best suggestion I can offer is to ask you DM if there is some way you can roll or otherwise know who the right person to talk to is when stuff happens. Something like each character can roll Insight, Investigation, or Persuasion, and on a 15+ they get an inkling of who looks like they can help the most.
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Thank you, that is good advice.
I don't think we've ever had a session zero, but then we all know that we're playing modules for the most part. So it sounds like I need to curb my expectations overall, at least when it comes to investigating.
I'm not going to lie, some of the NPCs in the things, even the ones that serve an important role, are straight-up stupid.
Thanks for the reply, I'm going to just play the rest of the module and enjoy the fighting.
Huh... is it normal for this forum to no show who it is you're replying to...?
It depends if you hit "Reply" or "Quote".
Reply will send a notification in the background, quote also puts their post on top of yours.
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Okay, cool. Thanks!