(This is my reaction without reading the thread) False.
(Now here's after I read) Spell lists don't make up classes. Then with the example of warlock, while it's my favorite, it sucks, even spell list wise, because they barley have options with the little spells to choose from. Their ability to customize though is made up with invocations and boons. Sorcerers aren't made to be as original as wizards, but they are magic bazookas, they are more original in their subclasses not being boring, they get meta magic, and sorcerery points. I think they are just made to blast away with high damage, not to be utility. But the thing is that they still get a lot of utility, so they're great. And they get as many spells known as warlocks, just not bards, the three classes that are full casters with spells that aren't prepared. You can still even play a low charisma sorcerer, while it isn't great, a low intelligence wizard isn't going to have a great time with their 5 less spells prepared, or even having a negative intelligence for whatever reason.
(This is my reaction without reading the thread) False.
(Now here's after I read) Spell lists don't make up classes. Then with the example of warlock, while it's my favorite, it sucks, even spell list wise, because they barley have options with the little spells to choose from. Their ability to customize though is made up with invocations and boons. Sorcerers aren't made to be as original as wizards, but they are magic bazookas, they are more original in their subclasses not being boring, they get meta magic, and sorcerery points. I think they are just made to blast away with high damage, not to be utility. But the thing is that they still get a lot of utility, so they're great. And they get as many spells known as warlocks, just not bards, the three classes that are full casters with spells that aren't prepared. You can still even play a low charisma sorcerer, while it isn't great, a low intelligence wizard isn't going to have a great time with their 5 less spells prepared, or even having a negative intelligence for whatever reason.
I disagree.
I'm not saying sorcerers are useless, they are very good for roleplaying purposes and are great blasters, but that's it. They are just blasters. They can't choose to be anything else.
One point you make is that they have the same amount of spells known as warlocks. That just proves my point. They get the same amount of spells as Warlocks, but actually less, because Warlocks get Mystic Arcanam. Why does the whole caster who has a whole spellcasting table have less known spells than the warlock, who only has 4 spell slots at most?
How does this make sense? The class meant to be the equal of the wizard knows less spells than the warlock, who not only has a better spell list, but each subclass for warlock has added spells to their warlock spell lists.
Here are my suggestions:
More known spells, at least as much as the bard. This just gives you more versatility.
More unique spells. Chaos bolt doesn't cut it. Is it good? Yes, it does nearly as much damage a chromatic orb with no material components needed. Is it enough? NO! Sure, a class isn't judged on how unique its spell list, but when you think of a spellcasting class, you undoubtedly think about some of their unique spells that only they have access to. Clerics get True Resurrection, Guiding Bolt, Spiritual Weapon. Paladins get their smite spells. Warlocks have Hex, Eldritch Blast, Hunger of Hadar. Druids get Wind Walk, Moonbeam, Shillelagh. Sorcerers deserve a theme, a base for every sorcerer to be able to build off of. Sorcerers aren't just supposed to be Wizards but blastier, they need some powers, some spells, that come from their birthright to magic that define them.
More spell points. My suggestion, make Charisma more useful for Sorcerers. Possibly let them have an amount of sorcery points equal to their level + your charisma modifier. This will help a lot at the lower levels, and give a nice boost at higher levels. The gaining sorcery points on a short rest would also be nice, but I wouldn't do both, just one or the other.
More Metamagic options. Nothing more needs to be said.
Better Capstone. The gaining all Metamagic options would be nice. Possibly something like unleashing all your magic, expending a ton of sorcery points to do some giant burst or something.
Sorcerers don't suck, but they need improvement, and a lot of it.
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Here's another fun fact in this same vein. The Ranger subclasses that get expanded spell lists get to know a total of 16 spells by level 19, where sorcerers cap at 15.
Rangers are half casters...
(And if you factor in the Class Variants UA, all rangers know somewhere around 20 spells at high levels. I haven't counted for sure but it's up near those numbers)
... I rest my case. When the weak-sauciest of weak-sauce classes can beat out a full caster in one of the main metrics of spellpower.... that's just sad.
Sure, spell lists don't make a class, but they play a big part in every spellcaster class, especially whole casters. Sorcerers get one unique spell, rangers get a ton, Ensnaring Strike, Volley, Lightning Arrow, and many more. Why do half casters get more unique spells than Sorcerers, (excluding the Artificer of course, who gets no unique spells, but that's the topic for another thread) and less known spells?
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They get 1 more spell, but its a lower level, and they can only cast spells 15 times. Sorcerers get 22 uses, 25 if you use sorcery points on 5th and 4th level slots. Alternatively you can get rid of 2nd-5th level slots to spam magic missiles 45 times with an extra sorcery point left over. Of course that example is ridiculous and probably shouldn't ever be done. And the ultimate bypass to spells known is wish. While I don't like the spell, you can cast any 0-8th level spell with it, just one time use per day though.
They get 1 more spell, but its a lower level, and they can only cast spells 15 times. Sorcerers get 22 uses, 25 if you use sorcery points on 5th and 4th level slots. Alternatively you can get rid of 2nd-5th level slots to spam magic missiles 45 times with an extra sorcery point left over. Of course that example is ridiculous and probably shouldn't ever be done. And the ultimate bypass to spells known is wish. While I don't like the spell, you can cast any 0-8th level spell with it, just one time use per day though.
Yes, they get one more spell, as a default. Horizon Walkers, Monster Hunters, and Gloom Stalkers all have way more. They are also half casters, and they get more spells than full casters. That is our point.
Sure, sorcerers can spam spells more, but that doesn't make up for our complaints. Yes, sorcerers are great at blasting and spamming. No, this doesn't fill the void of very few unique spells and bad design. One more spell slot at 2nd level sorcerer than wizard doesn't make up for the lack of good abilities and spells. Also, if they were to do this, it would take their bonus action every round.
Wizards also get wish, I don't see your point here. Is it a good spell? Yes. Does it make up for lack of unique spells by letting them cast any spell once a day? No, of course not, they can choose wish as one of their 15 spells at level 17, and almost no campaigns get that high, so a high level ability like that that wizards also get does not make up for the lack of good design compared to the wizard.
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not to mention wizards eventually get unlimited spells per day via spell mastery totally upending the whole sorcerers can cast more often argument.
One point we need to acknowledge is that 5e gave a massive buff to all prepared spellcasting classes and did nothing to buff spontaneous casters so the disparity in power level only became more pronounced with the streamlined rule set. Actually if you look at pathfinder/3.5 the sorcerer had less spells known that a wizard but it had about 2x the amount it currently has in 5e. Granted that is partly due to the change is magic system but when you consider that with the wizard/cleric/druid being given most of what made the sorcerer unique its hard to deny the sorcerer needs fixing.
There are really only 2 ways to fix the sorcerer boost number of spells known or enhance their metamagic/sorcery points.
Metamagic is their defining ability so allowing them to learn additional metamagic options is the way to go. Increase the choice of metamagic options and allow them to learn 8 over 20 lvls seems quite reasonable. Also allow them to enhance spells cast by other casters. Why not use extend to increase the duration of an ally's spell? An enemy fireball is incoming use your reaction to use careful spell on it to give you and your allies advantage on the save. There is a ton of design space that was completely ignored by the designers that would make the sorcerer a ton of fun to play around with. These are just a couple of examples let the sorcerer be the magical tinkerer it was always meant to be.
Sorry guys, but I just don't agree so agree to disagree. I have have played my Sorcerer from 1-15 and my Wizard from 1-20 and have never felt like my sorcerer was under powered. Yes the wizard is much more versatile, but that's by design. My sorcerer does way more damage, also by design, and is the face of that particular party whereas my Wizard rarely engages in speaking to NPCs as he is just not good at it. The free flying as a draconic bloodline is just nuts, so great in so many situations. Higher AC and health that my Wizard without needing mage armor is great as well. I feel the design is good and a very fun class to play.
No class is perfect and all have their deficiencies, which I like! You don't want a ton of all the same class running around because they are objectively better. I do think the Ranger needs work, as well as the monk and a few subclass tweaks here and there.
Sorry guys, but I just don't agree so agree to disagree. I have have played my Sorcerer from 1-15 and my Wizard from 1-20 and have never felt like my sorcerer was under powered. Yes the wizard is much more versatile, but that's by design. My sorcerer does way more damage, also by design, and is the face of that particular party whereas my Wizard rarely engages in speaking to NPCs as he is just not good at it. The free flying as a draconic bloodline is just nuts, so great in so many situations. Higher AC and health that my Wizard without needing mage armor is great as well. I feel the design is good and a very fun class to play.
No class is perfect and all have their deficiencies, which I like! You don't want a ton of all the same class running around because they are objectively better. I do think the Ranger needs work, as well as the monk and a few subclass tweaks here and there.
Again, you're citing only benefits of the Draconic sorcerer, not all sorcerers (excluding the social interaction bit). The reason you like your Draconic sorcerer (and I like mine) is because it does quite a bit to shore up the weaknesses of the base class (which do exist). And aesthetically, it's a really cool class to play. :)
Wild Magic, weak, how often do you actually use the Wild Magic table? How often is the result useless/detrimental?
Shadow Sorcerer. A pretty good sorcerer subclass, they do automatically get darkness that they can cast just with sorcery points which is great, but this doesn't make up for the deficiencies of the base class.
Divine Soul Sorcerer. It is nice to have the added cleric spell list, but it limits your options even more. You have more choices, which makes you less happy with the few spells you can pick.
Storm Sorcerer. This is also a pretty good subclass, but none of them are as good as Draconic Sorcerer.
The subclasses don't make up for the lack of the whole class.
We are discussing the lack of the whole sorcerer, not just the strength of one subclass.
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The Draconic Bloodline is head and shoulders above all other Sorcerous Origins, with the exception of the intentionally overpowered Aberrant Mind (which Wizards will regret releasing as it showed people just how ******* good sorcerers feel with an Origin Spell list). Of course your draconic sorcerer feels like it competes decently with a base Wizard - you're comparing the best Sorcerer subclass there is to the base Wizard class.
Run a Storm Sorcerer sometime, who SOMEHOW only gets to fly four levels after every other flying Sorcerer, and whose other subclass features before 18th level amount to "you do cool storm shit that's flavorful ay-eff despite not actually having any real mechanical benefit more'n maybe once every five sessions or so."
Or a Shadow Sorcerer, i.e. an exercise in "DEAR GOD WHY AM I ALWAYS OUT OF SORCERY POINTS WHY ARE ALL MY CLASS FEATURES DEPENDENT ON THIS TINY POOL OF UNRECOVERABLE BULLSHIT WHY DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF?!"
To say nothing of Wild Magic, or the fact that the Divine Soul shouldn't even frickin' exist.
Yeah, dragonblood sorcerers specifically can, with canny play, manage to compare to the average. Whoo. Much as I enjoy my durganserks, they don't save the entire class.
Exactly, Draconic Sorcerer is good, the others aren't great.
If Wizards of the Coast wants to revitalize 5e, like they did with the Class Feature Variants for the Ranger, they should fix the sorcerer, because it is in desperate need of fixing.
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Wild Magic, weak, how often do you actually use the Wild Magic table? How often is the result useless/detrimental?
Couple points about this.
First off, a lot of people, yes, including DMs, are afraid of Wild Magic simply because there's a 1 in 50 chance that it will trigger Fireball. This can result in your DM never, or rarely, having you roll on the Surge table. This means that you can only ever use the Advantage to an attack, ability check, or saving throw once per Long Rest, because Long Rests and Surges are the only way to get it back. The ability to give yourself advantage practically at will is huge no matter what you are playing. But if your DM is too afraid to have you Surge, you aren't going to get to use it. That's a substantial negative impact on the character.
Second, the Wild Surge table has been analyzed pretty extensively, on many different occasions. 42% of the outcomes range from generally positive (free Levitate on self) to Christmas morning (refill Sorcery Points). 28% of the outcomes are generally irrelevant (you turn blue.... ok then) or slightly negative (you can only speak by yelling). Only 12% are flat out negatives (Polymorph self). The remaining 18% are situational depending on your positioning relative to the enemies and the party (Seppuku Fireball, Invisibility on ALL things in range, etc). 42% positive, 12% negative, 18% situational, 28% largely irrelevant. Those are actually decent odds. Then at Sorc-14 you basically have advantage when rolling on the table -- roll 2 dice and pick the result you want.
Basically, if you aren't constantly using Tides of Chaos to give yourself advantage, and your DM isn't giving you Surges to refresh it, you aren't playing a Wild Sorcerer. In addition to not having access to your baked-in advantage, you're losing out on things like restoring used spell slots, free spell casts like 5th level Magic Missile, all your 1 action spells become 1 bonus action for the next minute (aka 1 minute of free Quickened Spell), free cast of Mirror Image, etc.
It all comes down to sorcerers having more features for a little less versatility, while wizards get more versatility for less features.
Wizards basically stand on spell selection alone with minor buffs from their class/subclass.
Sorcerers are more specialized spellcasters that have more control over the spells themselves, as well as tons of class/subclass features that go off when they cast spells. This is why sorcerers are more commonly played as glass cannons (or strikers, to use the 4e term).
I wouldn't say one is flat out better than the others.
I thought about putting this in the sorcerer forum, but I think it is better here.
Sorcerers have barely any unique spells. This is the main point of the thread. Here are some examples.
Wizard gets Tenser's Transformation, Find Familiar, Bigby's Hand, and many other unique spells.
Same for the Warlock, they get Hellilsh Rebuke, Hex, Armor of Agathys, Hunger of Hadar, and many many more.
What do sorcerer's get? Chaos Bolt. That is it.
Not only do they have a lack of unique spells, but they also learn very few spells, can only change one when they level up, and run out of sorcery points super quickly.
Sorcerers suck.
Any thoughts?
True that the sorcerer class may be bad on its own, but if you multi class the sorcerer becomes one of the most powerful classes in an instant. Try playing around with a few classes. Might I suggest starting out as a fight till level 3 to get the martial archetype and choose eldritch knight and then continue to level 5 so you get a ability increase/feat and you get a second attack. Then what you do is you multiclass into sorcerer. You then get access to Wizard and Sorcerer spells. feel free to correct me on the multiclass
Eldritch Knight, no. or rather, EK doesn't do anything special for sorcerers, and multiclasses better with its native(ish) Wizard.
The two strongest options for Sorcerer are Warlock and Palladalladingdong. Take two levels of Warlock for Eldritch Bonk and Agonizing Doink, take Quicken Magic, gain the ability to spawn an ungodly number of cantrip blasts at higher levels whilst also addressing the sorcerer's generally weak at-will combat.
Or take two levels of Palladalladingdong to gain the ability to Smite, which you then use with all your heaps of Sorcerous spell slots. Green Flame/Booming Blade to make up for lack of Extra Attack, and use Quicken (again) to cast disabling spells as a bonus before whalloping the disabled critter with your sword. The usual is Hold person/Monster to paralyze your target immediately before a godawful huge guaranteed crit Smite.
There's other shenanery one can do, all the Charisma-based casters can intermingle and monkeyphuck with each other to outlandishly powerful effect. It's honestly a little ludicrous how much all of them bounce and resonate off each other, to the point where playing a straight Warlock, Sorcerer, or Palladalladingdong is generally considered almost universally suboptimal. Which is a problem in and of itself, ne?
If I were to make one change to the Sorcerer, it would be the ability to use a bonus action to get more meta magic points by taking hit point damage.
The exact exchange rate can be debated and adjusted for balance. Also, whether this hit point damage is immediately recoverable via a healing spell or can't be recovered until after a short or long rest can also be debated and adjusted for balance.
The Sorcerer is supposed to have magic in their blood. This represents that.
To be fair Sposta, all the metahumper Nova Superburst munchkin multiclasses actually want as many Sorcerer levels as they can get, to maximize sorcery points. Sorcadin, for example, doesn't care about any palladalladingdong level after 2; it's using the sorcerer's casting progression and sorcery points to bust the basic Smite feature.
But yeah. The fact that a straight sorcerer is so drastically inferior in general to "Sorcerer + 2 levels of almost anything else" should indeed be telling.
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(This is my reaction without reading the thread) False.
(Now here's after I read) Spell lists don't make up classes. Then with the example of warlock, while it's my favorite, it sucks, even spell list wise, because they barley have options with the little spells to choose from. Their ability to customize though is made up with invocations and boons.
Sorcerers aren't made to be as original as wizards, but they are magic bazookas, they are more original in their subclasses not being boring, they get meta magic, and sorcerery points. I think they are just made to blast away with high damage, not to be utility. But the thing is that they still get a lot of utility, so they're great. And they get as many spells known as warlocks, just not bards, the three classes that are full casters with spells that aren't prepared. You can still even play a low charisma sorcerer, while it isn't great, a low intelligence wizard isn't going to have a great time with their 5 less spells prepared, or even having a negative intelligence for whatever reason.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
I disagree.
I'm not saying sorcerers are useless, they are very good for roleplaying purposes and are great blasters, but that's it. They are just blasters. They can't choose to be anything else.
One point you make is that they have the same amount of spells known as warlocks. That just proves my point. They get the same amount of spells as Warlocks, but actually less, because Warlocks get Mystic Arcanam. Why does the whole caster who has a whole spellcasting table have less known spells than the warlock, who only has 4 spell slots at most?
How does this make sense? The class meant to be the equal of the wizard knows less spells than the warlock, who not only has a better spell list, but each subclass for warlock has added spells to their warlock spell lists.
Here are my suggestions:
Sorcerers don't suck, but they need improvement, and a lot of it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Wait, does Mystic Arcanum not count towards a Warlock's known spells?!
(Checks character creator)
Huh, apparently not! Didn't know that. Wow, the Warlock is even better than I thought!
EDIT: And wow, that makes Sorcerers even more disappointing...
Here's another fun fact in this same vein. The Ranger subclasses that get expanded spell lists get to know a total of 16 spells by level 19, where sorcerers cap at 15.
Rangers are half casters...
(And if you factor in the Class Variants UA, all rangers know somewhere around 20 spells at high levels. I haven't counted for sure but it's up near those numbers)
... I rest my case. When the weak-sauciest of weak-sauce classes can beat out a full caster in one of the main metrics of spellpower.... that's just sad.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Exactly my point!
Sure, spell lists don't make a class, but they play a big part in every spellcaster class, especially whole casters. Sorcerers get one unique spell, rangers get a ton, Ensnaring Strike, Volley, Lightning Arrow, and many more. Why do half casters get more unique spells than Sorcerers, (excluding the Artificer of course, who gets no unique spells, but that's the topic for another thread) and less known spells?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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They get 1 more spell, but its a lower level, and they can only cast spells 15 times. Sorcerers get 22 uses, 25 if you use sorcery points on 5th and 4th level slots. Alternatively you can get rid of 2nd-5th level slots to spam magic missiles 45 times with an extra sorcery point left over. Of course that example is ridiculous and probably shouldn't ever be done.
And the ultimate bypass to spells known is wish. While I don't like the spell, you can cast any 0-8th level spell with it, just one time use per day though.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Yes, they get one more spell, as a default. Horizon Walkers, Monster Hunters, and Gloom Stalkers all have way more. They are also half casters, and they get more spells than full casters. That is our point.
Sure, sorcerers can spam spells more, but that doesn't make up for our complaints. Yes, sorcerers are great at blasting and spamming. No, this doesn't fill the void of very few unique spells and bad design. One more spell slot at 2nd level sorcerer than wizard doesn't make up for the lack of good abilities and spells. Also, if they were to do this, it would take their bonus action every round.
Wizards also get wish, I don't see your point here. Is it a good spell? Yes. Does it make up for lack of unique spells by letting them cast any spell once a day? No, of course not, they can choose wish as one of their 15 spells at level 17, and almost no campaigns get that high, so a high level ability like that that wizards also get does not make up for the lack of good design compared to the wizard.
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not to mention wizards eventually get unlimited spells per day via spell mastery totally upending the whole sorcerers can cast more often argument.
One point we need to acknowledge is that 5e gave a massive buff to all prepared spellcasting classes and did nothing to buff spontaneous casters so the disparity in power level only became more pronounced with the streamlined rule set. Actually if you look at pathfinder/3.5 the sorcerer had less spells known that a wizard but it had about 2x the amount it currently has in 5e. Granted that is partly due to the change is magic system but when you consider that with the wizard/cleric/druid being given most of what made the sorcerer unique its hard to deny the sorcerer needs fixing.
There are really only 2 ways to fix the sorcerer boost number of spells known or enhance their metamagic/sorcery points.
Metamagic is their defining ability so allowing them to learn additional metamagic options is the way to go. Increase the choice of metamagic options and allow them to learn 8 over 20 lvls seems quite reasonable. Also allow them to enhance spells cast by other casters. Why not use extend to increase the duration of an ally's spell? An enemy fireball is incoming use your reaction to use careful spell on it to give you and your allies advantage on the save. There is a ton of design space that was completely ignored by the designers that would make the sorcerer a ton of fun to play around with. These are just a couple of examples let the sorcerer be the magical tinkerer it was always meant to be.
Sorry guys, but I just don't agree so agree to disagree. I have have played my Sorcerer from 1-15 and my Wizard from 1-20 and have never felt like my sorcerer was under powered. Yes the wizard is much more versatile, but that's by design. My sorcerer does way more damage, also by design, and is the face of that particular party whereas my Wizard rarely engages in speaking to NPCs as he is just not good at it. The free flying as a draconic bloodline is just nuts, so great in so many situations. Higher AC and health that my Wizard without needing mage armor is great as well. I feel the design is good and a very fun class to play.
No class is perfect and all have their deficiencies, which I like! You don't want a ton of all the same class running around because they are objectively better. I do think the Ranger needs work, as well as the monk and a few subclass tweaks here and there.
Again, you're citing only benefits of the Draconic sorcerer, not all sorcerers (excluding the social interaction bit). The reason you like your Draconic sorcerer (and I like mine) is because it does quite a bit to shore up the weaknesses of the base class (which do exist). And aesthetically, it's a really cool class to play. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Draconic Sorcerer is great at doing more damage.
The other sorcerers?
Wild Magic, weak, how often do you actually use the Wild Magic table? How often is the result useless/detrimental?
Shadow Sorcerer. A pretty good sorcerer subclass, they do automatically get darkness that they can cast just with sorcery points which is great, but this doesn't make up for the deficiencies of the base class.
Divine Soul Sorcerer. It is nice to have the added cleric spell list, but it limits your options even more. You have more choices, which makes you less happy with the few spells you can pick.
Storm Sorcerer. This is also a pretty good subclass, but none of them are as good as Draconic Sorcerer.
The subclasses don't make up for the lack of the whole class.
We are discussing the lack of the whole sorcerer, not just the strength of one subclass.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The Draconic Bloodline is head and shoulders above all other Sorcerous Origins, with the exception of the intentionally overpowered Aberrant Mind (which Wizards will regret releasing as it showed people just how ******* good sorcerers feel with an Origin Spell list). Of course your draconic sorcerer feels like it competes decently with a base Wizard - you're comparing the best Sorcerer subclass there is to the base Wizard class.
Run a Storm Sorcerer sometime, who SOMEHOW only gets to fly four levels after every other flying Sorcerer, and whose other subclass features before 18th level amount to "you do cool storm shit that's flavorful ay-eff despite not actually having any real mechanical benefit more'n maybe once every five sessions or so."
Or a Shadow Sorcerer, i.e. an exercise in "DEAR GOD WHY AM I ALWAYS OUT OF SORCERY POINTS WHY ARE ALL MY CLASS FEATURES DEPENDENT ON THIS TINY POOL OF UNRECOVERABLE BULLSHIT WHY DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF?!"
To say nothing of Wild Magic, or the fact that the Divine Soul shouldn't even frickin' exist.
Yeah, dragonblood sorcerers specifically can, with canny play, manage to compare to the average. Whoo. Much as I enjoy my durganserks, they don't save the entire class.
Please do not contact or message me.
Exactly, Draconic Sorcerer is good, the others aren't great.
If Wizards of the Coast wants to revitalize 5e, like they did with the Class Feature Variants for the Ranger, they should fix the sorcerer, because it is in desperate need of fixing.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Couple points about this.
First off, a lot of people, yes, including DMs, are afraid of Wild Magic simply because there's a 1 in 50 chance that it will trigger Fireball. This can result in your DM never, or rarely, having you roll on the Surge table. This means that you can only ever use the Advantage to an attack, ability check, or saving throw once per Long Rest, because Long Rests and Surges are the only way to get it back. The ability to give yourself advantage practically at will is huge no matter what you are playing. But if your DM is too afraid to have you Surge, you aren't going to get to use it. That's a substantial negative impact on the character.
Second, the Wild Surge table has been analyzed pretty extensively, on many different occasions. 42% of the outcomes range from generally positive (free Levitate on self) to Christmas morning (refill Sorcery Points). 28% of the outcomes are generally irrelevant (you turn blue.... ok then) or slightly negative (you can only speak by yelling). Only 12% are flat out negatives (Polymorph self). The remaining 18% are situational depending on your positioning relative to the enemies and the party (Seppuku Fireball, Invisibility on ALL things in range, etc). 42% positive, 12% negative, 18% situational, 28% largely irrelevant. Those are actually decent odds. Then at Sorc-14 you basically have advantage when rolling on the table -- roll 2 dice and pick the result you want.
Basically, if you aren't constantly using Tides of Chaos to give yourself advantage, and your DM isn't giving you Surges to refresh it, you aren't playing a Wild Sorcerer. In addition to not having access to your baked-in advantage, you're losing out on things like restoring used spell slots, free spell casts like 5th level Magic Missile, all your 1 action spells become 1 bonus action for the next minute (aka 1 minute of free Quickened Spell), free cast of Mirror Image, etc.
It all comes down to sorcerers having more features for a little less versatility, while wizards get more versatility for less features.
Wizards basically stand on spell selection alone with minor buffs from their class/subclass.
Sorcerers are more specialized spellcasters that have more control over the spells themselves, as well as tons of class/subclass features that go off when they cast spells. This is why sorcerers are more commonly played as glass cannons (or strikers, to use the 4e term).
I wouldn't say one is flat out better than the others.
True that the sorcerer class may be bad on its own, but if you multi class the sorcerer becomes one of the most powerful classes in an instant. Try playing around with a few classes. Might I suggest starting out as a fight till level 3 to get the martial archetype and choose eldritch knight and then continue to level 5 so you get a ability increase/feat and you get a second attack. Then what you do is you multiclass into sorcerer. You then get access to Wizard and Sorcerer spells. feel free to correct me on the multiclass
Eldritch Knight, no. or rather, EK doesn't do anything special for sorcerers, and multiclasses better with its native(ish) Wizard.
The two strongest options for Sorcerer are Warlock and Palladalladingdong. Take two levels of Warlock for Eldritch Bonk and Agonizing Doink, take Quicken Magic, gain the ability to spawn an ungodly number of cantrip blasts at higher levels whilst also addressing the sorcerer's generally weak at-will combat.
Or take two levels of Palladalladingdong to gain the ability to Smite, which you then use with all your heaps of Sorcerous spell slots. Green Flame/Booming Blade to make up for lack of Extra Attack, and use Quicken (again) to cast disabling spells as a bonus before whalloping the disabled critter with your sword. The usual is Hold person/Monster to paralyze your target immediately before a godawful huge guaranteed crit Smite.
There's other shenanery one can do, all the Charisma-based casters can intermingle and monkeyphuck with each other to outlandishly powerful effect. It's honestly a little ludicrous how much all of them bounce and resonate off each other, to the point where playing a straight Warlock, Sorcerer, or Palladalladingdong is generally considered almost universally suboptimal. Which is a problem in and of itself, ne?
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If I were to make one change to the Sorcerer, it would be the ability to use a bonus action to get more meta magic points by taking hit point damage.
The exact exchange rate can be debated and adjusted for balance. Also, whether this hit point damage is immediately recoverable via a healing spell or can't be recovered until after a short or long rest can also be debated and adjusted for balance.
The Sorcerer is supposed to have magic in their blood. This represents that.
When the best part about Sorcerers is how good a dip they are for Paladins, Warlocks, and Bards it should tell us something....
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To be fair Sposta, all the metahumper Nova Superburst munchkin multiclasses actually want as many Sorcerer levels as they can get, to maximize sorcery points. Sorcadin, for example, doesn't care about any palladalladingdong level after 2; it's using the sorcerer's casting progression and sorcery points to bust the basic Smite feature.
But yeah. The fact that a straight sorcerer is so drastically inferior in general to "Sorcerer + 2 levels of almost anything else" should indeed be telling.
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