New player here. I'm playing DnD for the first time with some friends I've known for a while now. We're about 3 sessions in and despite my character being a true neutral Cleric, all my party mates have been very rude to me(and my pc), calling me a coward for staying in the back (despite their characters being Lawful Good and "nice guys") as well as criticizing me for not rolling super high on my healing rolls. I've been talking to my DM in the dm's and even she says they're being insanely rude. Because of their actions, I have been thinking of potentially turning on the group as I believe their actions would turn my character away/turn on them. Now my cleric is of the Trickery Domain so I believe that it would be something my character would do. Now I've read this can be campaign-ending. But if I coordinate with my GM on potentially betraying the group, would this be an acceptable thing? I would like to believe they are acting unlike their characters and this could be some good karma. Only 2 out of the 5 of us have any experience, so perhaps a learning experience as well?
Assuming you have and the DM is on your side, a little in character course correction could be a good lesson. Nothing TPK level, but maybe refuse to heal them, then knock them out and take their stuff, then retire the character and roll anew.
as criticizing me for not rolling super high on my healing rolls
This is completely unacceptable... What are you supposed to do, use weighted dice? (That's called "cheating" by the way...)
This sounds like an OOC problem not an IC one. I always have believed that handling an OOC situation IC is not a good idea. I think maybe you and the DM should just have a conversation with them and ask them what is up. Especially ask them why in the world they are criticizing you for how your dice are rolling.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Betraying the party has to be done carefully, but if the DM agrees they're being unreasonable, go ahead. Screw them. Join the enemies for a battle, or get them to do something illegal in a town and get them imprisoned. Once in prison, make sure they don't escape, and put them to death, or something. If it is warranted, you as a cleric, especially Trickery Domain, should be able to screw them completely.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I wouldn't betray them, but I would put them in their place. As the cleric, you have a lot of power. Choose to not heal them at all, and see how they like it. Give them a reason to appreciate your low heals, and when they drop and they beg for a heal, ask them why your character would do that? So-and-so treats me like crap, why would I heal him?
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
You are not betraying them. They failed you as a party members by berating you.
In character seeing how the interact with me I would not heal them or fight with them. I'd hold that back as long as possible until they realize they needed healing. Then a choice has to be made. When they are down and hurt.. surrender to those attacking you. It gives the DM a nice story to play out and you can even goin the attacking creatures. Or then finally healing them to win the fight.
It's an open world. It at least should be. I'd let them charge in and until they became good friends in game I wouldn't help them.
Learning lesson.. don't be an arse to your fellow playedp cause you might just need them. Especially if they are going against their alignment.
It sounds like you may be younger and your behavior in your group could have spill over impacts to real life.
This is something your DM should handle. A vision for the whole party to experience together where your deity expresses how they are pleased by your devotion and then assigns a quest to you and your party that is focused on you might get them to reconsider your worth.
If the other party members don't get on board you should find new folks to play with. Betraying the party can lead to other long term problems and you don't want to repay evil for evil. If that must be done, let the DM do it.
One of the things here is that, the character betraying the party is an in-character action. The players complaining about your die rolls is an out of character action. These two things need to be kept separate. You should not try to address, in character, a behavior that is coming from the players, not their characters. This is a player-to-player problem, and should be addressed outside of character interactions. It's always a terrible idea (TM) to address in-character, an issue that is happening out of character. This would be tantamount to complaining about your Cleric casting Create Food and Water when you were the one who was supposed to bring the corn chips to the session and you left them home on the kitchen counter. Don't mix the two things. Address player issues player to player, and character issues character-to-character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Have you ever read William Shakespeare’s Taming of the Shrew?
”I wouldn’t deign to use my paltry healing abilities on you. *heals self* You are mighty warriors, and I am noodle-brained cleric who cannot roll above a 3 on a d8. *heals self* My healing would be an insult to such as yourselves. *heals self* I wouldn’t sully your good names with my blatantly inferior magic. *heals self*....”
OOC problems and IC problems do not mix well. The mention of low dice is OOC. That means the criticisms of your strategies is also likely OOC. The source books recommend keeping OOC out of IC. Betrayal might seem like a good idea but it reads like petty revenge IC from OOC sentiments.
In-game is not the place to deal with real-world personal conflicts.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Were it my table, I would pull everyone together and and say "this behavior is unacceptable and it needs to change." I suggest you ask your DM to do the same, and with their support lay out that this shit isn't fun for you.
If they still won't respect that, then don't even associate with that table anymore, just leave. By that point, all you're going to get is toxic bullshit, and it's better to find a group that will respect you as a player.
EDIT: It's a shame that the rest of the table is shitty because it sounds like you have a DM you can work with. If it comes to you leaving, maybe see if you can run with a different group with that same person, but otherwise don't even bother with the rest.
As a DM, there is no way I would allow players to use OOC information IC without having a conversation. The first time they complained in character about die rolls I would remind them. If they kept doing it, there'd start being things like XP penalties and other sanctions. Using OOC information IC is metagaming. Not allowed at my table.
If it makes you feel any better OP, my dice rolls are so abysmal that back in the 4e days, when I was playing a ranger, my group instituted a house rule that when I rolled snake eyes on my twin strike attacks, they counted as crits. I've scored snakeye crits on no fewer than three occasions, and the houserule remains intact 10 years later. they let me play healer for them too; but I always ask them if they want to roll the heal or if they want me to do it. Usually, they have me roll it anyways.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
We had a guy whose rolls were so unlucky he was not allowed to touch anyone else's dice. We teased him mercilessly about it. But we never had our characters make fun of his characters over it.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My own group pokes fun at our terrible rolls, but when it happens it's usually directed at ourselves (and they're usually my terrible rolls to begin with), and never to the point where anyone actually feels uncomfortable.
It's pretty much already been said, but talking PC to PC maybe better than full on renegading in game. Yes, do a few smaller things in game like not healing, but not to get to petty about it as it will spill out into RL.
If they are berating you for low rolls, well then they aren't enjoying the game, part of the fun of DnD is the random element of dice rolls, no matter how they fall. Some of my most memorable moments are rolling Nat 1's. But if only 2 out of 5 of you are experienced, then it's up to those 2 (I assume one if the DM) to guide the rest and help have a good experience and for the 3 newer players to be open to the experience of RPG's no matter what the dice gods throw at you.
Cleric's can honestly kick ass when they can call down the power of god but can be a little squishy, so yes, they would stay at the back and try not to get hit, that's what Barbs, Paladins and Fighter classes are for.
My rolls are shy in the quantum realm. I can roll 18+ all day long until (1d20 or 4d6 for character gen)... until they are observed by a 3rd party. That's why, for char gen to use in a game, I go with the standard array. A character with 5 or 6 negative bonuses (even with racial adjustments) is ridiculous. You'd think we'd get some kind of RAW reroll for rolling four 1s in character gen... not that it would help me much.
Now that I think about it, I should name every at-the-table dice-rolled character, "Fumbles, the ____". Fumbles, the Bard. Fumbles, the Warlock. Fumbles, the Barbarian... Except for Monk.
It seems that, only with Monk, I have any chance of decent or better rolls at character-gen or in-game, but I don't wanna be monastic (and, luckily, you don't really have to be if your DM agrees to your reasons for having Monk abilities while being non-monastic - not because "I can't roll well with any other class", though - something RP-worthy).
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Hey everyone!
New player here. I'm playing DnD for the first time with some friends I've known for a while now. We're about 3 sessions in and despite my character being a true neutral Cleric, all my party mates have been very rude to me(and my pc), calling me a coward for staying in the back (despite their characters being Lawful Good and "nice guys") as well as criticizing me for not rolling super high on my healing rolls. I've been talking to my DM in the dm's and even she says they're being insanely rude. Because of their actions, I have been thinking of potentially turning on the group as I believe their actions would turn my character away/turn on them. Now my cleric is of the Trickery Domain so I believe that it would be something my character would do. Now I've read this can be campaign-ending. But if I coordinate with my GM on potentially betraying the group, would this be an acceptable thing? I would like to believe they are acting unlike their characters and this could be some good karma. Only 2 out of the 5 of us have any experience, so perhaps a learning experience as well?
Thoughts? Thanks
Have you tried just talking to them?
Assuming you have and the DM is on your side, a little in character course correction could be a good lesson. Nothing TPK level, but maybe refuse to heal them, then knock them out and take their stuff, then retire the character and roll anew.
This is completely unacceptable... What are you supposed to do, use weighted dice? (That's called "cheating" by the way...)
This sounds like an OOC problem not an IC one. I always have believed that handling an OOC situation IC is not a good idea. I think maybe you and the DM should just have a conversation with them and ask them what is up. Especially ask them why in the world they are criticizing you for how your dice are rolling.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Betraying the party has to be done carefully, but if the DM agrees they're being unreasonable, go ahead. Screw them. Join the enemies for a battle, or get them to do something illegal in a town and get them imprisoned. Once in prison, make sure they don't escape, and put them to death, or something. If it is warranted, you as a cleric, especially Trickery Domain, should be able to screw them completely.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I wouldn't betray them, but I would put them in their place. As the cleric, you have a lot of power. Choose to not heal them at all, and see how they like it. Give them a reason to appreciate your low heals, and when they drop and they beg for a heal, ask them why your character would do that? So-and-so treats me like crap, why would I heal him?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You are not betraying them. They failed you as a party members by berating you.
In character seeing how the interact with me I would not heal them or fight with them. I'd hold that back as long as possible until they realize they needed healing. Then a choice has to be made. When they are down and hurt.. surrender to those attacking you. It gives the DM a nice story to play out and you can even goin the attacking creatures. Or then finally healing them to win the fight.
It's an open world. It at least should be. I'd let them charge in and until they became good friends in game I wouldn't help them.
Learning lesson.. don't be an arse to your fellow playedp cause you might just need them. Especially if they are going against their alignment.
Let them die and watch from far behind.
I wouldn't betray the party no matter what.
It sounds like you may be younger and your behavior in your group could have spill over impacts to real life.
This is something your DM should handle. A vision for the whole party to experience together where your deity expresses how they are pleased by your devotion and then assigns a quest to you and your party that is focused on you might get them to reconsider your worth.
If the other party members don't get on board you should find new folks to play with. Betraying the party can lead to other long term problems and you don't want to repay evil for evil. If that must be done, let the DM do it.
Good luck and have fun.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
One of the things here is that, the character betraying the party is an in-character action. The players complaining about your die rolls is an out of character action. These two things need to be kept separate. You should not try to address, in character, a behavior that is coming from the players, not their characters. This is a player-to-player problem, and should be addressed outside of character interactions. It's always a terrible idea (TM) to address in-character, an issue that is happening out of character. This would be tantamount to complaining about your Cleric casting Create Food and Water when you were the one who was supposed to bring the corn chips to the session and you left them home on the kitchen counter. Don't mix the two things. Address player issues player to player, and character issues character-to-character.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Have you ever read William Shakespeare’s Taming of the Shrew?
”I wouldn’t deign to use my paltry healing abilities on you. *heals self* You are mighty warriors, and I am noodle-brained cleric who cannot roll above a 3 on a d8. *heals self* My healing would be an insult to such as yourselves. *heals self* I wouldn’t sully your good names with my blatantly inferior magic. *heals self*....”
That oughtta fix ‘em!
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
OOC problems and IC problems do not mix well. The mention of low dice is OOC. That means the criticisms of your strategies is also likely OOC. The source books recommend keeping OOC out of IC. Betrayal might seem like a good idea but it reads like petty revenge IC from OOC sentiments.
In-game is not the place to deal with real-world personal conflicts.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I completely agree with this.
Were it my table, I would pull everyone together and and say "this behavior is unacceptable and it needs to change." I suggest you ask your DM to do the same, and with their support lay out that this shit isn't fun for you.
If they still won't respect that, then don't even associate with that table anymore, just leave. By that point, all you're going to get is toxic bullshit, and it's better to find a group that will respect you as a player.
EDIT: It's a shame that the rest of the table is shitty because it sounds like you have a DM you can work with. If it comes to you leaving, maybe see if you can run with a different group with that same person, but otherwise don't even bother with the rest.
The DM needs to deal with this.
As a DM, there is no way I would allow players to use OOC information IC without having a conversation. The first time they complained in character about die rolls I would remind them. If they kept doing it, there'd start being things like XP penalties and other sanctions. Using OOC information IC is metagaming. Not allowed at my table.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If it makes you feel any better OP, my dice rolls are so abysmal that back in the 4e days, when I was playing a ranger, my group instituted a house rule that when I rolled snake eyes on my twin strike attacks, they counted as crits. I've scored snakeye crits on no fewer than three occasions, and the houserule remains intact 10 years later. they let me play healer for them too; but I always ask them if they want to roll the heal or if they want me to do it. Usually, they have me roll it anyways.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
We had a guy whose rolls were so unlucky he was not allowed to touch anyone else's dice. We teased him mercilessly about it. But we never had our characters make fun of his characters over it.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My own group pokes fun at our terrible rolls, but when it happens it's usually directed at ourselves (and they're usually my terrible rolls to begin with), and never to the point where anyone actually feels uncomfortable.
It's pretty much already been said, but talking PC to PC maybe better than full on renegading in game. Yes, do a few smaller things in game like not healing, but not to get to petty about it as it will spill out into RL.
If they are berating you for low rolls, well then they aren't enjoying the game, part of the fun of DnD is the random element of dice rolls, no matter how they fall. Some of my most memorable moments are rolling Nat 1's. But if only 2 out of 5 of you are experienced, then it's up to those 2 (I assume one if the DM) to guide the rest and help have a good experience and for the 3 newer players to be open to the experience of RPG's no matter what the dice gods throw at you.
Cleric's can honestly kick ass when they can call down the power of god but can be a little squishy, so yes, they would stay at the back and try not to get hit, that's what Barbs, Paladins and Fighter classes are for.
I am a square. Watch me equilateral.
My rolls are shy in the quantum realm. I can roll 18+ all day long until (1d20 or 4d6 for character gen)... until they are observed by a 3rd party. That's why, for char gen to use in a game, I go with the standard array. A character with 5 or 6 negative bonuses (even with racial adjustments) is ridiculous. You'd think we'd get some kind of RAW reroll for rolling four 1s in character gen... not that it would help me much.
Now that I think about it, I should name every at-the-table dice-rolled character, "Fumbles, the ____". Fumbles, the Bard. Fumbles, the Warlock. Fumbles, the Barbarian... Except for Monk.
It seems that, only with Monk, I have any chance of decent or better rolls at character-gen or in-game, but I don't wanna be monastic (and, luckily, you don't really have to be if your DM agrees to your reasons for having Monk abilities while being non-monastic - not because "I can't roll well with any other class", though - something RP-worthy).
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Would your die rolls be good if you recorded it with say a camera? Does only a person watching you affect it? :)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Maybe they're related to the Invisible Boy from Mystery Men!