My players are currently fighting over their morals. One is a lawful neutral guard, while the other is a chaotic neutral who just attacked another towns guard. I don't know how to deal with this. It isn't the first time the CN character has done something bad. He's currently hiding scraps of skin and pieces of dead bodies in his backpack. I ended the session early so They could calm down. But What will happen when we rejoin? I don't know how to fix this. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP
EDIT 4/26/20
IRL he's like a Lawful evil. I don't know. He's playing a turtle and I want to find a way to resolve this peacefuly, and he's stated that he's unable to do that normally. I'm trying to help it. Thanks though. I don't really know what to do
Why did the CN character attack the town guard? Was there a reason? To save a friend or something? Or is the player just portraying the character as if chaotic = randomly do stuff for no good reason?
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It sounds like you're feeling the CN player is dipping closer to chaotic evil which isn't jiving with the group? I mean, hiding scraps of skin and bodies in a backpack has to have a REALLY solid justification to fit with the chaotic neutral alignment. I'd suggest just talking to the player outside of the game and ask what their justification is. What's their end game for playing their character that way. If they have a reason that's, well, reasonable, then I'd probably bring that conversation to the rest of the players. Tell them why he's behaving this way and hopefully a discussion can be had that includes everyone and can resolve any tension.
However, if the player has no justification and they are just trying to be disruptive... I'd nip that in the bud. I'd probably throw in game obstacles in their way that made it very clear that their behavior doesn't benefit their character.
Like... Someone with a high passive perception walks by saying "What the heck is that? You've got death in your pack. Explain yourself right now or there will be consequences" while his friends gather around him.
Sometimes characters die because of overwhelming odds... happen all the time :) No, that's a very last resort! I was trying to be funny. Don't kill a character off just because you don't understand how they're playing. Just talk to them :)
The player with the CN character is portraying a character in a bad light, does the player have aggression issues or other odd habits. I would talk with them about this and soon
Definitely talk with the player out of character. Ask him why he is doing these things and don't let him use "chaotic neutral" as an excuse. Walking around with pieces of skin and dead bodies is not chaotic... it's psychotic. It's the kind of thing real-world serial killers do.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
"It's the kind of thing real-world serial killers do." LMAO... no joke man!
and in combination with this "does the player have aggression issues or other odd habits. I would talk with them about this and soon"
I feel like we've almost got the plot to a movie here.... The psychopathic D&D player who hides his perversions in plain sight under the guise of role-playing...
(Ok, so shit, I just realized that if this is an actual problem and the player does have issues that they are acting out on through the campaign then that's not a joke. I've had an experience like that with someone who was my friend when I was young and I used to hang out with him with my cousins and play D&D and play music and whatever. But he had psychotic tenancies in the D&D games and then we started to notice that the tendencies weren't just around the table. I won't get into details but a lot of bad shit happened. Including assault charges and **** charges in time. So if it's something like that (and god I hope not!) than this is a much bigger conversation and feel free to PM me!)
depends on how well you know him in real life too. if you've know him for 20 years - the character gets caught by the rest of the guard...tried and hung. Easy fix.
if its some scrawny little guy you barely know with a ridiculous gun tattoo on his forearm you might want to consider no longer playing with him.
and kind of all the options in between those two...especially the previously recommended 'talk to him' - just let him know as you a DM you don't like adventures going down that path....and if that doesn't work you always have the very real option of just stop playing and find a new group...some problems aren't worth D&D. and most problems just don't fix themselves by ignoring them.
Yeah that's not chaotic neutral. It's evil. And even selfish, evil characters are smart enough to know that you stand to gain way more adventuring with a group than by just randomly killing peasants in town. Sounds like you guys need to set some basic rules about character behavior with the real consequence of being booted if you can't play along.
Yeah, this is a thing that needs to be resolved out-of-character.
In-character, there's a very straightforward resolution - the player with the LN town guard would turn in his (now-ex) traveling companion to the city guard for assault. The party would break up.
But... this doesn't work, because then the two people have to sit down and play D&D together, and what next? So it needs to be resolved out-of-character. Possible ways of resolving it could be:
1) The chaotic neutral guy changes his character to be more lawful or good, retcon the assault so that it never happened and the party stays together. (Or the player+DM kill off or send off this character and make a new one that's not CN/CE.)
2) The campaign changes to a more pure dungeon-crawl. Send them to a dungeon where they face Designated Monsters that it's ok to stab just because - undead, fiends, devils, whatever. A LG and CE character can both happily go into a dungeon and murderkill gelatinous cubes together. They come out just long enough to shop and get their next quest dungeon location, with the shopkeepers/questgivers having convenient plot/magical armor so they don't get murderhoboed.
3) The LN player makes a new CE character, they go off and do crimes.
But those should be resolved with an out-of-character discussion - because two of them involve the players changing around their character in some form, and the middle one involves changing the direction of the campaign.
My players are currently fighting over their morals. One is a lawful neutral guard, while the other is a chaotic neutral who just attacked another towns guard. I don't know how to deal with this. It isn't the first time the CN character has done something bad. He's currently hiding scraps of skin and pieces of dead bodies in his backpack. I ended the session early so They could calm down. But What will happen when we rejoin? I don't know how to fix this. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP
EDIT 4/26/20
IRL he's like a Lawful evil. I don't know. He's playing a turtle and I want to find a way to resolve this peacefuly, and he's stated that he's unable to do that normally. I'm trying to help it. Thanks though. I don't really know what to do
Why did the CN character attack the town guard? Was there a reason? To save a friend or something? Or is the player just portraying the character as if chaotic = randomly do stuff for no good reason?
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It sounds like you're feeling the CN player is dipping closer to chaotic evil which isn't jiving with the group? I mean, hiding scraps of skin and bodies in a backpack has to have a REALLY solid justification to fit with the chaotic neutral alignment. I'd suggest just talking to the player outside of the game and ask what their justification is. What's their end game for playing their character that way. If they have a reason that's, well, reasonable, then I'd probably bring that conversation to the rest of the players. Tell them why he's behaving this way and hopefully a discussion can be had that includes everyone and can resolve any tension.
However, if the player has no justification and they are just trying to be disruptive... I'd nip that in the bud. I'd probably throw in game obstacles in their way that made it very clear that their behavior doesn't benefit their character.
Like... Someone with a high passive perception walks by saying "What the heck is that? You've got death in your pack. Explain yourself right now or there will be consequences" while his friends gather around him.
Sometimes characters die because of overwhelming odds... happen all the time :) No, that's a very last resort! I was trying to be funny. Don't kill a character off just because you don't understand how they're playing. Just talk to them :)
That's what happens when you wear a helmet your whole life!
My house rules
The player with the CN character is portraying a character in a bad light, does the player have aggression issues or other odd habits. I would talk with them about this and soon
Definitely talk with the player out of character. Ask him why he is doing these things and don't let him use "chaotic neutral" as an excuse. Walking around with pieces of skin and dead bodies is not chaotic... it's psychotic. It's the kind of thing real-world serial killers do.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
"It's the kind of thing real-world serial killers do." LMAO... no joke man!
and in combination with this "does the player have aggression issues or other odd habits. I would talk with them about this and soon"
I feel like we've almost got the plot to a movie here.... The psychopathic D&D player who hides his perversions in plain sight under the guise of role-playing...
(Ok, so shit, I just realized that if this is an actual problem and the player does have issues that they are acting out on through the campaign then that's not a joke. I've had an experience like that with someone who was my friend when I was young and I used to hang out with him with my cousins and play D&D and play music and whatever. But he had psychotic tenancies in the D&D games and then we started to notice that the tendencies weren't just around the table. I won't get into details but a lot of bad shit happened. Including assault charges and **** charges in time. So if it's something like that (and god I hope not!) than this is a much bigger conversation and feel free to PM me!)
That's what happens when you wear a helmet your whole life!
My house rules
depends on how well you know him in real life too. if you've know him for 20 years - the character gets caught by the rest of the guard...tried and hung. Easy fix.
if its some scrawny little guy you barely know with a ridiculous gun tattoo on his forearm you might want to consider no longer playing with him.
and kind of all the options in between those two...especially the previously recommended 'talk to him' - just let him know as you a DM you don't like adventures going down that path....and if that doesn't work you always have the very real option of just stop playing and find a new group...some problems aren't worth D&D. and most problems just don't fix themselves by ignoring them.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Yeah that's not chaotic neutral. It's evil. And even selfish, evil characters are smart enough to know that you stand to gain way more adventuring with a group than by just randomly killing peasants in town. Sounds like you guys need to set some basic rules about character behavior with the real consequence of being booted if you can't play along.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I always saw CN as the Han Solo not Darth Maul type. “Gee man that sounds shady. How much coin do you have? Yeah OK not my problem. “
I hate player conflict so much. Sometimes I want to grab players by the ear and yell at them that this is a game and just play it.
But I can't. 1) I cant do that
2) I can't due to quarantine
He claims it's not moral, but it makes sense.
He wants to raise the dead bodies. fully. A level 17 spell. He's LV. 3
Make him watch this video, because like it or not, it doesn't sound like there's anything "neutral" about his behavior.
https://youtu.be/kVuF4fkRD2c
Yeah, this is a thing that needs to be resolved out-of-character.
In-character, there's a very straightforward resolution - the player with the LN town guard would turn in his (now-ex) traveling companion to the city guard for assault. The party would break up.
But... this doesn't work, because then the two people have to sit down and play D&D together, and what next? So it needs to be resolved out-of-character. Possible ways of resolving it could be:
1) The chaotic neutral guy changes his character to be more lawful or good, retcon the assault so that it never happened and the party stays together. (Or the player+DM kill off or send off this character and make a new one that's not CN/CE.)
2) The campaign changes to a more pure dungeon-crawl. Send them to a dungeon where they face Designated Monsters that it's ok to stab just because - undead, fiends, devils, whatever. A LG and CE character can both happily go into a dungeon and murderkill gelatinous cubes together. They come out just long enough to shop and get their next quest dungeon location, with the shopkeepers/questgivers having convenient plot/magical armor so they don't get murderhoboed.
3) The LN player makes a new CE character, they go off and do crimes.
But those should be resolved with an out-of-character discussion - because two of them involve the players changing around their character in some form, and the middle one involves changing the direction of the campaign.
Worst is...
They're brothers in real life.
I am the guard in this scenario, I'm sorry poor DM. I didn't mean to cause you distress.
I exist, and I guess so does this
You folks should be discussing this in person with each other rather than on the forums.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.