It's not bad design because it was trapped. It's not bad design because it was an inescapable trap. It's bad design because once the trap was sprung, the party had lost but the DM didn't tell them that. So they struggled helplessly to win an unwinnable situation, which coincidentally feels a lot like railroading. In both cases, the players have no agency in what happens next; they are just along for the ride.
If springing the trap means the party is going to be captured (which is fine - I'm not saying the party can never lose), just tell them that or narrate it. Don't let them roll initiative and spend 20 minutes trying to play a game they can't win.
I see your point, but with my group specifically, I think they would actually prefer fighting the impossible battle. Sure, losing was nearly guaranteed, but with some ridiculous luck and tactical decisions they might win. I think they would feel like they had less agency if their loss was just narrated. (Just to clarify, this is for my group specifically. Other groups probably feel differently.)
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The only thing that made me cringe was the uber sleep spell. Regular sleep spell, no problem. I don't think "railroading" is the proper term. The player thought it was unfair that half the party fell to the trap without a roll to avoid or a means to wake them up. They had to sit back and watch the other half of the party fight it out as fans with no hope of getting back in the mix. That is what made them upset. I completely understand that it is their fault for not picking up on the clues.
BUT, ask yourself if you really thought the chest would not be tripped? Asked yourself if you really wanted it to be tripped? Ask yourself if you took enjoyment when your masterly crafted trap was flung. I'm guessing the answers may be "No", "Yes", and "Yes". If you include a trap that you hope is released, I would give them at least a fighting chance. Taking Actions to wake them up while defending against 4 attackers would have made for an enjoyable battle for the players even if there is probably the same final result.
This sort of reminds me of a "save-or-die" spell/trap. You do things right (or get lucky with a roll) you live. Otherwise you die. Except doubly so in this situations, because it's like a party-wide save or suck.
I don't think it's "railroading", but there's a reason 5e has generally gone with "Resource depletion" as an approach rather than "Fail once, you lose." People get frustrated with "one mistake = death" mechanics (and in this case, the person frustrated wasn't even the one who tripped the trap - makes sense that they feel they literally couldn't have done anything to avoid their fate).
I don't think you did anything wrong, it sounds like a well-designed and fair encounter. For me it's a good reminder in my mind that I should generally think about traps/challenges design in similar terms to setting up fights - expect it to take some average amount of the players' resources (more if they roll or decide poorly, less if they roll or decide well) and avoid "you made a mistake, now you're screwed" situations.
Thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate all the feedback you gave.
I, personally, think that I messed up by making that sleep spell harder to break. The player and I did talk, and although it got a bit hostile, I think we were able to find the middle ground.
If I could do it all over again, I would have just made the trap a Paralyzing Gas with a high DC. Aside from that, I think everything I did was fair and I stand by them. The trap was harsh because it was a dangerous place. Although I agree that most traps should be used for resource depletion, I believe that some traps warrant a harsher consequence for the players.
I think it's realistic that sometimes when you mess up things you get some really hard consequences that you almost can't recover from. I won't do that often, but trespassing in a Kryn Spy Bunker, I believe warrants that kind of high-stake trap.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you very much!
It's not bad design because it was trapped. It's not bad design because it was an inescapable trap. It's bad design because once the trap was sprung, the party had lost but the DM didn't tell them that. So they struggled helplessly to win an unwinnable situation, which coincidentally feels a lot like railroading. In both cases, the players have no agency in what happens next; they are just along for the ride.
If springing the trap means the party is going to be captured (which is fine - I'm not saying the party can never lose), just tell them that or narrate it. Don't let them roll initiative and spend 20 minutes trying to play a game they can't win.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I see your point, but with my group specifically, I think they would actually prefer fighting the impossible battle. Sure, losing was nearly guaranteed, but with some ridiculous luck and tactical decisions they might win. I think they would feel like they had less agency if their loss was just narrated. (Just to clarify, this is for my group specifically. Other groups probably feel differently.)
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
The only thing that made me cringe was the uber sleep spell. Regular sleep spell, no problem. I don't think "railroading" is the proper term. The player thought it was unfair that half the party fell to the trap without a roll to avoid or a means to wake them up. They had to sit back and watch the other half of the party fight it out as fans with no hope of getting back in the mix. That is what made them upset. I completely understand that it is their fault for not picking up on the clues.
BUT, ask yourself if you really thought the chest would not be tripped? Asked yourself if you really wanted it to be tripped? Ask yourself if you took enjoyment when your masterly crafted trap was flung. I'm guessing the answers may be "No", "Yes", and "Yes". If you include a trap that you hope is released, I would give them at least a fighting chance. Taking Actions to wake them up while defending against 4 attackers would have made for an enjoyable battle for the players even if there is probably the same final result.
This sort of reminds me of a "save-or-die" spell/trap. You do things right (or get lucky with a roll) you live. Otherwise you die. Except doubly so in this situations, because it's like a party-wide save or suck.
I don't think it's "railroading", but there's a reason 5e has generally gone with "Resource depletion" as an approach rather than "Fail once, you lose." People get frustrated with "one mistake = death" mechanics (and in this case, the person frustrated wasn't even the one who tripped the trap - makes sense that they feel they literally couldn't have done anything to avoid their fate).
I don't think you did anything wrong, it sounds like a well-designed and fair encounter. For me it's a good reminder in my mind that I should generally think about traps/challenges design in similar terms to setting up fights - expect it to take some average amount of the players' resources (more if they roll or decide poorly, less if they roll or decide well) and avoid "you made a mistake, now you're screwed" situations.
Thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate all the feedback you gave.
I, personally, think that I messed up by making that sleep spell harder to break. The player and I did talk, and although it got a bit hostile, I think we were able to find the middle ground.
If I could do it all over again, I would have just made the trap a Paralyzing Gas with a high DC. Aside from that, I think everything I did was fair and I stand by them. The trap was harsh because it was a dangerous place. Although I agree that most traps should be used for resource depletion, I believe that some traps warrant a harsher consequence for the players.
I think it's realistic that sometimes when you mess up things you get some really hard consequences that you almost can't recover from. I won't do that often, but trespassing in a Kryn Spy Bunker, I believe warrants that kind of high-stake trap.
Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you very much!