There is not enough facepalm in the world for this shit...
VInce. Snetterton.
Listen to me.
I don't give a single tuna turd what you do with your own games at home. You want to outlaw every new class and species introduced since 2e? Go for it. You want to impose strict species/class limitations on your games? Have at it. You wanna tell your players that you've pregenerated characters for your campaign and they can use what you wrote or hit the highway? Do it up. If your players agree, you're golden. I have no business telling you how to run your own personal home games.
Stop ****ing trying to tell me how to run mine.
If you can't understand why some players would deeply appreciate more flexibility in character generation? Oh well, I clearly can't convince you and I honestly don't care to try anymore. Similarly, if you can't see how some of the default assumptions in Forgotten Realms lore are potentially unhelpful to folks who do not have the great good luxury of being a white cisgender male, again. I clearly can't convince you, and I don't care to try.
Your games are yours to run as you see fit. Use whichever edition you like, play whatever rules makes your table a happy place. I will never tell you otherwise. In turn, you can STOP telling everybody else that we're having our own fun wrong and we need to use your rules or nothing. I don't like your rules, and I will not have them at my table. That is just as much my right as a DM and a player as it is your right to tell Tasha's Cauldron to get the hell out of your house.
Knock it off. And quit riding my ass over it, while you're at it.
**
EDIT: Thank you, Jounichi. I appreciate you making that gesture. Yeah, I can let my tendency towards bombast run away with me at times. There are ways an elf could learn their traditional weaponry beyond the Forest Guardian model, but I do admit I prefer the idea of a character choosing their tools and learning. The entries for elves in a theoretical 6e PHB could list weapons and tools which are commonly associated with elven culture for those characters that want to lean into that culture - similarly with dwarves, gnomes, and everybody else - but a character could also lean away from that culture. And such a system would make it easier for alternate setting books like Eberron or Wildemount to change which options are 'traditional' for a given species in that world. I think it would make for a better game overall, and a better way for everybody to express their creativity and imagination.
And I equally don't care what you do at your own table. But I very much care when you carry on a campaign to get WOTC to change the rules to something that you prefer. I play in a location that has multiple simultaneous tables running (tables have their own regulars), plus we service drop-ins. So even though every DM's has their own set of house rules, but we are all pretty much on the same page. What is highly disruptive is when someone new walks in the door, and says " I have built this char using Tasha's rules", and then I have to say "No, go sit in the corner and rebuild your char using the 5e PHB rules, then you can join the game". No one likes that, but that is where this is heading.
Buddy, if you run the kind of game where players expect to build a character before even speaking to you, that really sounds like a you problem.
Huh? I am talking about drop-ins showing up with chars they have already created. There is zero issue if they start from scratch. Other than they are typically delayed while they create something, since no table stops to allow players to rebuild a char or build one from scratch. We simply don't have that kind of time available. I am talking about someone saying "I have a char", sits down, I ask, "did you build it using Tasha's", and then sending them off to rebuild it if they have. Guaranteed hurt feelings. I already get that with players showing up with chars made using Volo's, but that is separate thread.
And I equally don't care what you do at your own table. But I very much care when you carry on a campaign to get WOTC to change the rules to something that you prefer. I play in a location that has multiple simultaneous tables running (tables have their own regulars), plus we service drop-ins. So even though every DM's has their own set of house rules, but we are all pretty much on the same page. What is highly disruptive is when someone new walks in the door, and says " I have built this char using Tasha's rules", and then I have to say "No, go sit in the corner and rebuild your char using the 5e PHB rules, then you can join the game". No one likes that, but that is where this is heading.
If all the DMs are on the same page, just specify in your rules for signing up what the restrictions are. There's no reason they have to be the same as AL, they just have to be available to players before they try and sign up.
You let random people with pre-built characters show up to your private games? Or are you an ALDM?
If you’re an ALDM and hate it that much, quit. Then you don’t have to worry about it.
If you let random strangers show up in your games with pre-built characters, then you’re gonna have to deal with whatever the heck WotC publishes no matter what.
If you do what most DMs I know do, and take time to explain your campaign, require PCs built with that campaign concept in mind, and preview PCs to vet them before game night (as I just had to do for tonight’s campaign), then you will have fewer problems.
I allow UA, Homebrew, DMs’ Guild, all kinds of stuff... as long as I can approve it before game night. If they wait until the very last minute to hand in their sheet for approval, they don’t play that night unless everything happens to be very straight forward stuff that I would just have to rubber stamp.
I specifically do not allow Wild Magic Sorcerers (or Barbarians) at my tables. Nosir, not havin’ it. I tell people that ahead of time, they don’t bring me those characters. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
And I equally don't care what you do at your own table. But I very much care when you carry on a campaign to get WOTC to change the rules to something that you prefer. I play in a location that has multiple simultaneous tables running (tables have their own regulars), plus we service drop-ins. So even though every DM's has their own set of house rules, but we are all pretty much on the same page. What is highly disruptive is when someone new walks in the door, and says " I have built this char using Tasha's rules", and then I have to say "No, go sit in the corner and rebuild your char using the 5e PHB rules, then you can join the game". No one likes that, but that is where this is heading.
If all the DMs are on the same page, just specify in your rules for signing up what the restrictions are. There's no reason they have to be the same as AL, they just have to be available to players before they try and sign up.
The DM's (3-5 tables any given day), are all indeed pretty much on the same page. We don't follow AL rules, except for the 5th DM who does run a AL table when there is overflow in the place and the other tables are jammed. (When he is not needed as a DM, he plays at my table). But we as a group have not discussed the new Tasha rules.
So imagine the place say, mid-Dec, or early Jan. Tasha's rules have been out for roughly 4-6 weeks. The place has been rocking, with the existing tables running their games, sometimes with that 5th table, set as AL, sometimes only 3-4 tables (no AL) We have had drop-ins come and go, some who end up staying as regulars. Basically what it is today.
But one or two of the DM's decide they want to use Tasha's. Still not a problem, as long as their players stay at their respective tables. Now, on any given day, the AL DM is sick, but some of his players are there. (This has happened.) Or one of the other DM's is not there, and the other DM's strive to include those players at their table. Imagine the chaos if half the place was using Tasha's and half not.
The simple solution is as I stated earlier: Players rebuild their char as per the DM's table rules. But that is not a happy solution.
I'm really not understanding what Vince and people like him are so upset about. What has been released isn't even close to game breaking.
I know, I know, but Mountain Dwarves get +2 to two stats of their choice. Big freaking deal, they also get armor proficiency which is useless to quite a few classes. And that's all the subrace offers. I would take a +1 to my secondary stat and pretty much any other subrace's bonuses over that for pretty much every single character I can think of.
Actually, since it's ACTUALLY ON TOPIC for a whole "Tasha's Cauldron Announced!" thread:
I actually kinda like the Wild Magic barbarian. The Wild Surge table for that subclass got cleaned up and offers some cool interactions, and the higher-level thing where you can use your reaction to explode in somebody's face seems delightfully flavorful. Just imagine the look on some bugbear's face when the shrieking elven warmaiden he's been trying to bat down, coming at him with a sword in each hand and covered in faerie fire (actual farie fire, not Faerie Fire) literally explodes with chaos magic every time he hits her.
Hobgoblin War Boss: "Stop staring, idiot! Bring her down! hit her again!" Half-charred magic-scarred bugbear: "I don't wanna! Q_Q"
And I equally don't care what you do at your own table. But I very much care when you carry on a campaign to get WOTC to change the rules to something that you prefer. I play in a location that has multiple simultaneous tables running (tables have their own regulars), plus we service drop-ins. So even though every DM's has their own set of house rules, but we are all pretty much on the same page. What is highly disruptive is when someone new walks in the door, and says " I have built this char using Tasha's rules", and then I have to say "No, go sit in the corner and rebuild your char using the 5e PHB rules, then you can join the game". No one likes that, but that is where this is heading.
If all the DMs are on the same page, just specify in your rules for signing up what the restrictions are. There's no reason they have to be the same as AL, they just have to be available to players before they try and sign up.
The DM's (3-5 tables any given day), are all indeed pretty much on the same page. We don't follow AL rules, except for the 5th DM who does run a AL table when there is overflow in the place and the other tables are jammed. (When he is not needed as a DM, he plays at my table). But we as a group have not discussed the new Tasha rules.
So imagine the place say, mid-Dec, or early Jan. Tasha's rules have been out for roughly 4-6 weeks. The place has been rocking, with the existing tables running their games, sometimes with that 5th table, set as AL, sometimes only 3-4 tables (no AL) We have had drop-ins come and go, some who end up staying as regulars. Basically what it is today.
But one or two of the DM's decide they want to use Tasha's. Still not a problem, as long as their players stay at their respective tables. Now, on any given day, the AL DM is sick, but some of his players are there. (This has happened.) Or one of the other DM's is not there, and the other DM's strive to include those players at their table. Imagine the chaos if half the place was using Tasha's and half not.
The simple solution is as I stated earlier: Players rebuild their char as per the DM's table rules. But that is not a happy solution.
That’s going to be the case literally any time WotC publish new rules, as Sposta said. It’s a problem you’re creating for yourself. If not all the DMs in your little league agree on all the rules, that’s the way it’s going to be.
I'm willing to bet somebody a dollar that the community's general hatred of the Wild Magic sorcerer would taper off surprisingly sharply if they just took the Fireball off the Wild Surge list. Every single time I've seen somebody really dig into why they hate the Wild sorcerer, it always ends up in an anecdote concerning a poorly-timed Fireball at exactly the wrong place. Usually not even their game, just something they've seen happen.
I don't care much for Wild Magic sorcerers, but I like that they're in the game as an option. Characters without full control over their abilities are a common story element, a thing many people would like the ability to play with, and for them the Wild Magic sorcerer is a key tool. Kinda the only tool; nothing else has any sort of instability in their features.
The Wild barb intrigues me as an option for a player whose looking to create a character that doesn't care about mastering their magical abilities. They have powerful magic - so what? Powerful magic never stopped a displacer beast from eating their pet rabbit. They don't have the temperament or disposition to learn real control, so instead they learn just enough to keep from blowing themselves up and vent all that power outwards, let it do whatever it feels like so long as it does it to their enemies. That's a concept D&D's never really had any way to express until now, and it's honestly kind of a cool one.
You let random people with pre-built characters show up to your private games? Or are you an ALDM?
If you’re an ALDM and hate it that much, quit. Then you don’t have to worry about it.
If you let random strangers show up in your games with pre-built characters, then you’re gonna have to deal with whatever the heck WotC publishes no matter what.
If you do what most DMs I know do, and take time to explain your campaign, require PCs built with that campaign concept in mind, and preview PCs to vet them before game night (as I just had to do for tonight’s campaign), then you will have fewer problems.
I allow UA, Homebrew, DMs’ Guild, all kinds of stuff... as long as I can approve it before game night. If they wait until the very last minute to hand in their sheet for approval, they don’t play that night unless everything happens to be very straight forward stuff that I would just have to rubber stamp.
I specifically do not allow Wild Magic Sorcerers (or Barbarians) at my tables. Nosir, not havin’ it. I tell people that ahead of time, they don’t bring me those characters. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
In a perfect world, what you describe is reasonable, but that is not how the place works where I DM.
There is an established timeslot, that is advertised. Everyone knows that slot and shows up. My regulars, I talk with via Discord, and know who is going to be there, who will not. We also have a pretty good feel with what DM's will be there, as we have a DM channel as well. But no DM advertises how many of his players will be there on any given day to another DM. Plus, we have zero control over drop-ins, who typically don't arrive early.
Today, I don't know how many times I have had drop-ins/ temp players from other tables that I have had to explain my table rules (27 point buy, anything from XGTE and PHB), then watch that look of annoyance on a player when they go to an empty table to tweak a char they showed up with to fit my table, as I carry on with the game, because we are on the clock. Now visualize what it will be like when I have people showing up with chars built using Tasha's ruleset. It won't be simply tweaking a char. It will be a major re-work.
I'm willing to bet somebody a dollar that the community's general hatred of the Wild Magic sorcerer would taper off surprisingly sharply if they just took the Fireball off the Wild Surge list. Every single time I've seen somebody really dig into why they hate the Wild sorcerer, it always ends up in an anecdote concerning a poorly-timed Fireball at exactly the wrong place. Usually not even their game, just something they've seen happen.
Agreed - of the issues I've read that people have with this subclass, the fact you can Fireball your own party is top of the list. However, it's only a 1/50 chance of happening so it really is a minuscule occurrence, and it brings laughter to my table whenever I've seen it happen.
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Then it sounds like you really need to change your advertisement, Vince. Because asking randos to come to your table with a character that conforms to your nonstandard rules without telling the rando what those nonstandard rules are before he turns up is kind of a dick move.
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Huh? I am talking about drop-ins showing up with chars they have already created. There is zero issue if they start from scratch. Other than they are typically delayed while they create something, since no table stops to allow players to rebuild a char or build one from scratch. We simply don't have that kind of time available. I am talking about someone saying "I have a char", sits down, I ask, "did you build it using Tasha's", and then sending them off to rebuild it if they have. Guaranteed hurt feelings. I already get that with players showing up with chars made using Volo's, but that is separate thread.
If all the DMs are on the same page, just specify in your rules for signing up what the restrictions are. There's no reason they have to be the same as AL, they just have to be available to players before they try and sign up.
Snetterton,
You let random people with pre-built characters show up to your private games? Or are you an ALDM?
If you’re an ALDM and hate it that much, quit. Then you don’t have to worry about it.
If you let random strangers show up in your games with pre-built characters, then you’re gonna have to deal with whatever the heck WotC publishes no matter what.
If you do what most DMs I know do, and take time to explain your campaign, require PCs built with that campaign concept in mind, and preview PCs to vet them before game night (as I just had to do for tonight’s campaign), then you will have fewer problems.
I allow UA, Homebrew, DMs’ Guild, all kinds of stuff... as long as I can approve it before game night. If they wait until the very last minute to hand in their sheet for approval, they don’t play that night unless everything happens to be very straight forward stuff that I would just have to rubber stamp.
I specifically do not allow Wild Magic Sorcerers (or Barbarians) at my tables. Nosir, not havin’ it. I tell people that ahead of time, they don’t bring me those characters. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope that was helpful.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Moderately off topic, but hopefully brief. And this whole thread wobbles off topic on the regular anyways so neyh.
...why no barbarians, Sposta? i know why you don't allow spellcasty psykers, but barbarians seems a weird ban. Curious as to the reasoning for it?
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm assuming Sposta's referring specifically to the Wild Magic barbarian that's coming out in Tasha's, but I could be wrong.
This^^^
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
.
..
...derp. Reading comp fail for the day. Carry on.
Please do not contact or message me.
The DM's (3-5 tables any given day), are all indeed pretty much on the same page. We don't follow AL rules, except for the 5th DM who does run a AL table when there is overflow in the place and the other tables are jammed. (When he is not needed as a DM, he plays at my table). But we as a group have not discussed the new Tasha rules.
So imagine the place say, mid-Dec, or early Jan. Tasha's rules have been out for roughly 4-6 weeks. The place has been rocking, with the existing tables running their games, sometimes with that 5th table, set as AL, sometimes only 3-4 tables (no AL) We have had drop-ins come and go, some who end up staying as regulars. Basically what it is today.
But one or two of the DM's decide they want to use Tasha's. Still not a problem, as long as their players stay at their respective tables. Now, on any given day, the AL DM is sick, but some of his players are there. (This has happened.) Or one of the other DM's is not there, and the other DM's strive to include those players at their table. Imagine the chaos if half the place was using Tasha's and half not.
The simple solution is as I stated earlier: Players rebuild their char as per the DM's table rules. But that is not a happy solution.
The first group I ever played with banned Tieflings and Warlocks. Strangely, Warlock is now one of my favorite classes.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I'm really not understanding what Vince and people like him are so upset about. What has been released isn't even close to game breaking.
I know, I know, but Mountain Dwarves get +2 to two stats of their choice. Big freaking deal, they also get armor proficiency which is useless to quite a few classes. And that's all the subrace offers. I would take a +1 to my secondary stat and pretty much any other subrace's bonuses over that for pretty much every single character I can think of.
The first group I ever played with banned Tieflings and Warlocks. Strangely, Warlock is now one of my favorite classes.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Actually, since it's ACTUALLY ON TOPIC for a whole "Tasha's Cauldron Announced!" thread:
I actually kinda like the Wild Magic barbarian. The Wild Surge table for that subclass got cleaned up and offers some cool interactions, and the higher-level thing where you can use your reaction to explode in somebody's face seems delightfully flavorful. Just imagine the look on some bugbear's face when the shrieking elven warmaiden he's been trying to bat down, coming at him with a sword in each hand and covered in faerie fire (actual farie fire, not Faerie Fire) literally explodes with chaos magic every time he hits her.
Hobgoblin War Boss: "Stop staring, idiot! Bring her down! hit her again!"
Half-charred magic-scarred bugbear: "I don't wanna! Q_Q"
Please do not contact or message me.
The Wild Magic barbarian looks like a much better interpretation of Wild Magic than the Sorcerer.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
That’s going to be the case literally any time WotC publish new rules, as Sposta said. It’s a problem you’re creating for yourself. If not all the DMs in your little league agree on all the rules, that’s the way it’s going to be.
I will admit, the fact that this one doesn't cast fireball on itself is much more palatable to me.
Still, you might want to Fireball yourself as the barbarian. Just as long as your far away from the party and close to some enemies.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I'm willing to bet somebody a dollar that the community's general hatred of the Wild Magic sorcerer would taper off surprisingly sharply if they just took the Fireball off the Wild Surge list. Every single time I've seen somebody really dig into why they hate the Wild sorcerer, it always ends up in an anecdote concerning a poorly-timed Fireball at exactly the wrong place. Usually not even their game, just something they've seen happen.
I don't care much for Wild Magic sorcerers, but I like that they're in the game as an option. Characters without full control over their abilities are a common story element, a thing many people would like the ability to play with, and for them the Wild Magic sorcerer is a key tool. Kinda the only tool; nothing else has any sort of instability in their features.
The Wild barb intrigues me as an option for a player whose looking to create a character that doesn't care about mastering their magical abilities. They have powerful magic - so what? Powerful magic never stopped a displacer beast from eating their pet rabbit. They don't have the temperament or disposition to learn real control, so instead they learn just enough to keep from blowing themselves up and vent all that power outwards, let it do whatever it feels like so long as it does it to their enemies. That's a concept D&D's never really had any way to express until now, and it's honestly kind of a cool one.
Please do not contact or message me.
In a perfect world, what you describe is reasonable, but that is not how the place works where I DM.
There is an established timeslot, that is advertised. Everyone knows that slot and shows up. My regulars, I talk with via Discord, and know who is going to be there, who will not. We also have a pretty good feel with what DM's will be there, as we have a DM channel as well. But no DM advertises how many of his players will be there on any given day to another DM. Plus, we have zero control over drop-ins, who typically don't arrive early.
Today, I don't know how many times I have had drop-ins/ temp players from other tables that I have had to explain my table rules (27 point buy, anything from XGTE and PHB), then watch that look of annoyance on a player when they go to an empty table to tweak a char they showed up with to fit my table, as I carry on with the game, because we are on the clock. Now visualize what it will be like when I have people showing up with chars built using Tasha's ruleset. It won't be simply tweaking a char. It will be a major re-work.
Agreed - of the issues I've read that people have with this subclass, the fact you can Fireball your own party is top of the list. However, it's only a 1/50 chance of happening so it really is a minuscule occurrence, and it brings laughter to my table whenever I've seen it happen.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Then it sounds like you really need to change your advertisement, Vince. Because asking randos to come to your table with a character that conforms to your nonstandard rules without telling the rando what those nonstandard rules are before he turns up is kind of a dick move.
Please do not contact or message me.