Honestly, Third? It's a little hard to conceive of a design space for that concept that isn't already covered by Cleric. Clerics get almost all the benefits of a half-caster anyways, they really are stupid good. If I sat down and really hammered on it for a while I might be able to grind something out, but that's gonna be the hardest push, methinks.
Yeah. I was thinking, and there's not much that isn't already covered by the Cleric and Paladin for divine character concepts. Maybe some sort of Seer or Prophet, but I am not really sure. It's just the OCD part of my brain that likes complete sets.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The Shaman is a new class in Dungeons and Dragons, Fifth Edition. Bonding to a powerful spiritual force of nature, the shaman draws on the primal magic of its bonded guide not only to cast spells, but to produce supernatural effects and powers never before seen in Fifth Edition. Unlike other classes, the Shaman is designed to be extremely customizable and versatile. No two Shamans are ever quite the same. Let's discuss the features of this exciting new class.
The shaman has a d10 hit die, proficiency in medium armor, shields and martial weapons, and the herbalism kit. Notably, the shaman base class does not have proficiency in any saving throws.
Beginning at first level, the shaman selects its Spirit Bond from the list of available such Bonds. A shaman's Spirit Bond not only grants them additional class features periodically as they level up, but the shaman's choice of Spirit Bond influences many of their base class features, as well. A shaman's choice of Spirit Bond determines their Spirit Ability, their Spirit Mantle, and their Spirit Call.
Unlike conventional Fifth Edition classes, shamans do not have a single fixed ability or pair of abilities that all shamans prefer to improve. Instead, each spirit a shaman can bond to is associated with a specific ability. The Spirit of Storm, for example, is associated with Charisma and treats Charisma as its Spirit Ability, while the Spirit of Winter is associated with Wisdom and treats Wisdom as its Spirit Ability. A shaman uses its Spirit Ability when casting spells, as well as whenever one of its class features calls for the shaman's Spirit modifier. Each spirit also grants proficiency in saving throws made using its Spirit modifier and one additional saving throw - but only when the shaman takes this class at first level. A character multiclassing into shaman does not gain additional saving throw proficiencies. What This Actually Means: a shaman's SUBCLASS - not the base class itself - determines what the shaman's primary ability modifier is. This is intended to further influence the base class chassis, since anything that calls for your 'Spirit Modifier' is determined by which spirit bond you chose. This is something that, were I taking the several weeks required to design the class fully, would be further reflected throughout the shaman class. Simply being a shaman gives you almost nothing - EVERYTHING about your abilities is determined by which kind of shaman you are.
At second level, a shaman's communion with their spirit has deepened enough to grant them their Spirit Mantle - a shroud of power which grants the shaman both passive effects and an active ability. Each spirit provides a very different Spirit Mantle, and as the shaman grows in power, the effects granted by their Spirit Mantle also grow in strength. What This Actually Means: the Spirit Mantle is what decides the direction of the shaman and whether they're a more martially focused, weapon-centric character or a more casty-blasty type. Martial-focused spirits passively augment the shaman's body in some manner useful for combat and provide a ribbon active ability; blasty spirits grant the shaman ribbon passive abilities and an active means of dealing magical damage to a target.
At third level, the shaman creates their first Fetish - a powerful spiritual focus that grants its bearer supernatural boons. The shaman may choose a fetish for which they meet the prerequisite from the (fictive and imaginary) list below. Fetishes do not grant spells or allow the shaman to harm their enemies, as do a warlock's Eldritch Invocations, but a shaman can grant a fetish to a willing creature, transferring that fetish's boon to the creature until the shaman reclaims the fetish. What This Actually Means: take the Eldritch Invocations everybody loves from warlocks. Take the Arcane Infusions everybody loves from artificers. Smash them together and blend thoroughly, and you get shaman Fetishes. A fetish provides a boon to the character holding the fetish, which is either the shaman or someone the shaman specifically picks. The shaman has to actively give you the fetish and bind it to you - enemies can't pickpocket a shaman's Fetishes. The boons a Fetish offers are exclusively defensive or utilitarian in nature - the tradeoff for being able to hand out your Primal Invocations is that Primal Invocations don't hurt things.
At fifth level, each Spirit Bond either offers the Extra Attack ability, for spirits more focused towards physical battle and defeating their enemies through martial force, or a means of augmenting their magical combat. Many spirits offer a Spirit Mantle ability that allows them to harm their enemies; those spirits will often gain a Primal Fury ability that allows them to increase the damage and reliability of that power.
At sixth level, the shaman has gained enough strength to briefly manifest their spirit in the Material Plane, in the form of a Spirit Call. Each spirit offers two ways to use a Spirit Call - the shaman can manifest the spirit directly, summoning their spirit into the world to aid them, or the shaman can pull the spirit's power more fully into their own body and act for a brief few moments as a direct avatar of their spirit. What This Actually Means: shamans gain the ability to Spirit Call once per long rest, and can choose to either create an entity in the world that acts in concert with the shaman or empower themselves with a greater measure of their spirit's abilities. The summoned spirit is generally more destructive, unless the shaman has bonded to a spirit that doesn't like hurting things, while the avatar state (no, not THAT 'Avatar State') either improved spellcasting or a useful suite of abilities. Much like all the newer summoning stuff, the conjured spirit acts immediately after the shaman in the turn order, though it doesn't burn the shaman's bonus action to command. The two are already linked so deeply they can read each other's minds for free.
...and more I ain't building out the whole damn class. If this isn't enough to give you an idea of how this class would generally play, there ain't a damn thing I can do to convince ya.
Sounds interesting, it has potential, I think letting the saving throws shift based on choice could be pretty unique.
IMHO, the reason it's highly unlikely for new classes to be made are because it's difficult to make them distinct from existing ones in a Role-Play (rather than mechanics) perspective.
What is the lore behind Psionics? Please explain it to me.
Psionic characters are as tightly entangled with the old Dark Sun setting as artificers were with Eberron. A lot of people really liked Dark Sun, which turned standard D&D on its head similarly to Eberron, if in a very different way. it was a post-apocalypse setting where High Magic (i.e. everything regular D&D characters do) was actively poisonous to the world and psychic abilities were the dominant form of supernatural power. Psychic abilities carry a fundamentally different tone than 'Magic' does; for many (though not all) players, Psionics is a different from Magic as Magic is from Martial Combat. It's why a lot of us are so pissed Wizards decided to skip differentiating psychic abilities from regular-ass D&D High Magic - those two things are not and have never been the same thing.
IMHO, the reason it's highly unlikely for new classes to be made are because it's difficult to make them distinct from existing ones in a Role-Play (rather than mechanics) perspective.
What is the lore behind Psionics? Please explain it to me.
Please explain to me why classes are supposed to distinguish between different types of roleplay? If anything, of the 3 core parts of your character (species, background, class), your class is the least important part when it comes to how you roleplay your character. What species/race determines nature and some nurture aspects of your character's personality, background determines how you spent the majority of your adult life before adventuring, and your class is just this one new thing you've started doing.
I could play a moon druid who was a hardened goblin soldier, whose fellow soldiers died in battle with him, so he has attachment problems, as well as an inferiority complex due to his place in goblinoid society. Most of this character's personality comes from background and race, instead of class. The ability to cast spells and turn into animals is just a small part of how they roleplay.
How about a tiefling devotion paladin, who was an urchin. They grew up on the streets, saw all the violence and crime there, and had to join a paladin order in order to gain renown. She saw how hard it was to live poor in the city she grew up in, so she rose through the ranks of the order so that she could help other people like her. For this character, class is a little bit more important to who they are, but who they were and what race they are is much more important to how they roleplay than their class.
So, please answer this, why do classes need to roleplay differently, or why are they not allowed to exist if they're not x amount different when it comes to roleplay? That goblin druid could instead be a warlock, and still have mostly the same personality. The tiefling paladin could instead be a war domain cleric or battlemaster fighter, and be practically the same.
How you play your class mechanically is more important than how it plays with roleplay potential. If your warlock isn't interesting enough for roleplay possibilities, the problem isn't in the class, you're not being creative enough.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Psionic characters are as tightly entangled with the old Dark Sun setting as artificers were with Eberron. A lot of people really liked Dark Sun, which turned standard D&D on its head similarly to Eberron, if in a very different way. it was a post-apocalypse setting where High Magic (i.e. everything regular D&D characters do) was actively poisonous to the world and psychic abilities were the dominant form of supernatural power. Psychic abilities carry a fundamentally different tone than 'Magic' does; for many (though not all) players, Psionics is a different from Magic as Magic is from Martial Combat. It's why a lot of us are so pissed Wizards decided to skip differentiating psychic abilities from regular-ass D&D High Magic - those two things are not and have never been the same thing.
IMHO, the reason it's highly unlikely for new classes to be made are because it's difficult to make them distinct from existing ones in a Role-Play (rather than mechanics) perspective.
What is the lore behind Psionics? Please explain it to me.
Interesting. I was surprised the first time I discovered the Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard distinction. Then, I realized it's basically 3 sources of magic. Warlock from patron deals, Wizard from studies, Sorcerer for bloodlines and fateful encounters. So when I saw the discussion about Psionics, I was taken aback by the hostile zeal I've read.
Psionics is a separate source of "magic" or supernatural power, and is as separate from the Wizard as the Warlock is.
Also, what you just experienced wasn't "hostile zeal," it was arguing against your point. That's how debates work, in case you didn't know.
WAAAYYYY bigger of a difference between Psionics and Spellcasting than between Wizards and Warlocks. Psionics May still be a form of “magic” in the loosest interpretation, but like Yurei said, it’s as different from Spellcasting as spells are from sword & board.
The Shaman is a new class in Dungeons and Dragons, Fifth Edition. Bonding to a powerful spiritual force of nature, the shaman draws on the primal magic of its bonded guide not only to cast spells, but to produce supernatural effects and powers never before seen in Fifth Edition. Unlike other classes, the Shaman is designed to be extremely customizable and versatile. No two Shamans are ever quite the same. Let's discuss the features of this exciting new class.
The shaman has a d10 hit die, proficiency in medium armor, shields and martial weapons, and the herbalism kit. Notably, the shaman base class does not have proficiency in any saving throws.
Beginning at first level, the shaman selects its Spirit Bond from the list of available such Bonds. A shaman's Spirit Bond not only grants them additional class features periodically as they level up, but the shaman's choice of Spirit Bond influences many of their base class features, as well. A shaman's choice of Spirit Bond determines their Spirit Ability, their Spirit Mantle, and their Spirit Call.
Unlike conventional Fifth Edition classes, shamans do not have a single fixed ability or pair of abilities that all shamans prefer to improve. Instead, each spirit a shaman can bond to is associated with a specific ability. The Spirit of Storm, for example, is associated with Charisma and treats Charisma as its Spirit Ability, while the Spirit of Winter is associated with Wisdom and treats Wisdom as its Spirit Ability. A shaman uses its Spirit Ability when casting spells, as well as whenever one of its class features calls for the shaman's Spirit modifier. Each spirit also grants proficiency in saving throws made using its Spirit modifier and one additional saving throw - but only when the shaman takes this class at first level. A character multiclassing into shaman does not gain additional saving throw proficiencies. What This Actually Means: a shaman's SUBCLASS - not the base class itself - determines what the shaman's primary ability modifier is. This is intended to further influence the base class chassis, since anything that calls for your 'Spirit Modifier' is determined by which spirit bond you chose. This is something that, were I taking the several weeks required to design the class fully, would be further reflected throughout the shaman class. Simply being a shaman gives you almost nothing - EVERYTHING about your abilities is determined by which kind of shaman you are.
At second level, a shaman's communion with their spirit has deepened enough to grant them their Spirit Mantle - a shroud of power which grants the shaman both passive effects and an active ability. Each spirit provides a very different Spirit Mantle, and as the shaman grows in power, the effects granted by their Spirit Mantle also grow in strength. What This Actually Means: the Spirit Mantle is what decides the direction of the shaman and whether they're a more martially focused, weapon-centric character or a more casty-blasty type. Martial-focused spirits passively augment the shaman's body in some manner useful for combat and provide a ribbon active ability; blasty spirits grant the shaman ribbon passive abilities and an active means of dealing magical damage to a target.
At third level, the shaman creates their first Fetish - a powerful spiritual focus that grants its bearer supernatural boons. The shaman may choose a fetish for which they meet the prerequisite from the (fictive and imaginary) list below. Fetishes do not grant spells or allow the shaman to harm their enemies, as do a warlock's Eldritch Invocations, but a shaman can grant a fetish to a willing creature, transferring that fetish's boon to the creature until the shaman reclaims the fetish. What This Actually Means: take the Eldritch Invocations everybody loves from warlocks. Take the Arcane Infusions everybody loves from artificers. Smash them together and blend thoroughly, and you get shaman Fetishes. A fetish provides a boon to the character holding the fetish, which is either the shaman or someone the shaman specifically picks. The shaman has to actively give you the fetish and bind it to you - enemies can't pickpocket a shaman's Fetishes. The boons a Fetish offers are exclusively defensive or utilitarian in nature - the tradeoff for being able to hand out your Primal Invocations is that Primal Invocations don't hurt things.
At fifth level, each Spirit Bond either offers the Extra Attack ability, for spirits more focused towards physical battle and defeating their enemies through martial force, or a means of augmenting their magical combat. Many spirits offer a Spirit Mantle ability that allows them to harm their enemies; those spirits will often gain a Primal Fury ability that allows them to increase the damage and reliability of that power.
At sixth level, the shaman has gained enough strength to briefly manifest their spirit in the Material Plane, in the form of a Spirit Call. Each spirit offers two ways to use a Spirit Call - the shaman can manifest the spirit directly, summoning their spirit into the world to aid them, or the shaman can pull the spirit's power more fully into their own body and act for a brief few moments as a direct avatar of their spirit. What This Actually Means: shamans gain the ability to Spirit Call once per long rest, and can choose to either create an entity in the world that acts in concert with the shaman or empower themselves with a greater measure of their spirit's abilities. The summoned spirit is generally more destructive, unless the shaman has bonded to a spirit that doesn't like hurting things, while the avatar state (no, not THAT 'Avatar State') either improved spellcasting or a useful suite of abilities. Much like all the newer summoning stuff, the conjured spirit acts immediately after the shaman in the turn order, though it doesn't burn the shaman's bonus action to command. The two are already linked so deeply they can read each other's minds for free.
...and more I ain't building out the whole damn class. If this isn't enough to give you an idea of how this class would generally play, there ain't a damn thing I can do to convince ya.
*Cheers*
I had kinda started spitballing a similar power distribution for a couple of class ideas I have rattling around, that the subclass choice should be the primary driver of the class abilities. I'm gonna spend some time working on this. The bending concept for sure, but I'd also like to take a stab at the minion summoning, too.
The hardest part of a spellcasting class, though, will always be the spell list. From the get-go you have to decide whether it's going to be a new list, or if it's going to use an existing list. If you decide it's going to be new, you have to actually make it before you can even consider balancing. If you use an existing, you have to decide whether you're going to use a class feature expanding it with things it may be missing.
I imagine the Shaman could probably get by on the Druid list as a base, then each Spirit would give an expanded spell list of spells thematic to the Spirit, but absent from the Druid list. Do Druids get Augury? If not, that would need to be on most, if not all, of the Spirit expanded lists...
Psionics is a separate source of "magic" or supernatural power, and is as separate from the Wizard as the Warlock is.
Also, what you just experienced wasn't "hostile zeal," it was arguing against your point. That's how debates work, in case you didn't know.
WAAAYYYY bigger of a difference between Psionics and Spellcasting than between Wizards and Warlocks. Psionics May still be a form of “magic” in the loosest interpretation, but like Yurei said, it’s as different from Spellcasting as spells are from sword & board.
Yeah, sorry. Should've clarified. I meant the origin of their abilities is as different from the Wizard's origin of magic and the Warlock's origin of magic. The mechanics are/(should) definitely way more different from Wizards than Warlocks to Wizards.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
For the purposes of gathering info, what are the spells in 5e which are not supposed to be spells? Give us a list if you want.
Since this is referencing Psionics, the idea is that spells such as Telekinesis have long been held up as the reason there's no need for a Psionics class. "Just make a Wizard or Sorcerer and pick all the psychic spells!" The thing is, though, that's not how actual psychic powers are supposed to work. The fear is that WotC will attach itself to that idea and just not do real Psionics.
What a lot of people envision for the Psionic class, though, is for effects like the spell, but always-on or nearly always-on. They should start weaker, but then grow as the character adds more levels in the class. You're not Gandalf casting a spell to read someone's mind, you're Professor X from X-men -- you just reach out and read their mind. It's an innate ability that comes from the person, not from careful or instinctual manipulations of The Weave.
Honest question. How does Psionic's source of power differ from that of a (admittedly general) Sorcerer's bloodline/fateful encounter?
Edit: So Psionic abilities are supposed to be closer to (nearly) infinite duration class features than actual spells. So the limit would have to be somewhere else.
Psionic characters are as tightly entangled with the old Dark Sun setting as artificers were with Eberron.
Eh, it's way older than that, it dates all the way back to AD&D1e (where it was super broken because it wasn't particularly tied to your level so a first level PC who got lucky could take out high level stuff -- until he got his brain eaten by an astral platypus or something). It's most strongly tied to Illithids (and associates, such as Githyanki and Githzerai).
While I do not think more classes are absolutely needed, I would still like to see additional classes. Subclasses are pretty exciting to see, but completely new classes would be even more exciting in my opinion. I just like having more options.
Yeah. I was thinking, and there's not much that isn't already covered by the Cleric and Paladin for divine character concepts. Maybe some sort of Seer or Prophet, but I am not really sure. It's just the OCD part of my brain that likes complete sets.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sounds interesting, it has potential, I think letting the saving throws shift based on choice could be pretty unique.
IMHO, the reason it's highly unlikely for new classes to be made are because it's difficult to make them distinct from existing ones in a Role-Play (rather than mechanics) perspective.
What is the lore behind Psionics? Please explain it to me.
Loaded question if ever there was one, Jayvee.
Psionic characters are as tightly entangled with the old Dark Sun setting as artificers were with Eberron. A lot of people really liked Dark Sun, which turned standard D&D on its head similarly to Eberron, if in a very different way. it was a post-apocalypse setting where High Magic (i.e. everything regular D&D characters do) was actively poisonous to the world and psychic abilities were the dominant form of supernatural power. Psychic abilities carry a fundamentally different tone than 'Magic' does; for many (though not all) players, Psionics is a different from Magic as Magic is from Martial Combat. It's why a lot of us are so pissed Wizards decided to skip differentiating psychic abilities from regular-ass D&D High Magic - those two things are not and have never been the same thing.
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Please explain to me why classes are supposed to distinguish between different types of roleplay? If anything, of the 3 core parts of your character (species, background, class), your class is the least important part when it comes to how you roleplay your character. What species/race determines nature and some nurture aspects of your character's personality, background determines how you spent the majority of your adult life before adventuring, and your class is just this one new thing you've started doing.
I could play a moon druid who was a hardened goblin soldier, whose fellow soldiers died in battle with him, so he has attachment problems, as well as an inferiority complex due to his place in goblinoid society. Most of this character's personality comes from background and race, instead of class. The ability to cast spells and turn into animals is just a small part of how they roleplay.
How about a tiefling devotion paladin, who was an urchin. They grew up on the streets, saw all the violence and crime there, and had to join a paladin order in order to gain renown. She saw how hard it was to live poor in the city she grew up in, so she rose through the ranks of the order so that she could help other people like her. For this character, class is a little bit more important to who they are, but who they were and what race they are is much more important to how they roleplay than their class.
So, please answer this, why do classes need to roleplay differently, or why are they not allowed to exist if they're not x amount different when it comes to roleplay? That goblin druid could instead be a warlock, and still have mostly the same personality. The tiefling paladin could instead be a war domain cleric or battlemaster fighter, and be practically the same.
How you play your class mechanically is more important than how it plays with roleplay potential. If your warlock isn't interesting enough for roleplay possibilities, the problem isn't in the class, you're not being creative enough.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Interesting. I was surprised the first time I discovered the Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard distinction. Then, I realized it's basically 3 sources of magic. Warlock from patron deals, Wizard from studies, Sorcerer for bloodlines and fateful encounters. So when I saw the discussion about Psionics, I was taken aback by the hostile zeal I've read.
Psionics is a separate source of "magic" or supernatural power, and is as separate from the Wizard as the Warlock is.
Also, what you just experienced wasn't "hostile zeal," it was arguing against your point. That's how debates work, in case you didn't know.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
WAAAYYYY bigger of a difference between Psionics and Spellcasting than between Wizards and Warlocks. Psionics May still be a form of “magic” in the loosest interpretation, but like Yurei said, it’s as different from Spellcasting as spells are from sword & board.
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*Cheers*
I had kinda started spitballing a similar power distribution for a couple of class ideas I have rattling around, that the subclass choice should be the primary driver of the class abilities. I'm gonna spend some time working on this. The bending concept for sure, but I'd also like to take a stab at the minion summoning, too.
The hardest part of a spellcasting class, though, will always be the spell list. From the get-go you have to decide whether it's going to be a new list, or if it's going to use an existing list. If you decide it's going to be new, you have to actually make it before you can even consider balancing. If you use an existing, you have to decide whether you're going to use a class feature expanding it with things it may be missing.
I imagine the Shaman could probably get by on the Druid list as a base, then each Spirit would give an expanded spell list of spells thematic to the Spirit, but absent from the Druid list. Do Druids get Augury? If not, that would need to be on most, if not all, of the Spirit expanded lists...
For the purposes of gathering info, what are the spells in 5e which are not supposed to be spells? Give us a list if you want.
Also, for the record Third_Sundering, the "hostile zeal" isn't specifically to referring to your argument.
Yeah, sorry. Should've clarified. I meant the origin of their abilities is as different from the Wizard's origin of magic and the Warlock's origin of magic. The mechanics are/(should) definitely way more different from Wizards than Warlocks to Wizards.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Since this is referencing Psionics, the idea is that spells such as Telekinesis have long been held up as the reason there's no need for a Psionics class. "Just make a Wizard or Sorcerer and pick all the psychic spells!" The thing is, though, that's not how actual psychic powers are supposed to work. The fear is that WotC will attach itself to that idea and just not do real Psionics.
What a lot of people envision for the Psionic class, though, is for effects like the spell, but always-on or nearly always-on. They should start weaker, but then grow as the character adds more levels in the class. You're not Gandalf casting a spell to read someone's mind, you're Professor X from X-men -- you just reach out and read their mind. It's an innate ability that comes from the person, not from careful or instinctual manipulations of The Weave.
Honest question. How does Psionic's source of power differ from that of a (admittedly general) Sorcerer's bloodline/fateful encounter?
Edit: So Psionic abilities are supposed to be closer to (nearly) infinite duration class features than actual spells. So the limit would have to be somewhere else.
It was a reference to Yurei, I'm assuming. That wasn't hostile zeal either.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I was referring to a user threatening to ban a feature in TCE from their table and another user threatening to ban the former's preferred home-brew.
It was probably my “hostile zeal” being referred to in that statement.
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Eh, it's way older than that, it dates all the way back to AD&D1e (where it was super broken because it wasn't particularly tied to your level so a first level PC who got lucky could take out high level stuff -- until he got his brain eaten by an astral platypus or something). It's most strongly tied to Illithids (and associates, such as Githyanki and Githzerai).
While I do not think more classes are absolutely needed, I would still like to see additional classes. Subclasses are pretty exciting to see, but completely new classes would be even more exciting in my opinion. I just like having more options.
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I now have additional questions...
Technically a though eater. It attacks psionic characters from the astral plane, which is sort of a problem if you can't go astral. http://oldschoolpsionics.blogspot.com/2011/04/t-is-for-thought-eater-to-z-psionic.html