I know I’m a bit late to this party, but I would also vote either Wis or Int. Personally I prefer Wis.
By making it Wis, then you can keep the Saves as Wis and Cha because then they at lest get one storm save in Wis, and Cha fits so they can keep that too.
And whatever you do, do not use “Wicca” or “Wiccan” anywhere within a mile of this class. Wicca is an IRL religion. You don’t want to offend anyone.
Thanks. I may change it from Int to something else if there are further problems with Int, but there currently doesn't seem to be a huge problem with the current spellcasting ability. I can change the Charisma saving throw to Con or Wisdom if both Int and Cha are too uncommon of a saving throw type.
I was not going to mention Wicca or Wiccan anywhere in this class because of that exact reason.
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Are you looking to make a Wiccan Witch like Juniper Mackenzie, or Wicked Witch of the West, or Yzma, or ...?
Yes.
Which is why the constant attempts to define exactly what a Witch is are distracting from the actual conversation, which is "should there be new classes in D&D 5e? is there design space left unfulfilled? Are there styles of play the game does not support?"
The answers to those questions are "Yes", "oh hell yes", and "oh dear GOD yes".
A double dozen sharply opinionated players in one thread on a third-party service can't come to universal agreement on what classes, design spaces, and playstyles aren't supported? What a shock. Color me amazed. I never woulda guessed. But here's the thing, for me at least. if the demand for new ways to play - new classes, new rules, new gear, new spells and feats, new everything - were as anemic and nonexistant as Kotath, BigLizard, Templar, and the rest keep saying?
Why are there many hundreds of people who can make a comfortable professional living selling that shit on DM's Guild?
So everyone just wants to sit around and gripe that the class they see in their mind is not available to choose/play but could be made to work with 'Role Play'
What happens if there is a Witch class but a few months later they are not happy with it. They wanted a Witch that summons demons not one that stands around a cauldron brewing potions and uses ritual magic. What then? You can't please everyone.
That’s what subclasses are for. Once that base “witch” chassis has been created those various different concepts can then be bolted on using subclasses.
You don’t bolt a class onto another class as a subclass, you build a new generic chassis and then get different subclasses as more specific concepts to bolt onto that. Much like if you don’t want any to play a Thief Rogue one can make an Assassin, or Scout, or.... But that’s only because the Rogue Chassis has been provided.
So a Demon Summoning Witch, or a Cauldron Brewing Witch, or a Hexes and Curses Witch, or White Witch, etc can be bolted onto that base Witch chassis, but only if that chassis exists. Making a “Witch Subclass” of Cleric could at best cover only so much.
Think of a class as a skeleton and a subclass as a meat suit. Trying to use another skeleton as a meat suit just doesn’t.... anything. It doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t function, it doesn’t work....
What you end up with is a mishmash of great ideas that don’t work together and don’t fit like the Bladesinger. If there were a “Magus” class as a skeleton, the Bladesinger would have been a great meat suit for it, but not the Wiz and clearly not the Fighter since Eldritch Knights exist, and obviously not the Paladin either since 70% of their core class features would be a worse fit than the Wizard is.
Are you looking to make a Wiccan Witch like Juniper Mackenzie, or Wicked Witch of the West, or Yzma, or ...?
Yes.
Which is why the constant attempts to define exactly what a Witch is are distracting from the actual conversation, which is "should there be new classes in D&D 5e? is there design space left unfulfilled? Are there styles of play the game does not support?"
The answers to those questions are "Yes", "oh hell yes", and "oh dear GOD yes".
A double dozen sharply opinionated players in one thread on a third-party service can't come to universal agreement on what classes, design spaces, and playstyles aren't supported? What a shock. Color me amazed. I never woulda guessed. But here's the thing, for me at least. if the demand for new ways to play - new classes, new rules, new gear, new spells and feats, new everything - were as anemic and nonexistant as Kotath, BigLizard, Templar, and the rest keep saying?
Why are there many hundreds of people who can make a comfortable professional living selling that shit on DM's Guild?
Again please post or quote my comment where I said anything of the sort.
That’s what subclasses are for. Once that base “witch” chassis has been created those various different concepts can then be bolted on using subclasses.
Nope. The concept of a 'witch' isn't consistent enough to fit within a single class.
You could argue neither is the concept of ranger, or paladin, or warlock.
Yet they still have their own class. Ranger especially has a huge amount of disagreement with what actually is a ranger.
We ended up with two rangers. The class, which is a magic nature warrior half caster, and a subclass scout for rogue, which is a martial, sneaky outdoors type ranger.
I think Matt Colville said it best that there are far too many people playing D&D that want it to be something its not and they should be playing a different game rather then trying to force this one to their will. He is right about that.
Weren't you criticising 5e for that very thing before? Being "too narrow"?
So which is it? Is it a user error ie. too high expectations and too long wish-lists of what D&D should look like or design problem ie. not being able to fit those expectations?
Okay, the Witch got mixed reactions, from "JUST FREAKING MAKE IT A WARLOCK OR CLERIC SUBCLASS" to "Cool, change x, give more, that's good."
The name will now be changed to Occultist, to avoid any possible offense. There will be a subclass added called "White Magic" that allows for healing and blessings and stuff like that.
To address the people saying that the Summoning Spells should be added, I agree. I'm just waiting until TCoE is released for them to be added to the spell list.
I will currently keep their spellcasting ability as Intelligence, but that is not completely set in stone. They will get proficiencies with Con and Int saving throws, probably.
The grimoire. This is meant to be a witch's ritual book. It is not their spellbook, they have no equivalent of the wizard's spellbook. It is halfway between the wizard's spellbook and the warlock's tome pact. I personally like the flavor of it, but I may or may not keep it if people don't think it fits. They do not prepare spells out of it, instead they put the rituals into it, so they don't have to prepare them.
Magic Jinx. I may change this, but for the start I just wanted a simple ability. I may change it to scale with proficiency bonus, or something like that. I wanted 6 simple jinxes that would allow minor debuffs, and these currently are filling that role. I'm open to suggestions with these.
Coven Magic. This is mostly supposed to be a unique party support feature. I'm going to keep it as being available to all spellcasters, most likely, just so it is more useful. I can change certain aspects of it. I also wanted to add the feature of getting extra spell slots when using this Ritual, but I wasn't sure how to properly execute that. I'm open to suggestions for this.
Recycle Spell. I know this is a powerful ability, it is supposed to. You are supposed to be a master of manipulating your spells, taking advantage of them even when they fail. This is similar to a Divination Wizard's ability to regain lower level spell slots when casting divination spells. I may change it a bit if it's overpowered, and this does not get rid of the risk of casting spells. For instance, if a creature succeeds on the saving throw against Blight, they normally would take half damage. If the Occultist instead wants to take their chances on a later turn, they can make the spell do no damage, and regain a 3rd level spell slot or lower.
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That’s what subclasses are for. Once that base “witch” chassis has been created those various different concepts can then be bolted on using subclasses.
Nope. The concept of a 'witch' isn't consistent enough to fit within a single class.
Can you specify why, please? Anything specific about my Witch class (now named Occultist) that isn't "consistent" enough for you with a folklore witch? The subclasses will solidify where they harness their power from, while the base class is meant to be open. That's how classes and subclasses work. The Fighter is a general warrior class, the subclasses determine how they fight.
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There should be some fuzz in a good base class. The fuzz is where a subclass is SUPPOSED to come in - sharpen up the image and dial in on a specific variation of the base class. Certain classes in D&D - this is the part where I stare very harshly at the paladin - have forgotten that principle and put too much focus on the base class. The base class is too sharply defined and has no flex or give, which makes it unsuitable for any sort of "reflavor" attempts. A good base class is one that naturally prompts the question "Okay, what kind of [X]" when someone says "I'm an [X]".
Wrapped in a dark, shadowy cloak that are an emblem of his dark power, a shadar-kai steps forward out of the alleyway. Her right hand fiddles with a crystal ball covered in arcane symbols, while her irises flash greenish-yellow. In her left hand is a shiny steel dagger, dripping with blood. Murmuring a dark incantation, she points the crystal ball at a knight, causing him to collapse to the floor, screaming in pain.
A noble sits by a mirror, getting ready for a party hosted by him in his home. Looking in the mirror he straightens his dress coat, and sees something flash in the mirror, the eye of humanoid creature. He stumbles back and yelps, turning back towards the looking glass, seeing nothing. Though the eye is gone, he still feels something strange, a tingling icy sensations, as if he's being watched.
Within a dark cave, a coven of occultists gather around a glowing green cauldron, chanting words in Infernal. As they channel their magic together, one member adds the last ingredient to the mixture, the tentacle of an illithid. The water hisses, dissolving the last unearthly addition, and a small creature climbs out of the cauldron, and then another, and another. Three familiars leap out of the boiling mixture, coiling themselves around the shoulder of their mistress.
Occultists are masters of dark and strange magic, exemplars of unearthly power, channeling their magic through trinkets and gross items. Members of this class call themselves Mages, Witches, and Occultists. The class, like the wizard, channels their magic from the weave of magic that covers the multiverse, but instead of using a vast variety of arcane spells for utility and combat purposes, the occultist generally focuses on the darker, taboo side of magic. They can spy on enemies with scrying spells, curse them with hexes, jinxes, and other dark magic, as well as using blood and bones to fuel and focus their spells.
Occultist
Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
1st
+2
Spellcasting, Arcane Incantation
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
2nd
+2
Magic Jinx
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
3rd
+2
Coven Rite, Magic Line
4
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
5th
+3
─
4
4
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
6th
+3
Recycle Spells
4
4
3
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
7th
+3
Dark Line feature
4
4
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
—
8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
9th
+4
─
4
4
3
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
10th
+4
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
11th
+4
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
13th
+5
─
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
14th
+5
Improved Coven Magic
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
15th
+5
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
17th
+6
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1
18th
+6
─
5
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1
19th
+6
Unearthly Powers
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
20th
+6
Dark Mage
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1
Class Features
As an occultist, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per occultist level Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per occultist level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None Weapons: Simple weapons Tools: Brewers' Tools or Alchemists' Supplies Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Persuasion, Deception, Sleight of Hand
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
any simple weapon of your choice
(a) a component pouch or (b) a trinket or (c) an arcane focus
(a) a scholar's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
A grimoire
Spellcasting
As a practitioner of arcane magic, you have a grimoire containing spells that allow you to channel your dark spells.
Cantrips
At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the witch spell list. You learn additional witch cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Occultist table.
Grimoire
At 1st level, you have 2 occultist spells that have the ritual tag written in your grimoire. Your grimoire is where you write your ritual spells, and can cast those spells only while holding your grimoire. If you cast a ritual spell from your grimoire as its original casting time, you don't need to prepare that spell, and must be holding your grimoire at the time of the casting. You cannot prepare spells that have the ritual tag, and can only prepare spells that are not in your grimoire.
(Copying ritual spells into the book functions as copying a spell into a spellbook from the wizard sidebar.)
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Occultist table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your witch spells. To cast one of your witch spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of occultist spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the occultist spell list. When you do so, choose an amount of occultist spells equal to your Intelligence modifier + your witch level. These spells must be of a level that you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a 3rd-level witch, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spell list. If you prepare the 1st-level spell hex, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of occultist spells requires time spent doing dark rites using your spellcasting focus and grimoire: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your occultist spells: your understanding of the dark threads of magic allow you to wield these spells with superior skill. You use your Intelligence whenever a occultist spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an occultist spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Ritual Casting
You can cast a occultist spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and is written in your grimoire.
Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus or any of the following items as a spellcasting focus for your witch spells; lantern, crystal ball, candle, needle, a jar, a bottle, fragment of obsidian, or a skull.
Occultist Spell List
Here's the list of spells you consult when you learn an occultist spell. The list is organized by spell level, not character level.
These spells are from the Player's Handbook and Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Cantrips (0 Level)
acid splash chill touch dancing lights friends infestation light mage hand mending message minor illusion poison spray primal savagery thorn whip toll the dead witchcraft (see end of class description)
1st Level
armor of agathys cause fear charm person command comprehend languages cure wounds detect magic disguise self dissonant whispers faerie fire false life feather fall hellish rebuke hex identify inflict wounds jump longstrider mage armor protection from evil and good ray of sickness silent image sleep speak with animals tasha's hideous laughter unseen servant witch bolt
2nd Level
alter self animal messenger blindness/deafness blur cloud of daggers continual flame crown of madness darkness darkvision detect thoughts earthbind enhance ability enthrall heat metal hold person invisibility levitate locate object magic mouth melf's acid arrow misty step phantasmal force ray of enfeeblement rope trick scorching ray see invisibility shadow blade skywrite spider climb suggestion web
3rd Level
bestow curse blink clairvoyance counterspell dispell magic fear feign death fly glyph of warding haste hypnotic pattern leomund's tiny hut life transference magic circle major image nondetection phantom steed remove curse sending slow speak with dead spirit guardians stinking cloud summon lesser demons tongues vampiric touch
animate objects antilife shell awaken cloudkill contact other plane contagion dominate person dream enervation far step geas hold monster infernal calling insect plague legend lore mislead modify memory negative energy flood planar binding rary's telepathic bond scrying seeming teleportation circle
6th Level
circle of death conjure fey create homunculus disintegrate eyebite flesh to stone harm magic jar mass suggestion mental prison otto's irresistible dance programmed illusion soul cage true seeing wall of thorns
7th Level
etherealness finger of death mirage arcane mordenkainen's magnificent mansion plane shift project image sequester simulacrum symbol
8th Level
abi-dalzim's horrid wilting antimagic field antipathy/sympathy clone demiplane dominate monster feeblemind glibness illusory dragon maddening darkness maze mind blank power word stun
9th Level
foresight gate imprisonment mass polymorph power word kill psychic scream true polymorph weird wish
Arcane Incantation
While you concentrate on an occultist spell, you can empower your spells. When you cast a spell that deals damage or heals during this time, you may reroll an amount of damage dice equal to your proficiency bonus.
Magic Jinx
Starting at 2nd level, you gain access to a set of curses that you can set on creatures to cause harmful effects. You know an amount of jinxes equal to your proficiency bonus. You can use a jinx you know once, regaining the ability to use all of your used jinxes at the end of a long rest. You may use a jinx when you hit a creature with an attack or when they fail a saving throw against a spell you cast, but may only use one jinx a turn.
Jinx of Obscuring
The target becomes blinded or deafened (your choice), and remains that way for the next minute. The creature may make a Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Immobility
The targets speeds become 0, and it cannot be increased in any way for the next minute. The creature may make a Strength saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Stupidity
The target must target the closest creature to it with its attacks and other harmful effects. The creature may make an Intelligence saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of the Cowardly
The target is frightened by you, and must use all of its movement moving directly away from you on their turns. The creature may make a Charisma saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Enfeebling
The target has disadvantage on all attack rolls and it has disadvantage on Strength checks. The creature may make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Clumsiness
The target has disadvantage on all Dexterity saving throws and all attack rolls made against it have advantage. The creature may make a Dexterity saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Coven Rite
Beginning at level 3, you are a master of sharing spellcasting with others. At the end of a short or long rest, you may perform a ritual with other spellcasters, the ritual taking at least 10 minutes of the rest per spellcaster. You may give another willing caster your spell slots, or they may give you spell slots. They must expend a spell slot that they have to give you the spell slot, and you must do the same to give another caster a spell slot. The spell slot they gain must be of a level they could already cost, and they gain the slot equal to the level expended. The spell slot that they receive lasts until they use it or finish a long rest.
While you are performing this ritual, you gain an amount of Coven Points equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one). When performing a ritual, you may expend Coven Points to give yourself or another spellcaster that is doing the ritual with you extra spell slots equal to the amount of Coven Points you expend, as long as they have spell slots of the level you give them. You regain all Coven Points at the end of a long rest.
At level 14, you may give a spell slot of 5th level or lower to a creature that has the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature of a level spell slot they have while using this feature, expending no spell slot to do so. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of your next long rest.
Magic Line
At 3rd level, you choose your favored source of magic. Up until this point, you were harnessing your magic from the general obscured powers that lurk in the multiverse, but now you can focus on one specific archetype of dark magic, allowing you to gain more power in that specific field of magic. Choose from one of the ways to focus your magic: Blood Magic, Bone Magic, Familiar Magic, Morph Magic, Earth Magic, and Mixture Magic, all detailed at the end of the class description.
Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking this feature to take a feat of your choice instead.
Recycle Spells
At level 6, you can harness the lingering magic of spells you cast that fail. When you cast a spell and miss with an attack roll for a spell of 2nd-level or higher you cast on another creature that they succeed on the saving throw for or you miss with the attack roll for the spell, you may choose to cause the spell to have no effect if it would have done any damage or any other effect. When you do so, you can regain a spell slot of the spell's level or lower.
New Spells
Witchcraft
evocation cantrip
As a practitioner of witch magic and dark spells, you are adept at focusing your magical powers to shape the environment around you. As an action while holding a spellcasting focus, you can cause one of the following magical effects of your choice to immediately happen:
You create an instantaneous, harmless eerie effect on a creature you can see within 10 feet, strong enough to be noticeable, but not strong enough to cause any damage or condition. This effect could be a shiver down their back, a slight headache, a piercing pain in a part of their body of your choice, a slight tingling sensation, or a slight increase or decrease in temperature.
You instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire within 10 feet of you.
You instantly soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot within 10 feet of you.
You make a symbol, up to 10 words of text, or simple drawing appear on an object or surface within 10 feet of you for the next hour or until you dismiss it at any point (no action required).
You open or close an unlocked door, window, or shutter within 10 feet of you.
You alter the appearance of your eyes, hair, or one piece of clothing on you for the next hour or until you dismiss this change at any point (no action required).
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Wrapped in a dark, shadowy cloak that are an emblem of his dark power, a shadar-kai steps forward out of the alleyway. Her right hand fiddles with a crystal ball covered in arcane symbols, while her irises flash greenish-yellow. In her left hand is a shiny steel dagger, dripping with blood. Murmuring a dark incantation, she points the crystal ball at a knight, causing him to collapse to the floor, screaming in pain.
A noble sits by a mirror, getting ready for a party hosted by him in his home. Looking in the mirror he straightens his dress coat, and sees something flash in the mirror, the eye of humanoid creature. He stumbles back and yelps, turning back towards the looking glass, seeing nothing. Though the eye is gone, he still feels something strange, a tingling icy sensations, as if he's being watched.
Within a dark cave, a coven of occultists gather around a glowing green cauldron, chanting words in Infernal. As they channel their magic together, one member adds the last ingredient to the mixture, the tentacle of an illithid. The water hisses, dissolving the last unearthly addition, and a small creature climbs out of the cauldron, and then another, and another. Three familiars leap out of the boiling mixture, coiling themselves around the shoulder of their mistress.
Occultists are masters of dark and strange magic, exemplars of unearthly power, channeling their magic through trinkets and gross items. Members of this class call themselves Mages, Witches, and Occultists. The class, like the wizard, channels their magic from the weave of magic that covers the multiverse, but instead of using a vast variety of arcane spells for utility and combat purposes, the occultist generally focuses on the darker, taboo side of magic. They can spy on enemies with scrying spells, curse them with hexes, jinxes, and other dark magic, as well as using blood and bones to fuel and focus their spells.
Occultist
Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
1st
+2
Spellcasting, Arcane Incantation
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
2nd
+2
Magic Jinx
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
3rd
+2
Coven Rite, Magic Line
4
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
5th
+3
─
4
4
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
6th
+3
Recycle Spells
4
4
3
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
7th
+3
Dark Line feature
4
4
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
—
8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
9th
+4
─
4
4
3
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
10th
+4
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
11th
+4
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
13th
+5
─
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
14th
+5
Improved Coven Magic
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
15th
+5
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
17th
+6
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1
18th
+6
─
5
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1
19th
+6
Unearthly Powers
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
20th
+6
Dark Mage
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1
Class Features
As an occultist, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per occultist level Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per occultist level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None Weapons: Simple weapons Tools: Brewers' Tools or Alchemists' Supplies Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Persuasion, Deception, Sleight of Hand
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
any simple weapon of your choice
(a) a component pouch or (b) a trinket or (c) an arcane focus
(a) a scholar's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
A grimoire
Spellcasting
As a practitioner of arcane magic, you have a grimoire containing spells that allow you to channel your dark spells.
Cantrips
At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the witch spell list. You learn additional witch cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Occultist table.
Grimoire
At 1st level, you have 2 occultist spells that have the ritual tag written in your grimoire. Your grimoire is where you write your ritual spells, and can cast those spells only while holding your grimoire. If you cast a ritual spell from your grimoire as its original casting time, you don't need to prepare that spell, and must be holding your grimoire at the time of the casting. You cannot prepare spells that have the ritual tag, and can only prepare spells that are not in your grimoire.
(Copying ritual spells into the book functions as copying a spell into a spellbook from the wizard sidebar.)
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Occultist table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your witch spells. To cast one of your witch spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of occultist spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the occultist spell list. When you do so, choose an amount of occultist spells equal to your Intelligence modifier + your witch level. These spells must be of a level that you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a 3rd-level witch, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spell list. If you prepare the 1st-level spell hex, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of occultist spells requires time spent doing dark rites using your spellcasting focus and grimoire: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your occultist spells: your understanding of the dark threads of magic allow you to wield these spells with superior skill. You use your Intelligence whenever a occultist spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an occultist spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Ritual Casting
You can cast a occultist spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and is written in your grimoire.
Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus or any of the following items as a spellcasting focus for your witch spells; lantern, crystal ball, candle, needle, a jar, a bottle, fragment of obsidian, or a skull.
Occultist Spell List
Here's the list of spells you consult when you learn an occultist spell. The list is organized by spell level, not character level.
These spells are from the Player's Handbook and Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Cantrips (0 Level)
acid splash chill touch dancing lights friends infestation light mage hand mending message minor illusion poison spray primal savagery thorn whip toll the dead witchcraft (see end of class description)
1st Level
armor of agathys cause fear charm person command comprehend languages cure wounds detect magic disguise self dissonant whispers faerie fire false life feather fall hellish rebuke hex identify inflict wounds jump longstrider mage armor protection from evil and good ray of sickness silent image sleep speak with animals tasha's hideous laughter unseen servant witch bolt
2nd Level
alter self animal messenger blindness/deafness blur cloud of daggers continual flame crown of madness darkness darkvision detect thoughts earthbind enhance ability enthrall heat metal hold person invisibility levitate locate object magic mouth melf's acid arrow misty step phantasmal force ray of enfeeblement rope trick scorching ray see invisibility shadow blade skywrite spider climb suggestion web
3rd Level
bestow curse blink clairvoyance counterspell dispell magic fear feign death fly glyph of warding haste hypnotic pattern leomund's tiny hut life transference magic circle major image nondetection phantom steed remove curse sending slow speak with dead spirit guardians stinking cloud summon lesser demons tongues vampiric touch
animate objects antilife shell awaken cloudkill contact other plane contagion dominate person dream enervation far step geas hold monster infernal calling insect plague legend lore mislead modify memory negative energy flood planar binding rary's telepathic bond scrying seeming teleportation circle
6th Level
circle of death conjure fey create homunculus disintegrate eyebite flesh to stone harm magic jar mass suggestion mental prison otto's irresistible dance programmed illusion soul cage true seeing wall of thorns
7th Level
etherealness finger of death mirage arcane mordenkainen's magnificent mansion plane shift project image sequester simulacrum symbol
8th Level
abi-dalzim's horrid wilting antimagic field antipathy/sympathy clone demiplane dominate monster feeblemind glibness illusory dragon maddening darkness maze mind blank power word stun
9th Level
foresight gate imprisonment mass polymorph power word kill psychic scream true polymorph weird wish
Arcane Incantation
While you concentrate on an occultist spell, you can empower your spells. When you cast a spell that deals damage or heals during this time, you may reroll an amount of damage dice equal to your proficiency bonus.
Magic Jinx
Starting at 2nd level, you gain access to a set of curses that you can set on creatures to cause harmful effects. You know an amount of jinxes equal to your proficiency bonus. You can use a jinx you know once, regaining the ability to use all of your used jinxes at the end of a long rest. You may use a jinx when you hit a creature with an attack or when they fail a saving throw against a spell you cast, but may only use one jinx a turn.
Jinx of Obscuring
The target becomes blinded or deafened (your choice), and remains that way for the next minute. The creature may make a Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Immobility
The targets speeds become 0, and it cannot be increased in any way for the next minute. The creature may make a Strength saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Stupidity
The target must target the closest creature to it with its attacks and other harmful effects. The creature may make an Intelligence saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of the Cowardly
The target is frightened by you, and must use all of its movement moving directly away from you on their turns. The creature may make a Charisma saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Enfeebling
The target has disadvantage on all attack rolls and it has disadvantage on Strength checks. The creature may make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Clumsiness
The target has disadvantage on all Dexterity saving throws and all attack rolls made against it have advantage. The creature may make a Dexterity saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Coven Rite
Beginning at level 3, you are a master of sharing spellcasting with others. At the end of a short or long rest, you may perform a ritual with other spellcasters, the ritual taking at least 10 minutes of the rest per spellcaster. You may give another willing caster your spell slots, or they may give you spell slots. They must expend a spell slot that they have to give you the spell slot, and you must do the same to give another caster a spell slot. The spell slot they gain must be of a level they could already cost, and they gain the slot equal to the level expended. The spell slot that they receive lasts until they use it or finish a long rest.
While you are performing this ritual, you gain an amount of Coven Points equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one). When performing a ritual, you may expend Coven Points to give yourself or another spellcaster that is doing the ritual with you extra spell slots equal to the amount of Coven Points you expend, as long as they have spell slots of the level you give them. You regain all Coven Points at the end of a long rest.
At level 14, you may give a spell slot of 5th level or lower to a creature that has the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature of a level spell slot they have while using this feature, expending no spell slot to do so. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of your next long rest.
Magic Line
At 3rd level, you choose your favored source of magic. Up until this point, you were harnessing your magic from the general obscured powers that lurk in the multiverse, but now you can focus on one specific archetype of dark magic, allowing you to gain more power in that specific field of magic. Choose from one of the ways to focus your magic: Blood Magic, Bone Magic, Familiar Magic, Morph Magic, Earth Magic, and Mixture Magic, all detailed at the end of the class description.
Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking this feature to take a feat of your choice instead.
Recycle Spells
At level 6, you can harness the lingering magic of spells you cast that fail. When you cast a spell and miss with an attack roll for a spell of 2nd-level or higher you cast on another creature that they succeed on the saving throw for or you miss with the attack roll for the spell, you may choose to cause the spell to have no effect if it would have done any damage or any other effect. When you do so, you can regain a spell slot of the spell's level or lower.
New Spells
Witchcraft
evocation cantrip
As a practitioner of witch magic and dark spells, you are adept at focusing your magical powers to shape the environment around you. As an action while holding a spellcasting focus, you can cause one of the following magical effects of your choice to immediately happen:
You create an instantaneous, harmless eerie effect on a creature you can see within 10 feet, strong enough to be noticeable, but not strong enough to cause any damage or condition. This effect could be a shiver down their back, a slight headache, a piercing pain in a part of their body of your choice, a slight tingling sensation, or a slight increase or decrease in temperature.
You instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire within 10 feet of you.
You instantly soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot within 10 feet of you.
You make a symbol, up to 10 words of text, or simple drawing appear on an object or surface within 10 feet of you for the next hour or until you dismiss it at any point (no action required).
You open or close an unlocked door, window, or shutter within 10 feet of you.
You alter the appearance of your eyes, hair, or one piece of clothing on you for the next hour or until you dismiss this change at any point (no action required).
Some of the wording is a little funky, but I like it.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
this is the part where I stare very harshly at the paladin
To be fair, I think this edition's Paladin is the most flexible it's ever been (when comparing choices for the player). Dunno about 4e but AFAIR in 3.5 you had to go to UA to find concepts like Paladin of Tyranny/Paladin of Freedom who were allowed to have alignment other than Lawful Good.
The more revisions you make, the more it feels like Wis should be the primary stat for this class.
Overall, I very much get the feel of a Wizard with Channel Divinity re-branded as Jinx, Arcane Recovery re-branded as Coven Rite with group utility added, Empowered Spell re-branded as Arcane Incantation, and a sprinkle of a magical version of Master Duelist thrown in for flavor in Recycle Spell. None of that is a bad thing and definitely makes it fit into the 5e world fairly seamlessly. My general sense, though, is that it already has an amazing toolkit without a subclass, so the potential for severe imbalance exists once subclasses are added.
tfw people are able to brew up a concept homebrew class in like a day, while I've been failing for weeks.
Third has a secret time machine. That actually took long enough to grow a full beard, but then he just hacked his way back in time like Hackerman in Kung Fury to post it here.
tfw people are able to brew up a concept homebrew class in like a day, while I've been failing for weeks.
Third has a secret time machine. That actually took long enough to grow a full beard, but then he just hacked his way back in time like Hackerman in Kung Fury to post it here.
This is kinda tru tho....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Wrapped in a dark, shadowy cloak that are an emblem of his dark power, a shadar-kai steps forward out of the alleyway. Her right hand fiddles with a crystal ball covered in arcane symbols, while her irises flash greenish-yellow. In her left hand is a shiny steel dagger, dripping with blood. Murmuring a dark incantation, she points the crystal ball at a knight, causing him to collapse to the floor, screaming in pain.
A noble sits by a mirror, getting ready for a party hosted by him in his home. Looking in the mirror he straightens his dress coat, and sees something flash in the mirror, the eye of humanoid creature. He stumbles back and yelps, turning back towards the looking glass, seeing nothing. Though the eye is gone, he still feels something strange, a tingling icy sensations, as if he's being watched.
Within a dark cave, a coven of occultists gather around a glowing green cauldron, chanting words in Infernal. As they channel their magic together, one member adds the last ingredient to the mixture, the tentacle of an illithid. The water hisses, dissolving the last unearthly addition, and a small creature climbs out of the cauldron, and then another, and another. Three familiars leap out of the boiling mixture, coiling themselves around the shoulder of their mistress.
Occultists are masters of dark and strange magic, exemplars of unearthly power, channeling their magic through trinkets and gross items. Members of this class call themselves Mages, Witches, and Occultists. The class, like the wizard, channels their magic from the weave of magic that covers the multiverse, but instead of using a vast variety of arcane spells for utility and combat purposes, the occultist generally focuses on the darker, taboo side of magic. They can spy on enemies with scrying spells, curse them with hexes, jinxes, and other dark magic, as well as using blood and bones to fuel and focus their spells.
Occultist
Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
1st
+2
Spellcasting, Arcane Incantation
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
2nd
+2
Magic Jinx
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
3rd
+2
Coven Rite, Magic Line
4
4
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
5th
+3
─
4
4
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
6th
+3
Recycle Spells
4
4
3
3
—
—
—
—
—
—
7th
+3
Dark Line feature
4
4
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
—
8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
9th
+4
─
4
4
3
3
3
1
—
—
—
—
10th
+4
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
—
—
—
—
11th
+4
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
—
—
—
13th
+5
─
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
14th
+5
Improved Coven Magic
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
—
—
15th
+5
Dark Line feature
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
—
17th
+6
Magic Jinx Improvement
5
4
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
1
18th
+6
─
5
4
3
3
3
3
1
1
1
1
19th
+6
Unearthly Powers
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
1
1
1
20th
+6
Dark Mage
5
4
3
3
3
3
2
2
1
1
Class Features
As an occultist, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per occultist level Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per occultist level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None Weapons: Simple weapons Tools: Brewers' Tools or Alchemists' Supplies Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Persuasion, Deception, Sleight of Hand
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
any simple weapon of your choice
(a) a component pouch or (b) a trinket or (c) an arcane focus
(a) a scholar's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
A grimoire
Spellcasting
As a practitioner of arcane magic, you have a grimoire containing spells that allow you to channel your dark spells.
Cantrips
At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the witch spell list. You learn additional witch cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Occultist table.
Grimoire
At 1st level, you have 2 occultist spells that have the ritual tag written in your grimoire. Your grimoire is where you write your ritual spells, and can cast those spells only while holding your grimoire. If you cast a ritual spell from your grimoire as its original casting time, you don't need to prepare that spell, and must be holding your grimoire at the time of the casting. You cannot prepare spells that have the ritual tag, and can only prepare spells that are not in your grimoire.
(Copying ritual spells into the book functions as copying a spell into a spellbook from the wizard sidebar.)
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Occultist table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your witch spells. To cast one of your witch spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of occultist spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the occultist spell list. When you do so, choose an amount of occultist spells equal to your Intelligence modifier + your witch level. These spells must be of a level that you have spell slots. For example, if you’re a 3rd-level witch, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spell list. If you prepare the 1st-level spell hex, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of occultist spells requires time spent doing dark rites using your spellcasting focus and grimoire: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your occultist spells: your understanding of the dark threads of magic allow you to wield these spells with superior skill. You use your Intelligence whenever a occultist spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an occultist spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Ritual Casting
You can cast a occultist spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and is written in your grimoire.
Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus or any of the following items as a spellcasting focus for your witch spells; lantern, crystal ball, candle, needle, a jar, a bottle, fragment of obsidian, or a skull.
Occultist Spell List
Here's the list of spells you consult when you learn an occultist spell. The list is organized by spell level, not character level.
These spells are from the Player's Handbook and Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Cantrips (0 Level)
acid splash chill touch dancing lights friends infestation light mage hand mending message minor illusion poison spray primal savagery thorn whip toll the dead witchcraft (see end of class description)
1st Level
armor of agathys cause fear charm person command comprehend languages cure wounds detect magic disguise self dissonant whispers faerie fire false life feather fall hellish rebuke hex identify inflict wounds jump longstrider mage armor protection from evil and good ray of sickness silent image sleep speak with animals tasha's hideous laughter unseen servant witch bolt
2nd Level
alter self animal messenger blindness/deafness blur cloud of daggers continual flame crown of madness darkness darkvision detect thoughts earthbind enhance ability enthrall heat metal hold person invisibility levitate locate object magic mouth melf's acid arrow misty step phantasmal force ray of enfeeblement rope trick scorching ray see invisibility shadow blade skywrite spider climb suggestion web
3rd Level
bestow curse blink clairvoyance counterspell dispell magic fear feign death fly glyph of warding haste hypnotic pattern leomund's tiny hut life transference magic circle major image nondetection phantom steed remove curse sending slow speak with dead spirit guardians stinking cloud summon lesser demons tongues vampiric touch
animate objects antilife shell awaken cloudkill contact other plane contagion dominate person dream enervation far step geas hold monster infernal calling insect plague legend lore mislead modify memory negative energy flood planar binding rary's telepathic bond scrying seeming teleportation circle
6th Level
circle of death conjure fey create homunculus disintegrate eyebite flesh to stone harm magic jar mass suggestion mental prison otto's irresistible dance programmed illusion soul cage true seeing wall of thorns
7th Level
etherealness finger of death mirage arcane mordenkainen's magnificent mansion plane shift project image sequester simulacrum symbol
8th Level
abi-dalzim's horrid wilting antimagic field antipathy/sympathy clone demiplane dominate monster feeblemind glibness illusory dragon maddening darkness maze mind blank power word stun
9th Level
foresight gate imprisonment mass polymorph power word kill psychic scream true polymorph weird wish
Arcane Incantation
While you concentrate on an occultist spell, you can empower your spells. When you cast a spell that deals damage or heals during this time, you may reroll an amount of damage dice equal to your proficiency bonus.
Magic Jinx
Starting at 2nd level, you gain access to a set of curses that you can set on creatures to cause harmful effects. You know an amount of jinxes equal to your proficiency bonus. You can use a jinx you know once, regaining the ability to use all of your used jinxes at the end of a long rest. You may use a jinx when you hit a creature with an attack or when they fail a saving throw against a spell you cast, but may only use one jinx a turn.
Jinx of Obscuring
The target becomes blinded or deafened (your choice), and remains that way for the next minute. The creature may make a Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Immobility
The targets speeds become 0, and it cannot be increased in any way for the next minute. The creature may make a Strength saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Stupidity
The target must target the closest creature to it with its attacks and other harmful effects. The creature may make an Intelligence saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of the Cowardly
The target is frightened by you, and must use all of its movement moving directly away from you on their turns. The creature may make a Charisma saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Enfeebling
The target has disadvantage on all attack rolls and it has disadvantage on Strength checks. The creature may make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Clumsiness
The target has disadvantage on all Dexterity saving throws and all attack rolls made against it have advantage. The creature may make a Dexterity saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Coven Rite
Beginning at level 3, you are a master of sharing spellcasting with others. At the end of a short or long rest, you may perform a ritual with other spellcasters, the ritual taking at least 10 minutes of the rest per spellcaster. You may give another willing caster your spell slots, or they may give you spell slots. They must expend a spell slot that they have to give you the spell slot, and you must do the same to give another caster a spell slot. The spell slot they gain must be of a level they could already cost, and they gain the slot equal to the level expended. The spell slot that they receive lasts until they use it or finish a long rest.
While you are performing this ritual, you gain an amount of Coven Points equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one). When performing a ritual, you may expend Coven Points to give yourself or another spellcaster that is doing the ritual with you extra spell slots equal to the amount of Coven Points you expend, as long as they have spell slots of the level you give them. You regain all Coven Points at the end of a long rest.
At level 14, you may give a spell slot of 5th level or lower to a creature that has the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature of a level spell slot they have while using this feature, expending no spell slot to do so. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of your next long rest.
Magic Line
At 3rd level, you choose your favored source of magic. Up until this point, you were harnessing your magic from the general obscured powers that lurk in the multiverse, but now you can focus on one specific archetype of dark magic, allowing you to gain more power in that specific field of magic. Choose from one of the ways to focus your magic: Blood Magic, Bone Magic, Familiar Magic, Morph Magic, Earth Magic, and Mixture Magic, all detailed at the end of the class description.
Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking this feature to take a feat of your choice instead.
Recycle Spells
At level 6, you can harness the lingering magic of spells you cast that fail. When you cast a spell and miss with an attack roll for a spell of 2nd-level or higher you cast on another creature that they succeed on the saving throw for or you miss with the attack roll for the spell, you may choose to cause the spell to have no effect if it would have done any damage or any other effect. When you do so, you can regain a spell slot of the spell's level or lower.
New Spells
Witchcraft
evocation cantrip
As a practitioner of witch magic and dark spells, you are adept at focusing your magical powers to shape the environment around you. As an action while holding a spellcasting focus, you can cause one of the following magical effects of your choice to immediately happen:
You create an instantaneous, harmless eerie effect on a creature you can see within 10 feet, strong enough to be noticeable, but not strong enough to cause any damage or condition. This effect could be a shiver down their back, a slight headache, a piercing pain in a part of their body of your choice, a slight tingling sensation, or a slight increase or decrease in temperature.
You instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire within 10 feet of you.
You instantly soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot within 10 feet of you.
You make a symbol, up to 10 words of text, or simple drawing appear on an object or surface within 10 feet of you for the next hour or until you dismiss it at any point (no action required).
You open or close an unlocked door, window, or shutter within 10 feet of you.
You alter the appearance of your eyes, hair, or one piece of clothing on you for the next hour or until you dismiss this change at any point (no action required).
Lemme rattle it around in my brain for a bit to give you a full review.
First impression, maybe reign in the class a bit so that the subclasses can do more. Maybe make this one like the fighter where it gets 5 subclass features.
Make the Jinxes either an “evil” thing or a subclass thing. A “White Witch” wouldn’t necessary find that appropriate.
Give them a specific choice between “White Magic,” “Grey Magic” and “Black Magic” in some way, or have it tied to the PC’s Alignment at the time when those features are gained. That might be a better way to work in various effects including the jinxes.
Thanks. I may change it from Int to something else if there are further problems with Int, but there currently doesn't seem to be a huge problem with the current spellcasting ability. I can change the Charisma saving throw to Con or Wisdom if both Int and Cha are too uncommon of a saving throw type.
I was not going to mention Wicca or Wiccan anywhere in this class because of that exact reason.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yes.
Which is why the constant attempts to define exactly what a Witch is are distracting from the actual conversation, which is "should there be new classes in D&D 5e? is there design space left unfulfilled? Are there styles of play the game does not support?"
The answers to those questions are "Yes", "oh hell yes", and "oh dear GOD yes".
A double dozen sharply opinionated players in one thread on a third-party service can't come to universal agreement on what classes, design spaces, and playstyles aren't supported? What a shock. Color me amazed. I never woulda guessed. But here's the thing, for me at least. if the demand for new ways to play - new classes, new rules, new gear, new spells and feats, new everything - were as anemic and nonexistant as Kotath, BigLizard, Templar, and the rest keep saying?
Why are there many hundreds of people who can make a comfortable professional living selling that shit on DM's Guild?
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That’s what subclasses are for. Once that base “witch” chassis has been created those various different concepts can then be bolted on using subclasses.
You don’t bolt a class onto another class as a subclass, you build a new generic chassis and then get different subclasses as more specific concepts to bolt onto that. Much like if you don’t want any to play a Thief Rogue one can make an Assassin, or Scout, or.... But that’s only because the Rogue Chassis has been provided.
So a Demon Summoning Witch, or a Cauldron Brewing Witch, or a Hexes and Curses Witch, or White Witch, etc can be bolted onto that base Witch chassis, but only if that chassis exists. Making a “Witch Subclass” of Cleric could at best cover only so much.
Think of a class as a skeleton and a subclass as a meat suit. Trying to use another skeleton as a meat suit just doesn’t.... anything. It doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t function, it doesn’t work....
What you end up with is a mishmash of great ideas that don’t work together and don’t fit like the Bladesinger. If there were a “Magus” class as a skeleton, the Bladesinger would have been a great meat suit for it, but not the Wiz and clearly not the Fighter since Eldritch Knights exist, and obviously not the Paladin either since 70% of their core class features would be a worse fit than the Wizard is.
Edit: Holy Cow. This was my 10,000th post!!
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Again please post or quote my comment where I said anything of the sort.
Nope. The concept of a 'witch' isn't consistent enough to fit within a single class.
You could argue neither is the concept of ranger, or paladin, or warlock.
Yet they still have their own class. Ranger especially has a huge amount of disagreement with what actually is a ranger.
We ended up with two rangers. The class, which is a magic nature warrior half caster, and a subclass scout for rogue, which is a martial, sneaky outdoors type ranger.
I like how this forum lit a fire under everyones.........
anyhow
looks like classes and flavor are a big deal between the boomers of 1e and the doomers of 5e
Weren't you criticising 5e for that very thing before? Being "too narrow"?
So which is it? Is it a user error ie. too high expectations and too long wish-lists of what D&D should look like or design problem ie. not being able to fit those expectations?
Okay, the Witch got mixed reactions, from "JUST FREAKING MAKE IT A WARLOCK OR CLERIC SUBCLASS" to "Cool, change x, give more, that's good."
The name will now be changed to Occultist, to avoid any possible offense. There will be a subclass added called "White Magic" that allows for healing and blessings and stuff like that.
To address the people saying that the Summoning Spells should be added, I agree. I'm just waiting until TCoE is released for them to be added to the spell list.
I will currently keep their spellcasting ability as Intelligence, but that is not completely set in stone. They will get proficiencies with Con and Int saving throws, probably.
The grimoire. This is meant to be a witch's ritual book. It is not their spellbook, they have no equivalent of the wizard's spellbook. It is halfway between the wizard's spellbook and the warlock's tome pact. I personally like the flavor of it, but I may or may not keep it if people don't think it fits. They do not prepare spells out of it, instead they put the rituals into it, so they don't have to prepare them.
Magic Jinx. I may change this, but for the start I just wanted a simple ability. I may change it to scale with proficiency bonus, or something like that. I wanted 6 simple jinxes that would allow minor debuffs, and these currently are filling that role. I'm open to suggestions with these.
Coven Magic. This is mostly supposed to be a unique party support feature. I'm going to keep it as being available to all spellcasters, most likely, just so it is more useful. I can change certain aspects of it. I also wanted to add the feature of getting extra spell slots when using this Ritual, but I wasn't sure how to properly execute that. I'm open to suggestions for this.
Recycle Spell. I know this is a powerful ability, it is supposed to. You are supposed to be a master of manipulating your spells, taking advantage of them even when they fail. This is similar to a Divination Wizard's ability to regain lower level spell slots when casting divination spells. I may change it a bit if it's overpowered, and this does not get rid of the risk of casting spells. For instance, if a creature succeeds on the saving throw against Blight, they normally would take half damage. If the Occultist instead wants to take their chances on a later turn, they can make the spell do no damage, and regain a 3rd level spell slot or lower.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Can you specify why, please? Anything specific about my Witch class (now named Occultist) that isn't "consistent" enough for you with a folklore witch? The subclasses will solidify where they harness their power from, while the base class is meant to be open. That's how classes and subclasses work. The Fighter is a general warrior class, the subclasses determine how they fight.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
There should be some fuzz in a good base class. The fuzz is where a subclass is SUPPOSED to come in - sharpen up the image and dial in on a specific variation of the base class. Certain classes in D&D - this is the part where I stare very harshly at the paladin - have forgotten that principle and put too much focus on the base class. The base class is too sharply defined and has no flex or give, which makes it unsuitable for any sort of "reflavor" attempts. A good base class is one that naturally prompts the question "Okay, what kind of [X]" when someone says "I'm an [X]".
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Okay, here's a slightly revised version:
The Occultist
Wrapped in a dark, shadowy cloak that are an emblem of his dark power, a shadar-kai steps forward out of the alleyway. Her right hand fiddles with a crystal ball covered in arcane symbols, while her irises flash greenish-yellow. In her left hand is a shiny steel dagger, dripping with blood. Murmuring a dark incantation, she points the crystal ball at a knight, causing him to collapse to the floor, screaming in pain.
A noble sits by a mirror, getting ready for a party hosted by him in his home. Looking in the mirror he straightens his dress coat, and sees something flash in the mirror, the eye of humanoid creature. He stumbles back and yelps, turning back towards the looking glass, seeing nothing. Though the eye is gone, he still feels something strange, a tingling icy sensations, as if he's being watched.
Within a dark cave, a coven of occultists gather around a glowing green cauldron, chanting words in Infernal. As they channel their magic together, one member adds the last ingredient to the mixture, the tentacle of an illithid. The water hisses, dissolving the last unearthly addition, and a small creature climbs out of the cauldron, and then another, and another. Three familiars leap out of the boiling mixture, coiling themselves around the shoulder of their mistress.
Occultists are masters of dark and strange magic, exemplars of unearthly power, channeling their magic through trinkets and gross items. Members of this class call themselves Mages, Witches, and Occultists. The class, like the wizard, channels their magic from the weave of magic that covers the multiverse, but instead of using a vast variety of arcane spells for utility and combat purposes, the occultist generally focuses on the darker, taboo side of magic. They can spy on enemies with scrying spells, curse them with hexes, jinxes, and other dark magic, as well as using blood and bones to fuel and focus their spells.
Occultist
Class Features
As an occultist, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per occultist level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per occultist level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Brewers' Tools or Alchemists' Supplies
Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Persuasion, Deception, Sleight of Hand
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
Spellcasting
As a practitioner of arcane magic, you have a grimoire containing spells that allow you to channel your dark spells.
Cantrips
At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the witch spell list. You learn additional witch cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Occultist table.
Grimoire
At 1st level, you have 2 occultist spells that have the ritual tag written in your grimoire. Your grimoire is where you write your ritual spells, and can cast those spells only while holding your grimoire. If you cast a ritual spell from your grimoire as its original casting time, you don't need to prepare that spell, and must be holding your grimoire at the time of the casting. You cannot prepare spells that have the ritual tag, and can only prepare spells that are not in your grimoire.
(Copying ritual spells into the book functions as copying a spell into a spellbook from the wizard sidebar.)
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Occultist table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your witch spells. To cast one of your witch spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of occultist spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the occultist spell list. When you do so, choose an amount of occultist spells equal to your Intelligence modifier + your witch level. These spells must be of a level that you have spell slots.
For example, if you’re a 3rd-level witch, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spell list. If you prepare the 1st-level spell hex, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of occultist spells requires time spent doing dark rites using your spellcasting focus and grimoire: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your occultist spells: your understanding of the dark threads of magic allow you to wield these spells with superior skill. You use your Intelligence whenever a occultist spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an occultist spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Ritual Casting
You can cast a occultist spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and is written in your grimoire.
Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus or any of the following items as a spellcasting focus for your witch spells; lantern, crystal ball, candle, needle, a jar, a bottle, fragment of obsidian, or a skull.
Occultist Spell List
Here's the list of spells you consult when you learn an occultist spell. The list is organized by spell level, not character level.
These spells are from the Player's Handbook and Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Cantrips (0 Level)
acid splash
chill touch
dancing lights
friends
infestation
light
mage hand
mending
message
minor illusion
poison spray
primal savagery
thorn whip
toll the dead
witchcraft (see end of class description)
1st Level
armor of agathys
cause fear
charm person
command
comprehend languages
cure wounds
detect magic
disguise self
dissonant whispers
faerie fire
false life
feather fall
hellish rebuke
hex
identify
inflict wounds
jump
longstrider
mage armor
protection from evil and good
ray of sickness
silent image
sleep
speak with animals
tasha's hideous laughter
unseen servant
witch bolt
2nd Level
alter self
animal messenger
blindness/deafness
blur
cloud of daggers
continual flame
crown of madness
darkness
darkvision
detect thoughts
earthbind
enhance ability
enthrall
heat metal
hold person
invisibility
levitate
locate object
magic mouth
melf's acid arrow
misty step
phantasmal force
ray of enfeeblement
rope trick
scorching ray
see invisibility
shadow blade
skywrite
spider climb
suggestion
web
3rd Level
bestow curse
blink
clairvoyance
counterspell
dispell magic
fear
feign death
fly
glyph of warding
haste
hypnotic pattern
leomund's tiny hut
life transference
magic circle
major image
nondetection
phantom steed
remove curse
sending
slow
speak with dead
spirit guardians
stinking cloud
summon lesser demons
tongues
vampiric touch
4th Level
arcane eye
banishment
blight
charm monster
compulsion
confusion
conjure woodland beings
divination
evard's black tentacles
giant insect
greater invisibility
hallucinatory terrain
leomund's secret chest
locate creature
mordenkainen's faithful hound
mordenkainen's private sanctum
phantasmal killer
polymorph
shadow of moil
sickening radiance
summon greater demon
vitriolic sphere
5th Level
animate objects
antilife shell
awaken
cloudkill
contact other plane
contagion
dominate person
dream
enervation
far step
geas
hold monster
infernal calling
insect plague
legend lore
mislead
modify memory
negative energy flood
planar binding
rary's telepathic bond
scrying
seeming
teleportation circle
6th Level
circle of death
conjure fey
create homunculus
disintegrate
eyebite
flesh to stone
harm
magic jar
mass suggestion
mental prison
otto's irresistible dance
programmed illusion
soul cage
true seeing
wall of thorns
7th Level
etherealness
finger of death
mirage arcane
mordenkainen's magnificent mansion
plane shift
project image
sequester
simulacrum
symbol
8th Level
abi-dalzim's horrid wilting
antimagic field
antipathy/sympathy
clone
demiplane
dominate monster
feeblemind
glibness
illusory dragon
maddening darkness
maze
mind blank
power word stun
9th Level
foresight
gate
imprisonment
mass polymorph
power word kill
psychic scream
true polymorph
weird
wish
Arcane Incantation
While you concentrate on an occultist spell, you can empower your spells. When you cast a spell that deals damage or heals during this time, you may reroll an amount of damage dice equal to your proficiency bonus.
Magic Jinx
Starting at 2nd level, you gain access to a set of curses that you can set on creatures to cause harmful effects. You know an amount of jinxes equal to your proficiency bonus. You can use a jinx you know once, regaining the ability to use all of your used jinxes at the end of a long rest. You may use a jinx when you hit a creature with an attack or when they fail a saving throw against a spell you cast, but may only use one jinx a turn.
Jinx of Obscuring
The target becomes blinded or deafened (your choice), and remains that way for the next minute. The creature may make a Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Immobility
The targets speeds become 0, and it cannot be increased in any way for the next minute. The creature may make a Strength saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Stupidity
The target must target the closest creature to it with its attacks and other harmful effects. The creature may make an Intelligence saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of the Cowardly
The target is frightened by you, and must use all of its movement moving directly away from you on their turns. The creature may make a Charisma saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Enfeebling
The target has disadvantage on all attack rolls and it has disadvantage on Strength checks. The creature may make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Jinx of Clumsiness
The target has disadvantage on all Dexterity saving throws and all attack rolls made against it have advantage. The creature may make a Dexterity saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending this effect on a success.
Coven Rite
Beginning at level 3, you are a master of sharing spellcasting with others. At the end of a short or long rest, you may perform a ritual with other spellcasters, the ritual taking at least 10 minutes of the rest per spellcaster. You may give another willing caster your spell slots, or they may give you spell slots. They must expend a spell slot that they have to give you the spell slot, and you must do the same to give another caster a spell slot. The spell slot they gain must be of a level they could already cost, and they gain the slot equal to the level expended. The spell slot that they receive lasts until they use it or finish a long rest.
While you are performing this ritual, you gain an amount of Coven Points equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one). When performing a ritual, you may expend Coven Points to give yourself or another spellcaster that is doing the ritual with you extra spell slots equal to the amount of Coven Points you expend, as long as they have spell slots of the level you give them. You regain all Coven Points at the end of a long rest.
At level 14, you may give a spell slot of 5th level or lower to a creature that has the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature of a level spell slot they have while using this feature, expending no spell slot to do so. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of your next long rest.
Magic Line
At 3rd level, you choose your favored source of magic. Up until this point, you were harnessing your magic from the general obscured powers that lurk in the multiverse, but now you can focus on one specific archetype of dark magic, allowing you to gain more power in that specific field of magic. Choose from one of the ways to focus your magic: Blood Magic, Bone Magic, Familiar Magic, Morph Magic, Earth Magic, and Mixture Magic, all detailed at the end of the class description.
Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking this feature to take a feat of your choice instead.
Recycle Spells
At level 6, you can harness the lingering magic of spells you cast that fail. When you cast a spell and miss with an attack roll for a spell of 2nd-level or higher you cast on another creature that they succeed on the saving throw for or you miss with the attack roll for the spell, you may choose to cause the spell to have no effect if it would have done any damage or any other effect. When you do so, you can regain a spell slot of the spell's level or lower.
New Spells
Witchcraft
evocation cantrip
As a practitioner of witch magic and dark spells, you are adept at focusing your magical powers to shape the environment around you. As an action while holding a spellcasting focus, you can cause one of the following magical effects of your choice to immediately happen:
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Some of the wording is a little funky, but I like it.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
To be fair, I think this edition's Paladin is the most flexible it's ever been (when comparing choices for the player). Dunno about 4e but AFAIR in 3.5 you had to go to UA to find concepts like Paladin of Tyranny/Paladin of Freedom who were allowed to have alignment other than Lawful Good.
tfw people are able to brew up a concept homebrew class in like a day, while I've been failing for weeks.
It takes practice. I just know this system very well, and can give rough ideas fairly quickly.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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The more revisions you make, the more it feels like Wis should be the primary stat for this class.
Overall, I very much get the feel of a Wizard with Channel Divinity re-branded as Jinx, Arcane Recovery re-branded as Coven Rite with group utility added, Empowered Spell re-branded as Arcane Incantation, and a sprinkle of a magical version of Master Duelist thrown in for flavor in Recycle Spell. None of that is a bad thing and definitely makes it fit into the 5e world fairly seamlessly. My general sense, though, is that it already has an amazing toolkit without a subclass, so the potential for severe imbalance exists once subclasses are added.
Third has a secret time machine. That actually took long enough to grow a full beard, but then he just hacked his way back in time like Hackerman in Kung Fury to post it here.
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This is kinda tru tho....
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Lemme rattle it around in my brain for a bit to give you a full review.
First impression, maybe reign in the class a bit so that the subclasses can do more. Maybe make this one like the fighter where it gets 5 subclass features.
Make the Jinxes either an “evil” thing or a subclass thing. A “White Witch” wouldn’t necessary find that appropriate.
Give them a specific choice between “White Magic,” “Grey Magic” and “Black Magic” in some way, or have it tied to the PC’s Alignment at the time when those features are gained. That might be a better way to work in various effects including the jinxes.
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