Oh gosh yes. The only thing about Ravnica I dislike more than the megacity concept are those stupid effing guilds. I couldn’t make it through the whole first paragraph of any of them without “swiping left.” The only character I actually started to get behind was one who wanted to tear the whole damned system down to rubble and set it on fire.
Yeah. There are too many guilds that have no place in a D&D world, or even less of a place in a party. A major problem with Ravnica is that the players will probably want to be from different guilds, which are normally not friendly with each other, which causes a conflict that could tear the party apart just because of how the world is designed. Ravnica works fine as a M:tG world, but is horrible as a D&D world.
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Oh gosh yes. The only thing about Ravnica I dislike more than the megacity concept are those stupid effing guilds. I couldn’t make it through the whole first paragraph of any of them without “swiping left.” The only character I actually started to get behind was one who wanted to tear the whole damned system down to rubble and set it on fire.
Yeah. There are too many guilds that have no place in a D&D world, or even less of a place in a party. A major problem with Ravnica is that the players will probably want to be from different guilds, which are normally not friendly with each other, which causes a conflict that could tear the party apart just because of how the world is designed. Ravnica works fine as a M:tG world, but is horrible as a D&D world.
Planescape was also kinda like that. But the whole point of Planescape was to go all over the multiverse so I wasn’t the only thing.
Oh gosh yes. The only thing about Ravnica I dislike more than the megacity concept are those stupid effing guilds. I couldn’t make it through the whole first paragraph of any of them without “swiping left.” The only character I actually started to get behind was one who wanted to tear the whole damned system down to rubble and set it on fire.
Yeah. There are too many guilds that have no place in a D&D world, or even less of a place in a party. A major problem with Ravnica is that the players will probably want to be from different guilds, which are normally not friendly with each other, which causes a conflict that could tear the party apart just because of how the world is designed. Ravnica works fine as a M:tG world, but is horrible as a D&D world.
Planescape was also kinda like that. But the whole point of Planescape was to go all over the multiverse so I wasn’t the only thing.
Yeah. Planescape is meant to be different and special, where a Bauriar, Modron, Satyr, and Eladrin journey across the cosmos to do whatever. It works because of its quirkiness and the fact that it makes sense for a cosmology to have absolutes. But, it doesn't make sense in Ravnica. Azorius is in charge in the sake of being a terrible political system run by a winged cat-lady, so that they can use them as villains in the storylines that take place there. Simic exist to create a bunch of strange monsters that escape and almost destroy Ravnica. Izzet exists because Ravnica's scientific method is to throw together a bunch of electricity, alloys, and explosives and hope that they manage to find something that kind of works. It isn't realistic for a D&D world, because we're talking about people, humanoids, and sentient creatures that have common sense, personalities, and depth, while most demons, slaad, modrons, and celestials in Planescape are not supposed to have that.
I personally like a lot of M:tG lore, and find a lot of the inclusions in the books to be fun to use. Having said that, it doesn't mean that the settings themselves fully translate well to D&D settings. Ravnica has a lot of flavor and interesting history and concepts. However it is not a great campaign setting due to how the world's history and story works.
Planescape was also kinda like that. But the whole point of Planescape was to go all over the multiverse so I wasn’t the only thing.
Exactly, factions are very interesting, but they are mostly limited to Sigil, as soon as you get through a door living the Cage, you encounter a lot less of them and different politics apply.
Yes. That’s one of the problems with Ravnica. There’s no break from it.
As a player, who is quite old, but still has only played 5e it is very hard to say anything about the old settings as I have never played them.
I run a game in Eberron and one in Wildemount atm. I am a player in a Chult game and a homebrew game.
I read a lot of forgotten realms novels and played all the old crpg games like baldur’s gate so I know a lot of the lore. I also am a big CR fan and know a lot of the lore from watching the stream.
I really like when the players are really into the setting and their characters are a part of the lore. Unfortunately, most of the players do not spend time outside the game to read about the setting and go that extra mile. They often just want to play their character and are not interested into the background of the setting which I am totally into. Especially my Eberron game suffers from it as they often treat it like a classic fantasy setting which it is clearly not.
The other group in my Wildemount game though has 4 of 6 players that watch CR and because of that know a lot about the general setting, many places and organisations in the world. It is way more fun for me to dm for them as they play there characters embedded in the lore and the overall world. Furthermore the Wildemount book is the best 5e book when it comes to Organisation of information of the different regions.
you get all the info you need about a region, politics, factions, populace condensed. Something I really miss in the Eberron book.
Is that the same at your tables? Are your players interested in the lore at all?
As WotC has so many old settings to bring back I really doubt that they will take the risk and do a new original setting. Which 3rd party setting is there that is really unique? I backed Grimhollow and it is dark horror with some great player and dm options (like lich, angel, vampire or Lucan options and also an advanced background system that evolves with the characters and is routed in the setting).
How would a new setting by WotC bring that is not already out there?
Agreed - the expectation that a home game should be similar to a streamed show is problematic. I am fortunate enough that my players are very open and don’t think that way. For us it is just a common ground that we like to talk about even out of game.
A simple answer to a player saying that Mercer does it this or that way or different is: well and you are not Laura Bailey or Sam Riegel so why should I be Matt Mercer.
Even the other dnd streams are shows with mostly professionals who come to the table prepared and well aware that it is a show, even if not scripted players go along with the dm. I have never seen a streamed game where player started to argue with the dm. If you have two hours like at the celebration this weekend the dm can be sure that the players try their best to follow his/her lead and get to the story.
My players can spend 30 minutes discussing where to go next... you just don’t see that very often on streams. A home game will always be different from a streamed on and that is totally ok.
I'm kinda confused as to why people think that "creating classic setting books" means MtG books. Nothing about MtG is a classic dnd setting and there are already two MtG setting books. I do not doubt that WoTC is working on more MtG settings but if they are including that in "classic settings" they are purposefully doing a bait and switch. More likely they are going to be the settings frequently mentioned in the 5e books as alternative settings (Greyhawk, Mystra, Dragonlance, etc).
I'm kinda confused as to why people think that "creating classic setting books" means MtG books. Nothing about MtG is a classic dnd setting and there are already two MtG setting books. I do not doubt that WoTC is working on more MtG settings but if they are including that in "classic settings" they are purposefully doing a bait and switch. More likely they are going to be the settings frequently mentioned in the 5e books as alternative settings (Greyhawk, Mystra, Dragonlance, etc).
The confusion comes from a couple vectors. One, some players not having a deep background on the worlds built by D&D pre WotC. But the main culprit was a bunch of vague teases in the recorded video from D&D Celebration where D&D's main Producer and Brand Manager spoke of work being done on "classic worlds" and three actually being in some sort of production pipeline AND there will be some more MtG adapted works too. It's close to an hour long discussion and if you're not really really immersed in D&D's publication history pre 2000, I can see how the confusion can arise. There's also a tendency I've noticed when products are announced, or in this case "suggested", fans tend to see what they want to see.
But yes, three classic worlds revisited are in the production pipeline no specifics as to which ones, MtG content is in the pipeline also not specific, both categories likely for 2021-2022 releases. I think within that time range is also proposed some sort of anthology line of products that will bring more designers into the WotC D&D publishing fold (short adventures to give an alternative to the big campaign book format that's been associated with the bulk of 5e published adventures, I think one could also use this anthology technique for monsters, spells, etc, but I know sources for shorter adventures that also highlights newer designers was specifically discussed). Also products to support D&D play that "aren't books" per se. Lastly, unclear on timing, books that really "push" D&D into spaces it hasn't explored but has the potential to work in.
I thought the panels were pretty well done overall. The DM how to session was pretty good to make new DMs comfortable that there are a lot of ways to play the game, and you'll find your way in particular.
With regards to Ravnica and not being able to make oneself identify with a specific Guild... you don't actually have to. The Gateless are a thing -- basically they are the innocent citizenry that exist across the whole cityscape that also do not feel at home in any of the Guilds. Like you, they see the single-minded zeal of the Guilds and ask what good can come from any of this nonsense, all the while watching the body count rise around them. Some of them feel totally helpless, and do whatever it takes to stay out of everyone's way. Others take up arms, seeking to protect other bystanders from the violence.
The simple fact that there is a cadre of angels that has turned away from the Boros Legion is a pretty clear indication that this isn't just a rare, isolated thing, either. I'd argue that The Gateless probably outnumber all the Guilds combined. They are just too frightened, or physically isolated, or generally disorganized, to do anything about the senseless violence. They lack the tools, magic, and centralized leadership to make a change.
I don't see why they can't work on creating a new setting for us to explore while releasing older, classic settings as well. Grant it I can only imagine what an undertaking that would be, inventing a whole new setting that is both rich and different enough from what came before.
Who says they aren't? Three classic setting does not preclude 1. MtG settings 2. Another Contentient on Exandia 3. Completely new settings 4. More porting of third party settings to D&D, because those don't fall under the classic setting label and they didn't say they were only working on Classic setting.
I really would love Spelljammer, but that's extremely unlikely, IMO. It has been teased and joked about multiple times, but I really don't think it's coming for a few major reasons.
First and foremost, there are barely any 5e campaign setting books in which the world actually has a crystal sphere. The only one I'm aware of that is confirmed to have one is the Forgotten Realms. The M:tG worlds (Ravinica and Theros) don't have any, Eberron doesn't have one, and Wildemount is not confirmed to have one (but we can probably assume that it does). That's all of the current campaign settings. Sure, older settings are coming out soon, but that doesn't confirm that they'll be ones with access to Spelljammer. Dark Sun has no connection to Spelljammer, Ravenloft has nothing to do with Spelljammer, Planescape isn't really connected to Spelljammer, and those are the 3 most likely settings, IMO.
Second, the rulebook for Spelljammer would be difficult to make. They'd first have to map out multiple crystal spheres, detail the planets and worlds, as well as giving mechanics and rules for Wildspace and the Phlogiston. Then, they'd have to create a ton of vehicles and magic items that would help with traveling through Spelljammer, which they have done a bit of, but there is still a lot of work to be done to fully iron that out. They would also have to create monster stats for all the creatures that live in Spelljammer (they've done a few; mind flayers, giff, neogi) and races for certain Spelljammer-specific humanoids. They would also have to create some subclasses as well, like all 5e setting books, and factions in space (i.e. elven armada), and get into all of the mechanics of D&D cosmology.
Third, the setting is obscure. Not many new players have heard of it, and to be honest, it is quite weird (I have DMed a campaign in this setting in 5e, it is very strange). It doesn't feel like normal D&D, which may be the thing that could draw people to it, but I have not met many older players who are nostalgic for this setting. In my personal experience, this setting is sort of a black sheep, that weird thing that happened one time before TSR sold D&D that was marketed as "D&D in SPAAACCE!" Don't get me wrong, I love the setting and would love for it to return, but WotC's resources, in their own opinion, might be better spent working on revamping Planescape or Dark Sun. There's not as much a guarantee with a possible Spelljammer book to sell as a Ravenloft or Darksun setting.
Those are the major reasons that I don't see WotC bringing Spelljammer to fifth edition, no matter how much I would love to see it come.
All the classic D&D settings have crystal spheres except Planescape and maybe Ravenloft (although since they shifted the Domains of Dread from a demiplane to the Shadowfell it might have a crystal sphere too.
All the classic D&D settings have crystal spheres except Planescape and maybe Ravenloft (although since they shifted the Domains of Dread from a demiplane to the Shadowfell it might have a crystal sphere too.
But not Dark Sun, right? I think the 3 most likely old school settings to come to 5e are Planescape, Ravenloft, and Dark Sun, all of which aren't in Spelljammer.
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I would love to be wrong but Dark Sun has a lot of hard R content like cannibalism, slavery, hardcore racism, and a lot of other issues that I think the mainstream 5e community likely wont relate to.
I would love to be wrong but Dark Sun has a lot of hard R content like cannibalism, slavery, hardcore racism, and a lot of other issues that I think the mainstream 5e community likely wont relate to.
Ravenloft has a lot of that stuff, too.
Also, 5e has the youngest population of players out of any of the editions, but not that young. Most of the players are mature and can handle those themes. If a setting book was to come out for Dark Sun, they could have a real disclaimer about the themes of the world, in place of the normal joking ones they have.
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Yeah. There are too many guilds that have no place in a D&D world, or even less of a place in a party. A major problem with Ravnica is that the players will probably want to be from different guilds, which are normally not friendly with each other, which causes a conflict that could tear the party apart just because of how the world is designed. Ravnica works fine as a M:tG world, but is horrible as a D&D world.
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Planescape was also kinda like that. But the whole point of Planescape was to go all over the multiverse so I wasn’t the only thing.
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Yeah. Planescape is meant to be different and special, where a Bauriar, Modron, Satyr, and Eladrin journey across the cosmos to do whatever. It works because of its quirkiness and the fact that it makes sense for a cosmology to have absolutes. But, it doesn't make sense in Ravnica. Azorius is in charge in the sake of being a terrible political system run by a winged cat-lady, so that they can use them as villains in the storylines that take place there. Simic exist to create a bunch of strange monsters that escape and almost destroy Ravnica. Izzet exists because Ravnica's scientific method is to throw together a bunch of electricity, alloys, and explosives and hope that they manage to find something that kind of works. It isn't realistic for a D&D world, because we're talking about people, humanoids, and sentient creatures that have common sense, personalities, and depth, while most demons, slaad, modrons, and celestials in Planescape are not supposed to have that.
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I was speaking more of the factions. Like the Bleakers, etc.
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I personally like a lot of M:tG lore, and find a lot of the inclusions in the books to be fun to use. Having said that, it doesn't mean that the settings themselves fully translate well to D&D settings. Ravnica has a lot of flavor and interesting history and concepts. However it is not a great campaign setting due to how the world's history and story works.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
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Okay. Like these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faction_(Planescape)
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Planescape's Factions had more depth than Ravnica's Guilds.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
And make sense, in a strange way.
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Most definitively.
Yes. That’s one of the problems with Ravnica. There’s no break from it.
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There is one thing I would like to add.
As a player, who is quite old, but still has only played 5e it is very hard to say anything about the old settings as I have never played them.
I run a game in Eberron and one in Wildemount atm. I am a player in a Chult game and a homebrew game.
I read a lot of forgotten realms novels and played all the old crpg games like baldur’s gate so I know a lot of the lore. I also am a big CR fan and know a lot of the lore from watching the stream.
I really like when the players are really into the setting and their characters are a part of the lore. Unfortunately, most of the players do not spend time outside the game to read about the setting and go that extra mile. They often just want to play their character and are not interested into the background of the setting which I am totally into. Especially my Eberron game suffers from it as they often treat it like a classic fantasy setting which it is clearly not.
The other group in my Wildemount game though has 4 of 6 players that watch CR and because of that know a lot about the general setting, many places and organisations in the world. It is way more fun for me to dm for them as they play there characters embedded in the lore and the overall world.
Furthermore the Wildemount book is the best 5e book when it comes to Organisation of information of the different regions.
you get all the info you need about a region, politics, factions, populace condensed. Something I really miss in the Eberron book.
Is that the same at your tables? Are your players interested in the lore at all?
As WotC has so many old settings to bring back I really doubt that they will take the risk and do a new original setting. Which 3rd party setting is there that is really unique?
I backed Grimhollow and it is dark horror with some great player and dm options (like lich, angel, vampire or Lucan options and also an advanced background system that evolves with the characters and is routed in the setting).
How would a new setting by WotC bring that is not already out there?
Agreed - the expectation that a home game should be similar to a streamed show is problematic.
I am fortunate enough that my players are very open and don’t think that way. For us it is just a common ground that we like to talk about even out of game.
A simple answer to a player saying that Mercer does it this or that way or different is: well and you are not Laura Bailey or Sam Riegel so why should I be Matt Mercer.
Even the other dnd streams are shows with mostly professionals who come to the table prepared and well aware that it is a show, even if not scripted players go along with the dm. I have never seen a streamed game where player started to argue with the dm. If you have two hours like at the celebration this weekend the dm can be sure that the players try their best to follow his/her lead and get to the story.
My players can spend 30 minutes discussing where to go next... you just don’t see that very often on streams. A home game will always be different from a streamed on and that is totally ok.
Good times!
I'm kinda confused as to why people think that "creating classic setting books" means MtG books. Nothing about MtG is a classic dnd setting and there are already two MtG setting books. I do not doubt that WoTC is working on more MtG settings but if they are including that in "classic settings" they are purposefully doing a bait and switch. More likely they are going to be the settings frequently mentioned in the 5e books as alternative settings (Greyhawk, Mystra, Dragonlance, etc).
The confusion comes from a couple vectors. One, some players not having a deep background on the worlds built by D&D pre WotC. But the main culprit was a bunch of vague teases in the recorded video from D&D Celebration where D&D's main Producer and Brand Manager spoke of work being done on "classic worlds" and three actually being in some sort of production pipeline AND there will be some more MtG adapted works too. It's close to an hour long discussion and if you're not really really immersed in D&D's publication history pre 2000, I can see how the confusion can arise. There's also a tendency I've noticed when products are announced, or in this case "suggested", fans tend to see what they want to see.
But yes, three classic worlds revisited are in the production pipeline no specifics as to which ones, MtG content is in the pipeline also not specific, both categories likely for 2021-2022 releases. I think within that time range is also proposed some sort of anthology line of products that will bring more designers into the WotC D&D publishing fold (short adventures to give an alternative to the big campaign book format that's been associated with the bulk of 5e published adventures, I think one could also use this anthology technique for monsters, spells, etc, but I know sources for shorter adventures that also highlights newer designers was specifically discussed). Also products to support D&D play that "aren't books" per se. Lastly, unclear on timing, books that really "push" D&D into spaces it hasn't explored but has the potential to work in.
I thought the panels were pretty well done overall. The DM how to session was pretty good to make new DMs comfortable that there are a lot of ways to play the game, and you'll find your way in particular.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
With regards to Ravnica and not being able to make oneself identify with a specific Guild... you don't actually have to. The Gateless are a thing -- basically they are the innocent citizenry that exist across the whole cityscape that also do not feel at home in any of the Guilds. Like you, they see the single-minded zeal of the Guilds and ask what good can come from any of this nonsense, all the while watching the body count rise around them. Some of them feel totally helpless, and do whatever it takes to stay out of everyone's way. Others take up arms, seeking to protect other bystanders from the violence.
The simple fact that there is a cadre of angels that has turned away from the Boros Legion is a pretty clear indication that this isn't just a rare, isolated thing, either. I'd argue that The Gateless probably outnumber all the Guilds combined. They are just too frightened, or physically isolated, or generally disorganized, to do anything about the senseless violence. They lack the tools, magic, and centralized leadership to make a change.
Who says they aren't? Three classic setting does not preclude 1. MtG settings 2. Another Contentient on Exandia 3. Completely new settings 4. More porting of third party settings to D&D, because those don't fall under the classic setting label and they didn't say they were only working on Classic setting.
I personally think we could get a Zendikar book.
All the classic D&D settings have crystal spheres except Planescape and maybe Ravenloft (although since they shifted the Domains of Dread from a demiplane to the Shadowfell it might have a crystal sphere too.
But not Dark Sun, right? I think the 3 most likely old school settings to come to 5e are Planescape, Ravenloft, and Dark Sun, all of which aren't in Spelljammer.
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Dark Sun feels a bit too "Mature" for 5e.
I would love to be wrong but Dark Sun has a lot of hard R content like cannibalism, slavery, hardcore racism, and a lot of other issues that I think the mainstream 5e community likely wont relate to.
Ravenloft has a lot of that stuff, too.
Also, 5e has the youngest population of players out of any of the editions, but not that young. Most of the players are mature and can handle those themes. If a setting book was to come out for Dark Sun, they could have a real disclaimer about the themes of the world, in place of the normal joking ones they have.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms