Okay, I hope most people have had similar experiences with the Genasi. I love the theme of the race, and they should be amazing warlocks and sorcerers, but they just feel underwhelming to me.
I personally feel that the race is underpowered, as they barely get any abilities, and quite a few of the abilities that they do get are weaker than other races' equivalents of them, or just mostly useless (Earth Walk). They don't really feel like the child of a genie, more like a generic elemental-touched race, but weak.
Here's what I would change:
First, their Ability Score Increase seems lacking. A +2 to Constitution isn't bad, but it isn't really good, either. IMO, this should be a bonus to Charisma, probably just a +1, with the subraces giving more specific bonuses. I understand why they didn't do this, this was literally the first official race published after the PHB, and they were yet to make the Shifter and Gith, whose subraces would determine the majority/all of their ASI bonuses.
Second, their speed. Again, I know why they didn't do this, but all genies can fly. IMO, it only makes sense to allow them to get a flying speed, probably 25 or 30 feet. Maybe with later suggestions this would be too powerful, but IDK. It just seems like it would make sense for a half-genie.
Third, why don't they get darkvision? All genies get 120 feet of darkvision. According to math, 0 ft of darkvision averaged with 120 feet of darkvision should grant their children 60 feet of darkvision, not 0 feet of darkvision. I'd give all genasi darkvision, not just Fire Genasi.
Then, the subraces. Let's go in order.
So, the bonus to Dexterity for the Air Genasi makes sense, I personally would increase this to a +2 and change the +2 to Con to a +1 to Cha. The ability to hold your breath as long as you want is good, but the spellcasting is . . . underwhelming. I would give them the Gust cantrip, feather fall once a day at level 3, and levitate once a day at level 5. Next, I would give them resistance to lightning damage.
Earth Genasi! Okay, the Strength bonus makes sense. I would probably change this to a +1 to Strength, Constitution, and Charisma. Earth Walk is okay, I guess. Mostly useless, but that's fine. I would change the spellcasting to allow them to have the Mold Earth cantrip. Then, at 3rd level they can cast earth tremor once a day, and at 5th level they could do maximilian's earthen grasp once a day, instead of Freedom of Movement. Then, I would give them resistance to acid damage.
Okay, I would give Fire Genasi a +1 to Charisma (from their base race), +1 to Intelligence, and then a floating +1 modifier that they get to put anywhere they want. It makes sense, while also being very useful, especially with the optional race changes to TCoE. Fire resistance is fine, and I've already moved the Darkvision to the base race. Reach to the Blaze is fine, I would just let them cast Scorching Ray or Agannazar's Scorcher once a day at 5th level.
For the last subrace, Water Genasi, I would give them a +1 to Charisma (from the base race), +1 to Constitution (from the subrace), and a floating +1 modifier to any ability score of their choice. Then, their acid resistance should become cold resistance. I have no problems with their swimming speed or amphibious, but would allow them to cast freedom of movement once a long rest at level 5.
Finally, I would probably even give them an expanded spell list, with elemental spells that fit their theme from both their subrace and race.
All in all, I do think all of these changes could end up being a bit much, but I think most of them would help bring the Genasi on par with most of the other races, without making them OP.
The rest of the thread should be if you think they're underpowered, and why, as well as how you would change them. Thanks for reading, and please discuss below!
Interesting, I had forgotten that the lore for Genasi changed from older editions. The Genasi of 4e in particular were much more elemental like and had many more subraces, but even before 4e they were more broadly connected to the elemental planes in general, not solely to the Genies.
It might be because of their older origins that they were designed the way they were despite the change to their lore in 5e?
I'd definitely say that they're underpowered, but a flying speed is too good. Genasi have been in the game for a long time but they're always been "humans with a little bit of genie or other elemental-touched power."
I'd leave the racial ability score adjustments like they are. Too many races already have a bonus to charisma, I think constitution is fine for their primary racial ability score.
Other than that, looks good.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Interesting, I had forgotten that the lore for Genasi changed from older editions. The Genasi of 4e in particular were much more elemental like and had many more subraces, but even before 4e they were more broadly connected to the elemental planes in general, not solely to the Genies.
It might be because of their older origins that they were designed the way they were despite the change to their lore in 5e?
I wasn't aware of that, good catch! It is strange if they were to keep the mechanics more loosely "elemental" theme, even though they were changing the lore for their origin.
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All genies can fly, but I think it makes sense to restrict granting flight to only the genasi who have a connection to the Plane of Air because they're not getting the full power of their immortal parent and thus would only need a strong connection to air magic for the ability.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you average out all of the genies' fly speeds, you get 60 feet. If you then halve that for their genasi children, that's 30 feet. It's not a big deal, anyway.
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Genasi are my favourite race by far. The oddest thing I found about them is that only Fire and Water have resistances - the other two don't. I never understood why. Also - Water gets 4 features that aren't ASI - but Earth only gets two?
Well - Pass Without Trace is amazing - but it is only for 1 hour once per day so it's fairly limiting. And the Water Genasi features are really situational - I mean - if you're not in an aquatic campaign you might never get any use out of any of their features. But yea - that all adds to their problem in my opinion.
It is a good spell, but other spellcasters that get to cast 2nd level spells typically also get the typical racial spellcasting layout, with a cantrip at level one, 1st level spell once a day at level 3, and second level spell once a day at 5th level. I also don't think Pass without Trace fits Earth Genasi that well.
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I really like your version, even though it may be a bit op? Not really sure.
I think that for the normal one, it depends a lot on the sub race you choose. Fire is very good, water and air can both be somewhat situational, but are also great. Earth though... Does feel under whelming.
Not really sure what i'd, do, I would take me a while to think is something.
personally, I would just give each of the Genasi their "control element" cantrip. Earth getting Mold Earth, Water getting Shape Water, Air getting Gust, Fire getting Control Flames. Maybe a couple other 1/day casts like Earth getting catapult (for slinging a stone at someone), Water getting Frost Fingers (if Wizards would reprint it), Air... dunno what air would get.
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Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
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I don't think the +1 cha makes sense. Anyway, I heard floating racial ability score improvements are coming with Tasha's and if they do, it won't really matter anymore. Flying speed? I get why you'd say that, but I think it's wrong. True, they are children of genies, but their anatomy is that of a human (or whatever other race their other parents are), pretty much. Looking realistically, these things aren't done by averages. It's either a dominant or recessive gene, and it seems like 5e chose that darkvision is a recessive gene. Now, I do agree that fire genasi look stronger than the others, but I don't think everyone should have darkvision.
So, here are MY suggestions:
First: No changes to the Genasi as a race, only to subraces.
Air: Ability scores as they are now. Spell list as you put it and resistance to lightning damage as you put it. Either 10 ft. of flying speed or jump distance and height doubled.
Fire: Stay the same as they are. Fire Genasi are good, the problem is that the others are weaker.
Earth: Spell list as you put it. Resistance to poison instead of acid. ASI as they are now. Instead of the flying speed and darkvision you gave them, they get tremorsense with a range of 20 ft.
Water: Stays as they are now.
Also no expanded spell list.
I could reason my changes/unchanged stuff but I'm too lazy to do it now. Tbh, even after removing most of what you added, I still think they're strong.
I definitely agree that they are underpowered. Compare a water genasi to a sea elf or triton and they are just straight-up worse. It just feels very haphazard and unfinished.
I'd add a feature or two to the base that all the subraces get (like darkvision and maybe a skill proficiency like Arcana) and then increase their spellcasting a bit - at the least, they should all get the cantrip that manipulates their respective element and probably a level 1 daily spell in addition to what they get now. Earth and Air both need an additional thing roughly equivalent to the resistances Fire and Water get. Might be neat to have a Hellish Rebuke type reaction where once a day they can blast an enemy with their element when they get hit.
I'm not into the fly speed idea, but I prefer to use genasi lore from previous editions as the genie thing just doesn't do it for me and Levitate covers flying for Air. And I don't like their stat bonuses but I'm pretty sure Tasha's will fix that.
Okay, I hope most people have had similar experiences with the Genasi. I love the theme of the race, and they should be amazing warlocks and sorcerers, but they just feel underwhelming to me.
I personally feel that the race is underpowered, as they barely get any abilities, and quite a few of the abilities that they do get are weaker than other races' equivalents of them, or just mostly useless (Earth Walk). They don't really feel like the child of a genie, more like a generic elemental-touched race, but weak.
Here's what I would change:
First, their Ability Score Increase seems lacking. A +2 to Constitution isn't bad, but it isn't really good, either. IMO, this should be a bonus to Charisma, probably just a +1, with the subraces giving more specific bonuses. I understand why they didn't do this, this was literally the first official race published after the PHB, and they were yet to make the Shifter and Gith, whose subraces would determine the majority/all of their ASI bonuses.
Second, their speed. Again, I know why they didn't do this, but all genies can fly. IMO, it only makes sense to allow them to get a flying speed, probably 25 or 30 feet. Maybe with later suggestions this would be too powerful, but IDK. It just seems like it would make sense for a half-genie.
Third, why don't they get darkvision? All genies get 120 feet of darkvision. According to math, 0 ft of darkvision averaged with 120 feet of darkvision should grant their children 60 feet of darkvision, not 0 feet of darkvision. I'd give all genasi darkvision, not just Fire Genasi.
Then, the subraces. Let's go in order.
So, the bonus to Dexterity for the Air Genasi makes sense, I personally would increase this to a +2 and change the +2 to Con to a +1 to Cha. The ability to hold your breath as long as you want is good, but the spellcasting is . . . underwhelming. I would give them the Gust cantrip, feather fall once a day at level 3, and levitate once a day at level 5. Next, I would give them resistance to lightning damage.
Earth Genasi! Okay, the Strength bonus makes sense. I would probably change this to a +1 to Strength, Constitution, and Charisma. Earth Walk is okay, I guess. Mostly useless, but that's fine. I would change the spellcasting to allow them to have the Mold Earth cantrip. Then, at 3rd level they can cast earth tremor once a day, and at 5th level they could do maximilian's earthen grasp once a day, instead of Freedom of Movement. Then, I would give them resistance to acid damage.
Okay, I would give Fire Genasi a +1 to Charisma (from their base race), +1 to Intelligence, and then a floating +1 modifier that they get to put anywhere they want. It makes sense, while also being very useful, especially with the optional race changes to TCoE. Fire resistance is fine, and I've already moved the Darkvision to the base race. Reach to the Blaze is fine, I would just let them cast Scorching Ray or Agannazar's Scorcher once a day at 5th level.
For the last subrace, Water Genasi, I would give them a +1 to Charisma (from the base race), +1 to Constitution (from the subrace), and a floating +1 modifier to any ability score of their choice. Then, their acid resistance should become cold resistance. I have no problems with their swimming speed or amphibious, but would allow them to cast freedom of movement once a long rest at level 5.
Finally, I would probably even give them an expanded spell list, with elemental spells that fit their theme from both their subrace and race.
All in all, I do think all of these changes could end up being a bit much, but I think most of them would help bring the Genasi on par with most of the other races, without making them OP.
The rest of the thread should be if you think they're underpowered, and why, as well as how you would change them. Thanks for reading, and please discuss below!
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Interesting, I had forgotten that the lore for Genasi changed from older editions. The Genasi of 4e in particular were much more elemental like and had many more subraces, but even before 4e they were more broadly connected to the elemental planes in general, not solely to the Genies.
It might be because of their older origins that they were designed the way they were despite the change to their lore in 5e?
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I'd definitely say that they're underpowered, but a flying speed is too good. Genasi have been in the game for a long time but they're always been "humans with a little bit of genie or other elemental-touched power."
I'd leave the racial ability score adjustments like they are. Too many races already have a bonus to charisma, I think constitution is fine for their primary racial ability score.
Other than that, looks good.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I definitely prefer them being able to be connected to any elemental influence, and not pigeonholed into genies.
But yeah they do feel not great atm. I think that for a start all should have their 'elemental manipulation' cantrip.
Flight is far too good though, and I prefer that to stay gated behind genielock. Aarokoka already causes enough issues to many DMs.
I wasn't aware of that, good catch! It is strange if they were to keep the mechanics more loosely "elemental" theme, even though they were changing the lore for their origin.
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IDK, I think it's fine for them to be connected to genies, but would like for there to be a general "elemental" race, too.
Yeah, they're definitely not good in comparison to a Tiefling or Goliath.
Maybe they could choose from either the spellcasting or flight, kind of like a Feral Tiefling?
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That would be a possibility, though I think maybe it should be limited to Air genasi.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
All Genies can fly. It would make more thematic sense for an Air Genasi, but I don't see a lore reason to restrict it to them.
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All genies can fly, but I think it makes sense to restrict granting flight to only the genasi who have a connection to the Plane of Air because they're not getting the full power of their immortal parent and thus would only need a strong connection to air magic for the ability.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
*shrug*
If you average out all of the genies' fly speeds, you get 60 feet. If you then halve that for their genasi children, that's 30 feet. It's not a big deal, anyway.
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Genasi are my favourite race by far. The oddest thing I found about them is that only Fire and Water have resistances - the other two don't. I never understood why. Also - Water gets 4 features that aren't ASI - but Earth only gets two?
It just feels really uneven.
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I agree completely. Also, the two features that the Earth Genasi gets are very weak, while all of the Water Genasi's features are decently useful.
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Well - Pass Without Trace is amazing - but it is only for 1 hour once per day so it's fairly limiting. And the Water Genasi features are really situational - I mean - if you're not in an aquatic campaign you might never get any use out of any of their features. But yea - that all adds to their problem in my opinion.
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It is a good spell, but other spellcasters that get to cast 2nd level spells typically also get the typical racial spellcasting layout, with a cantrip at level one, 1st level spell once a day at level 3, and second level spell once a day at 5th level. I also don't think Pass without Trace fits Earth Genasi that well.
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I really like your version, even though it may be a bit op? Not really sure.
I think that for the normal one, it depends a lot on the sub race you choose. Fire is very good, water and air can both be somewhat situational, but are also great. Earth though... Does feel under whelming.
Not really sure what i'd, do, I would take me a while to think is something.
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
personally, I would just give each of the Genasi their "control element" cantrip. Earth getting Mold Earth, Water getting Shape Water, Air getting Gust, Fire getting Control Flames. Maybe a couple other 1/day casts like Earth getting catapult (for slinging a stone at someone), Water getting Frost Fingers (if Wizards would reprint it), Air... dunno what air would get.
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Fog Cloud?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I suppose that would work.
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Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I don't think the +1 cha makes sense. Anyway, I heard floating racial ability score improvements are coming with Tasha's and if they do, it won't really matter anymore.
Flying speed? I get why you'd say that, but I think it's wrong. True, they are children of genies, but their anatomy is that of a human (or whatever other race their other parents are), pretty much.
Looking realistically, these things aren't done by averages. It's either a dominant or recessive gene, and it seems like 5e chose that darkvision is a recessive gene. Now, I do agree that fire genasi look stronger than the others, but I don't think everyone should have darkvision.
So, here are MY suggestions:
First: No changes to the Genasi as a race, only to subraces.
Air:
Ability scores as they are now. Spell list as you put it and resistance to lightning damage as you put it. Either 10 ft. of flying speed or jump distance and height doubled.
Fire:
Stay the same as they are. Fire Genasi are good, the problem is that the others are weaker.
Earth:
Spell list as you put it. Resistance to poison instead of acid. ASI as they are now. Instead of the flying speed and darkvision you gave them, they get tremorsense with a range of 20 ft.
Water:
Stays as they are now.
Also no expanded spell list.
I could reason my changes/unchanged stuff but I'm too lazy to do it now. Tbh, even after removing most of what you added, I still think they're strong.
Varielky
I definitely agree that they are underpowered. Compare a water genasi to a sea elf or triton and they are just straight-up worse. It just feels very haphazard and unfinished.
I'd add a feature or two to the base that all the subraces get (like darkvision and maybe a skill proficiency like Arcana) and then increase their spellcasting a bit - at the least, they should all get the cantrip that manipulates their respective element and probably a level 1 daily spell in addition to what they get now. Earth and Air both need an additional thing roughly equivalent to the resistances Fire and Water get. Might be neat to have a Hellish Rebuke type reaction where once a day they can blast an enemy with their element when they get hit.
I'm not into the fly speed idea, but I prefer to use genasi lore from previous editions as the genie thing just doesn't do it for me and Levitate covers flying for Air. And I don't like their stat bonuses but I'm pretty sure Tasha's will fix that.
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(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
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(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm