I own the book. I spent the last hour reading it. I did skim parts of it.
90% of the book is Subclasses we've already seen, so a good part of it is paying to hold onto content you already had access to. I'm not really that upset about that. Actually, I'm not upset, but it is a bit meh.
Group patrons is fine, but there aren't any mechanics. I could have come up with that pretty much by myself had my players been like "Oh let's work for a thieves guild." It's okay and yeah, when reading it I had an idea, but it's... meh.
The magic items are probably better if I cared about spell casters. Most of them seemed to be replicating spell effects. That's fine, but it doesn't really inspire. Which is ironic because when I read about the cloak of billowing it captured my imagination.
Ch4 is ... ridiculous. It's like "you shouldn't be a jerk." I don't need to be told not to use my cellphone at the table or that I should tell my players if I decide to use house rules. And chapter 4 is where this book stings. Yes, sidekicks are good rule inclusions and the region rules are really interesting. Monster parleying is ... good, especially for new players who never really thought about that. But remember Xanathar's? It was the first book I bought for 5E. That's the gold standard for D&D books, to be honest. This book was compared so much to Xanathars and it ... isn't. It's not great. It's sufficient. I don't feel like I was cheated. But it's just on the acceptable side of mediocre. I'm disappointed by the utter lack of fresh content. Adding a tonne of subclasses isn't fresh. They don't fundamentally change the experience, they just add a few different abilities per character.
I feel like all of the subclasses are actually the problem. They say the book is one of the longest sourcebooks and yeah, I can believe it . I also believe they got all of those classes in, saw it was how many hundred pages and then realised they didn't have any space for actual content.
The puzzles are great though. But the rest of the book should have been that level of quality as well. It should have been things that made us go "wow, I never really thought about playing D&D like that" or "Oh yeah, I was thinking about how you'd implement that in the game." It really just feels that they have to publish X books a year and this one was just not ready to come out of the over yet.
And then there are lots of people here screaming for new subclasses on this site, claiming that they cannot play the game because it does not support their cool character concepts. Sigh, I guess that the ones presented are just not powerful enough to generate interest...
As for chapter 4, the thing is that some of these things go without saying for a lot of people, but I also see so many posts here from DMs having problems of one sort or another that could simply be solved by a good session 0, for example, and by people not being jerks.
They didn't add anything new though really, the subclasses were already usable for free in their UA form, all this has done is remove the ability to play those subclasses unless you buy the new book. It hasn't actually added anything of significance. A few wording tweaks here and there for spells, and the previously available feats are now also pay to use. It's a huge book to just basically have the character creation process changed, and to give us a lecture on how to play our games. Sadly the people who most need the 'Don't be a jerk' lecture are the people who won't buy or read it anyway so the whole thing is a pointless money grab exercise.
I must agree that it seems less interesting than I expected. Everything is OK, but nothing screams "Wow!"
WRT Subclasses brought in from UA, the only benefit I can see is that they are now in an official book. Some DMs/groups, I know, only allow officially-published material, or are hesitant to use content which hasn't been.
I almost feel like I've wasted my money, buying it on here. There are a few interesting bits which I may use, but nothing which is worth the cost of the book. Oh well...
The new subclasses are cool but some seem a bit op/up. Variant features seem to have been scaled back which sucks. There is a crazy amount of potential for variant features and they've just not capitalised on it. New feats are ok, though pity the tracker one didn't make it in.
Then there is the old sorcerer subclasses still being awful and not getting origin spells, an entire section of the book telling you to be a decent human at the table, a ton of reprinted stuff.
And the bit about the magic customisation specifically being against tweaking spell damage types irks me. Lots of DM's tweak spell damage types for their players. My fire genasi EK has shocking grasp and witch bolt permanently turned into fire damage to suit the concept. And I'm worried that this section is going to scare away a lot of DM's which previously allowed this.
It is a meh book. It does has a few cool features in it but it's largely bland. The puzzles are good. The magic item section is pretty much just magical items for magic-users and the same item re-used over again with different special effects for each one. None of it really made me go "wow awesome" but "that's kinda neat I suppose..."
The tattoos would come in handy but there's always a neat homebrew book out there that does the same thing and actually has more flare to it.
Can we please get a realty check as to companies are actually living ?
TBF you're right. UA is playtest material for market research. AFAIK WotC have spent time and money researching, writing and testing it before it even gets to UA. During UA they need to collate feedback from everyone and figure out what, if anything, needs changing. A significant amount of work has gone into them, but they were provided to us free of charge in exchange for us testing them. Now is the point WotC need to recover their investment.
I think part of the problem, though, is that Tasha's has been heavily hyped. People have been looking forward to it for quite a while, but now it is out it doesn't seem like there is anything particularly special in there (from just reading it at least). Some may love it, some will find exactly what they need to fit their character concept, some may find things as time goes on which considerably enhance their games. However, right now, it doesn't live up to the hype IMHO.
Saying all this, I'm currently playing a level 2 barb. I was going to take the Bear Totem at L3, but I am seriously contemplating Wild Magic now. I know it was available on UA before, but I never really looked at it due to not wanting the hassle of discussing UA with the other DM (we share DM duties) or the rest of the group. Now that it's official, I've read it properly and I'm very interested.
I think part of the issue is Tasha's is trying to copy the tried and true Xanathar's formula, when in reality it's not coming out into the same atmosphere as Xanathar's did.
Xanathar's was still riding the hype of 5e's release, where we still didn't have many subclasses and everything was still a bit new and unknown. Tasha's is coming out and trying to use the same formula but people aren't wanting the same thing anymore. Sure the new subclasses are nice, but the most hyped parts (class features and feats) got heavily scaled back. Certain classes still have glaring flaws which haven't been addressed despite this being the perfect opportunity. People who want more content and options are now jumping ship to Pathfinder 2e, and if my group wasn't stuck on DnD 5e I'd have done the same.
Is this all 5e will be from now until forever? Every three years just put out some more subclasses and be done with it?
I love Pathfinder, but it too has many flaws. What I love about DnD 5e is how simple it is. You can take a group of complete newbies through character creation and into an adventure in under an hour. It is quick and easy to play, experienced players can get a new character made up in 10 minutes. Pathfinder whilst having far more options and abilities and classes etc is fantastic for character creation and building themes but it takes far longer to get going, there are far more rules and things for players and story tellers to remember. They are the same but also very different games with a different audience in mind.
That said, I really don't think that the new book brings much to the table, most of the new subclasses are really bland, they don't excite me or make me want to play them. The spell changes and feats are again okay, but really not that great. I might be okay with paying for a quality hardback with great art, but for a couple of online only website pages, without even a pdf it is massively over priced and just doesn't deliver.
Personally, I would prefer it if WotC stopped making the "big books" and released each bit of content for a reasonable price as soon as it is ready. Most of the content in Tasha's has probably been ready to go for months, and could have been released in several smaller (cheaper) instalments. That way, there's less hype but a more continuous flow of new material.
Unfortunately, I think that they do "big books" because that brings in the "big bucks" (and most of the reason for that is the hype around a new book).
The Hype was the issue and then some of the CVUA has been severly gutted (Spell versatility) and they took more away than they added (from what was in the UA)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I just don't like one thing - JC told us about some features in videos with Todd and there are not there. No real spell versatility, no invocations for pact of the blade.
Also I think that no origin spells for old sorcerer sublasses is a mistake. It makes imbalance in just one class (I know, hexblade, I'm aware).
Ranger and this new feature requiring concentration... again.
I think I was just too hyped about it and I just need to cool down. Overall I don't use ua that much so there's a lot of new content for me.
Honestly my biggest gripe with it is the spell wrought tattoo's, more specifically the fact that they fade away after one use. I can accept the leveled spells fading but even the cantrips fade after one use. I would have been much happier if they had been only so many uses per day/rest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
Honestly my biggest gripe with it is the spell wrought tattoo's, more specifically the fact that they fade away after one use. I can accept the leveled spells fading but even the cantrips fade after one use. I would have been much happier if they had been only so many uses per day/rest.
Yeah thats and Odd choice...
A Once per Long Rest kinda deal would have been good...
Now depending on the Tier of the spells in the Tattoo's, they are common/uncommon, so you can buy a bulk of these needles if you wich.
But in the end you'll look like an heroin addict, using needles to get his "Power Fix"...
*Cue DAve CHappel crack head addict skit* "Do you have any more of those,... Tattoo Needles?..."
with the cantrips I feel as though they should just act as a regular cantrip or be a few time per short rest since excluding eldritch blast most cantrips aren't that powerful or completely useless in combat.
Is anyone else getting sick of them bringing out loads of different books with basically the same/similar content.
Why can't they bring out a Part 2 players handbook and Part 2 DMG. rather than splitting all the information into several books. Where players can see things they aren't meant to see.
I think they should stop doing UA if they’re just going to show us something good, and then rip it in half and smear feces all over whatever’s left before publishing it.
I own the book. I spent the last hour reading it. I did skim parts of it.
90% of the book is Subclasses we've already seen, so a good part of it is paying to hold onto content you already had access to. I'm not really that upset about that. Actually, I'm not upset, but it is a bit meh.
Group patrons is fine, but there aren't any mechanics. I could have come up with that pretty much by myself had my players been like "Oh let's work for a thieves guild." It's okay and yeah, when reading it I had an idea, but it's... meh.
The magic items are probably better if I cared about spell casters. Most of them seemed to be replicating spell effects. That's fine, but it doesn't really inspire. Which is ironic because when I read about the cloak of billowing it captured my imagination.
Ch4 is ... ridiculous. It's like "you shouldn't be a jerk." I don't need to be told not to use my cellphone at the table or that I should tell my players if I decide to use house rules. And chapter 4 is where this book stings. Yes, sidekicks are good rule inclusions and the region rules are really interesting. Monster parleying is ... good, especially for new players who never really thought about that. But remember Xanathar's? It was the first book I bought for 5E. That's the gold standard for D&D books, to be honest. This book was compared so much to Xanathars and it ... isn't. It's not great. It's sufficient. I don't feel like I was cheated. But it's just on the acceptable side of mediocre. I'm disappointed by the utter lack of fresh content. Adding a tonne of subclasses isn't fresh. They don't fundamentally change the experience, they just add a few different abilities per character.
I feel like all of the subclasses are actually the problem. They say the book is one of the longest sourcebooks and yeah, I can believe it . I also believe they got all of those classes in, saw it was how many hundred pages and then realised they didn't have any space for actual content.
The puzzles are great though. But the rest of the book should have been that level of quality as well. It should have been things that made us go "wow, I never really thought about playing D&D like that" or "Oh yeah, I was thinking about how you'd implement that in the game." It really just feels that they have to publish X books a year and this one was just not ready to come out of the over yet.
Not only is Group Patrons nothing special .... it is also reprinted content (the same thing is in the Eberron book).
They didn't add anything new though really, the subclasses were already usable for free in their UA form, all this has done is remove the ability to play those subclasses unless you buy the new book. It hasn't actually added anything of significance. A few wording tweaks here and there for spells, and the previously available feats are now also pay to use. It's a huge book to just basically have the character creation process changed, and to give us a lecture on how to play our games. Sadly the people who most need the 'Don't be a jerk' lecture are the people who won't buy or read it anyway so the whole thing is a pointless money grab exercise.
I must agree that it seems less interesting than I expected. Everything is OK, but nothing screams "Wow!"
WRT Subclasses brought in from UA, the only benefit I can see is that they are now in an official book. Some DMs/groups, I know, only allow officially-published material, or are hesitant to use content which hasn't been.
I almost feel like I've wasted my money, buying it on here. There are a few interesting bits which I may use, but nothing which is worth the cost of the book. Oh well...
Gotta say it's pretty meh.
The new subclasses are cool but some seem a bit op/up. Variant features seem to have been scaled back which sucks. There is a crazy amount of potential for variant features and they've just not capitalised on it. New feats are ok, though pity the tracker one didn't make it in.
Then there is the old sorcerer subclasses still being awful and not getting origin spells, an entire section of the book telling you to be a decent human at the table, a ton of reprinted stuff.
And the bit about the magic customisation specifically being against tweaking spell damage types irks me. Lots of DM's tweak spell damage types for their players. My fire genasi EK has shocking grasp and witch bolt permanently turned into fire damage to suit the concept. And I'm worried that this section is going to scare away a lot of DM's which previously allowed this.
It is a meh book. It does has a few cool features in it but it's largely bland. The puzzles are good. The magic item section is pretty much just magical items for magic-users and the same item re-used over again with different special effects for each one. None of it really made me go "wow awesome" but "that's kinda neat I suppose..."
The tattoos would come in handy but there's always a neat homebrew book out there that does the same thing and actually has more flare to it.
Overall, I think I kinda wasted my money.
TBF you're right. UA is playtest material for market research. AFAIK WotC have spent time and money researching, writing and testing it before it even gets to UA. During UA they need to collate feedback from everyone and figure out what, if anything, needs changing. A significant amount of work has gone into them, but they were provided to us free of charge in exchange for us testing them. Now is the point WotC need to recover their investment.
I think part of the problem, though, is that Tasha's has been heavily hyped. People have been looking forward to it for quite a while, but now it is out it doesn't seem like there is anything particularly special in there (from just reading it at least). Some may love it, some will find exactly what they need to fit their character concept, some may find things as time goes on which considerably enhance their games. However, right now, it doesn't live up to the hype IMHO.
Saying all this, I'm currently playing a level 2 barb. I was going to take the Bear Totem at L3, but I am seriously contemplating Wild Magic now. I know it was available on UA before, but I never really looked at it due to not wanting the hassle of discussing UA with the other DM (we share DM duties) or the rest of the group. Now that it's official, I've read it properly and I'm very interested.
I think part of the issue is Tasha's is trying to copy the tried and true Xanathar's formula, when in reality it's not coming out into the same atmosphere as Xanathar's did.
Xanathar's was still riding the hype of 5e's release, where we still didn't have many subclasses and everything was still a bit new and unknown. Tasha's is coming out and trying to use the same formula but people aren't wanting the same thing anymore. Sure the new subclasses are nice, but the most hyped parts (class features and feats) got heavily scaled back. Certain classes still have glaring flaws which haven't been addressed despite this being the perfect opportunity. People who want more content and options are now jumping ship to Pathfinder 2e, and if my group wasn't stuck on DnD 5e I'd have done the same.
Is this all 5e will be from now until forever? Every three years just put out some more subclasses and be done with it?
Well, it’s worse than I expected. It isn’t “meh” it’s more “**** you Jeremy Crawford, you suck.”
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I love Pathfinder, but it too has many flaws. What I love about DnD 5e is how simple it is. You can take a group of complete newbies through character creation and into an adventure in under an hour. It is quick and easy to play, experienced players can get a new character made up in 10 minutes. Pathfinder whilst having far more options and abilities and classes etc is fantastic for character creation and building themes but it takes far longer to get going, there are far more rules and things for players and story tellers to remember. They are the same but also very different games with a different audience in mind.
That said, I really don't think that the new book brings much to the table, most of the new subclasses are really bland, they don't excite me or make me want to play them. The spell changes and feats are again okay, but really not that great. I might be okay with paying for a quality hardback with great art, but for a couple of online only website pages, without even a pdf it is massively over priced and just doesn't deliver.
Personally, I would prefer it if WotC stopped making the "big books" and released each bit of content for a reasonable price as soon as it is ready. Most of the content in Tasha's has probably been ready to go for months, and could have been released in several smaller (cheaper) instalments. That way, there's less hype but a more continuous flow of new material.
Unfortunately, I think that they do "big books" because that brings in the "big bucks" (and most of the reason for that is the hype around a new book).
Fair enough. I'll admit, I'm still very new to DnD and haven't the attachment to the books. I don't really mind either way.
The Hype was the issue and then some of the CVUA has been severly gutted (Spell versatility) and they took more away than they added (from what was in the UA)
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I just don't like one thing - JC told us about some features in videos with Todd and there are not there. No real spell versatility, no invocations for pact of the blade.
Also I think that no origin spells for old sorcerer sublasses is a mistake. It makes imbalance in just one class (I know, hexblade, I'm aware).
Ranger and this new feature requiring concentration... again.
I think I was just too hyped about it and I just need to cool down. Overall I don't use ua that much so there's a lot of new content for me.
Honestly my biggest gripe with it is the spell wrought tattoo's, more specifically the fact that they fade away after one use. I can accept the leveled spells fading but even the cantrips fade after one use. I would have been much happier if they had been only so many uses per day/rest.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
Yeah thats and Odd choice...
A Once per Long Rest kinda deal would have been good...
Now depending on the Tier of the spells in the Tattoo's, they are common/uncommon, so you can buy a bulk of these needles if you wich.
But in the end you'll look like an heroin addict, using needles to get his "Power Fix"...
*Cue DAve CHappel crack head addict skit* "Do you have any more of those,... Tattoo Needles?..."
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
with the cantrips I feel as though they should just act as a regular cantrip or be a few time per short rest since excluding eldritch blast most cantrips aren't that powerful or completely useless in combat.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
Is anyone else getting sick of them bringing out loads of different books with basically the same/similar content.
Why can't they bring out a Part 2 players handbook and Part 2 DMG. rather than splitting all the information into several books. Where players can see things they aren't meant to see.
I like it. I think complaining that it contains UA content is ignorant of what UA is.
I think Wizards should probably stop doing UA if this is how people react to it being published.
I think they should stop doing UA if they’re just going to show us something good, and then rip it in half and smear feces all over whatever’s left before publishing it.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting