I'm playing with someone having Tasha's now and we all decided to take Custom lineage but then one decided to have a dragonborn grampa and asked if his feat can be a racial feat?
The Gm accepted but we are still wondering if the feat can be a racial or a class feat
You can be a Custom lineage of any race. If you want to get a dragonborn racial feat than you would have to be a Custom Lineage Dragonborn, not a Custom Lineage Human.
Basically this means you look like a dragonborn, not a human.
I'm playing with someone having Tasha's now and we all decided to take Custom lineage but then one decided to have a dragonborn grampa and asked if his feat can be a racial feat?
The Gm accepted but we are still wondering if the feat can be a racial or a class feat
It can be any feat allowed by the DM. There is no RAW restriction against Racial feats, but the DM may have their own restrictions.
I'm assuming the character wants Dragon Fear, because I can't see why someone would want to do Dragon Hide without being actual Dragonborn.
Some issues there though, Dragonfear already presumes the character has a breath weapon. That said, I'd allow characters who wanted a draconic lineage in their deep past (and heck I'd reskin this for fiends, and other plane touched lineages) to be able to radiate "menace" without being full blooded. Dragon Fear in Dragonlance, where I first came across the concept, wasn't really tied to breath records, so having a sort of threatening aura ready to deploy seems fine without having to breath it out. So as a DM, I'd be ok with it if I thought it added something to the game. Let's remember feats are technically optional in the game, just like custom lineage.
All that said, if you're using D&D Beyond to make the character, the feat is not going to present as an option unless you choose Dragonborn. To get it onto a non Dragonborn character, you'll have to homebrew a copy and strip off the Dragonborn pre-requisite. For utility sake I would just rename it something like "frightful legacy", that way it you can patch it onto anyone who wants to claim some plane touched legacy without playing a plane touched or Dragonborn that gives them the ability to make the room go quiet and uncomfortable.
As for Variant Human, keep in mind the variant human predates the introduction of custom lineage. The spirit behind variant human is not supposed to be a human outside human PC norms, just a different way to mechanically address human versatility instead of the +1 to all ability scores, in other words an option to give players more versatility in expressing their human characters versatility, Given that, I don't think the intention was to open up variant humans to non human feats. But saying that, since we're talking more about custom lineage (i.e. there's some non human intervention in this character's family tree) I'd be open to entertaining racial feats ... with the understanding again that those feats will need to be put through homebrew to be accessible on the character builder here.
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them:
So you might look like dragonborn, but your race is "custom lineage" not a dragonborn.
Your character can look like however you want your character to look like.
If you want your character to visually exhibit draconic traits, great. Maybe be a full-on dragon with a tail. Maybe be a human with snake eyes, solid irises with slit pupils.
According to Tashas, race prerequisites no longer exist. Any race can take any feat.
Can you point to a specific chapter that states that?
Laugh out loud! Even the quote that you just cited says: "Giving you full control" over how your characters origins shaped them. Where a custom lineage grants +2 ability, feat, and darkvision, the feat can be any feat of any race.
Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify.
This is just you interpetation that is not mentioned anywhere:
the feat can be any feat of any race.
As for the "full control" there are already some limits on it (the list of items that you can customize). It just means, that you can make up the fluff behind your race, but it is not treated as any other race (mechanics-wise) and nowhere does it state that feats no longer have race prerequsites.
I am under the impression that similar to how a core race can swap out abilities and proficiencies, the core race can also take any race-related feat. Unfortunately, the customization in Tashas only mentions race customization at level 1, and fails to address race customization at higher levels when choosing feats.
My impression comes from what designers have said about wanting removing any racist paradigms for the mechanics of the game.
For example, a variant human should be able to choose one of the race feats in Xanathars, such as the Misty Step feat of Eladrin and High Elf. But I dont see explicit permission, even tho there is implicit permission to give the player "full control".
Of course, the DM can do whatever is appropriate for a setting, and the DM can create or modify a core race according the core rules in the Dungeon Masters Guide. What makes Tashas different is, the player decides ones own character concept, including how the player envisions the race of the character.
I view the player as playing the hero as a character, and the DM as playing the world as a kind of character. The player must have as much agency and control over the character concept of the hero as possible. Likewise, the DM must have as much agency and control over the world as possible. There will be overlaps where the character concept has world implications, and viceversa, and the player and DM need to negotiate a mutual understanding.
I want clarification from the designers about selecting race feats. For now, it seems, the DM can officially do it, but the player needs the permission from the DM to do it. Currently, only the DM seems to have the agency to do this.
Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify.
This is just you interpetation that is not mentioned anywhere:
the feat can be any feat of any race.
As for the "full control" there are already some limits on it (the list of items that you can customize). It just means, that you can make up the fluff behind your race, but it is not treated as any other race (mechanics-wise) and nowhere does it state that feats no longer have race prerequsites.
In the context of Custom Lineage, "full control" means the player can invent a new race. The feats that are appropriate to this Custom Lineage are whatever the player wants for the concept.
"Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify."
Qualifying for a feat includes "prerequisites" such as "Strength 13 or higher", "proficiency with light armor", "proficiency with a martial weapon", "spell casting" and so on. All of these prerequisites still apply.
As far as I can tell, the only feats that would open up are the race feats in Xanathars. But I cant find explicit permission for these race feats. The DM, of course, can do it.
There are two mechanics regarding the race customization (and both of them are optional rules btw, which means you need DMs permission):
1. Customizing the existing Race: You pick existing race and reshuffle the ASIs, proficiencies , languages. You are still considered the original race, so you can pick their feats and so on. (And just btw, this is pretty broken and lazily designed in my opinion - for example, try picking mountain dwarf wizard and see how many useful bonuses you get from it)
2. Custom Lineage: this is the grey box we have talked about before. This is pretty much "official homebrew template". Wanna play Smurf? Pick the grey box, wanna have half-dwarf/half-elf? Pick the grey box. You create a new custom race this way , with the mechanics described in the box, but you are not considered (I base this on the bolded statement from comment #7) to be member of any official race (mechanics wise; fluff wise do whatever you want ofc).
As for removing racist paradigms, this is probably more about removing Drows being evil (they are much more allignment-fluid in Eberron for example), monster races being dumb and so on. I don't think that Human not being able to pick dragon hide feat qualifies for that.
All of this can of course be changed by your DM, but unless we talk about what is writtten this discussion is pointless (do whatever works at you table).
There are two mechanics regarding the race customization (and both of them are optional rules btw, which means you need DMs permission):
1. Customizing the existing Race: You pick existing race and reshuffle the ASIs, proficiencies , languages. You are still considered the original race, so you can pick their feats and so on. (And just btw, this is pretty broken and lazily designed in my opinion - for example, try picking mountain dwarf wizard and see how many useful bonuses you get from it)
2. Custom Lineage: this is the grey box we have talked about before. This is pretty much "official homebrew template". Wanna play Smurf? Pick the grey box, wanna have half-dwarf/half-elf? Pick the grey box. You create a new custom race this way , with the mechanics described in the box, but you are not considered (I base this on the bolded statement from comment #7) to be member of any official race (mechanics wise; fluff wise do whatever you want ofc).
That is moreorless how I see it too.
If you are using the Custom Lineage, then you pick whatever race feats you want.
But if you are customizing a core race, the rules dont mention anything about race feats.
Even so, a DM can feel the spirit of the rules in Tashas, thus encourage the players to be creative and to personalize their character with a concept that they can invest themselves in.
At first glance, Custom Lineage looks underpowered compared to what the core races in the Players Handbook get. However, the access to one feat is extremely versatile and flavorful. You can for example choose a halffeat, thus get +2 ability score, +1 ability score, halffeat, and darkvision. And a DM and a player can create a new feat! Or combine two halffeats. Thus, the kinds of race traits that are available for a Custom Lineage can represent almost any race concept.
I have been experimenting with Custom Lineage. Even when I push it to its limit, it still balances with the Players Handbook races. Indeed, the Half Elf and some of the PH subraces remain more powerful.
Tashas makes an emphatic point to remove racism from the Bladesinger Wizard. Previously, only the elf race could take this option. But now every race has access to this elf subclass.
Similarly, the race feats that are racist, should likewise open access to any race who wants to take the feat.
I'm playing with someone having Tasha's now and we all decided to take Custom lineage but then one decided to have a dragonborn grampa and asked if his feat can be a racial feat?
The Gm accepted but we are still wondering if the feat can be a racial or a class feat
You can be a Custom lineage of any race. If you want to get a dragonborn racial feat than you would have to be a Custom Lineage Dragonborn, not a Custom Lineage Human.
Basically this means you look like a dragonborn, not a human.
It can be any feat allowed by the DM. There is no RAW restriction against Racial feats, but the DM may have their own restrictions.
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The RAW says you must be a member of the race to take a racial feat. That is what the words 'Prerequisite' means.
I'm assuming the character wants Dragon Fear, because I can't see why someone would want to do Dragon Hide without being actual Dragonborn.
Some issues there though, Dragonfear already presumes the character has a breath weapon. That said, I'd allow characters who wanted a draconic lineage in their deep past (and heck I'd reskin this for fiends, and other plane touched lineages) to be able to radiate "menace" without being full blooded. Dragon Fear in Dragonlance, where I first came across the concept, wasn't really tied to breath records, so having a sort of threatening aura ready to deploy seems fine without having to breath it out. So as a DM, I'd be ok with it if I thought it added something to the game. Let's remember feats are technically optional in the game, just like custom lineage.
All that said, if you're using D&D Beyond to make the character, the feat is not going to present as an option unless you choose Dragonborn. To get it onto a non Dragonborn character, you'll have to homebrew a copy and strip off the Dragonborn pre-requisite. For utility sake I would just rename it something like "frightful legacy", that way it you can patch it onto anyone who wants to claim some plane touched legacy without playing a plane touched or Dragonborn that gives them the ability to make the room go quiet and uncomfortable.
As for Variant Human, keep in mind the variant human predates the introduction of custom lineage. The spirit behind variant human is not supposed to be a human outside human PC norms, just a different way to mechanically address human versatility instead of the +1 to all ability scores, in other words an option to give players more versatility in expressing their human characters versatility, Given that, I don't think the intention was to open up variant humans to non human feats. But saying that, since we're talking more about custom lineage (i.e. there's some non human intervention in this character's family tree) I'd be open to entertaining racial feats ... with the understanding again that those feats will need to be put through homebrew to be accessible on the character builder here.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yes, but if they’re a custom lineage Dragonborn, then they’re Dragonborn, and can take Dragonborn feats. Right?
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Don't think so. From Tashas custom lineage box:
So you might look like dragonborn, but your race is "custom lineage" not a dragonborn.
According to Tashas, race prerequisites no longer exist. Any race can take any feat.
If a player wants a character concept that has a dragon ancestor? No problem. Sounds awesome! Follow your bliss!
he / him
Your character can look like however you want your character to look like.
If you want your character to visually exhibit draconic traits, great. Maybe be a full-on dragon with a tail. Maybe be a human with snake eyes, solid irises with slit pupils.
he / him
Can you point to a specific chapter that states that?
Laugh out loud! Even the quote that you just cited says: "Giving you full control" over how your characters origins shaped them. Where a custom lineage grants +2 ability, feat, and darkvision, the feat can be any feat of any race.
he / him
This is from Tasha:
This is just you interpetation that is not mentioned anywhere:
As for the "full control" there are already some limits on it (the list of items that you can customize). It just means, that you can make up the fluff behind your race, but it is not treated as any other race (mechanics-wise) and nowhere does it state that feats no longer have race prerequsites.
I am under the impression that similar to how a core race can swap out abilities and proficiencies, the core race can also take any race-related feat. Unfortunately, the customization in Tashas only mentions race customization at level 1, and fails to address race customization at higher levels when choosing feats.
My impression comes from what designers have said about wanting removing any racist paradigms for the mechanics of the game.
For example, a variant human should be able to choose one of the race feats in Xanathars, such as the Misty Step feat of Eladrin and High Elf. But I dont see explicit permission, even tho there is implicit permission to give the player "full control".
Of course, the DM can do whatever is appropriate for a setting, and the DM can create or modify a core race according the core rules in the Dungeon Masters Guide. What makes Tashas different is, the player decides ones own character concept, including how the player envisions the race of the character.
I view the player as playing the hero as a character, and the DM as playing the world as a kind of character. The player must have as much agency and control over the character concept of the hero as possible. Likewise, the DM must have as much agency and control over the world as possible. There will be overlaps where the character concept has world implications, and viceversa, and the player and DM need to negotiate a mutual understanding.
I want clarification from the designers about selecting race feats. For now, it seems, the DM can officially do it, but the player needs the permission from the DM to do it. Currently, only the DM seems to have the agency to do this.
he / him
In the context of Custom Lineage, "full control" means the player can invent a new race. The feats that are appropriate to this Custom Lineage are whatever the player wants for the concept.
"Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify."
Qualifying for a feat includes "prerequisites" such as "Strength 13 or higher", "proficiency with light armor", "proficiency with a martial weapon", "spell casting" and so on. All of these prerequisites still apply.
As far as I can tell, the only feats that would open up are the race feats in Xanathars. But I cant find explicit permission for these race feats. The DM, of course, can do it.
he / him
There are two mechanics regarding the race customization (and both of them are optional rules btw, which means you need DMs permission):
1. Customizing the existing Race: You pick existing race and reshuffle the ASIs, proficiencies , languages. You are still considered the original race, so you can pick their feats and so on. (And just btw, this is pretty broken and lazily designed in my opinion - for example, try picking mountain dwarf wizard and see how many useful bonuses you get from it)
2. Custom Lineage: this is the grey box we have talked about before. This is pretty much "official homebrew template". Wanna play Smurf? Pick the grey box, wanna have half-dwarf/half-elf? Pick the grey box. You create a new custom race this way , with the mechanics described in the box, but you are not considered (I base this on the bolded statement from comment #7) to be member of any official race (mechanics wise; fluff wise do whatever you want ofc).
As for removing racist paradigms, this is probably more about removing Drows being evil (they are much more allignment-fluid in Eberron for example), monster races being dumb and so on. I don't think that Human not being able to pick dragon hide feat qualifies for that.
All of this can of course be changed by your DM, but unless we talk about what is writtten this discussion is pointless (do whatever works at you table).
Edit: I have not read #14 at when I wrote this
That is moreorless how I see it too.
If you are using the Custom Lineage, then you pick whatever race feats you want.
But if you are customizing a core race, the rules dont mention anything about race feats.
he / him
Even so, a DM can feel the spirit of the rules in Tashas, thus encourage the players to be creative and to personalize their character with a concept that they can invest themselves in.
he / him
I am very fond of the Custom Lineage rules.
At first glance, Custom Lineage looks underpowered compared to what the core races in the Players Handbook get. However, the access to one feat is extremely versatile and flavorful. You can for example choose a halffeat, thus get +2 ability score, +1 ability score, halffeat, and darkvision. And a DM and a player can create a new feat! Or combine two halffeats. Thus, the kinds of race traits that are available for a Custom Lineage can represent almost any race concept.
I have been experimenting with Custom Lineage. Even when I push it to its limit, it still balances with the Players Handbook races. Indeed, the Half Elf and some of the PH subraces remain more powerful.
he / him
Talking about the spirit of the rules.
Tashas makes an emphatic point to remove racism from the Bladesinger Wizard. Previously, only the elf race could take this option. But now every race has access to this elf subclass.
Similarly, the race feats that are racist, should likewise open access to any race who wants to take the feat.
he / him
Custom Lineage: characters who are part elf can get the Elven Accuracy Feat? Can customs use racial feats if it falls in line with their backstory? | Sage Advice D&D