As far as I can tell, 4e only works better if you REALLY like all the details of combat (like who stands where, stuff like that). Otherwise the 5e rules are a lot easier to figure out. But if you like that kinda thing, go for it.
Everyone else: Any particular reason why getting a 4e game up would be hard? I mean, why would people not want to play? (Other than starting to play after 5e came out and not knowing the rules.)
Not the current edition is one reason. I played 4e while it was out, and I can honestly say that the main reason why my group will never play 4e again is because, without those online resources, actually being able to reference things, know what to use, etc... The game is a pain in the butt. You couldn't even play a sorcerer, druid or monk out of the gate, so even being able to play a classic class required multiple books beyond the core three. And that's not counting a basic expansion in the form of the Arcane/Martial/Primal/etc books.
Who has the time to be able to constantly reference things across several books while at the table anymore?
So 3e fans dive bombed 4e into non-existance... wow
To be fair, there were lots of criticisms of 4e that had nothing to do with 3e (or any previous editions of D&D). Putting aside the edition warring, 4e had potential, but the people in charge of it also made a lot of decisions that pissed people off that had nothing to do with the game not being like 3e.
I think the Feywild and the Shadowfell came out of 4e.
Gygax had Shadowland in the first Unearthed Arcana back in 1985 (I think, might be off by a year), and it's been around under various names since. I think there were some references to the Feywild at the end of 3E as well. 4E formalized the whole deal with the Primordials tearing the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild from the Material Plane though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
4e was a fun time, even if I am from the time before hardbound books... the red box was GLORIOUS! The "anyone can do something useful in combat at any time" was a great approach to where 3(.5)E had gone. The biggest problem we had with it was that it felt like a tactical game before there were VTTs to make it really shine. I think if we had the tools now and 4e came out and had good support, it would be a blast on Roll20. Some good modules too... but yes, it's time was brief. I traded in most of my books when the new edition came out, but I wish I had kept some of them. There was a lot of flavor in a lot of the character options that is missing in 5e.
Everyone else: Any particular reason why getting a 4e game up would be hard? I mean, why would people not want to play? (Other than starting to play after 5e came out and not knowing the rules.)
Not the current edition is one reason. I played 4e while it was out, and I can honestly say that the main reason why my group will never play 4e again is because, without those online resources, actually being able to reference things, know what to use, etc... The game is a pain in the butt. You couldn't even play a sorcerer, druid or monk out of the gate, so even being able to play a classic class required multiple books beyond the core three. And that's not counting a basic expansion in the form of the Arcane/Martial/Primal/etc books.
Who has the time to be able to constantly reference things across several books while at the table anymore?
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
Everyone else: Any particular reason why getting a 4e game up would be hard? I mean, why would people not want to play? (Other than starting to play after 5e came out and not knowing the rules.)
Not the current edition is one reason. I played 4e while it was out, and I can honestly say that the main reason why my group will never play 4e again is because, without those online resources, actually being able to reference things, know what to use, etc... The game is a pain in the butt. You couldn't even play a sorcerer, druid or monk out of the gate, so even being able to play a classic class required multiple books beyond the core three. And that's not counting a basic expansion in the form of the Arcane/Martial/Primal/etc books.
Who has the time to be able to constantly reference things across several books while at the table anymore?
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
Personally, I enjoyed 4e a lot and there are many things that I miss from that edition. The AEDU system of combat that gave both martial and casters cool choices in combat, all the cool monster ability, greater variety of class specialization, the healing surge system, the skill challenge system, more tactical combat that promoted working with and combining abilities between teammates.
I enjoy 3.5 and 5e as well for different reason and I think all three editions can be very fun to play. To me it seems like the reason why people disliked 4e was that it was so different. However, to those saying die hard fans of 3.5 hated 4e, I’ve seen many 3.5 fans who hate 5e too and say it’s a watered down mess of an edition that has limited choices and no meat on its bare bones. I’ve also heard from fans of other TTRPG systems that hate 5e and D&D in general for being popular and making people think it’s the only TTRPG that matters despite the plethora of other systems that seem to do the media way better in their opinions. So really, there are a lot of difference in opinions.
the i do really not like 4e (too much rules and stuff too much for my little middle schooler brain to ever remember) though i took skill challenges and some of the stuff with monster making and use it in my 5e games
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
4e only really required flipping through pages to create or level up characters, after that the most convenient thing to do was to have power cards with your abilities listed on them. Unfortunately there is no standard pdf of power cards, and the character builder is no longer available from Wizards.
What I miss most about 4e was the ease of encounter building. If you had a party of 5 characters at level 5, you could just grab 5 standard level 5 monsters and you had a decent encounter. Or you could swap 2 of those standards for a level 5 elite monster, or 4 standards for a solo. For mobs, you could trade 1 standard for 4 minions. No CR, no weird discrepancy between gained experience and actual experience. It was very straightforward and easy.
One thing my group has brought into 5e from 4e is skill challenges. A very flexible and powerful mechanic for both social and exploration situations, I feel like the only reason 5e didn't keep this was because they wanted to distance themselves from 4e as much as possible.
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
4e only really required flipping through pages to create or level up characters, after that the most convenient thing to do was to have power cards with your abilities listed on them. Unfortunately there is no standard pdf of power cards, and the character builder is no longer available from Wizards.
This. It wasn't that bad, in fact quite comparable to the mounds of 3E sourcebooks. You really do need a battlegrid though, and not every online group wants that hassle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
What I miss most about 4e was the ease of encounter building. If you had a party of 5 characters at level 5, you could just grab 5 standard level 5 monsters and you had a decent encounter. Or you could swap 2 of those standards for a level 5 elite monster, or 4 standards for a solo. For mobs, you could trade 1 standard for 4 minions. No CR, no weird discrepancy between gained experience and actual experience. It was very straightforward and easy.
The system in XGTE is about that easy, though it doesn't understand encounter difficulty. While it is somewhat useful to observe 'two monsters at once are more dangerous than two monsters in succession', it's not useful enough to make the DMG system worth the trouble.
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
4e only really required flipping through pages to create or level up characters, after that the most convenient thing to do was to have power cards with your abilities listed on them. Unfortunately there is no standard pdf of power cards, and the character builder is no longer available from Wizards.
In 5E, each DM is of course free to go off into the realm of narrative, intrigue, socio-political stuff with little combat. I find 5E heading towards the opposite. Yes, DMs can houserule and design the game they want to play, but as it stands, recent options are more and more geared towards combat. The system itself - encounters per day, rest mechanics, etc., are designed around lots of combat. The recent books and options offer more ways to do cool things in combat. Most build sites, min-max, templates, etc., are based around the idea of heavy combat. If you're not focusing on combat, there aren't a lot of discussion points for characters.
This is all to say that at least 4th edition was unapologetic in saying and doing exactly what it set out to do. For my money, it still had the best combat system - navigating through rules and at the table - of any edition of D&D to date. It felt tabletop wargaming-esque, with cards, rollin' some dice, figuring out what powers to use, etc.
As I've seen lately, that's what 5E D&D is moving towards. Terrain, miniatures, combat trackers, chits, tokens, etc. A D&D table looks a lot more like Warhammer Fantasy these days than the sit on the couch, imagine stuff of old school D&D.
4E may have had other problem areas and been shallow otherwise, but it went all-in on what it was trying to do. As 5E gets more and more grey, I'm more appreciative of the black and white nature of 4E even more.
As far as I can tell, 4e only works better if you REALLY like all the details of combat (like who stands where, stuff like that). Otherwise the 5e rules are a lot easier to figure out. But if you like that kinda thing, go for it.
Not the current edition is one reason. I played 4e while it was out, and I can honestly say that the main reason why my group will never play 4e again is because, without those online resources, actually being able to reference things, know what to use, etc... The game is a pain in the butt. You couldn't even play a sorcerer, druid or monk out of the gate, so even being able to play a classic class required multiple books beyond the core three. And that's not counting a basic expansion in the form of the Arcane/Martial/Primal/etc books.
Who has the time to be able to constantly reference things across several books while at the table anymore?
To be fair, there were lots of criticisms of 4e that had nothing to do with 3e (or any previous editions of D&D). Putting aside the edition warring, 4e had potential, but the people in charge of it also made a lot of decisions that pissed people off that had nothing to do with the game not being like 3e.
Blasphemy.
4e is good for lore/location information though, at least you have that digested.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I think the Feywild and the Shadowfell came out of 4e.
Gygax had Shadowland in the first Unearthed Arcana back in 1985 (I think, might be off by a year), and it's been around under various names since. I think there were some references to the Feywild at the end of 3E as well. 4E formalized the whole deal with the Primordials tearing the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild from the Material Plane though.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
4e was a fun time, even if I am from the time before hardbound books... the red box was GLORIOUS! The "anyone can do something useful in combat at any time" was a great approach to where 3(.5)E had gone. The biggest problem we had with it was that it felt like a tactical game before there were VTTs to make it really shine. I think if we had the tools now and 4e came out and had good support, it would be a blast on Roll20. Some good modules too... but yes, it's time was brief. I traded in most of my books when the new edition came out, but I wish I had kept some of them. There was a lot of flavor in a lot of the character options that is missing in 5e.
I mean....i have most of the 5e rules that come up often memorized so you shouldnt have to be flipping through pages the whole game if you actually know the 4e rules.
It's one worse than 5e and only a half better that 3.5. Totally not worth it.
The 4e rules are harder to memorize.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
How so?
Everyone has a dozen different abilities which do this thing and then the other players can do a thing...
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Okay...yeah that would be hard
Personally, I enjoyed 4e a lot and there are many things that I miss from that edition. The AEDU system of combat that gave both martial and casters cool choices in combat, all the cool monster ability, greater variety of class specialization, the healing surge system, the skill challenge system, more tactical combat that promoted working with and combining abilities between teammates.
I enjoy 3.5 and 5e as well for different reason and I think all three editions can be very fun to play. To me it seems like the reason why people disliked 4e was that it was so different. However, to those saying die hard fans of 3.5 hated 4e, I’ve seen many 3.5 fans who hate 5e too and say it’s a watered down mess of an edition that has limited choices and no meat on its bare bones. I’ve also heard from fans of other TTRPG systems that hate 5e and D&D in general for being popular and making people think it’s the only TTRPG that matters despite the plethora of other systems that seem to do the media way better in their opinions. So really, there are a lot of difference in opinions.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
the i do really not like 4e (too much rules and stuff too much for my little middle schooler brain to ever remember) though i took skill challenges and some of the stuff with monster making and use it in my 5e games
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
4e only really required flipping through pages to create or level up characters, after that the most convenient thing to do was to have power cards with your abilities listed on them. Unfortunately there is no standard pdf of power cards, and the character builder is no longer available from Wizards.
What I miss most about 4e was the ease of encounter building. If you had a party of 5 characters at level 5, you could just grab 5 standard level 5 monsters and you had a decent encounter. Or you could swap 2 of those standards for a level 5 elite monster, or 4 standards for a solo. For mobs, you could trade 1 standard for 4 minions. No CR, no weird discrepancy between gained experience and actual experience. It was very straightforward and easy.
One thing my group has brought into 5e from 4e is skill challenges. A very flexible and powerful mechanic for both social and exploration situations, I feel like the only reason 5e didn't keep this was because they wanted to distance themselves from 4e as much as possible.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
This. It wasn't that bad, in fact quite comparable to the mounds of 3E sourcebooks. You really do need a battlegrid though, and not every online group wants that hassle.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The system in XGTE is about that easy, though it doesn't understand encounter difficulty. While it is somewhat useful to observe 'two monsters at once are more dangerous than two monsters in succession', it's not useful enough to make the DMG system worth the trouble.
http://tools.omnichron.net/dnd/pow.html you could make your own with this...
In 5E, each DM is of course free to go off into the realm of narrative, intrigue, socio-political stuff with little combat. I find 5E heading towards the opposite. Yes, DMs can houserule and design the game they want to play, but as it stands, recent options are more and more geared towards combat. The system itself - encounters per day, rest mechanics, etc., are designed around lots of combat. The recent books and options offer more ways to do cool things in combat. Most build sites, min-max, templates, etc., are based around the idea of heavy combat. If you're not focusing on combat, there aren't a lot of discussion points for characters.
This is all to say that at least 4th edition was unapologetic in saying and doing exactly what it set out to do. For my money, it still had the best combat system - navigating through rules and at the table - of any edition of D&D to date. It felt tabletop wargaming-esque, with cards, rollin' some dice, figuring out what powers to use, etc.
As I've seen lately, that's what 5E D&D is moving towards. Terrain, miniatures, combat trackers, chits, tokens, etc. A D&D table looks a lot more like Warhammer Fantasy these days than the sit on the couch, imagine stuff of old school D&D.
4E may have had other problem areas and been shallow otherwise, but it went all-in on what it was trying to do. As 5E gets more and more grey, I'm more appreciative of the black and white nature of 4E even more.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans