This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Has Roll20 announced yet how this change will impact their use of the 2014 Core Rules content? As far as I know, they have not.
I saw something on the roll20 subreddit where a staff member confirmed they would keep current rules usable.
That would be pretty cool if true. I have never really cared for Roll20. Their interface makes me want to cry, but I thought Demiplane was at least okay (though not as fluid as I like with DDB). Roll20 now owns Demiplane with plans to merge content. That could be worth looking into for my future gaming.
This is so unbelievably unintuitive and anti-consumer. I pay for the subscription because of the ease of use of dndbeyond. Its pretty clear with this decision making there is no longer a reason for me to be subscribed. Going to export my stuff then dip.
Did anyone even consider that this breaks any current campaign? Because when you take the spells and items away from the many many books we purchased, you break our characters... We cant tell our DMs who are on DnDBeyond "sorry rules changed". Because they are going to keep playing the way they always have and we are going to suffer for using your product... This could have been resolved by toggle in the character creator to choose 2014 vs 2024 content for the character... Instead of making them useless by sticking our character in a middle space... Where our 2014 characters, now have 2024 underpinnings and the cant be used. You have turned them into hybrid almagamations that dont fit in either the 2014 or 2024 rules... because no DM wants to lawyer back and forth about which rules are in play for what scenario... To tell you the truth, dont be surprised when people walk off feeling betrayed...
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Has Roll20 announced yet how this change will impact their use of the 2014 Core Rules content? As far as I know, they have not.
I saw something on the roll20 subreddit where a staff member confirmed they would keep current rules usable.
That would be pretty cool if true. I have never really cared for Roll20. Their interface makes me want to cry, but I thought Demiplane was at least okay (though not as fluid as I like with DDB). Roll20 now owns Demiplane with plans to merge content. That could be worth looking into for my future gaming.
They've confirmed on Twitter that both rulesets will be supported, looks like you'll have a choice of 2014 or 2024 character sheets when you create your character, and you can have a mix of both within a game. I'm not sure if thats just with their new sheets they're developing though, or whether the current sheets will do the same. Either way, the intention is to support both.
But perhaps 5e is just too much of a juggernaut for the folks at Hasbro to face consequences.
I think WOTC is, to some degree, a victim of their own success. 5E has been wildly, wildly successful, far more than ever anticipated.
The decision to make the 2024 rules "backwards compatible" was made out of greed, arrogance, and fear. The debacles of the last 20 months clearly demonstrate a lack of unity, understanding, and foresight.
They need to give everyone a reason to spend more money. They also don't want to lose any customers. And the sales for supplements has been steadily dropping over the last several years while the costs have gone up.
The brave, smart thing to do would've been a complete redesign of the game, with a long lead time and plenty of warning, and clear communications about how long 5E and the next version's content would be available online.
Instead, they chose to try and make everyone happy, and have instead just bungled the living sh!t out of this.
This is categorically a bad move. This decision was clearly made by someone who doesn't use their own product and is an insult to every tabletop gamer. How disappointing. If this is note revisited and changed, it will have major repercussions. Please do better.
Recent events reminded me of this post from 2022 on twitter.
I think this is a useful framing for what happens when the owners of a platform or service believe that they can enshittify with impunity.
But perhaps 5e is just too much of a juggernaut for the folks at Hasbro to face consequences.
That's a great read. And really does capture this.
First Grumble: Not being able to purchase legacy content. Being locked out of things like Volo's and Tome of Foes. But those that had already purchased them got to keep what they owned. So while disappointing, anyone that already had them was unaffected.
Second Grumble: Removal of a la carte. Personally I was quite bummed since there were some things I'd been eyeing, but at the end of the day it didn't affect anything we owned. An inconvenience to be sure, particularly if you had to contact customer support to get your discount on the full product, but you could use what you had.
Thermocline Breach: Deleting content we own. Now it's personal. This isn't some "Oh, would've like to buy stuff but now I can't. At least I have what I purchased." It's "You're really gonna delete what I bought? You're going to remove what I paid for? You're directly impacting my experience with what I've been using this site for?" It shows that even what you bought is not safe. It's not just prohibiting you from spending money. It's prohibiting you from benefiting from what you spent money on. And that's a big shift.
Yeah it would make sense for them to be doing that on the 27th maintenance plan. Which gives us an even shorter timeline than even having the labor day weekend to work on homebrew copies.
Would be nice to get some feedback from the wotc/hasbro, whether this change log will be pushed out as-is, or is there a way for the customers to keep the once acquired digital items (not talking about homebrewing them).
Many have the sunken costs already in dndbeyond, changing service might be difficult - odds of winning the game of chicken might be too tempting at the corporate decision makers.
I am in the process of homebrew copying over spells, and I can finish doing that over the next few days.
However, I am not sure I can handle magic items. The amount to copy is insane. Is there anyway we can get a list of items that are being updated so I do not have to copy everything over? Seems like mundane armor is unchanged, but what about magic armor? If I can skip copying magic armor and magic weapons, that will eliminate a huge load of work.
I am really not happy that I have to resort to homebrew copy a bunch of stuff that I paid for. As much as I love the digital tools on Beyond, I am not optimistic about Beyond's future. I am sticking with Beyond for now, so I will still continue to make purchases in the foreseeable future, but I really do not want to. I guess I should really start considering using Google Sheets, but it is such a pain in the ass to set things up.
I am interested in why you are doing this now instead of waiting until you have a list of exactly which spells/items are being made unavailable. Please don't take this as accusatory or having some ulterior motive behind my post. Truthfully, you are one of my favorite posters on this entire site, so I am asking out of genuine curiosity.
I'm a bit late jumping into this thread of the conversation, but for what it's worth, I have access to the 2024 PHB now, and I actually gave up on trying to make such a list after getting through the first four pages of spells and finding that Animate Dead was the only one that wasn't changed in some way. Even spells that function identically to the 2014 versions, which is most of them, typically have wording changes, or use keywords that aren't found in the 2014 PHB, like Emanation for an effect that extends in a radius around a character, or changing the option you chose for Alter Self being a Magic action. A few others, like Aid, have nearly identical wording but appear on spell lists that they didn't in 2014. Eventually, I just concluded that making or even referencing a list would probably take more time than just copying every spell, since the vast majority are changing in some way anyway.
I don't own many books, and we prefer pen and paper at my table, but customers should always be the first priority. It's crucial that the 2014-2024 content be preserved under the same terms and usage, even after the new revision of the books.
Given the feedback received in the thread, I believe the decisions made should be reconsidered.
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Has Roll20 announced yet how this change will impact their use of the 2014 Core Rules content? As far as I know, they have not.
They did 19 hours ago, check their socials when you can:
This is what D&D Beyond should do. I don't like Roll 20 for personal reasons, but it's good to see that at least them respect users who bought content through their platform. My group and I will be leaving the platform for sure if this does not change, and even if it does, I'm not buying another content on D&D Beyond ever again, trust is broken. Not much of a rent guy, you know? Call me old school, but I do enjoy owning things I bought... crazy, I know.
This is bullshit. If I had known this was going to happen I never would have made a purchase here. I would have purchased on Roll20 where I get to keep what I bought.
Has Roll20 announced yet how this change will impact their use of the 2014 Core Rules content? As far as I know, they have not.
They did 19 hours ago, check their socials when you can:
This is what D&D Beyond should do. I don't like Roll 20 for personal reasons, but it's good to see that at least them respect users who bought content through their platform. My group and I will be leaving the platform for sure if this does not change, and even if it does, I'm not buying another content on D&D Beyond ever again, trust is broken. Not much of a rent guy, you know? Call me old school, but I do enjoy owning things I bought... crazy, I know.
I'm gonna be the guy doing devils advocate here. I want to be clear I don't really support roll20 and don't feel like dndbeyond is doing it right either.
Roll20 is a platform where multiple games are supported. It's what they do. People giving them praise for supporting what they are essentially supporting as a new game system is silly. I'm glad they are, but I'd have been mad if they didn't.
Beyond only runs one platform, and we still haven't gotten any responses to this and it's not even on the front page. It's not in a youtube video. They did post it on twitter and are getting roasted there too.
I already wasn't a fan of the recent changes to the UI under the Game Rules section, but making the choice to play under the 2014 rule set so finicky and annoying doesn't make using Beyond appealing for the 2014 players such as myself and my players.
A simple switch in settings to toggle whether you want to use 2014 or 2024 ruleset would make so many of these changes far more tolerable.
People bought digital copies of content on your platform with the SOLE INTENT of using the platform, and its built in tools, which you are now removing access to. You now take that content and make it unusable on your platform to attempt to strongarm your userbase to buy your "new" material at a premium price, while already charging a subscription! (And lets be honest, none of it is new. Its the same books recycled version after version)
So that is what it boils down to. There are really only 3 acceptable options here:
1. Refund all 5e owners the cost of the content they purchased if it is no longer going to be available for use on your platform with all features enabled, as was the agreement when purchase was made. Keep your subscription fees, as services were rendered, fair is fair.
2. Leave a toggle for users to flip between 5e and dnd2024 and continue business as rational adults. (p.s. this is the correct answer if you needed help HAZBRO)
3. Issue a free copy of all dnd2024 materials as they release to anyone who owns the corresponding 5e materials so that they can still fully utilize the platform.
Otherwise I would be on the lookout for a class-action lawsuit.
It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but I unsubscribed and will be using pen and paper for character creation and this site only as a compendium. There has to be a better way than this.
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Veteran player and DM, taught an ethics class to middle schoolers using DnD as a learning medium.
I’ve been a subscriber for years and have spent hundreds on this content. You remove my spells I will unsubscribe and stop using your page. Period. The end. I will not argue with you, if I wish to play the new version I will make that choice. You will not force me to do so.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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That would be pretty cool if true. I have never really cared for Roll20. Their interface makes me want to cry, but I thought Demiplane was at least okay (though not as fluid as I like with DDB). Roll20 now owns Demiplane with plans to merge content. That could be worth looking into for my future gaming.
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This is so unbelievably unintuitive and anti-consumer. I pay for the subscription because of the ease of use of dndbeyond. Its pretty clear with this decision making there is no longer a reason for me to be subscribed. Going to export my stuff then dip.
Did anyone even consider that this breaks any current campaign?
Because when you take the spells and items away from the many many books we purchased, you break our characters... We cant tell our DMs who are on DnDBeyond "sorry rules changed". Because they are going to keep playing the way they always have and we are going to suffer for using your product... This could have been resolved by toggle in the character creator to choose 2014 vs 2024 content for the character... Instead of making them useless by sticking our character in a middle space... Where our 2014 characters, now have 2024 underpinnings and the cant be used. You have turned them into hybrid almagamations that dont fit in either the 2014 or 2024 rules... because no DM wants to lawyer back and forth about which rules are in play for what scenario... To tell you the truth, dont be surprised when people walk off feeling betrayed...
Recent events reminded me of this post from 2022 on twitter.
I think this is a useful framing for what happens when the owners of a platform or service believe that they can enshittify with impunity.
But perhaps 5e is just too much of a juggernaut for the folks at Hasbro to face consequences.
They've confirmed on Twitter that both rulesets will be supported, looks like you'll have a choice of 2014 or 2024 character sheets when you create your character, and you can have a mix of both within a game. I'm not sure if thats just with their new sheets they're developing though, or whether the current sheets will do the same. Either way, the intention is to support both.
I think WOTC is, to some degree, a victim of their own success. 5E has been wildly, wildly successful, far more than ever anticipated.
The decision to make the 2024 rules "backwards compatible" was made out of greed, arrogance, and fear. The debacles of the last 20 months clearly demonstrate a lack of unity, understanding, and foresight.
They need to give everyone a reason to spend more money. They also don't want to lose any customers. And the sales for supplements has been steadily dropping over the last several years while the costs have gone up.
The brave, smart thing to do would've been a complete redesign of the game, with a long lead time and plenty of warning, and clear communications about how long 5E and the next version's content would be available online.
Instead, they chose to try and make everyone happy, and have instead just bungled the living sh!t out of this.
Well, this answers my question as to when this issue was going to make it to mainstream: https://www.polygon.com/dnd-dungeons-dragons/443394/dnd-beyond-changelog-phb-launch-date-character-sheets
This is categorically a bad move. This decision was clearly made by someone who doesn't use their own product and is an insult to every tabletop gamer. How disappointing. If this is note revisited and changed, it will have major repercussions. Please do better.
That's a great read. And really does capture this.
First Grumble: Not being able to purchase legacy content. Being locked out of things like Volo's and Tome of Foes.
But those that had already purchased them got to keep what they owned. So while disappointing, anyone that already had them was unaffected.
Second Grumble: Removal of a la carte. Personally I was quite bummed since there were some things I'd been eyeing, but at the end of the day it didn't affect anything we owned. An inconvenience to be sure, particularly if you had to contact customer support to get your discount on the full product, but you could use what you had.
Thermocline Breach: Deleting content we own.
Now it's personal. This isn't some "Oh, would've like to buy stuff but now I can't. At least I have what I purchased." It's "You're really gonna delete what I bought? You're going to remove what I paid for? You're directly impacting my experience with what I've been using this site for?" It shows that even what you bought is not safe. It's not just prohibiting you from spending money. It's prohibiting you from benefiting from what you spent money on. And that's a big shift.
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Yeah it would make sense for them to be doing that on the 27th maintenance plan. Which gives us an even shorter timeline than even having the labor day weekend to work on homebrew copies.
That's really short notice for a major change.
This is a signature. It was a simple signature. But it has been upgraded.
Belolonandalogalo, Sunny | Draíocht, Kholias | Eggo Lass, 100 Dungeons
Talorin Tebedi, Vecna: Eve | Cherry, Stormwreck | Chipper, Strahd
We Are Modron
Get rickrolled here. Awesome music here. Track 48, 5/23/25, Immaculate Mary
Would be nice to get some feedback from the wotc/hasbro, whether this change log will be pushed out as-is, or is there a way for the customers to keep the once acquired digital items (not talking about homebrewing them).
Many have the sunken costs already in dndbeyond, changing service might be difficult - odds of winning the game of chicken might be too tempting at the corporate decision makers.
I'm a bit late jumping into this thread of the conversation, but for what it's worth, I have access to the 2024 PHB now, and I actually gave up on trying to make such a list after getting through the first four pages of spells and finding that Animate Dead was the only one that wasn't changed in some way. Even spells that function identically to the 2014 versions, which is most of them, typically have wording changes, or use keywords that aren't found in the 2014 PHB, like Emanation for an effect that extends in a radius around a character, or changing the option you chose for Alter Self being a Magic action. A few others, like Aid, have nearly identical wording but appear on spell lists that they didn't in 2014. Eventually, I just concluded that making or even referencing a list would probably take more time than just copying every spell, since the vast majority are changing in some way anyway.
Been trying to download pdfs of my characters. Been getting a "site wasn't available' error when I clicked download...
I don't own many books, and we prefer pen and paper at my table, but customers should always be the first priority. It's crucial that the 2014-2024 content be preserved under the same terms and usage, even after the new revision of the books.
Given the feedback received in the thread, I believe the decisions made should be reconsidered.
Please…
🫶
They did 19 hours ago, check their socials when you can:
This is what D&D Beyond should do. I don't like Roll 20 for personal reasons, but it's good to see that at least them respect users who bought content through their platform.
My group and I will be leaving the platform for sure if this does not change, and even if it does, I'm not buying another content on D&D Beyond ever again, trust is broken.
Not much of a rent guy, you know? Call me old school, but I do enjoy owning things I bought... crazy, I know.
I'm gonna be the guy doing devils advocate here. I want to be clear I don't really support roll20 and don't feel like dndbeyond is doing it right either.
Roll20 is a platform where multiple games are supported. It's what they do. People giving them praise for supporting what they are essentially supporting as a new game system is silly. I'm glad they are, but I'd have been mad if they didn't.
Beyond only runs one platform, and we still haven't gotten any responses to this and it's not even on the front page. It's not in a youtube video. They did post it on twitter and are getting roasted there too.
Real
People bought digital copies of content on your platform with the SOLE INTENT of using the platform, and its built in tools, which you are now removing access to. You now take that content and make it unusable on your platform to attempt to strongarm your userbase to buy your "new" material at a premium price, while already charging a subscription! (And lets be honest, none of it is new. Its the same books recycled version after version)
So that is what it boils down to. There are really only 3 acceptable options here:
1. Refund all 5e owners the cost of the content they purchased if it is no longer going to be available for use on your platform with all features enabled, as was the agreement when purchase was made. Keep your subscription fees, as services were rendered, fair is fair.
2. Leave a toggle for users to flip between 5e and dnd2024 and continue business as rational adults. (p.s. this is the correct answer if you needed help HAZBRO)
3. Issue a free copy of all dnd2024 materials as they release to anyone who owns the corresponding 5e materials so that they can still fully utilize the platform.
Otherwise I would be on the lookout for a class-action lawsuit.
It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but I unsubscribed and will be using pen and paper for character creation and this site only as a compendium. There has to be a better way than this.
Veteran player and DM, taught an ethics class to middle schoolers using DnD as a learning medium.
I’ve been a subscriber for years and have spent hundreds on this content. You remove my spells I will unsubscribe and stop using your page. Period. The end. I will not argue with you, if I wish to play the new version I will make that choice. You will not force me to do so.