The PCs in my group are a sorcerer, wizard, and ranger. All 3 have their primary stat (CHA, INT, DEX) at 20.
The ranger cannot miss due to having archery fighting skill and a +2 longbow.
Since the sorc and the wizard don't really use weapons, I'm struggling with finding ways to bring their characters up to an equivalent power level. The wizard has an item that boosts the spell save DC by +1 but nothing that modifies his spell attack bonus. So with their primary sources of attacks, the sorc and wizard are 6-7 below the ranger.
I'm not going to punish my ranger (my 11yo nephew) and ruin his fun but the power imbalance is getting frustrating for the others. The bard NPC traveling with them baned the last enemy they fought so that it missed more than it hit when attacking others and the wizard did get the killing blow but he blew one of his two fifth-level slots (we're level 10 don't @ me about the +2 longbow).
Any thoughts or suggestions on boosting the others so they feel on the same level as the ranger?
Remember, damage per round does not equal power. Wizards and Sorcerers can take out dozens of low-level foes with a single spell. They can incapacitate opponents who fail one saving throw. And they have utility spells for nearly every trap, hazard, or puzzle.
Warrior-style characters like Rangers might look powerful on paper, but spellcasters' ability to go nuclear on big, crucial turns and fights is their real strength. The fact that the Ranger is more consistent is totally intentional. So honestly, a "fix" will probably just hurt your balance in the other direction.
Attack bonus is not super relevant to sorcerer or wizard, the vast majority of their damage comes from abilities that have saves, not attack rolls. That said, if someone really wants to be using spell attacks, Wand of the War Mage will help.
Not sure where you're getting '6-7 below' though. At level 10 with stat of 20, attack bonus for the ranger should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency)+2(fighting style)+2(bow), or +13, for the other two should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency) or +9.
Personally I'd say to talk to the spell caster players about what NaivaraArnuanna said. Spellcasters can deal crazy damage with high level spells but they aren't consistent. If they want to deal even more damage, tell them to combo their spells together or something like that. You could also tell them that they can take more offensive spells as well if they aren't super geared towards offense.
Hypnotic pattern is a 30 foot cube, that's 6x6 or 36 enemy that could potentially be taken out of a fight in a single round if they fail their saving throws. Don't think the ranger is quite up to that. It comes down to what spells they have, how well they use them and the tactics used by the enemy.
Are the casters newer players? I ask because there's no way a wizard should feel underpowered compared to a ranger. So it's making me think that either the wizard chose their spells poorly, or they are afraid of using leveled spells because they worry they'll run out and so they are just using cantrips, which actually would feel underpowered. If that's the case, just maybe go over their spell choices with them and point them to some other ones. At level 10, a wizard can be flying while they throw around fireballs, black tentacles, and cones of cold. Way cooler than shooting a guy two times. The sorcerer similarly will feel underpowered if they aren't using their metamagc, or converting points to extra spell slots. If they're just spamming fire bolt, then yeah, they'll be underpowered. Again, make sure they understand what the character can do.
I have to wonder how a 10th level Ranger "cannot miss" Proficiency bonus is +4, they get +5 at most from Dex, they get a +2 from their bow, Archery Fighting Style adds +2
+13 to hit is very impressive. A 19 on the d20 and they can hit a 32 armor class. A natural 20 always hits. A natural 1 always misses. On a two, they only hit an armor class of 15.
Your Wizard and your Sorcerer want to be able to hit better with their spells. Ok. Are their casting scores maxed? If so, give the Wizard a Tome Of Clear Thought, and the Sorcerer a Tome Of Leadership and Influence. That will put them up to 22 in their casting scores.
It should also be noted that the spell Magic Missile is the thing that really Cannot Miss. If you can cast it at all, something that both Wizards and Sorcerers can try, It never misses, there is no save, the darts of force can be divided up among all targets in any way they like, and it can be up-cast to get more darts. If they complain about running low on spell slots, give them each a Wand of Magic Missiles and be generous with the charges.
I have not mentioned this before, but when it comes to damage, the Wizard and the Sorcerer are the clear victors. Rangers are somewhat limited to single targets. They can do a load of damage if given time, but a Fireball hits a whole bunch of things. A 10th level Sorcerer or Wizard can do this 3 times each, and it can be up-cast, but let's not worry about that. 8d6 fire damage from 150 yards away, making a 20 foot radius sphere, with a Dex save for half damage. And again, you can always pass out some wands for that.
Rangers are good at hitting. Fortunately, the game is about more than just hitting. Play up the other benefits of the spellcasters. Magic has massive out-of-combat utility. Know their spells and create situations where those spells would shine.
But even in combat, they should be doing fine. At their level, things like Cone of Cold or Animate Objects can tear through groups of enemies. Wall of Force or Synaptic Static can end whole fights before they even start.
Make sure they know what their spells can do and give them opportunities to use them. If they have anxiety about using their spell slots, encourage them to do so. If they are routinely running out of spells, run shorter adventuring days. Ideally by level 10, a full spellcaster has enough slots that they won't often have to fall back to using cantrips unless it's a particularly long day.
Attack bonus is not super relevant to sorcerer or wizard, the vast majority of their damage comes from abilities that have saves, not attack rolls. That said, if someone really wants to be using spell attacks, Wand of the War Mage will help.
Not sure where you're getting '6-7 below' though. At level 10 with stat of 20, attack bonus for the ranger should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency)+2(fighting style)+2(bow), or +13, for the other two should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency) or +9.
Math is hard is where I'm getting the 6-7 below. The sorcerer's save DC is 17 and the wizard's is 18.
Personally I'd say to talk to the spell caster players about what NaivaraArnuanna said. Spellcasters can deal crazy damage with high level spells but they aren't consistent. If they want to deal even more damage, tell them to combo their spells together or something like that. You could also tell them that they can take more offensive spells as well if they aren't super geared towards offense.
I did get the chance to ask the 15yo (the sorcerer) today and I don't know if he was just saying what he thought I'd want to hear or if it was the truth (he's a teenager in every sense of the word) but he said he was having fun. He's got an incredibly varied spell list because he is a divine soul so picks from sorc and cleric lists plus has a wand that lets him do some healing (has charges so limited use). Kind of a mix of offense, defense, and healing.
fire bolt mending ray of frost shocking grasp spare the dying sword burst thaumaturgy
I have to wonder how a 10th level Ranger "cannot miss" Proficiency bonus is +4, they get +5 at most from Dex, they get a +2 from their bow, Archery Fighting Style adds +2
+13 to hit is very impressive. A 19 on the d20 and they can hit a 32 armor class. A natural 20 always hits. A natural 1 always misses. On a two, they only hit an armor class of 15.
Your Wizard and your Sorcerer want to be able to hit better with their spells. Ok. Are their casting scores maxed? If so, give the Wizard a Tome Of Clear Thought, and the Sorcerer a Tome Of Leadership and Influence. That will put them up to 22 in their casting scores.
It should also be noted that the spell Magic Missile is the thing that really Cannot Miss. If you can cast it at all, something that both Wizards and Sorcerers can try, It never misses, there is no save, the darts of force can be divided up among all targets in any way they like, and it can be up-cast to get more darts. If they complain about running low on spell slots, give them each a Wand of Magic Missiles and be generous with the charges.
I have not mentioned this before, but when it comes to damage, the Wizard and the Sorcerer are the clear victors. Rangers are somewhat limited to single targets. They can do a load of damage if given time, but a Fireball hits a whole bunch of things. A 10th level Sorcerer or Wizard can do this 3 times each, and it can be up-cast, but let's not worry about that. 8d6 fire damage from 150 yards away, making a 20 foot radius sphere, with a Dex save for half damage. And again, you can always pass out some wands for that.
We're running through ToD and a lot of the baddies have a relatively low AC. The last monster we fought was AC14 so only a Nat1 would miss for the ranger.
The wizard took out this enemy but he did it by casting magic missile at 5th level.
Rangers are good at hitting. Fortunately, the game is about more than just hitting. Play up the other benefits of the spellcasters. Magic has massive out-of-combat utility. Know their spells and create situations where those spells would shine.
But even in combat, they should be doing fine. At their level, things like Cone of Cold or Animate Objects can tear through groups of enemies. Wall of Force or Synaptic Static can end whole fights before they even start.
Make sure they know what their spells can do and give them opportunities to use them. If they have anxiety about using their spell slots, encourage them to do so. If they are routinely running out of spells, run shorter adventuring days. Ideally by level 10, a full spellcaster has enough slots that they won't often have to fall back to using cantrips unless it's a particularly long day.
The wizard I think has some good spells for combat. The sorc is divine soul and is like half and half on sorc or cleric spells. Maybe it's time to homebrew up a feat that can let the sorc lean some spells from the wizard if he starts to complain about combat.
I've been trying to figure out what adventure "ToD" might be. Tyranny of Dragons?
Yes. We're in Rise of Tiamat now (Diderius' tomb). This group started out with my brother DMing his boys and me through LMoP and when that concluded, the same group jumped into hoard of the dragon queen with me as DM. Two of the players (my brother and one nephew) weren't having fun with their characters any more around when we concluded HOtDQ so they changed characters. So now we have the ranger, the sorcerer, and the wizard. (Before we had two rangers and a paladin.) I tend to run at least one NPC along for the ride as support (currently it's a bard) just to make sure the group has fun and isn't going to face potential TPK every single encounter.
I have a similar problem with my group. My wife runs a ranger and gets the vast majority of the kills and damage. Last session I put them in a situation where I put a giant creature in her way with high AC and health, basically a giant turtle. She couldn't see around it and had to focus fire on the turtle, while the rest of the party dealt with the other creatures. It made it more fun because the other players got the important kill as she spent the entire time trying to down a giant turtle. Because he was large and came up out of the swamp in between her and the rest of the party it made it more interesting at least. She plays an Air Genasi so she flies so I put a 15ft canopy in the swamp so she couldn't fly over it as it was 15ft tall.
I guess I say all that to say, find ways to limit their range with walls or other obstacles to worry about would be my advice. Then try to boost your other characters even if it's with over powered weapons that have a downside to them until they can get to the level where things start to even out. My barbarian I gave a sword that has increasing damage for 7 hits then it breaks and they have to go through a process to get it repaired before it will work again. It's been enough hits that it will usually last through the important parts of a session, where he can use a lesser weapon on the lesser creatures and save the big sword for the big bad of the group. Then he just has to find a wizard powerful enough to fix it. With that I was able to up the CR of the encounters making it more fun for everyone.
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The PCs in my group are a sorcerer, wizard, and ranger. All 3 have their primary stat (CHA, INT, DEX) at 20.
The ranger cannot miss due to having archery fighting skill and a +2 longbow.
Since the sorc and the wizard don't really use weapons, I'm struggling with finding ways to bring their characters up to an equivalent power level. The wizard has an item that boosts the spell save DC by +1 but nothing that modifies his spell attack bonus. So with their primary sources of attacks, the sorc and wizard are 6-7 below the ranger.
I'm not going to punish my ranger (my 11yo nephew) and ruin his fun but the power imbalance is getting frustrating for the others. The bard NPC traveling with them baned the last enemy they fought so that it missed more than it hit when attacking others and the wizard did get the killing blow but he blew one of his two fifth-level slots (we're level 10 don't @ me about the +2 longbow).
Any thoughts or suggestions on boosting the others so they feel on the same level as the ranger?
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
Remember, damage per round does not equal power. Wizards and Sorcerers can take out dozens of low-level foes with a single spell. They can incapacitate opponents who fail one saving throw. And they have utility spells for nearly every trap, hazard, or puzzle.
Warrior-style characters like Rangers might look powerful on paper, but spellcasters' ability to go nuclear on big, crucial turns and fights is their real strength. The fact that the Ranger is more consistent is totally intentional. So honestly, a "fix" will probably just hurt your balance in the other direction.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Attack bonus is not super relevant to sorcerer or wizard, the vast majority of their damage comes from abilities that have saves, not attack rolls. That said, if someone really wants to be using spell attacks, Wand of the War Mage will help.
Not sure where you're getting '6-7 below' though. At level 10 with stat of 20, attack bonus for the ranger should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency)+2(fighting style)+2(bow), or +13, for the other two should be 5 (stat)+4(proficiency) or +9.
Personally I'd say to talk to the spell caster players about what NaivaraArnuanna said. Spellcasters can deal crazy damage with high level spells but they aren't consistent. If they want to deal even more damage, tell them to combo their spells together or something like that. You could also tell them that they can take more offensive spells as well if they aren't super geared towards offense.
Hypnotic pattern is a 30 foot cube, that's 6x6 or 36 enemy that could potentially be taken out of a fight in a single round if they fail their saving throws. Don't think the ranger is quite up to that. It comes down to what spells they have, how well they use them and the tactics used by the enemy.
Are the casters newer players? I ask because there's no way a wizard should feel underpowered compared to a ranger. So it's making me think that either the wizard chose their spells poorly, or they are afraid of using leveled spells because they worry they'll run out and so they are just using cantrips, which actually would feel underpowered. If that's the case, just maybe go over their spell choices with them and point them to some other ones. At level 10, a wizard can be flying while they throw around fireballs, black tentacles, and cones of cold. Way cooler than shooting a guy two times. The sorcerer similarly will feel underpowered if they aren't using their metamagc, or converting points to extra spell slots. If they're just spamming fire bolt, then yeah, they'll be underpowered. Again, make sure they understand what the character can do.
I have to wonder how a 10th level Ranger "cannot miss" Proficiency bonus is +4, they get +5 at most from Dex, they get a +2 from their bow, Archery Fighting Style adds +2
+13 to hit is very impressive. A 19 on the d20 and they can hit a 32 armor class. A natural 20 always hits. A natural 1 always misses. On a two, they only hit an armor class of 15.
Your Wizard and your Sorcerer want to be able to hit better with their spells. Ok. Are their casting scores maxed? If so, give the Wizard a Tome Of Clear Thought, and the Sorcerer a Tome Of Leadership and Influence. That will put them up to 22 in their casting scores.
It should also be noted that the spell Magic Missile is the thing that really Cannot Miss. If you can cast it at all, something that both Wizards and Sorcerers can try, It never misses, there is no save, the darts of force can be divided up among all targets in any way they like, and it can be up-cast to get more darts. If they complain about running low on spell slots, give them each a Wand of Magic Missiles and be generous with the charges.
I have not mentioned this before, but when it comes to damage, the Wizard and the Sorcerer are the clear victors. Rangers are somewhat limited to single targets. They can do a load of damage if given time, but a Fireball hits a whole bunch of things. A 10th level Sorcerer or Wizard can do this 3 times each, and it can be up-cast, but let's not worry about that. 8d6 fire damage from 150 yards away, making a 20 foot radius sphere, with a Dex save for half damage. And again, you can always pass out some wands for that.
<Insert clever signature here>
Rangers are good at hitting. Fortunately, the game is about more than just hitting. Play up the other benefits of the spellcasters. Magic has massive out-of-combat utility. Know their spells and create situations where those spells would shine.
But even in combat, they should be doing fine. At their level, things like Cone of Cold or Animate Objects can tear through groups of enemies. Wall of Force or Synaptic Static can end whole fights before they even start.
Make sure they know what their spells can do and give them opportunities to use them. If they have anxiety about using their spell slots, encourage them to do so. If they are routinely running out of spells, run shorter adventuring days. Ideally by level 10, a full spellcaster has enough slots that they won't often have to fall back to using cantrips unless it's a particularly long day.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Math is hard is where I'm getting the 6-7 below. The sorcerer's save DC is 17 and the wizard's is 18.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I did get the chance to ask the 15yo (the sorcerer) today and I don't know if he was just saying what he thought I'd want to hear or if it was the truth (he's a teenager in every sense of the word) but he said he was having fun. He's got an incredibly varied spell list because he is a divine soul so picks from sorc and cleric lists plus has a wand that lets him do some healing (has charges so limited use). Kind of a mix of offense, defense, and healing.
fire bolt
mending
ray of frost
shocking grasp
spare the dying
sword burst
thaumaturgy
bane
chromatic orb
cure wounds
guiding bolt
mage armor
witch bolt
darkness
hellish rebuke
lesser restoration
locate object
spiritual weapon
dispel magic
mass healing word
guardian of faith
wall of fire
insect plague
summon celestial
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
We're running through ToD and a lot of the baddies have a relatively low AC. The last monster we fought was AC14 so only a Nat1 would miss for the ranger.
The wizard took out this enemy but he did it by casting magic missile at 5th level.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
The wizard I think has some good spells for combat. The sorc is divine soul and is like half and half on sorc or cleric spells. Maybe it's time to homebrew up a feat that can let the sorc lean some spells from the wizard if he starts to complain about combat.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I've been trying to figure out what adventure "ToD" might be. Tyranny of Dragons?
<Insert clever signature here>
Yes. We're in Rise of Tiamat now (Diderius' tomb). This group started out with my brother DMing his boys and me through LMoP and when that concluded, the same group jumped into hoard of the dragon queen with me as DM. Two of the players (my brother and one nephew) weren't having fun with their characters any more around when we concluded HOtDQ so they changed characters. So now we have the ranger, the sorcerer, and the wizard. (Before we had two rangers and a paladin.) I tend to run at least one NPC along for the ride as support (currently it's a bard) just to make sure the group has fun and isn't going to face potential TPK every single encounter.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I have a similar problem with my group. My wife runs a ranger and gets the vast majority of the kills and damage. Last session I put them in a situation where I put a giant creature in her way with high AC and health, basically a giant turtle. She couldn't see around it and had to focus fire on the turtle, while the rest of the party dealt with the other creatures. It made it more fun because the other players got the important kill as she spent the entire time trying to down a giant turtle. Because he was large and came up out of the swamp in between her and the rest of the party it made it more interesting at least. She plays an Air Genasi so she flies so I put a 15ft canopy in the swamp so she couldn't fly over it as it was 15ft tall.
I guess I say all that to say, find ways to limit their range with walls or other obstacles to worry about would be my advice. Then try to boost your other characters even if it's with over powered weapons that have a downside to them until they can get to the level where things start to even out. My barbarian I gave a sword that has increasing damage for 7 hits then it breaks and they have to go through a process to get it repaired before it will work again. It's been enough hits that it will usually last through the important parts of a session, where he can use a lesser weapon on the lesser creatures and save the big sword for the big bad of the group. Then he just has to find a wizard powerful enough to fix it. With that I was able to up the CR of the encounters making it more fun for everyone.