I just ran session one of a campaign where the entire party, PCs and players, returned form a previous campaign. After going over what happened in the time in between campaigns, I gave each player a hook that would get them in the same place again to start the next campaign.
TLDR version of what happened. The Orc had joined a bounty hunter's guild and was being promoted in a ceremony. The Gnome had heard through a contact that during this ceremony, guild artifacts come out and are more easily stolen; including some old Gnomish artifacts looted from his home country. The Changling was there after hearing that a guild member was a Changling, and may have information on his missing father.
I thought at worst the Gnome would try to quietly steal a specific Gnomish item during the ceremony; in fact I'd hoped he would. What ended up happening was he set off an oil bomb during the ceremony, setting the ceremonial room on fire, stealing the Gnomish artifact along with another important item to the guild. This also ruined the Changling's chances of meeting his contact and getting information on his missing father.
The Gnome escaped by disguising himself and blending in the the crowd escaping the flames. The other two PCs are talking about not speaking to him again and having him hunted, he did attack a bounty hunter's guild, even killing him if they saw him again.
There had been tension in the previous campaign, between the PCs, not the players, but not like this. This felt different, I even think the players are a bit upset.
I'm at a bit of a loss here as to what my next step should be. I don't really know how to get this party back together. Is this my fault? I am not the most experienced DM, but I don't feel like the events that lead up to the oil bomb were really avoidable. He was in the rear of the room, reached into his bag and just set it off, I don't know how I would have stopped him, or if I even should have.
The only idea I had at all was to somehow get them all captured in the Underdark; which is where the campaign was going to take them anyway. But I don't even know how to get them to that point.
Anyone ever had a scenario like this? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
You, as the DM, need to work with the situation you have and the players themselves to push them together again. What's happened is an interesting plot point and a cool part of the story you're making, so build on it!
Perhaps have the guild catch the thief PC and summon the Orc, and explain that they know that the Orc has had previous dealings with the gnome thief and that the gnome's actions have dishonoured him. They offer a chance for the thief to be spared, as the Orc is a member of the guild, but they will need to bring in a bounty as a service to the guild; not getting the money for it. The Gnome should feel like they owe the Orc for ruining things (discuss wit hthe player to get them on board before the session) and the Orc should feel like they should save the Gnome as they have adventured together before.
The changeling can get involved as they wish to meet the changeling in the guild, so this could be their way in.
run a side-quest for the guild, if possible make it loosely connected to the main plot you have planned in some way (drop the plothooks in there) and when it's complete, the guild can advise the Orc not to bring their Gnome friend to guild ceremonies again, and the changeling may have a chance to meet their contact.
I just ran session one of a campaign where the entire party, PCs and players, returned form a previous campaign. After going over what happened in the time in between campaigns, I gave each player a hook that would get them in the same place again to start the next campaign.
TLDR version of what happened. The Orc had joined a bounty hunter's guild and was being promoted in a ceremony. The Gnome had heard through a contact that during this ceremony, guild artifacts come out and are more easily stolen; including some old Gnomish artifacts looted from his home country. The Changling was there after hearing that a guild member was a Changling, and may have information on his missing father.
I thought at worst the Gnome would try to quietly steal a specific Gnomish item during the ceremony; in fact I'd hoped he would. What ended up happening was he set off an oil bomb during the ceremony, setting the ceremonial room on fire, stealing the Gnomish artifact along with another important item to the guild. This also ruined the Changling's chances of meeting his contact and getting information on his missing father. I'm not sure how the Gnome's actions immediately threaten the Orc's promotion or the Changelings chance at info unless you specifically say it does as a DM. If the Gnome wasn't acting in concert with the others of the party, how do they even know the Gnome is to blame? If they knew that the Gnome was going to steal a guild artifact, should they be in good standing with said guild then?
The Gnome escaped by disguising himself and blending in the the crowd escaping the flames. The other two PCs are talking about not speaking to him again and having him hunted, he did attack a bounty hunter's guild, even killing him if they saw him again.
There had been tension in the previous campaign, between the PCs, not the players, but not like this. This felt different, I even think the players are a bit upset.
I'm at a bit of a loss here as to what my next step should be. I don't really know how to get this party back together. Is this my fault? I am not the most experienced DM, but I don't feel like the events that lead up to the oil bomb were really avoidable. He was in the rear of the room, reached into his bag and just set it off, I don't know how I would have stopped him, or if I even should have.
The only idea I had at all was to somehow get them all captured in the Underdark; which is where the campaign was going to take them anyway. But I don't even know how to get them to that point.
Anyone ever had a scenario like this? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Oh Boy! I've not had to face this situation as a DM though I've experienced it as a player at least twice and it's always ended with someone leaving the group. It rather left me feeling pessimistic at your chances of maybe getting this group back together and then I read the sentence...
"The only idea I had at all was to somehow get them all captured in the Underdark; which is where the campaign was going to take them anyway. "
And it reminded me of the campaign setup for OotA - Out of the Abyss and I thought wow that might actually work! it would even add to that initial scenario of which NPC's can I really trust
I do wish you luck in your DM'ing predicament and would love to hear how it turns out in the future, if you'd care to post a follow up I think it would be really useful for others
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
So first of all, its not your fault as a dm. You might feel responsible for what happens at the table, but you are not.
Rp is like improv theatre, and there are always rules where each actor/player should act upon. Its each and everyone of them who are responsible for their own choices. In short, improv means: say yes and, build upon informatiob with new information, and never block other actors/players.
These are 3 set rules I clearly state at the start of a campaign, and which I give when I see something happening which is going against the rule of 3.
The player went obviously mad, and goes against the rule of cornering other players. I would immediatly talk to the player, and explain why this is problematic behaviour to build a story on. Does he not agree? Fine, his character is now an npc, and the party has a new quest. This player would leave my table, or role a new pc and make sure everyone builds a story together.
The second option is the 'yes, and..' rule. Yes this happened, and he got caught and has remorse, he now owes favors. The other party members might build upon this with new info. This was clearly important to his pc, what drove him, and maybe there is a story hidden in this.
Bu the responsibility boils down to this one player. Rp is storybuilding together.
I think it can be quite common for characters to each have priorities and behaviours such that, but for the metagaming goodwill of the players, some of the characters might want nothing to do with some of the others. Most characters, at least partly, stay together for the sake of a good game. They may even, in some circumstances, tolerate a Leeroy Jenkins.
In some dramas including sit coms it's common for characters even to be developed so that they jar with one another and yet they still stick together mainly for the shits and giggles of the writer or audience. Sometimes players may choose to lean into this, or they may not.
Why isn't that goodwill there? It may not be your fault. With the level of concern that you're expressing, I doubt it is. What are the player's relationships like generally?
As far as characters are concerned, they may tolerate another character if they at least contribute more positives than negatives.
How would it be for the offending character to be hunted down? How would that be for them? Is there bullying involved? Is there a reason to step in or mediate? Could hunting a hunting down arc fit in with the story? If so, would this be something that you wouldn't like to encourage? If not, what would you do with collected magic items on a losing side? Would it be possible for the offending player to bring in a new character?
There could certainly be learning points in the situation? If PvP is acceptable to the players and if it's something you'd be prepared to run then there could be options.
If players take those options, there could be implications.
My Thoughts regarding "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." ie all of them captured in the Underdark
I think I would resort to grabbing the Story wheel and doing a fade to black...
Any RP actions of the players at this point seem very likely to further divide the party and as they are most likely separated why should they be in on what the others are doing... The Gnome most likely is laying low making a getaway or fencing off the loot... The Orc and Changeling under suspicion of being in on it all along...
So I would fade to black... leaving the past few weeks as a haizy drugged out fragmented memory... did someone I trust betray me? set me up and sell me out as a slave to the Drow!?!... It's all uncertain the only thing certain now is the pain and the darkness
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I have an idea of how you can get them to work together. Perhaps the item that was stolen has now bonded to the Gnome. It could be slowly counting down and could be a dooms day device that they need to turn off some how. This of course would mean you would have to change the campaign but I think it would probably keep them together. Make sure to let them know that if the Gnome dies or it is removed from them that something bad will happen.
This means they have to work with the Gnome and the Gnome has to work with them. No one wants an apocalypse.
I'd have a chat with the players. I've had similar characters in games who were fundamentally incompatible. In one, a magic hating 1e barbarian and a gnome illusionist/thief. The gnome hid his magical interests from the barbarian until late in the campaign the party discovered an artifact that the barbarian wanted to destroy and the gnome could not imagine it. The gnome stole the artifact and escaped but that was the end of that particular character in that campaign. However, as DM, the fundamental incompatibility was pretty obvious from the beginning, it was only a matter of time until things went sideways.
Your case sounds like there may be similarities since you mention character conflicts in the previous campaign. In this case, the gnome's objective appears to be the recovery of the magic items that belonged to his people and as a light fingered gnome, anything else that looked good.
Did the gnome know the half-orc was involved in the ceremony? Did the gnome know that the changeling was present and trying to make contact with another changeling? If the player is roleplaying their gnome character, they only really get to act on the information they know - anything more is metagaming. If the DM did not give the character the information that the other party members might be present which might moderate the character actions then it is hardly surprising that the gnome did things that would disrupt the other plot lines.
If the character knew the others were there and the player had the character choose to act recklessly without taking the other characters into account then the player is deciding that the gnome character doesn't care about the other adventurers in any way, their objectives come first, and the other characters are likely never going to adventure with the gnome ASSUMING that the other characters even know it was the gnome that disrupted the ceremony. However, it sounded like the gnome used disguise self so the odds are good they didn't look like themselves when entering or leaving - so there is a possibility that the other characters have no idea it was the gnome that disrupted the ceremony.
Anyway, the bottom line is that we could use more details before offering advice since it isn't clear where things fell apart.
- did the DM just not give the characters (not players) the information needed
- a DM can't really expect the characters to metagame (oh - my party members are present I better not mess up their plot lines) - the player can only really play the character based on what the character knows. Did the character know about the other characters reasons to be at the ceremony?
- if the character knew and decided to so obviously disrupt the meeting causing issues for the other character then the player decided that the character doesn't want to be in the party and there isn't a way to salvage it - the gnome likely has to go.
- if the character was unaware, then the player just decided what the gnome would do to achieve their goals and the DM can't expect the player to metagame it - this comes back to the DM not managing the information to the characters
-----------------
In terms of getting back on some sort of track ...
1) This is a bounty hunting guild. Have them hire a cleric to cast locate object and trace the artifacts, capture the gnome and then decide whether to execute them or offer them a reprieve. Send a powerful group of bounty hunters - this shouldn't even be close - they have to make an example of someone disrupting a ceremony and stealing items.
2) If the character deliberately screwed up everyone else's plans then let the guild execute him since he is obviously not trustworthy enough to adventure with. If the character did not know what was going on and only wanted to recover the gnomish artifacts the perhaps the guild has a deal that can be made. Have the gnome recover some other artifact that they want in exchange for their life. You can tie that artifact into whatever the ongoing plot line might be.
There are other options ... the guild captures all three characters since they find out they have been working together ... chains them up and hands them over as slaves to some drow or duergar who take them off to the underdark. This option depends on whether the rest of the party can ever work with the gnome again.
Water under the bridge, but you did set up a situation where the best interests of the PCs became incompatible. I'm sure you didn't intend or expect things to go this far south, but one PC intending to steal from another PC's organization can obviously have some adverse consequences.
I'd see about giving the gnome a chance to redeem himself, requiring the others' help to do so. Any chance of something to be found or done in those gnome lands that can be tied to both the bounty hunter guild and the changeling's ancestry (preferably not something that would greatly upset the gnomes)? Remains of a legendary lost bounty hunter group gone missing somewhere the gnomes won't allow outsiders? With whatever they were hunting potentially responsible for the changeling losing contact with his father? Just spitballing, but I'd definitely look for something that would tie into the transgressions the gnome made and making up for them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
My Thoughts regarding "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." ie all of them captured in the Underdark
I think I would resort to grabbing the Story wheel and doing a fade to black...
Any RP actions of the players at this point seem very likely to further divide the party and as they are most likely separated why should they be in on what the others are doing... The Gnome most likely is laying low making a getaway or fencing off the loot... The Orc and Changeling under suspicion of being in on it all along...
So I would fade to black... leaving the past few weeks as a haizy drugged out fragmented memory... did someone I trust betray me? set me up and sell me out as a slave to the Drow!?!... It's all uncertain the only thing certain now is the pain and the darkness
"Okay guys, I know your characters don't see eye to eye, but for this game to work you need to work together. How can we make that happen?"
That's where I'd start. Don't let the players run off down the "that's what my character would do" path when it sabotages the game. D&D requires a social contract. Presumably you all want to continue with the campaign, so you can work out together how the group manages to stay together. Their input allows them to find their own reasons for their characters to do what they need to do.
Also, next time the gnome pulls out a bomb, you can pause the game and fill them in on the consequences. Bombing a social gathering is a massive escalation from just stealing an item, and the world's response to that action should be proportionate to the crime.
And here's where "roam free in the sandbox, my pretties!" falls down.
D&D campaigns need to have a story. It doesn't sound like there was a story here, only a sandbox in which to roam in. So what were the characters supposed to be doing? What mission binds them together? What is the problem that they're trying to solve?
It sounds like you essentially have a group of PCs who don't really care for one another, and have no reason to be doing anything together. So in order for the game to be fun, they have to make their own fun - and in this case, the gnome decided to blow things up. Why didn't the gnome involve the orc? I guess the characters don't like one another?
D&D is a collaborative game, in which the players need to work together. What did they have to work together on? Reclaim the storytelling from the players, and put them into the story that you intend to run, making it really clear both in game and outside the game that they have to work together.
And here's where "roam free in the sandbox, my pretties!" falls down.
D&D campaigns need to have a story. It doesn't sound like there was a story here, only a sandbox in which to roam in. So what were the characters supposed to be doing? What mission binds them together? What is the problem that they're trying to solve?
It sounds like you essentially have a group of PCs who don't really care for one another, and have no reason to be doing anything together. So in order for the game to be fun, they have to make their own fun - and in this case, the gnome decided to blow things up. Why didn't the gnome involve the orc? I guess the characters don't like one another?
D&D is a collaborative game, in which the players need to work together. What did they have to work together on? Reclaim the storytelling from the players, and put them into the story that you intend to run, making it really clear both in game and outside the game that they have to work together.
"After going over what happened in the time in between campaigns, I gave each player a hook that would get them in the same place again to start the next campaign."
Sounds to me like that was the intent, even if the execution fell flat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
My Thoughts regarding "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." ie all of them captured in the Underdark... I think I would resort to grabbing the Story wheel and doing a fade to black...
"Okay guys, I know your characters don't see eye to eye, but for this game to work you need to work together. How can we make that happen?"... That's where I'd start...
Hi there scatterbraind I see you quoted me there, not sure if it was just as a continuation on the theme of "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." or if you wanted a direct response from me... So I'll be so presumptive
Yeah I couldn't agree more with what scatterbraind said about needing that initial talk with the players about how things can move forward together, I wouldn't suggest a "fade to black" without that talk as some way of glossing over that our "team hero" has some major issues it needs to sort out...
If the players want to continue I still think a fade to black dumping them in captivity in the underdark were you wanted them for the campaign isn't a bad idea, it would leave tantalising questions if they ever make it back... who sold them out to the Drow? was it the Bounty Hunter Guild so that they'd get there relic's back or a greedy contact of gnome perhaps... loads of possibilities and all totally irrelevant when faced with the immediate predicament of being a slave of the Drow in the depths of the Underdark.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
First I want to thank everyone for their responses. I've put myself in a bit of a pickle here, but I am confident I can get through this. The good news is about this is at the players themselves are not mad at each other at all. It's the player characters that are currently in turmoil. I'm sure the players aren't the most pleased with the way that session turned out, but nobody wants anybody off the table. We just might need one new character if we can't turn this around.
The players and the player characters are from a previous 18 session campaign.
I I do take a solid amount of responsibility for the way this came out. When I sent the gnome his exact hook for getting him into the city where the other two PCs were, I had said to him that the artifacts in question were rumored to have been stolen, the key word there was rumored.
I had thought of a few different scenarios, including him inquiring into the item seeing if the rumors were true, then I thought maybe he would steal them quietly, then I thought maybe he would ask the changeling for help and again steal it quietly. The changeling and him had done a couple of nefarious things in the previous campaign, and I thought that might happen too. The changeling even tried, which made me really happy when I saw it happening. The changeling suggested at one point, as he saw him at the ceremony, that they should wait and not do it right now, they could come back later under the cover of darkness and do it quietly.
The gnome however seemed determined to do this immediately. And after getting a, are you sure about this, from the DM and the changeling, he still went forward with it. I don't know, maybe I didn't give him enough information. I definitely saw this going differently.
To answer a few more questions, The gnome did not know that the orc was at the guild initially. However upon entering if he 100% noticed the orc. And knew he was there. He also knew he was part of the ceremony as he could see him at the center, along with other guild members. And his actions did not stop the orcs promotion, or stop the changeling from meeting his contact. However the changelings contact did say he would get back to him with more information, and the changeling was upset that he could have killed the contact.
Lot of people, on this form and another that I asked the same question on, seem to think this is an opportunity for a character arc. I do like the idea, I just have to get them all there. I've been talking with the three players, to see what they think is doable. I'm working on trying to get the gnome to turn himself in, and bring back the two artifacts, as opposed to living a life on the run being hunted nonstop by a bounty hunter guild. Luckily for the gnome, when the orc player and myself loosely piece together a bounty hunter guilt for him to join, we did take the time to note that most bounty hunters in all sorts of media, movies television comics etc... Usually require their targets to be delivered alive, and don't just go around killing everyone they see.
With this in mind, myself the changeling and the orc have come up with interesting idea. We think that when the gnome turns himself in, he should go on trial for his actions. We're picturing a hilarious comedic trial, something of a mix between the episode of always Sunny in Philadelphia where they go to court, and a mixture of the final episode of Seinfeld.
He will obviously be found guilty, and it will be sentenced into service of the guild for one very dangerous bounty, without any compensation. I do want him to have some consequences for his actions as well so I think, being newly promoted, he will be in service to the Orc for the duration of this bounty.
Luckily, in the previous campaign the party, while breaking the orc out of prison, inadvertently released many other prisoners; including one very dangerous high-profile criminal. As of yet I have done nothing with that criminal, until now. I'm thinking that I could say that the guild was the one who initially caught him, and that him escaping has the guild concern that he's back on the loose. The Guild does not know it was a party who released him, and honestly I don't think they need to. To them it was just another prisoner escaping. It happens.
Along with substantial monetary punishment, I think this is an excellent way to get the party back together, and help them trust each other again. It also keeps the gnome alive, while I think having decent consequences for his actions.
All credit to you for trying to give your player/s a way out of the hole that they dug for themselves. Players made their own choices and their choices aren't your responsibility. A potentially rewarding challenge for the players could be to find their own way out. Otherwise it could leave a vivid rp memory of a campaign that went fantastically wrong. :D
The big reason that I felt like I had to kind of give them away out is because the two other characters, the changeling and the orc, stated that they don't see how they could trust the gnome again. Which I do kind of get. So without the gnome feeling remorseful, and coming back to confessed his crimes, I don't see how the changeling and the orc could get any closure, and the party would essentially be broken up.
It would just end with the orc and the changeling going on adventures and hanging out, and the gnome would be alone in the woods somewhere. I definitely I'm not against a little bit of conflict in the party, I do feel that I created too much though. That's also why I felt like I needed to help out and give them away out. As I said before, I definitely am at least partially responsible for this outcome. I am the DM after all. I could have just said lightning strikes you in the face and stopped you.
...does the gnome want to turn himself in? Unless I misread something, it sounds like you and the other players are kind of pressuring him to effectively retcon his choices, which doesn't sit well with me. If he's cool with it and wants his gnome to be contrite, then that's one thing. But the wording made it seem like there's only external, and metagamey, motivation to turn himself in. That kind of corrective tactic really douses player agency and can come across as ganging up on a player for playing "wrong."
Ideas to unite the party without forcing the gnome to confess:
- Make the stolen item vital to the ongoing plot, fast. (E.g., "Wow, it's actually sentient and has info about our main quest! Too bad it hates gnomes and will only talk to the others.") - Make the gnome's theft a good thing. (E.g. "Stealing it prevented bad guys from raiding the guild and killing everyone for it. Gotta play keepaway, but now the gnome has hitmen after him cuz one saw him.") - Make it a cursed object that endangers the gnome's life - or a lovable NPC's, if it's taken too far away. Gotta return it soon or they could die.
Fractured trust can be a fun dynamic to have in a party, for a little while. Don't worry about rushing to make things copacetic. (A rather similar situation happened in my campaign recently, only the PCs in question didn't roll well enough to get away. I had them choose their own punishments, and made it so that the sentencing actually gave the party access to NPCs that could help them in their quest. The incident nearly made the party split for good, but the RP that's come out of this has been really great. Then again, my players love RP and are comfortable if the party dynamic has friction.)
Hope that helps with the brainstorming!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
TLDR version of what happened.
The Orc had joined a bounty hunter's guild and was being promoted in a ceremony. The Gnome had heard through a contact that during this ceremony, guild artifacts come out and are more easily stolen; including some old Gnomish artifacts looted from his home country. The Changling was there after hearing that a guild member was a Changling, and may have information on his missing father.
I thought at worst the Gnome would try to quietly steal a specific Gnomish item during the ceremony; in fact I'd hoped he would. What ended up happening was he set off an oil bomb during the ceremony, setting the ceremonial room on fire, stealing the Gnomish artifact along with another important item to the guild. This also ruined the Changling's chances of meeting his contact and getting information on his missing father.
The Gnome escaped by disguising himself and blending in the the crowd escaping the flames. The other two PCs are talking about not speaking to him again and having him hunted, he did attack a bounty hunter's guild, even killing him if they saw him again.
There had been tension in the previous campaign, between the PCs, not the players, but not like this. This felt different, I even think the players are a bit upset.
I'm at a bit of a loss here as to what my next step should be. I don't really know how to get this party back together. Is this my fault? I am not the most experienced DM, but I don't feel like the events that lead up to the oil bomb were really avoidable. He was in the rear of the room, reached into his bag and just set it off, I don't know how I would have stopped him, or if I even should have.
The only idea I had at all was to somehow get them all captured in the Underdark; which is where the campaign was going to take them anyway. But I don't even know how to get them to that point.
Anyone ever had a scenario like this? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
You, as the DM, need to work with the situation you have and the players themselves to push them together again. What's happened is an interesting plot point and a cool part of the story you're making, so build on it!
Perhaps have the guild catch the thief PC and summon the Orc, and explain that they know that the Orc has had previous dealings with the gnome thief and that the gnome's actions have dishonoured him. They offer a chance for the thief to be spared, as the Orc is a member of the guild, but they will need to bring in a bounty as a service to the guild; not getting the money for it. The Gnome should feel like they owe the Orc for ruining things (discuss wit hthe player to get them on board before the session) and the Orc should feel like they should save the Gnome as they have adventured together before.
The changeling can get involved as they wish to meet the changeling in the guild, so this could be their way in.
run a side-quest for the guild, if possible make it loosely connected to the main plot you have planned in some way (drop the plothooks in there) and when it's complete, the guild can advise the Orc not to bring their Gnome friend to guild ceremonies again, and the changeling may have a chance to meet their contact.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Oh Boy! I've not had to face this situation as a DM though I've experienced it as a player at least twice and it's always ended with someone leaving the group. It rather left me feeling pessimistic at your chances of maybe getting this group back together and then I read the sentence...
"The only idea I had at all was to somehow get them all captured in the Underdark; which is where the campaign was going to take them anyway. "
And it reminded me of the campaign setup for OotA - Out of the Abyss and I thought wow that might actually work! it would even add to that initial scenario of which NPC's can I really trust
I do wish you luck in your DM'ing predicament and would love to hear how it turns out in the future, if you'd care to post a follow up I think it would be really useful for others
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
So first of all, its not your fault as a dm. You might feel responsible for what happens at the table, but you are not.
Rp is like improv theatre, and there are always rules where each actor/player should act upon. Its each and everyone of them who are responsible for their own choices. In short, improv means: say yes and, build upon informatiob with new information, and never block other actors/players.
These are 3 set rules I clearly state at the start of a campaign, and which I give when I see something happening which is going against the rule of 3.
The player went obviously mad, and goes against the rule of cornering other players. I would immediatly talk to the player, and explain why this is problematic behaviour to build a story on. Does he not agree? Fine, his character is now an npc, and the party has a new quest. This player would leave my table, or role a new pc and make sure everyone builds a story together.
The second option is the 'yes, and..' rule. Yes this happened, and he got caught and has remorse, he now owes favors. The other party members might build upon this with new info. This was clearly important to his pc, what drove him, and maybe there is a story hidden in this.
Bu the responsibility boils down to this one player. Rp is storybuilding together.
I think it can be quite common for characters to each have priorities and behaviours such that, but for the metagaming goodwill of the players, some of the characters might want nothing to do with some of the others. Most characters, at least partly, stay together for the sake of a good game. They may even, in some circumstances, tolerate a Leeroy Jenkins.
In some dramas including sit coms it's common for characters even to be developed so that they jar with one another and yet they still stick together mainly for the shits and giggles of the writer or audience. Sometimes players may choose to lean into this, or they may not.
Why isn't that goodwill there? It may not be your fault. With the level of concern that you're expressing, I doubt it is. What are the player's relationships like generally?
As far as characters are concerned, they may tolerate another character if they at least contribute more positives than negatives.
How would it be for the offending character to be hunted down? How would that be for them? Is there bullying involved? Is there a reason to step in or mediate? Could hunting a hunting down arc fit in with the story? If so, would this be something that you wouldn't like to encourage? If not, what would you do with collected magic items on a losing side? Would it be possible for the offending player to bring in a new character?
There could certainly be learning points in the situation? If PvP is acceptable to the players and if it's something you'd be prepared to run then there could be options.
If players take those options, there could be implications.
My Thoughts regarding "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." ie all of them captured in the Underdark
I think I would resort to grabbing the Story wheel and doing a fade to black...
Any RP actions of the players at this point seem very likely to further divide the party and as they are most likely separated why should they be in on what the others are doing...
The Gnome most likely is laying low making a getaway or fencing off the loot...
The Orc and Changeling under suspicion of being in on it all along...
So I would fade to black... leaving the past few weeks as a haizy drugged out fragmented memory... did someone I trust betray me? set me up and sell me out as a slave to the Drow!?!... It's all uncertain the only thing certain now is the pain and the darkness
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I have an idea of how you can get them to work together. Perhaps the item that was stolen has now bonded to the Gnome. It could be slowly counting down and could be a dooms day device that they need to turn off some how. This of course would mean you would have to change the campaign but I think it would probably keep them together. Make sure to let them know that if the Gnome dies or it is removed from them that something bad will happen.
This means they have to work with the Gnome and the Gnome has to work with them. No one wants an apocalypse.
I'd have a chat with the players. I've had similar characters in games who were fundamentally incompatible. In one, a magic hating 1e barbarian and a gnome illusionist/thief. The gnome hid his magical interests from the barbarian until late in the campaign the party discovered an artifact that the barbarian wanted to destroy and the gnome could not imagine it. The gnome stole the artifact and escaped but that was the end of that particular character in that campaign. However, as DM, the fundamental incompatibility was pretty obvious from the beginning, it was only a matter of time until things went sideways.
Your case sounds like there may be similarities since you mention character conflicts in the previous campaign. In this case, the gnome's objective appears to be the recovery of the magic items that belonged to his people and as a light fingered gnome, anything else that looked good.
Did the gnome know the half-orc was involved in the ceremony? Did the gnome know that the changeling was present and trying to make contact with another changeling? If the player is roleplaying their gnome character, they only really get to act on the information they know - anything more is metagaming. If the DM did not give the character the information that the other party members might be present which might moderate the character actions then it is hardly surprising that the gnome did things that would disrupt the other plot lines.
If the character knew the others were there and the player had the character choose to act recklessly without taking the other characters into account then the player is deciding that the gnome character doesn't care about the other adventurers in any way, their objectives come first, and the other characters are likely never going to adventure with the gnome ASSUMING that the other characters even know it was the gnome that disrupted the ceremony. However, it sounded like the gnome used disguise self so the odds are good they didn't look like themselves when entering or leaving - so there is a possibility that the other characters have no idea it was the gnome that disrupted the ceremony.
Anyway, the bottom line is that we could use more details before offering advice since it isn't clear where things fell apart.
- did the DM just not give the characters (not players) the information needed
- a DM can't really expect the characters to metagame (oh - my party members are present I better not mess up their plot lines) - the player can only really play the character based on what the character knows. Did the character know about the other characters reasons to be at the ceremony?
- if the character knew and decided to so obviously disrupt the meeting causing issues for the other character then the player decided that the character doesn't want to be in the party and there isn't a way to salvage it - the gnome likely has to go.
- if the character was unaware, then the player just decided what the gnome would do to achieve their goals and the DM can't expect the player to metagame it - this comes back to the DM not managing the information to the characters
-----------------
In terms of getting back on some sort of track ...
1) This is a bounty hunting guild. Have them hire a cleric to cast locate object and trace the artifacts, capture the gnome and then decide whether to execute them or offer them a reprieve. Send a powerful group of bounty hunters - this shouldn't even be close - they have to make an example of someone disrupting a ceremony and stealing items.
2) If the character deliberately screwed up everyone else's plans then let the guild execute him since he is obviously not trustworthy enough to adventure with. If the character did not know what was going on and only wanted to recover the gnomish artifacts the perhaps the guild has a deal that can be made. Have the gnome recover some other artifact that they want in exchange for their life. You can tie that artifact into whatever the ongoing plot line might be.
There are other options ... the guild captures all three characters since they find out they have been working together ... chains them up and hands them over as slaves to some drow or duergar who take them off to the underdark. This option depends on whether the rest of the party can ever work with the gnome again.
Watch Avengers movies, the bulk of their arcs are about them coming together after some intra mural beefing.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Water under the bridge, but you did set up a situation where the best interests of the PCs became incompatible. I'm sure you didn't intend or expect things to go this far south, but one PC intending to steal from another PC's organization can obviously have some adverse consequences.
I'd see about giving the gnome a chance to redeem himself, requiring the others' help to do so. Any chance of something to be found or done in those gnome lands that can be tied to both the bounty hunter guild and the changeling's ancestry (preferably not something that would greatly upset the gnomes)? Remains of a legendary lost bounty hunter group gone missing somewhere the gnomes won't allow outsiders? With whatever they were hunting potentially responsible for the changeling losing contact with his father? Just spitballing, but I'd definitely look for something that would tie into the transgressions the gnome made and making up for them.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"Okay guys, I know your characters don't see eye to eye, but for this game to work you need to work together. How can we make that happen?"
That's where I'd start. Don't let the players run off down the "that's what my character would do" path when it sabotages the game. D&D requires a social contract. Presumably you all want to continue with the campaign, so you can work out together how the group manages to stay together. Their input allows them to find their own reasons for their characters to do what they need to do.
Also, next time the gnome pulls out a bomb, you can pause the game and fill them in on the consequences. Bombing a social gathering is a massive escalation from just stealing an item, and the world's response to that action should be proportionate to the crime.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
And here's where "roam free in the sandbox, my pretties!" falls down.
D&D campaigns need to have a story. It doesn't sound like there was a story here, only a sandbox in which to roam in. So what were the characters supposed to be doing? What mission binds them together? What is the problem that they're trying to solve?
It sounds like you essentially have a group of PCs who don't really care for one another, and have no reason to be doing anything together. So in order for the game to be fun, they have to make their own fun - and in this case, the gnome decided to blow things up. Why didn't the gnome involve the orc? I guess the characters don't like one another?
D&D is a collaborative game, in which the players need to work together. What did they have to work together on? Reclaim the storytelling from the players, and put them into the story that you intend to run, making it really clear both in game and outside the game that they have to work together.
"After going over what happened in the time in between campaigns, I gave each player a hook that would get them in the same place again to start the next campaign."
Sounds to me like that was the intent, even if the execution fell flat.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Hi there scatterbraind I see you quoted me there, not sure if it was just as a continuation on the theme of "But I don't even know how to get them to that point." or if you wanted a direct response from me... So I'll be so presumptive
Yeah I couldn't agree more with what scatterbraind said about needing that initial talk with the players about how things can move forward together, I wouldn't suggest a "fade to black" without that talk as some way of glossing over that our "team hero" has some major issues it needs to sort out...
If the players want to continue I still think a fade to black dumping them in captivity in the underdark were you wanted them for the campaign isn't a bad idea, it would leave tantalising questions if they ever make it back... who sold them out to the Drow? was it the Bounty Hunter Guild so that they'd get there relic's back or a greedy contact of gnome perhaps... loads of possibilities and all totally irrelevant when faced with the immediate predicament of being a slave of the Drow in the depths of the Underdark.
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I am a little confused, is this a brand new campaign for the players and characters, or have they played these characters in a prior campaign?
First I want to thank everyone for their responses. I've put myself in a bit of a pickle here, but I am confident I can get through this. The good news is about this is at the players themselves are not mad at each other at all. It's the player characters that are currently in turmoil. I'm sure the players aren't the most pleased with the way that session turned out, but nobody wants anybody off the table. We just might need one new character if we can't turn this around.
The players and the player characters are from a previous 18 session campaign.
I I do take a solid amount of responsibility for the way this came out. When I sent the gnome his exact hook for getting him into the city where the other two PCs were, I had said to him that the artifacts in question were rumored to have been stolen, the key word there was rumored.
I had thought of a few different scenarios, including him inquiring into the item seeing if the rumors were true, then I thought maybe he would steal them quietly, then I thought maybe he would ask the changeling for help and again steal it quietly. The changeling and him had done a couple of nefarious things in the previous campaign, and I thought that might happen too. The changeling even tried, which made me really happy when I saw it happening. The changeling suggested at one point, as he saw him at the ceremony, that they should wait and not do it right now, they could come back later under the cover of darkness and do it quietly.
The gnome however seemed determined to do this immediately. And after getting a, are you sure about this, from the DM and the changeling, he still went forward with it. I don't know, maybe I didn't give him enough information. I definitely saw this going differently.
To answer a few more questions, The gnome did not know that the orc was at the guild initially. However upon entering if he 100% noticed the orc. And knew he was there. He also knew he was part of the ceremony as he could see him at the center, along with other guild members. And his actions did not stop the orcs promotion, or stop the changeling from meeting his contact. However the changelings contact did say he would get back to him with more information, and the changeling was upset that he could have killed the contact.
Lot of people, on this form and another that I asked the same question on, seem to think this is an opportunity for a character arc. I do like the idea, I just have to get them all there. I've been talking with the three players, to see what they think is doable. I'm working on trying to get the gnome to turn himself in, and bring back the two artifacts, as opposed to living a life on the run being hunted nonstop by a bounty hunter guild. Luckily for the gnome, when the orc player and myself loosely piece together a bounty hunter guilt for him to join, we did take the time to note that most bounty hunters in all sorts of media, movies television comics etc... Usually require their targets to be delivered alive, and don't just go around killing everyone they see.
With this in mind, myself the changeling and the orc have come up with interesting idea. We think that when the gnome turns himself in, he should go on trial for his actions. We're picturing a hilarious comedic trial, something of a mix between the episode of always Sunny in Philadelphia where they go to court, and a mixture of the final episode of Seinfeld.
He will obviously be found guilty, and it will be sentenced into service of the guild for one very dangerous bounty, without any compensation. I do want him to have some consequences for his actions as well so I think, being newly promoted, he will be in service to the Orc for the duration of this bounty.
Luckily, in the previous campaign the party, while breaking the orc out of prison, inadvertently released many other prisoners; including one very dangerous high-profile criminal. As of yet I have done nothing with that criminal, until now. I'm thinking that I could say that the guild was the one who initially caught him, and that him escaping has the guild concern that he's back on the loose. The Guild does not know it was a party who released him, and honestly I don't think they need to. To them it was just another prisoner escaping. It happens.
Along with substantial monetary punishment, I think this is an excellent way to get the party back together, and help them trust each other again. It also keeps the gnome alive, while I think having decent consequences for his actions.
Thoughts?
All credit to you for trying to give your player/s a way out of the hole that they dug for themselves.
Players made their own choices and their choices aren't your responsibility.
A potentially rewarding challenge for the players could be to find their own way out.
Otherwise it could leave a vivid rp memory of a campaign that went fantastically wrong. :D
The big reason that I felt like I had to kind of give them away out is because the two other characters, the changeling and the orc, stated that they don't see how they could trust the gnome again. Which I do kind of get. So without the gnome feeling remorseful, and coming back to confessed his crimes, I don't see how the changeling and the orc could get any closure, and the party would essentially be broken up.
It would just end with the orc and the changeling going on adventures and hanging out, and the gnome would be alone in the woods somewhere. I definitely I'm not against a little bit of conflict in the party, I do feel that I created too much though. That's also why I felt like I needed to help out and give them away out. As I said before, I definitely am at least partially responsible for this outcome. I am the DM after all. I could have just said lightning strikes you in the face and stopped you.
...does the gnome want to turn himself in? Unless I misread something, it sounds like you and the other players are kind of pressuring him to effectively retcon his choices, which doesn't sit well with me. If he's cool with it and wants his gnome to be contrite, then that's one thing. But the wording made it seem like there's only external, and metagamey, motivation to turn himself in. That kind of corrective tactic really douses player agency and can come across as ganging up on a player for playing "wrong."
Ideas to unite the party without forcing the gnome to confess:
- Make the stolen item vital to the ongoing plot, fast. (E.g., "Wow, it's actually sentient and has info about our main quest! Too bad it hates gnomes and will only talk to the others.")
- Make the gnome's theft a good thing. (E.g. "Stealing it prevented bad guys from raiding the guild and killing everyone for it. Gotta play keepaway, but now the gnome has hitmen after him cuz one saw him.")
- Make it a cursed object that endangers the gnome's life - or a lovable NPC's, if it's taken too far away. Gotta return it soon or they could die.
Fractured trust can be a fun dynamic to have in a party, for a little while. Don't worry about rushing to make things copacetic. (A rather similar situation happened in my campaign recently, only the PCs in question didn't roll well enough to get away. I had them choose their own punishments, and made it so that the sentencing actually gave the party access to NPCs that could help them in their quest. The incident nearly made the party split for good, but the RP that's come out of this has been really great. Then again, my players love RP and are comfortable if the party dynamic has friction.)
Hope that helps with the brainstorming!