I desperately need your help. Tonight, I ran a session where the party made a bad deal. My instincts tell me there should be consequences but I don't know how to do that without making it feel like im punishing my players.
For some context:
The parties involved: The party, for a while now, has been dealing with a criminal organization that is hounding them because a member of the party is a known affiliate and friend of an NPC that has a massive debt to this organization. Speaking of multiple tens of thousands of gold. The NPC with the debt had disappeared. So the criminals went to the party and told them to find the NPC and bring him to them otherwise family of the party would be harmed. These family members had already been picked up by the organization. The party went on a long quest, eventually finding the NPC and bringing them back.
This NPC didn't want to come with the party at first because he feared of what the criminal organization would do to him. The party convinced him to come with them, telling him that they would protect him. Using their building reputation as proof that they could. Reluctantly, this npc came with them and eventually a meeting was setup where the prisoner would be exchanged.
The deal: At this meeting, the party learned that not only did family of the affiliated party member get captured. Also a family member that had been recruited by the party to aid them while they were away on their quest. The criminals had treated the family members fairly and explained that if the NPC was given to them, they would let the party's family go free.
At first the party tried to give another party member disguised with the 'disguise self' spell to the criminals. But eventually the party chose to reveal this trick because they feared that if the spell ran out before the family members were released, the family would be killed. So they ended up giving the NPC to the criminals.
They tried following the criminals to their hideout but got discovered and chose to stop following close behind. Eventually, through the use of a Locate Creature spell, they ended up finding out that their base was underground and guessed that there would be a hidden entrance in a nearby shady tavern that is known (in the backstory of the affiliate party member) to be connected to the criminal organization. Fearing that the family members would be killed if they stormed the hideout, the party decided to give up the chase and return to the place they were staying at in the hope that eventually their family would be set free. And a few hours (in game) later they found out that because the party held up their end of the deal, the criminals did as well and set the family free.
The aftermath: Now the party has chosen to bring the family members to safety in a town a few days away from the city where the criminals are situated in. That is where the session ended. With their family safe, but the NPC friend of one of the party members with a significant debt to the criminals in their custody and the party is leaving the city for a few days.
I don't really know how to handle this. I feel like I may have driven them too far into a corner and not given them enough options as they really seemed to fear that any action they would take against the criminals would result in the death of those family members. On the other end, I feel like their should be some consequences because of their inaction but I fear that that would feel like punishing them for not doing something that may have looked, from their perspective, as a really bad idea.
The Question: What should I do? The NPC is with the criminals now, and the criminals do know that the party attempted to follow them. Should there be consequences?
Edit to give more context: First of all, thank all of you for your replies and your perspectives.
I already had the idea that I may not have the ideal perspective to handle this situation properly and many of your replies have shown me that my initial thoughts on the matter may be more destructive to my game than I expected.
I also recognize that there was some context lacking. Because of this I wanna add to my original post here:
- My party is level 12 and has quite recently defeated both a mummy lord that was ruling over a fortress where they were building an undead army and a Nalfeshnee that was leading an orcish on a military campaign against the last elves on the continent. Meaning that they have already accomplished great feats and are (rightly so) very confident in their abilities. This criminal enterprize was never supposed to come up this late in the campaign but it happend to go this way because the party avoided them for a long time. Knowing this, I had planned for any combat encounter to be nearly trivial if they decided to go that way.
- The relation of the NPC to the party. The NPC is a gnomish archeologist/cartographer/historian/explorer. The barbarian of the party in their backstory was this person's apprentice. But when the NPC went missing after leaving on an expedition, the barbarian started doing cage fights for the criminals.
- Before the start of the campaign, the NPC was gone for 5 years without a trace until one day a fellow apprentice returned to the city with a map that could jumpstart a search for the npc. This other apprentice also got involved with the criminals because they were convinced that the other apprentice knew where the NPC was. The barbarian stole this map before fleeing the city and eventually joining up with the party. The barbarian had racked up a small 300 GP drinking debt that was supposed to be the reason the party would deal with the criminals early in the campaign. Where the party would be able to either fight them and it be a bit of a challenge or pay off the debt to get them off of their backs.
- Why the criminals gave this NPC such a large sum of money: The criminals mainly deal in human trafficking. The dwarven kingdom that is built underground is suffering from a severe overpopulation problem. This caused many of the poorer folk to spill out on the surface near the entrance to the underground kingdom where a large slum city has been formed over the past few centuries. This part of the kingdom is neglected by those who live underground which allowed for the criminal organization to bring their own law and order to this slum city. The NPC has previously aided the criminals in setting up a travel route for the criminals to aid them in transporting people across a wild part of the continent to a friendly gnomish city where often families would want to travel to start a new life. The criminals would then only send the father of a family for example and tell him that he has to earn and pay X amount of money to the criminals for them to also transport the rest of their family. This made it so that the NPC was already affiliated with the criminals due to a previous deal.
- The new deal the NPC had made was the following. This campaign takes place on a continent that is largely unexplored for various reasons but there are many traces of a vast rich magical empire hidden all over the unexplored areas. The NPC had always been interested as an archeologist and historian in this lost civilization. He wanted to explore and document his findings. It is well known that being an adventurer and delving in old ruins and such can be a lucrative (but dangerous) profession. The party themselves for example have previously delved into these ruins and uncovered large amounts of treasure and magical items. The NPC had made the deal with the criminals that if they funded his expedition, they would be given a large percentage of his findings as well as first knowledge of unexplored areas. The gold that was given to him had been mainly used on magical items that would make this expedition safe for someone who isn't a hardened fighter. As many of these unexplored places house dangers that could very easily kill the average person.
- The reason the NPC disappeared was because, on his long travel, he eventually found a hidden city of this lost civilization that wasn't abandoned. He found out that this civilization has continued to exist far away from the eyes of the gods who fought a war with this magical race of people and nearly destroyed them. This city allows travellers to stay in their city but they aren't allowed to leave. If they do want to leave, the rules of this city (which are sphinxes) will wipe a person's memory before teleporting them away from the city. That last thing is what happened to the other apprentice when they wanted to leave the city. They wanted to leave the city because the NPC had snuck out of the city after recieving visions of another ruin near the hidden city. He ended up being captured and petrified by the mummy lord (the one I mentioned at the start of this post). The apprentice wanted to find help and but the sphinxes saw the NPC's disappearance as a lost cause and didn't want to risk revealing their city. The map the other apprentice had indicated the location that she was teleported to by the sphinxes, which was somwhere partway through the expedition.
- The criminals had been searching for the barbarians as they know he was the one who stole the map that could eventually lead them to the NPC. The party avoided them for a long time but eventually was gifted a stronghold which gave the criminals a place to reliable find the barbarian. They approached him with the following offer: - Either find the NPC and return him to the criminals so he could pay off their debt. - Follow up on the deal that the NPC had made and share knowledge about the ruins and treasures that could be found there with the criminals so they can profit off of it that way. - Or bring back proof of the NPC's demise. This was because the criminals thought that the barbarian was in cahoots with the npc and stole the map to keep the npc's location hidden.
The party eventually managed to also find the hidden city, defeat the mummy lord and free the NPC. The party was given the privilege of leaving the city with their memories complete as a reward for aiding the party in defeating the mummy lord that was aiming to find the city and add its population to his growing army. The sphinxes also recognized that their secluded existence was nearly their doom and they would begin to consider to perhaps eventually make contact with the civilized world. Until they chose to do that however, the sphinxes requested their existence to be kept a secret.
- The party explained the situation to the NPC but as he didn't want to reveal the city's existence to the world yet he asked the party to think of some way to resolve this situation without either killing him or revealing the city to these criminals. The party, eventually, managed to convince the NPC to leave with them to go back towards the slum city. The NPC only came along when the party told him that they would keep him safe. The party travelled back to the civilized world through a teleportation circle and had to deal with the Nalfeshnee and its orcs almost immedietally after returning. This gave the players almost 2 months of real-world time to think of something to do with the NPC.
- Before leaving the elves and begin travel to the slum city, the NPC pleaded the party to make an actual plan. But because the party vastly overpowered him he could hardly force them from travelling there without any form of plan. The party was not willing to take much time to sit and plan as they wanted to go and save their family. Reluctantly, the npc came along with the party knowing that their best plan was:
'We set up a meeting and you (the npc) will say that you are sorry and that will be it.'
This is because the party didn't intend on handing over the npc as they did promise to keep him save.
- The party strolled into the city and went around with the npc in tow going past some contacts that the barbarian had in the slum city to try and setup some kind of meeting with the criminals. They didn't make any attempt at hiding their arrival or the fact that they had found the npc alive and well even though, at their 12th level, there were many ways for them to try and do so.
- When the party was given a time and place for the meeting, they chose to try and come up with tome type of plan. They would have the NPC invisible but nearby in case it was needed. But they decided that one of the smaller party members, an artificer who could cast disguise self, should be disguised as the npc so they could give the pc to the criminals and use that as a way to find out the location of their hideout.
- During the meeting the party met with a group of corrupt city guards who brought a magical mirror that basically allowed the party to have a magical zoom call with the criminals. The disguised pc was given to the criminals when it was proven that the family members that were in the criminals' custody were in good health and treated fairly. The 'zoom call' was ended and the pc began traveling with the corrupt guards. The party decided last second that they didn't dare the disguise self spell to be revealed so they chose to forcefully grab the invisible npc, make him reveal himself and handed him over to the guards after revealing the deception ahead of time. The guards were intimidated into not revealing that the party tried to trick them, which worked successfully, and the guards went on their way with the actual NPC.
- The party then tracked them to the guard outpost where they staked it out for a few hours until a duo of criminals showed up to take the npc to their hideout. And from there it goes like I said in my original post. The party tried to follow them, was found out and them followed them at a longer distance through the use of a locate person spell. Eventually find out that the npc was taken into an underground hideout with the party having a pretty good idea of where the entrance may be. But then decided not to act any further. And eventually the family members were, as per the agreement made during the zoom call, released. The family has no knowledge of the specifics of the hideout's location aside from knowing it was underground because they had to go up stairs when they were released. When they were released (and the party was told this) they were blindfolded while being transported from the hideout to their release point.
I hope this long summary gives a clearer picture of the situation. This may impact how some of you think about the situation, maybe not. If any of you had the time to read this, i'd love to hear what you think.
Honestly? I don’t necessarily see that the PC’s had any real choices here beyond the ones that were available. They tried, it seems, as best they could to protect their friend while keeping in mind that the lives of their family almost certainly came first. Their plans didn’t work out and they chose not to go full frontal assault on the criminal organization (which was probably very smart). They did what they could and it doesn’t sound like inaction occurred. I’d say that even though they tried to follow the criminals, the bad guys would let them go (business concluded). As far as the NPC friend goes? That could be inspiration for the party in future quests. Because the NPC *could* hope to pay the criminals back with favors (if they had particular skills or connections) or by working off their debt. But considering the NPC ran like they did, it’s extremely likely they don’t have the ability to do any of those things. I’d suggest having the criminals kill the NPC (in as tortuous a way as your campaign allows (burning at the stake?)) and leave the body in a public space that the PC’s can find, as a warning to those that do business with them.
Including local families in a campaign is tough. If I were the PC’s and this happened? I’d do as they have done (move the families as far away as they can) and then start adventuring in a location different from either the new town or the old one, and only come back to deal with that gang when they were more powerful. I don’t feel they should be rewarded (beyond seeing their families safe) or punished (especially that last one). This serves well as a defining moment in their adventuring careers that will drive them going forward. Perhaps to inspire them you might have a family friend offer them a suggestion of work to be found in whatever region you want to further explore in your world.
If you're looking for a "happy end" solution and your party is the kind of party: Give them the chance to make a extremly valuable hostage themselves, then exchange prisoners. Could be the cousin of one of their leaders, could be the accountant that keeps track of profit from operations (they could even let him go and just keep the books as evidence) or the only alchemist that knows the recipe to one of their drugs... all depends on what they are dabbling in, but you get the idea.
Edit: the criminals could also send npc friend to the lead mines, or sell him to a Hag...
If you're looking for a "happy end" solution and your party is the kind of party: Give them the chance to make a extremly valuable hostage themselves, then exchange prisoners. Could be the cousin of one of their leaders, could be the accountant that keeps track of profit from operations (they could even let him go and just keep the books as evidence) or the only alchemist that knows the recipe to one of their drugs... all depends on what they are dabbling in, but you get the idea.
Edit: the criminals could also send npc friend to the lead mines, or sell him to a Hag...
That seems like a very bad idea for the PC’s to try, unless their families are in a town that’s either really far away or in a town the criminals can’t touch (tough ruler, rival gang, whatever). Their families were kidnapped once, if they can possibly be reached again the criminals would have a really strong reason to hurt them as retaliation. Unless the PC’s really hated their family, that’s just not something that can be excused.
From what i read the family was already taken out of town, to somwhere days away. IF PCs pull through with such an action, they might have to still FO a little further away to some backwater village but at least friend npc would be free and they'd be together.
Fair enough. Like I said, If they’re 100% certain the family is safe, I can see justifying further messing with the gang. To me though, this seems like a wasted opportunity. I’d personally go with the friend dying and the PC’s having to run away for a while before coming back to avenge them.
I'm not real clear on what the screw up is here. If the org was going to kill the NPC, it seems like they've had plenty of chances to do that by now. You gave the party multiple people to protect and they're doing the best they can.
What are the criminals intentions with regards to the captured NPC? Were those intentions communicated to the party to help them weigh their decision? Could they have gotten a different picture of the situation than you had in your head? Presumably since the criminals went through all this trouble to get him, they have some plan for him. It seems like you could use this in a future plot by the criminal org without just killing the NPC because you expected the party to break him out and they didn't.
If the situation is merely that the npc had allot of debt then I imagine the mob has some kind of money making scheme to make back that debt.
The NPC has some kind of treasure the criminals will now pursue.
They intend to sell the npc some how. Perhaps they're an exotic species or sorcerer, maybe they have a large bounty or maybe they'll just slave
They need the npc to do something specific. Do a jobs, forge some papers or smuggle some drugs.
All of those have places the party could intervene. They'd have to be shipped out as a slave, they're friends could have left them clues for the treasure or they may be asked to follow up investigating some crime the npc is involved with. barring that, if they have find creature they definitely have the ability to track the npc if they want and if they choose not to it's their choice. The NPC ends up imprisoned somewhere for a crime/ as a slave or is killed after leading the criminals to some treasure etc...
Generally, when a criminal organization allows someone to go into debt like that it is because either the person in question can pay it back or the organization knows that said person has some form of collateral that they can collect on in one form or another. It is simply bad business to simply kill or enslave someone as it means either no or very little return on investment. This NPC is either very rich or knows something valuable that this criminal organization wants. Being as the NPC is in debt enough to run that removes being rich from the equation. The organization allowed the debt knowing full well it couldn't be paid back. This whole adventure arc here has just opened up what I would consider some very interesting plot hooks!
Generally, when a criminal organization allows someone to go into debt like that it is because either the person in question can pay it back or the organization knows that said person has some form of collateral that they can collect on in one form or another. It is simply bad business to simply kill or enslave someone as it means either no or very little return on investment. This NPC is either very rich or knows something valuable that this criminal organization wants. Being as the NPC is in debt enough to run that removes being rich from the equation. The organization allowed the debt knowing full well it couldn't be paid back. This whole adventure arc here has just opened up what I would consider some very interesting plot hooks!
Debt slavery is unfortunately a fairly common form of slavery. Criminal organizations are often dishonest with the debt by doing things like charging exorbitant interest or costs. Its not a financial risk to them as they made an unfair contract that costs them very little.
It can work pretty well as a plot point. An evil organization can be getting people hooked on drugs, gambling or doing people smuggling to force people in to debt and make them work for free.
The title of this thread is "My players made a bad deal. Should there be consequences".
And yet, when I read the description, the players did NOT make a bad deal .. they made the ONLY deal offered to them. Recover NPC in exchange for not killing family members.
If the DM wanted the players to do anything except track down the NPC and deliver them to the criminals in exchange for the release of the family members then it was up to the DM to provide those options. Instead, the DM created a classic hostage situation, gave the players orders as to what they had to do, and then the DM seems surprised that they did it, somehow thinking it was a bad deal. It was the only deal on the table, the only deal discussed and the only option possible in the circumstances assuming the party wasn't strong enough to defeat the entire criminal organization in a fight while also preventing the criminals from just deciding to kill the family members.
So, my question is really - what should there be consequences FOR? The story can proceed in several logical ways with lots of plot points but "consequences" usually refers to something bad happening to the characters as a result of their chosen actions. In this case, the DM gave them no other reasonable choices so I am not sure what "consequences" would mean in this context.
Generally, when a criminal organization allows someone to go into debt like that it is because either the person in question can pay it back or the organization knows that said person has some form of collateral that they can collect on in one form or another. It is simply bad business to simply kill or enslave someone as it means either no or very little return on investment. This NPC is either very rich or knows something valuable that this criminal organization wants. Being as the NPC is in debt enough to run that removes being rich from the equation. The organization allowed the debt knowing full well it couldn't be paid back. This whole adventure arc here has just opened up what I would consider some very interesting plot hooks!
Debt slavery is unfortunately a fairly common form of slavery. Criminal organizations are often dishonest with the debt by doing things like charging exorbitant interest or costs. Its not a financial risk to them as they made an unfair contract that costs them very little.
It can work pretty well as a plot point. An evil organization can be getting people hooked on drugs, gambling or doing people smuggling to force people in to debt and make them work for free.
You are indeed 100% correct. In clarification to my point, this particular NPC fellow, is a friend/affiliate to the PCs. He is in debt to the tune of 10's of thousands of gold pieces. That is a massive investment that a criminal organization has placed in this fellow who then did a runner. Small city states would be wary of expending vast amounts of cash like that. That leads me to think the NPC isn't in for run of the mill gambling debt to a loan shark but that something much bigger is going on here. The NPC also had the ability and wherewithal to stay hidden and away from said organization who were then forced to coerce the Player party to track him down for them. It could definitely be an interesting plot brewing. Why did the organization lend so much cash to one guy? What do they know that the party doesn't? What does our debt ridden NPC know? The plot hook thickens!
First of all, thank all of you for your replies and your perspectives.
I already had the idea that I may not have the ideal perspective to handle this situation properly and many of your replies have shown me that my initial thoughts on the matter may be more destructive to my game than I expected.
I also recognize that there was some context lacking. Because of this I wanna add to my original post here:
- My party is level 12 and has quite recently defeated both a mummy lord that was ruling over a fortress where they were building an undead army and a Nalfeshnee that was leading an orcish on a military campaign against the last elves on the continent. Meaning that they have already accomplished great feats and are (rightly so) very confident in their abilities. This criminal enterprize was never supposed to come up this late in the campaign but it happend to go this way because the party avoided them for a long time. Knowing this, I had planned for any combat encounter to be nearly trivial if they decided to go that way.
- The relation of the NPC to the party. The NPC is a gnomish archeologist/cartographer/historian/explorer. The barbarian of the party in their backstory was this person's apprentice. But when the NPC went missing after leaving on an expedition, the barbarian started doing cage fights for the criminals.
- Before the start of the campaign, the NPC was gone for 5 years without a trace until one day a fellow apprentice returned to the city with a map that could jumpstart a search for the npc. This other apprentice also got involved with the criminals because they were convinced that the other apprentice knew where the NPC was. The barbarian stole this map before fleeing the city and eventually joining up with the party. The barbarian had racked up a small 300 GP drinking debt that was supposed to be the reason the party would deal with the criminals early in the campaign. Where the party would be able to either fight them and it be a bit of a challenge or pay off the debt to get them off of their backs.
- Why the criminals gave this NPC such a large sum of money: The criminals mainly deal in human trafficking. The dwarven kingdom that is built underground is suffering from a severe overpopulation problem. This caused many of the poorer folk to spill out on the surface near the entrance to the underground kingdom where a large slum city has been formed over the past few centuries. This part of the kingdom is neglected by those who live underground which allowed for the criminal organization to bring their own law and order to this slum city. The NPC has previously aided the criminals in setting up a travel route for the criminals to aid them in transporting people across a wild part of the continent to a friendly gnomish city where often families would want to travel to start a new life. The criminals would then only send the father of a family for example and tell him that he has to earn and pay X amount of money to the criminals for them to also transport the rest of their family. This made it so that the NPC was already affiliated with the criminals due to a previous deal.
- The new deal the NPC had made was the following. This campaign takes place on a continent that is largely unexplored for various reasons but there are many traces of a vast rich magical empire hidden all over the unexplored areas. The NPC had always been interested as an archeologist and historian in this lost civilization. He wanted to explore and document his findings. It is well known that being an adventurer and delving in old ruins and such can be a lucrative (but dangerous) profession. The party themselves for example have previously delved into these ruins and uncovered large amounts of treasure and magical items. The NPC had made the deal with the criminals that if they funded his expedition, they would be given a large percentage of his findings as well as first knowledge of unexplored areas. The gold that was given to him had been mainly used on magical items that would make this expedition safe for someone who isn't a hardened fighter. As many of these unexplored places house dangers that could very easily kill the average person.
- The reason the NPC disappeared was because, on his long travel, he eventually found a hidden city of this lost civilization that wasn't abandoned. He found out that this civilization has continued to exist far away from the eyes of the gods who fought a war with this magical race of people and nearly destroyed them. This city allows travellers to stay in their city but they aren't allowed to leave. If they do want to leave, the rules of this city (which are sphinxes) will wipe a person's memory before teleporting them away from the city. That last thing is what happened to the other apprentice when they wanted to leave the city. They wanted to leave the city because the NPC had snuck out of the city after recieving visions of another ruin near the hidden city. He ended up being captured and petrified by the mummy lord (the one I mentioned at the start of this post). The apprentice wanted to find help and but the sphinxes saw the NPC's disappearance as a lost cause and didn't want to risk revealing their city. The map the other apprentice had indicated the location that she was teleported to by the sphinxes, which was somwhere partway through the expedition.
- The criminals had been searching for the barbarians as they know he was the one who stole the map that could eventually lead them to the NPC. The party avoided them for a long time but eventually was gifted a stronghold which gave the criminals a place to reliable find the barbarian. They approached him with the following offer: - Either find the NPC and return him to the criminals so he could pay off their debt. - Follow up on the deal that the NPC had made and share knowledge about the ruins and treasures that could be found there with the criminals so they can profit off of it that way. - Or bring back proof of the NPC's demise. This was because the criminals thought that the barbarian was in cahoots with the npc and stole the map to keep the npc's location hidden.
The party eventually managed to also find the hidden city, defeat the mummy lord and free the NPC. The party was given the privilege of leaving the city with their memories complete as a reward for aiding the party in defeating the mummy lord that was aiming to find the city and add its population to his growing army. The sphinxes also recognized that their secluded existence was nearly their doom and they would begin to consider to perhaps eventually make contact with the civilized world. Until they chose to do that however, the sphinxes requested their existence to be kept a secret.
- The party explained the situation to the NPC but as he didn't want to reveal the city's existence to the world yet he asked the party to think of some way to resolve this situation without either killing him or revealing the city to these criminals. The party, eventually, managed to convince the NPC to leave with them to go back towards the slum city. The NPC only came along when the party told him that they would keep him safe. The party travelled back to the civilized world through a teleportation circle and had to deal with the Nalfeshnee and its orcs almost immedietally after returning. This gave the players almost 2 months of real-world time to think of something to do with the NPC.
- Before leaving the elves and begin travel to the slum city, the NPC pleaded the party to make an actual plan. But because the party vastly overpowered him he could hardly force them from travelling there without any form of plan. The party was not willing to take much time to sit and plan as they wanted to go and save their family. Reluctantly, the npc came along with the party knowing that their best plan was:
'We set up a meeting and you (the npc) will say that you are sorry and that will be it.'
This is because the party didn't intend on handing over the npc as they did promise to keep him save.
- The party strolled into the city and went around with the npc in tow going past some contacts that the barbarian had in the slum city to try and setup some kind of meeting with the criminals. They didn't make any attempt at hiding their arrival or the fact that they had found the npc alive and well even though, at their 12th level, there were many ways for them to try and do so.
- When the party was given a time and place for the meeting, they chose to try and come up with tome type of plan. They would have the NPC invisible but nearby in case it was needed. But they decided that one of the smaller party members, an artificer who could cast disguise self, should be disguised as the npc so they could give the pc to the criminals and use that as a way to find out the location of their hideout.
- During the meeting the party met with a group of corrupt city guards who brought a magical mirror that basically allowed the party to have a magical zoom call with the criminals. The disguised pc was given to the criminals when it was proven that the family members that were in the criminals' custody were in good health and treated fairly. The 'zoom call' was ended and the pc began traveling with the corrupt guards. The party decided last second that they didn't dare the disguise self spell to be revealed so they chose to forcefully grab the invisible npc, make him reveal himself and handed him over to the guards after revealing the deception ahead of time. The guards were intimidated into not revealing that the party tried to trick them, which worked successfully, and the guards went on their way with the actual NPC.
- The party then tracked them to the guard outpost where they staked it out for a few hours until a duo of criminals showed up to take the npc to their hideout. And from there it goes like I said in my original post. The party tried to follow them, was found out and them followed them at a longer distance through the use of a locate person spell. Eventually find out that the npc was taken into an underground hideout with the party having a pretty good idea of where the entrance may be. But then decided not to act any further. And eventually the family members were, as per the agreement made during the zoom call, released. The family has no knowledge of the specifics of the hideout's location aside from knowing it was underground because they had to go up stairs when they were released. When they were released (and the party was told this) they were blindfolded while being transported from the hideout to their release point.
I hope this long summary gives a clearer picture of the situation. This may impact how some of you think about the situation, maybe not. If any of you had the time to read this, i'd love to hear what you think.
The NPC should have had his memory erased then he could go to the criminals and honestly say he doesn't have any memory of where he has been. He could say he must have encountered something in his explorations that wiped his memories. His last recollection before the PCs found him was walking in the wilderness before being petrified by the Mummy Lord's armies. The PCs are likely high enough level to be able to pull off a deception and not tell the criminals about the city.
The criminals would know that exploration comes with risks. If the NPC still has the magic items they bought to enable the explorations they could turn them over to the criminals.
However, unfortunately, that entire plot line doesn't work because the PCs didn't think far enough ahead. By this time, the NPC has probably talked all about the vast treasures of the Sphinx city and where it is, since his life appears to be on the line. As a result, the PCs end up having broken the promise to protect the NPC and broken the promise to keep the city secret by allowing the NPC to talk freely. (The NPC doesn't seem to be the type to keep a secret really). So the party has messed up the situation either way.
The party could go scorched earth on the criminal organization if they are really that powerful but your world should have other powerful people and creatures in it and whoever leads the criminal organization who is making profits from a whole city of potentially indentured or slave labour would likely be pretty powerful. It's up to you whether killing all the local criminals would suppress the knowledge revealed by the NPC or not - but knowledge of a rich magical city is likely of great interest to your BBEG (or council of BBEGs) so the criminal organization might sell it and the local leader of the criminal organization would likely pass it along to higher ups in the organization as quickly as possible. Anyway, what happens from here is up to you, the DM, to decide the events happening outside of the players vision or influence.
Thank you for reading the entire thing and commenting your thoughts.
I agree that allowing the sphinxes to wipe the NPC's memories would've been a good idea. But like you said, it is too far beyond that point now.
I hope that the additional context kinda showed why I think there should be some kind of consequence for the party's actions, or rather inactions. I feel like I had given them enough time and opportunity to devise a real plan. Especially considering I used the NPC in question to tell the party they should come up with some kind of plan beforehand.
I had already decided that the friendly relationship the party had with this NPC is completely shot after this 'betrayal' from their perspective. I also tried thinking of what the criminals could do potentially with the information that they would've (after probably only the threat of harm) acquired from the NPC. This is where I hit a block as im not sure what they could do that would be meaningful to the party.
Additionally, I had made my original post to see if there is anything that I should've done differently to better inform or prepare my party for the conflict with the criminals that they knew they were heading into from the start of the quest even before leaving on their journey initially. Is there anything I could have done beyond what I already did?
I feel like I had given them enough time and opportunity to devise a real plan. Especially considering I used the NPC in question to tell the party they should come up with some kind of plan beforehand.
It sounds like they did make a plan once they had the meeting info. It's hard to just "make a plan" without a good amount of context to narrow down your options. If you want PCs to make a plan and they don't, might be because they're reckless but it might also be because they simply lack enough information to do so. You would be a better judge of which case this is than any of us.
As for the NPC's pleading, of course a weaker, wanted man would beg for his strong allies to make a plan to prevent his capture. Sometimes DM hints can just come across as roleplaying.
I dunno, certainly there will be bad consequences from this. It might be helpful for you to just stop thinking like "Do I punish them as the DM?" and just think "What happens now based on the characters involved?" As long as whatever happens next feels natural and organic based on the party's understanding of the world, worrying too much about whether it feels fair or too nice or harsh on a metagame level is ultimately just stressing you out.
Thank you for reading the entire thing and commenting your thoughts.
I agree that allowing the sphinxes to wipe the NPC's memories would've been a good idea. But like you said, it is too far beyond that point now.
I hope that the additional context kinda showed why I think there should be some kind of consequence for the party's actions, or rather inactions. I feel like I had given them enough time and opportunity to devise a real plan. Especially considering I used the NPC in question to tell the party they should come up with some kind of plan beforehand.
I had already decided that the friendly relationship the party had with this NPC is completely shot after this 'betrayal' from their perspective. I also tried thinking of what the criminals could do potentially with the information that they would've (after probably only the threat of harm) acquired from the NPC. This is where I hit a block as im not sure what they could do that would be meaningful to the party.
Additionally, I had made my original post to see if there is anything that I should've done differently to better inform or prepare my party for the conflict with the criminals that they knew they were heading into from the start of the quest even before leaving on their journey initially. Is there anything I could have done beyond what I already did?
I don't think you need to impose any sort of special consequences for their decisions. Let the plot develop with the consequences that logically fall out from the interactions.
1) The NPC no longer trusts the party. They rescued him, told him they would keep him safe to keep him quiet as they brought him back, and then sold him up the river. The players actual thoughts, plans and intentions are irrelevant, from the NPC perspective, the party may well have lied to them from the beginning and always intended to hand him over to the criminals. Depending on what the criminals want the NPC may try to get revenge on the party. At the very least, the NPC/criminals may spread the word that the party can't be trusted and don't keep their word.
2) The NPC likely tells the criminals all about the Sphinxes, their magical city, the likely treasures to be found there. The NPC has no reason to keep quiet, it was the party that promised to keep quiet and they shafted him. The NPC will give the information to the criminals to help settle his debt and explain the Sphinxes held him prisoner which was why he was unable to return. What do the criminals want? Wealth, money, power, magic items ... they can set up an expedition to invade the Sphinx city since presumably they have some allies that are pretty powerful or perhaps other adventurers that are more willing to attack the Sphinxes and loot their city. Or they could blackmail the Sphixes to keep their secret since they seem to like extortion.
3) The party has utterly failed to protect the secret of the Sphinxes. The Sphinxes no longer trust them, likely won't deal with them and may seek to take actions that would negatively affect the party, especially when the criminals either show up to sack the Sphinx city or blackmail them by threatening to reveal the location of the city to every powerful faction that might want to invade them for the loot.
None of this is a "special" consequence or punishment. The party makes decisions and actions and the world responds. Lack of planning is irrelevant. Their plan wasn't terrible though they could have thought about it more.
In particular, the party doesn't seem to understand the character abilities very well. Locate Creature appears to be a spell they had access to ... the relatives of the PC are likely well known and the caster may have actually met them at some point. Locate Creature works within 1000' and lasts an hour. The party would have been easily capable of triangulating the location of the captive relatives (unless they happened to be on the other side of 10' wide flowing river oddly enough). However, the party also likely has access to Divination spells, the ability to Scry, maybe even Find the Path which is available at 11th level. Divine where the prisoners are, scry the location, use find the path to find the most direct route. I don't know what classes the characters are but you did mention level 11 or 12 and there is a lot that such characters are capable of achieving.
Anyway, for some reason, the players appeared to want to solve the problem using tier 1 tools (disguise self, some skills) rather than the tier 3 ones available to their characters - and in the longer term that knowledge gap may be the bigger issue. As DM, it is ok to remind the players from time to time of things that their characters would know. It doesn't have to be obvious but if the players don't seem to understand the spells they have access to then you, as DM, can feel free to point out that there may be options there that the character would want to consider before they finalize their plans. There is no reason for the characters to use a bad or inferior plan just because the players have no idea of the character capabilities - so don't do it all the time but it is ok to nudge the players to read their character sheets and consider options when the players are trying to put together a plan.
It sounds like this played out as expected - they were asked to do a thing, they did a thing, there were no twists - the family was released.
For consequences, I would say:
1: They gain a reputation in the crime family as people who can get things done. They get offered contracts from the criminals to do things for them, for a fair price.
2: They gain a reputation as members of the criminal organisation. People start to fear them, they hear people mutter about people selling their morals for coin. If there are lawful-good religous types, their gods may be a little wrathful.
3: They find out that the NPC friend died, either to "pay" or in trying to recover a trasure from a dungeon to pay them off. Perhaps even have them sent to get it, with a vague "one of our guys went to try and get it, but he hasn't come back". Do the full indiana jones "assistant impaled on a spike" reveal.
4: They are approached by another organisation to ask them to become moles in the criminal one, revealing where their boss is, in exchange for safety and relocation.
Dear Dungeon Masters,
I desperately need your help. Tonight, I ran a session where the party made a bad deal. My instincts tell me there should be consequences but I don't know how to do that without making it feel like im punishing my players.
For some context:
The parties involved:
The party, for a while now, has been dealing with a criminal organization that is hounding them because a member of the party is a known affiliate and friend of an NPC that has a massive debt to this organization. Speaking of multiple tens of thousands of gold.
The NPC with the debt had disappeared. So the criminals went to the party and told them to find the NPC and bring him to them otherwise family of the party would be harmed. These family members had already been picked up by the organization. The party went on a long quest, eventually finding the NPC and bringing them back.
This NPC didn't want to come with the party at first because he feared of what the criminal organization would do to him. The party convinced him to come with them, telling him that they would protect him. Using their building reputation as proof that they could.
Reluctantly, this npc came with them and eventually a meeting was setup where the prisoner would be exchanged.
The deal:
At this meeting, the party learned that not only did family of the affiliated party member get captured. Also a family member that had been recruited by the party to aid them while they were away on their quest. The criminals had treated the family members fairly and explained that if the NPC was given to them, they would let the party's family go free.
At first the party tried to give another party member disguised with the 'disguise self' spell to the criminals. But eventually the party chose to reveal this trick because they feared that if the spell ran out before the family members were released, the family would be killed. So they ended up giving the NPC to the criminals.
They tried following the criminals to their hideout but got discovered and chose to stop following close behind. Eventually, through the use of a Locate Creature spell, they ended up finding out that their base was underground and guessed that there would be a hidden entrance in a nearby shady tavern that is known (in the backstory of the affiliate party member) to be connected to the criminal organization.
Fearing that the family members would be killed if they stormed the hideout, the party decided to give up the chase and return to the place they were staying at in the hope that eventually their family would be set free. And a few hours (in game) later they found out that because the party held up their end of the deal, the criminals did as well and set the family free.
The aftermath:
Now the party has chosen to bring the family members to safety in a town a few days away from the city where the criminals are situated in. That is where the session ended. With their family safe, but the NPC friend of one of the party members with a significant debt to the criminals in their custody and the party is leaving the city for a few days.
I don't really know how to handle this. I feel like I may have driven them too far into a corner and not given them enough options as they really seemed to fear that any action they would take against the criminals would result in the death of those family members. On the other end, I feel like their should be some consequences because of their inaction but I fear that that would feel like punishing them for not doing something that may have looked, from their perspective, as a really bad idea.
The Question:
What should I do? The NPC is with the criminals now, and the criminals do know that the party attempted to follow them. Should there be consequences?
Edit to give more context:
First of all, thank all of you for your replies and your perspectives.
I already had the idea that I may not have the ideal perspective to handle this situation properly and many of your replies have shown me that my initial thoughts on the matter may be more destructive to my game than I expected.
I also recognize that there was some context lacking. Because of this I wanna add to my original post here:
- My party is level 12 and has quite recently defeated both a mummy lord that was ruling over a fortress where they were building an undead army and a Nalfeshnee that was leading an orcish on a military campaign against the last elves on the continent. Meaning that they have already accomplished great feats and are (rightly so) very confident in their abilities. This criminal enterprize was never supposed to come up this late in the campaign but it happend to go this way because the party avoided them for a long time. Knowing this, I had planned for any combat encounter to be nearly trivial if they decided to go that way.
- The relation of the NPC to the party. The NPC is a gnomish archeologist/cartographer/historian/explorer. The barbarian of the party in their backstory was this person's apprentice. But when the NPC went missing after leaving on an expedition, the barbarian started doing cage fights for the criminals.
- Before the start of the campaign, the NPC was gone for 5 years without a trace until one day a fellow apprentice returned to the city with a map that could jumpstart a search for the npc. This other apprentice also got involved with the criminals because they were convinced that the other apprentice knew where the NPC was. The barbarian stole this map before fleeing the city and eventually joining up with the party. The barbarian had racked up a small 300 GP drinking debt that was supposed to be the reason the party would deal with the criminals early in the campaign. Where the party would be able to either fight them and it be a bit of a challenge or pay off the debt to get them off of their backs.
- Why the criminals gave this NPC such a large sum of money: The criminals mainly deal in human trafficking. The dwarven kingdom that is built underground is suffering from a severe overpopulation problem. This caused many of the poorer folk to spill out on the surface near the entrance to the underground kingdom where a large slum city has been formed over the past few centuries. This part of the kingdom is neglected by those who live underground which allowed for the criminal organization to bring their own law and order to this slum city.
The NPC has previously aided the criminals in setting up a travel route for the criminals to aid them in transporting people across a wild part of the continent to a friendly gnomish city where often families would want to travel to start a new life. The criminals would then only send the father of a family for example and tell him that he has to earn and pay X amount of money to the criminals for them to also transport the rest of their family. This made it so that the NPC was already affiliated with the criminals due to a previous deal.
- The new deal the NPC had made was the following. This campaign takes place on a continent that is largely unexplored for various reasons but there are many traces of a vast rich magical empire hidden all over the unexplored areas. The NPC had always been interested as an archeologist and historian in this lost civilization. He wanted to explore and document his findings.
It is well known that being an adventurer and delving in old ruins and such can be a lucrative (but dangerous) profession. The party themselves for example have previously delved into these ruins and uncovered large amounts of treasure and magical items.
The NPC had made the deal with the criminals that if they funded his expedition, they would be given a large percentage of his findings as well as first knowledge of unexplored areas. The gold that was given to him had been mainly used on magical items that would make this expedition safe for someone who isn't a hardened fighter. As many of these unexplored places house dangers that could very easily kill the average person.
- The reason the NPC disappeared was because, on his long travel, he eventually found a hidden city of this lost civilization that wasn't abandoned. He found out that this civilization has continued to exist far away from the eyes of the gods who fought a war with this magical race of people and nearly destroyed them. This city allows travellers to stay in their city but they aren't allowed to leave. If they do want to leave, the rules of this city (which are sphinxes) will wipe a person's memory before teleporting them away from the city.
That last thing is what happened to the other apprentice when they wanted to leave the city. They wanted to leave the city because the NPC had snuck out of the city after recieving visions of another ruin near the hidden city. He ended up being captured and petrified by the mummy lord (the one I mentioned at the start of this post). The apprentice wanted to find help and but the sphinxes saw the NPC's disappearance as a lost cause and didn't want to risk revealing their city.
The map the other apprentice had indicated the location that she was teleported to by the sphinxes, which was somwhere partway through the expedition.
- The criminals had been searching for the barbarians as they know he was the one who stole the map that could eventually lead them to the NPC. The party avoided them for a long time but eventually was gifted a stronghold which gave the criminals a place to reliable find the barbarian. They approached him with the following offer:
- Either find the NPC and return him to the criminals so he could pay off their debt.
- Follow up on the deal that the NPC had made and share knowledge about the ruins and treasures that could be found there with the criminals so they can profit off of it that way.
- Or bring back proof of the NPC's demise. This was because the criminals thought that the barbarian was in cahoots with the npc and stole the map to keep the npc's location hidden.
The party eventually managed to also find the hidden city, defeat the mummy lord and free the NPC. The party was given the privilege of leaving the city with their memories complete as a reward for aiding the party in defeating the mummy lord that was aiming to find the city and add its population to his growing army. The sphinxes also recognized that their secluded existence was nearly their doom and they would begin to consider to perhaps eventually make contact with the civilized world. Until they chose to do that however, the sphinxes requested their existence to be kept a secret.
- The party explained the situation to the NPC but as he didn't want to reveal the city's existence to the world yet he asked the party to think of some way to resolve this situation without either killing him or revealing the city to these criminals. The party, eventually, managed to convince the NPC to leave with them to go back towards the slum city. The NPC only came along when the party told him that they would keep him safe.
The party travelled back to the civilized world through a teleportation circle and had to deal with the Nalfeshnee and its orcs almost immedietally after returning. This gave the players almost 2 months of real-world time to think of something to do with the NPC.
- Before leaving the elves and begin travel to the slum city, the NPC pleaded the party to make an actual plan. But because the party vastly overpowered him he could hardly force them from travelling there without any form of plan. The party was not willing to take much time to sit and plan as they wanted to go and save their family. Reluctantly, the npc came along with the party knowing that their best plan was:
'We set up a meeting and you (the npc) will say that you are sorry and that will be it.'
This is because the party didn't intend on handing over the npc as they did promise to keep him save.
- The party strolled into the city and went around with the npc in tow going past some contacts that the barbarian had in the slum city to try and setup some kind of meeting with the criminals. They didn't make any attempt at hiding their arrival or the fact that they had found the npc alive and well even though, at their 12th level, there were many ways for them to try and do so.
- When the party was given a time and place for the meeting, they chose to try and come up with tome type of plan. They would have the NPC invisible but nearby in case it was needed. But they decided that one of the smaller party members, an artificer who could cast disguise self, should be disguised as the npc so they could give the pc to the criminals and use that as a way to find out the location of their hideout.
- During the meeting the party met with a group of corrupt city guards who brought a magical mirror that basically allowed the party to have a magical zoom call with the criminals.
The disguised pc was given to the criminals when it was proven that the family members that were in the criminals' custody were in good health and treated fairly.
The 'zoom call' was ended and the pc began traveling with the corrupt guards. The party decided last second that they didn't dare the disguise self spell to be revealed so they chose to forcefully grab the invisible npc, make him reveal himself and handed him over to the guards after revealing the deception ahead of time.
The guards were intimidated into not revealing that the party tried to trick them, which worked successfully, and the guards went on their way with the actual NPC.
- The party then tracked them to the guard outpost where they staked it out for a few hours until a duo of criminals showed up to take the npc to their hideout. And from there it goes like I said in my original post. The party tried to follow them, was found out and them followed them at a longer distance through the use of a locate person spell. Eventually find out that the npc was taken into an underground hideout with the party having a pretty good idea of where the entrance may be. But then decided not to act any further. And eventually the family members were, as per the agreement made during the zoom call, released. The family has no knowledge of the specifics of the hideout's location aside from knowing it was underground because they had to go up stairs when they were released. When they were released (and the party was told this) they were blindfolded while being transported from the hideout to their release point.
I hope this long summary gives a clearer picture of the situation. This may impact how some of you think about the situation, maybe not. If any of you had the time to read this, i'd love to hear what you think.
Honestly? I don’t necessarily see that the PC’s had any real choices here beyond the ones that were available. They tried, it seems, as best they could to protect their friend while keeping in mind that the lives of their family almost certainly came first. Their plans didn’t work out and they chose not to go full frontal assault on the criminal organization (which was probably very smart). They did what they could and it doesn’t sound like inaction occurred. I’d say that even though they tried to follow the criminals, the bad guys would let them go (business concluded). As far as the NPC friend goes? That could be inspiration for the party in future quests. Because the NPC *could* hope to pay the criminals back with favors (if they had particular skills or connections) or by working off their debt. But considering the NPC ran like they did, it’s extremely likely they don’t have the ability to do any of those things. I’d suggest having the criminals kill the NPC (in as tortuous a way as your campaign allows (burning at the stake?)) and leave the body in a public space that the PC’s can find, as a warning to those that do business with them.
Including local families in a campaign is tough. If I were the PC’s and this happened? I’d do as they have done (move the families as far away as they can) and then start adventuring in a location different from either the new town or the old one, and only come back to deal with that gang when they were more powerful. I don’t feel they should be rewarded (beyond seeing their families safe) or punished (especially that last one). This serves well as a defining moment in their adventuring careers that will drive them going forward. Perhaps to inspire them you might have a family friend offer them a suggestion of work to be found in whatever region you want to further explore in your world.
If you're looking for a "happy end" solution and your party is the kind of party: Give them the chance to make a extremly valuable hostage themselves, then exchange prisoners. Could be the cousin of one of their leaders, could be the accountant that keeps track of profit from operations (they could even let him go and just keep the books as evidence) or the only alchemist that knows the recipe to one of their drugs... all depends on what they are dabbling in, but you get the idea.
Edit: the criminals could also send npc friend to the lead mines, or sell him to a Hag...
That seems like a very bad idea for the PC’s to try, unless their families are in a town that’s either really far away or in a town the criminals can’t touch (tough ruler, rival gang, whatever). Their families were kidnapped once, if they can possibly be reached again the criminals would have a really strong reason to hurt them as retaliation. Unless the PC’s really hated their family, that’s just not something that can be excused.
From what i read the family was already taken out of town, to somwhere days away. IF PCs pull through with such an action, they might have to still FO a little further away to some backwater village but at least friend npc would be free and they'd be together.
Fair enough. Like I said, If they’re 100% certain the family is safe, I can see justifying further messing with the gang. To me though, this seems like a wasted opportunity. I’d personally go with the friend dying and the PC’s having to run away for a while before coming back to avenge them.
I'm not real clear on what the screw up is here. If the org was going to kill the NPC, it seems like they've had plenty of chances to do that by now. You gave the party multiple people to protect and they're doing the best they can.
What are the criminals intentions with regards to the captured NPC? Were those intentions communicated to the party to help them weigh their decision? Could they have gotten a different picture of the situation than you had in your head? Presumably since the criminals went through all this trouble to get him, they have some plan for him. It seems like you could use this in a future plot by the criminal org without just killing the NPC because you expected the party to break him out and they didn't.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If the situation is merely that the npc had allot of debt then I imagine the mob has some kind of money making scheme to make back that debt.
All of those have places the party could intervene. They'd have to be shipped out as a slave, they're friends could have left them clues for the treasure or they may be asked to follow up investigating some crime the npc is involved with. barring that, if they have find creature they definitely have the ability to track the npc if they want and if they choose not to it's their choice. The NPC ends up imprisoned somewhere for a crime/ as a slave or is killed after leading the criminals to some treasure etc...
Generally, when a criminal organization allows someone to go into debt like that it is because either the person in question can pay it back or the organization knows that said person has some form of collateral that they can collect on in one form or another. It is simply bad business to simply kill or enslave someone as it means either no or very little return on investment. This NPC is either very rich or knows something valuable that this criminal organization wants. Being as the NPC is in debt enough to run that removes being rich from the equation. The organization allowed the debt knowing full well it couldn't be paid back. This whole adventure arc here has just opened up what I would consider some very interesting plot hooks!
Debt slavery is unfortunately a fairly common form of slavery. Criminal organizations are often dishonest with the debt by doing things like charging exorbitant interest or costs. Its not a financial risk to them as they made an unfair contract that costs them very little.
It can work pretty well as a plot point. An evil organization can be getting people hooked on drugs, gambling or doing people smuggling to force people in to debt and make them work for free.
The title of this thread is "My players made a bad deal. Should there be consequences".
And yet, when I read the description, the players did NOT make a bad deal .. they made the ONLY deal offered to them. Recover NPC in exchange for not killing family members.
If the DM wanted the players to do anything except track down the NPC and deliver them to the criminals in exchange for the release of the family members then it was up to the DM to provide those options. Instead, the DM created a classic hostage situation, gave the players orders as to what they had to do, and then the DM seems surprised that they did it, somehow thinking it was a bad deal. It was the only deal on the table, the only deal discussed and the only option possible in the circumstances assuming the party wasn't strong enough to defeat the entire criminal organization in a fight while also preventing the criminals from just deciding to kill the family members.
So, my question is really - what should there be consequences FOR? The story can proceed in several logical ways with lots of plot points but "consequences" usually refers to something bad happening to the characters as a result of their chosen actions. In this case, the DM gave them no other reasonable choices so I am not sure what "consequences" would mean in this context.
You are indeed 100% correct. In clarification to my point, this particular NPC fellow, is a friend/affiliate to the PCs. He is in debt to the tune of 10's of thousands of gold pieces. That is a massive investment that a criminal organization has placed in this fellow who then did a runner. Small city states would be wary of expending vast amounts of cash like that. That leads me to think the NPC isn't in for run of the mill gambling debt to a loan shark but that something much bigger is going on here. The NPC also had the ability and wherewithal to stay hidden and away from said organization who were then forced to coerce the Player party to track him down for them. It could definitely be an interesting plot brewing. Why did the organization lend so much cash to one guy? What do they know that the party doesn't? What does our debt ridden NPC know? The plot hook thickens!
First of all, thank all of you for your replies and your perspectives.
I already had the idea that I may not have the ideal perspective to handle this situation properly and many of your replies have shown me that my initial thoughts on the matter may be more destructive to my game than I expected.
I also recognize that there was some context lacking. Because of this I wanna add to my original post here:
- My party is level 12 and has quite recently defeated both a mummy lord that was ruling over a fortress where they were building an undead army and a Nalfeshnee that was leading an orcish on a military campaign against the last elves on the continent. Meaning that they have already accomplished great feats and are (rightly so) very confident in their abilities. This criminal enterprize was never supposed to come up this late in the campaign but it happend to go this way because the party avoided them for a long time. Knowing this, I had planned for any combat encounter to be nearly trivial if they decided to go that way.
- The relation of the NPC to the party. The NPC is a gnomish archeologist/cartographer/historian/explorer. The barbarian of the party in their backstory was this person's apprentice. But when the NPC went missing after leaving on an expedition, the barbarian started doing cage fights for the criminals.
- Before the start of the campaign, the NPC was gone for 5 years without a trace until one day a fellow apprentice returned to the city with a map that could jumpstart a search for the npc. This other apprentice also got involved with the criminals because they were convinced that the other apprentice knew where the NPC was. The barbarian stole this map before fleeing the city and eventually joining up with the party. The barbarian had racked up a small 300 GP drinking debt that was supposed to be the reason the party would deal with the criminals early in the campaign. Where the party would be able to either fight them and it be a bit of a challenge or pay off the debt to get them off of their backs.
- Why the criminals gave this NPC such a large sum of money: The criminals mainly deal in human trafficking. The dwarven kingdom that is built underground is suffering from a severe overpopulation problem. This caused many of the poorer folk to spill out on the surface near the entrance to the underground kingdom where a large slum city has been formed over the past few centuries. This part of the kingdom is neglected by those who live underground which allowed for the criminal organization to bring their own law and order to this slum city.
The NPC has previously aided the criminals in setting up a travel route for the criminals to aid them in transporting people across a wild part of the continent to a friendly gnomish city where often families would want to travel to start a new life. The criminals would then only send the father of a family for example and tell him that he has to earn and pay X amount of money to the criminals for them to also transport the rest of their family. This made it so that the NPC was already affiliated with the criminals due to a previous deal.
- The new deal the NPC had made was the following. This campaign takes place on a continent that is largely unexplored for various reasons but there are many traces of a vast rich magical empire hidden all over the unexplored areas. The NPC had always been interested as an archeologist and historian in this lost civilization. He wanted to explore and document his findings.
It is well known that being an adventurer and delving in old ruins and such can be a lucrative (but dangerous) profession. The party themselves for example have previously delved into these ruins and uncovered large amounts of treasure and magical items.
The NPC had made the deal with the criminals that if they funded his expedition, they would be given a large percentage of his findings as well as first knowledge of unexplored areas. The gold that was given to him had been mainly used on magical items that would make this expedition safe for someone who isn't a hardened fighter. As many of these unexplored places house dangers that could very easily kill the average person.
- The reason the NPC disappeared was because, on his long travel, he eventually found a hidden city of this lost civilization that wasn't abandoned. He found out that this civilization has continued to exist far away from the eyes of the gods who fought a war with this magical race of people and nearly destroyed them. This city allows travellers to stay in their city but they aren't allowed to leave. If they do want to leave, the rules of this city (which are sphinxes) will wipe a person's memory before teleporting them away from the city.
That last thing is what happened to the other apprentice when they wanted to leave the city. They wanted to leave the city because the NPC had snuck out of the city after recieving visions of another ruin near the hidden city. He ended up being captured and petrified by the mummy lord (the one I mentioned at the start of this post). The apprentice wanted to find help and but the sphinxes saw the NPC's disappearance as a lost cause and didn't want to risk revealing their city.
The map the other apprentice had indicated the location that she was teleported to by the sphinxes, which was somwhere partway through the expedition.
- The criminals had been searching for the barbarians as they know he was the one who stole the map that could eventually lead them to the NPC. The party avoided them for a long time but eventually was gifted a stronghold which gave the criminals a place to reliable find the barbarian. They approached him with the following offer:
- Either find the NPC and return him to the criminals so he could pay off their debt.
- Follow up on the deal that the NPC had made and share knowledge about the ruins and treasures that could be found there with the criminals so they can profit off of it that way.
- Or bring back proof of the NPC's demise. This was because the criminals thought that the barbarian was in cahoots with the npc and stole the map to keep the npc's location hidden.
The party eventually managed to also find the hidden city, defeat the mummy lord and free the NPC. The party was given the privilege of leaving the city with their memories complete as a reward for aiding the party in defeating the mummy lord that was aiming to find the city and add its population to his growing army. The sphinxes also recognized that their secluded existence was nearly their doom and they would begin to consider to perhaps eventually make contact with the civilized world. Until they chose to do that however, the sphinxes requested their existence to be kept a secret.
- The party explained the situation to the NPC but as he didn't want to reveal the city's existence to the world yet he asked the party to think of some way to resolve this situation without either killing him or revealing the city to these criminals. The party, eventually, managed to convince the NPC to leave with them to go back towards the slum city. The NPC only came along when the party told him that they would keep him safe.
The party travelled back to the civilized world through a teleportation circle and had to deal with the Nalfeshnee and its orcs almost immedietally after returning. This gave the players almost 2 months of real-world time to think of something to do with the NPC.
- Before leaving the elves and begin travel to the slum city, the NPC pleaded the party to make an actual plan. But because the party vastly overpowered him he could hardly force them from travelling there without any form of plan. The party was not willing to take much time to sit and plan as they wanted to go and save their family. Reluctantly, the npc came along with the party knowing that their best plan was:
'We set up a meeting and you (the npc) will say that you are sorry and that will be it.'
This is because the party didn't intend on handing over the npc as they did promise to keep him save.
- The party strolled into the city and went around with the npc in tow going past some contacts that the barbarian had in the slum city to try and setup some kind of meeting with the criminals. They didn't make any attempt at hiding their arrival or the fact that they had found the npc alive and well even though, at their 12th level, there were many ways for them to try and do so.
- When the party was given a time and place for the meeting, they chose to try and come up with tome type of plan. They would have the NPC invisible but nearby in case it was needed. But they decided that one of the smaller party members, an artificer who could cast disguise self, should be disguised as the npc so they could give the pc to the criminals and use that as a way to find out the location of their hideout.
- During the meeting the party met with a group of corrupt city guards who brought a magical mirror that basically allowed the party to have a magical zoom call with the criminals.
The disguised pc was given to the criminals when it was proven that the family members that were in the criminals' custody were in good health and treated fairly.
The 'zoom call' was ended and the pc began traveling with the corrupt guards. The party decided last second that they didn't dare the disguise self spell to be revealed so they chose to forcefully grab the invisible npc, make him reveal himself and handed him over to the guards after revealing the deception ahead of time.
The guards were intimidated into not revealing that the party tried to trick them, which worked successfully, and the guards went on their way with the actual NPC.
- The party then tracked them to the guard outpost where they staked it out for a few hours until a duo of criminals showed up to take the npc to their hideout. And from there it goes like I said in my original post. The party tried to follow them, was found out and them followed them at a longer distance through the use of a locate person spell. Eventually find out that the npc was taken into an underground hideout with the party having a pretty good idea of where the entrance may be. But then decided not to act any further. And eventually the family members were, as per the agreement made during the zoom call, released. The family has no knowledge of the specifics of the hideout's location aside from knowing it was underground because they had to go up stairs when they were released. When they were released (and the party was told this) they were blindfolded while being transported from the hideout to their release point.
I hope this long summary gives a clearer picture of the situation. This may impact how some of you think about the situation, maybe not. If any of you had the time to read this, i'd love to hear what you think.
The NPC should have had his memory erased then he could go to the criminals and honestly say he doesn't have any memory of where he has been. He could say he must have encountered something in his explorations that wiped his memories. His last recollection before the PCs found him was walking in the wilderness before being petrified by the Mummy Lord's armies. The PCs are likely high enough level to be able to pull off a deception and not tell the criminals about the city.
The criminals would know that exploration comes with risks. If the NPC still has the magic items they bought to enable the explorations they could turn them over to the criminals.
However, unfortunately, that entire plot line doesn't work because the PCs didn't think far enough ahead. By this time, the NPC has probably talked all about the vast treasures of the Sphinx city and where it is, since his life appears to be on the line. As a result, the PCs end up having broken the promise to protect the NPC and broken the promise to keep the city secret by allowing the NPC to talk freely. (The NPC doesn't seem to be the type to keep a secret really). So the party has messed up the situation either way.
The party could go scorched earth on the criminal organization if they are really that powerful but your world should have other powerful people and creatures in it and whoever leads the criminal organization who is making profits from a whole city of potentially indentured or slave labour would likely be pretty powerful. It's up to you whether killing all the local criminals would suppress the knowledge revealed by the NPC or not - but knowledge of a rich magical city is likely of great interest to your BBEG (or council of BBEGs) so the criminal organization might sell it and the local leader of the criminal organization would likely pass it along to higher ups in the organization as quickly as possible. Anyway, what happens from here is up to you, the DM, to decide the events happening outside of the players vision or influence.
Thank you for reading the entire thing and commenting your thoughts.
I agree that allowing the sphinxes to wipe the NPC's memories would've been a good idea. But like you said, it is too far beyond that point now.
I hope that the additional context kinda showed why I think there should be some kind of consequence for the party's actions, or rather inactions. I feel like I had given them enough time and opportunity to devise a real plan. Especially considering I used the NPC in question to tell the party they should come up with some kind of plan beforehand.
I had already decided that the friendly relationship the party had with this NPC is completely shot after this 'betrayal' from their perspective. I also tried thinking of what the criminals could do potentially with the information that they would've (after probably only the threat of harm) acquired from the NPC. This is where I hit a block as im not sure what they could do that would be meaningful to the party.
Additionally, I had made my original post to see if there is anything that I should've done differently to better inform or prepare my party for the conflict with the criminals that they knew they were heading into from the start of the quest even before leaving on their journey initially. Is there anything I could have done beyond what I already did?
It sounds like they did make a plan once they had the meeting info. It's hard to just "make a plan" without a good amount of context to narrow down your options. If you want PCs to make a plan and they don't, might be because they're reckless but it might also be because they simply lack enough information to do so. You would be a better judge of which case this is than any of us.
As for the NPC's pleading, of course a weaker, wanted man would beg for his strong allies to make a plan to prevent his capture. Sometimes DM hints can just come across as roleplaying.
I dunno, certainly there will be bad consequences from this. It might be helpful for you to just stop thinking like "Do I punish them as the DM?" and just think "What happens now based on the characters involved?" As long as whatever happens next feels natural and organic based on the party's understanding of the world, worrying too much about whether it feels fair or too nice or harsh on a metagame level is ultimately just stressing you out.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I don't think you need to impose any sort of special consequences for their decisions. Let the plot develop with the consequences that logically fall out from the interactions.
1) The NPC no longer trusts the party. They rescued him, told him they would keep him safe to keep him quiet as they brought him back, and then sold him up the river. The players actual thoughts, plans and intentions are irrelevant, from the NPC perspective, the party may well have lied to them from the beginning and always intended to hand him over to the criminals. Depending on what the criminals want the NPC may try to get revenge on the party. At the very least, the NPC/criminals may spread the word that the party can't be trusted and don't keep their word.
2) The NPC likely tells the criminals all about the Sphinxes, their magical city, the likely treasures to be found there. The NPC has no reason to keep quiet, it was the party that promised to keep quiet and they shafted him. The NPC will give the information to the criminals to help settle his debt and explain the Sphinxes held him prisoner which was why he was unable to return. What do the criminals want? Wealth, money, power, magic items ... they can set up an expedition to invade the Sphinx city since presumably they have some allies that are pretty powerful or perhaps other adventurers that are more willing to attack the Sphinxes and loot their city. Or they could blackmail the Sphixes to keep their secret since they seem to like extortion.
3) The party has utterly failed to protect the secret of the Sphinxes. The Sphinxes no longer trust them, likely won't deal with them and may seek to take actions that would negatively affect the party, especially when the criminals either show up to sack the Sphinx city or blackmail them by threatening to reveal the location of the city to every powerful faction that might want to invade them for the loot.
None of this is a "special" consequence or punishment. The party makes decisions and actions and the world responds. Lack of planning is irrelevant. Their plan wasn't terrible though they could have thought about it more.
In particular, the party doesn't seem to understand the character abilities very well. Locate Creature appears to be a spell they had access to ... the relatives of the PC are likely well known and the caster may have actually met them at some point. Locate Creature works within 1000' and lasts an hour. The party would have been easily capable of triangulating the location of the captive relatives (unless they happened to be on the other side of 10' wide flowing river oddly enough). However, the party also likely has access to Divination spells, the ability to Scry, maybe even Find the Path which is available at 11th level. Divine where the prisoners are, scry the location, use find the path to find the most direct route. I don't know what classes the characters are but you did mention level 11 or 12 and there is a lot that such characters are capable of achieving.
Anyway, for some reason, the players appeared to want to solve the problem using tier 1 tools (disguise self, some skills) rather than the tier 3 ones available to their characters - and in the longer term that knowledge gap may be the bigger issue. As DM, it is ok to remind the players from time to time of things that their characters would know. It doesn't have to be obvious but if the players don't seem to understand the spells they have access to then you, as DM, can feel free to point out that there may be options there that the character would want to consider before they finalize their plans. There is no reason for the characters to use a bad or inferior plan just because the players have no idea of the character capabilities - so don't do it all the time but it is ok to nudge the players to read their character sheets and consider options when the players are trying to put together a plan.
It sounds like this played out as expected - they were asked to do a thing, they did a thing, there were no twists - the family was released.
For consequences, I would say:
1: They gain a reputation in the crime family as people who can get things done. They get offered contracts from the criminals to do things for them, for a fair price.
2: They gain a reputation as members of the criminal organisation. People start to fear them, they hear people mutter about people selling their morals for coin. If there are lawful-good religous types, their gods may be a little wrathful.
3: They find out that the NPC friend died, either to "pay" or in trying to recover a trasure from a dungeon to pay them off. Perhaps even have them sent to get it, with a vague "one of our guys went to try and get it, but he hasn't come back". Do the full indiana jones "assistant impaled on a spike" reveal.
4: They are approached by another organisation to ask them to become moles in the criminal one, revealing where their boss is, in exchange for safety and relocation.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!