Hi all it's my first post to the forum, I'm trying to learn each session and keep up with the different rules for the game and the player characters while improving each situation and giving the correct information, 

We have 5 sessions under our belt now & while there has been ups and downs with the campaign, generally it's been good, I've added different puzzles and incorporated character backstories into the sessions so everyone feels part of the world. 

The player base consists of: 

Myself a player for a few months in a session that is currently on pause (& a few one shots) 

My previous DM as a player playing a wild surge sorcerer

A player of 1 year in various one shots & the same campaign that is on pause

A new player with 2 sessions prior to my campaign

A new player with 4 sessions of this campaign. (Started late) 

So the campaign was/is going well and the characters have completed all the way to chapter 3 and have had generally good interactions with the town of phanderlin, one of the characters (prev DM) has taken a dislike to toblen as pip was lost on their initial entry to the town in chapter 2, the found him by cragmaw hideout and had 2 townspeople in tow they sent pip back to town with the townspeople so they weren't a risk when entering the hideout. The townspeople were redrands in disguise and took pip to the manor sellers and put him in the cell with the others. Toblen wasnt impressed with this and the character blamed him for not caring for his son etc.

The also think sildar is a d*cl when he has been pleasant up until the most recent session (will get to that soon) 

And they seem to despise Harbin wester. 

Most interactions with all the NPC's have been pleasant, some abusive situation dependant, however it just seems that the party is constantly trying to take advantage of the the town (trying to persuade barthen to give a permanent 20% discount, expecting free lodgings at stonehill inn as the saved pip (even with them being difficult to toblen) etc etc. 

In this session, the party traveled back from the red wizard at the old owl well. The made it back with 1 encounter outside of the town (ogre) and managed to defeat him with ease. 

Once in the town they went straight to the town master to claim their payment for driving the marauders away. At the tor the bugbears disengaged and fled from the battle to the north. The party didn't chase or attempt to stop one to convince it to flee permanently etc and let them go. (One character attempted an op attack and missed) 

When they spoke with the towns master he said that while they seemed to have assisted with wyvern Tor they had not fulfilled the quest fully and offered half payment (the party already has 2k gold shared) and the party decide to argue with him, I allowed them to make deception checks and they failed. After this the player as a DM (playing seemingly true to the character) decided to use maximillions earthen grasp to grapple harbin and take a gold punch from his waistband (only held 10gp) 

With this action I had Harbin call for the guards (6 guards entered & 4 townspeople, we rolled for initiative as the player (prev DM) specifically said 'my had will follow him for 1 minute attempted to grab everything 6 seconds until he fails the saving throw or we enter initiative' we rolled and the 2 other party members took no action, harbin was last in the order and the player wanted to know what he would do. None of the guards attached any of the players and we there as a show of force to not attack the town master in such a brazen way. The player misty stepped out of the room. Sildar was pissed but calmed the situation down with on character handing him notes like 'sildar is a dick' and blatantly pouring ink over the floor from the writing table. He calmed things and got their payment from the town master and said that the townspeople will inevitably speak but if should calm soon and they were free to leave. Throuout the town townspeople looked at them unimpressed /with distain etc. But the actual NPCs they spoke to said it would calm soon and made little jokes like the smithy saying not to use his tools to kill anyone, sister garaele gave each of them a blessing and invited on of the party to the Harper's and they received the boots from edermath and he handpicked them an apple each from his orchard. They also went back and collected the nothic from treswndar to attempt to incorporate into the town (that is a long story) and when the townspeople saw they formed a possy to take it down. The 2 other party members went to get the sister to help & convince the town he was friendly & the other character (prev DM) managed to convince all the town people (nat 20) that the nothic was sent directly from tymora. The sister gave the notice a cold coin to place on the shrine and he did and was transformed into a powerful but completely friendly wizard that helped the party use a speak with dead scroll to talk to a bugbear skull to gain info on the wave echo cave location. 

The issue is not I've had a member call and say they didn't enjoy the session as the whole town now hate them for 1 mistake and miscommunication and the previous DM has said he has a lot to say and most of it won't be nice to hear. 

I know I'm not perfect and I am always learning and have put a lot of time into the game and taking creative outlets to try to enhance the game (the sister and shrine give usable blessings) the nothic becoming a friendly creature and not trying to kill every towns person it sees and the town being retraind and not is tantly lyiching the nothic etc etc

It feels to me like the group don't want or expect consequences to actions. I'm not trying to teach a lesson or hold grudges at all but I want them to realise they can't just beat up who they want and not have any negative consequences.

I have told one player in response to the townspeople being unimpressed with the action, that while I get it's frustrating, shutting down for the session and not talking to any NPcs won't help, find someone they have rapport with and have a friendly conversation, each actual NPC has been pleasant albeit reserved with them but not negative. 

Just really stressed as I want everyone to have fun but I can also see it turing into a major problem if they don't like someone deceiving them and throwing weight around to get their way. 

Does anyone have any advice and tips to avoid this in the future and just in general for a new DM? 

Many thanks! 

My experienced DM two cents: Have the town get attacked next session. Seriously. Don't let the bad feelings fester. An immediate, major threat that the party can help defeat is a classic D&D reset button.

• It lets them be unambiguous heroes.
• It makes the townsfolk grateful and likely to forget minor (or even major) past grievances like the Harbin mess.
• It gives the players a big, fun win and changes the narrative dynamic fast.

LMoP is a good module, but sometimes you need to throw in a big, reactive event to get things back on track quickly rather than letting negativity drag on. This gives you a fresh start.

Also, definitely have a quick, friendly out-of-game chat with your players, especially your former DM. Just a simple "Hey, how can we make sure everyone's having fun and on the same page with how actions/consequences play out?" can work wonders.

Good luck 

$.02 

Hey James! 

Many thanks for your reply! I have spoken at length to one party member in regards to this as they felt like the town hating them was perpetual punishment for one minor blip, with that I explained that yes there is a bit of unrest but that the character interactions while more neutral to them then previous weren't negative and reminded them of the cool things that happened after the fact. 

They said that no-one was willing to talk or discuss the situation which they all were and made a few comments like 'give it some time, things will settle' etc and I asked (in case I had forgotten) who their character has spoken to (no-one) and said that maybe instead of feeling like they have lost all that they worked towards and shutting down, their character (who has very high charisma and normally talks a lot) to speak with an NPC they had good rapport with and explain the situation. 

I messaged the previous DM politely asking for a debrief call but they were busy. Not a problem, but they went on to message 'I have a lot to say about the session and not much of it will be nice to hear'. 

I really want the group to understand that while they are regarded well in the town, that going in all guns blazing to demand they get their way isn't always the best approach and actions can and will have levels of consequences. 

With the first conversation the player said it was the worst thing I could have done and that it ruined the session etc. I gently reminded them that I remained as impartial as possible and that I had no guard attack anyone and it was a show of force to get the players to back down. But that the response in my view was proportionate to the situation & if I wanted to I could have had the party arrested and put in jail, had items or gold taken, had the guards attack, had townspeople refuse to deal with the group etc but that those options were and are disproportionate to the situation. 

I did have to remind them that there is a lot of nuance to the story and many different things they may not understand as they don't have certain information as it's relating to the future campaign but that even when all seems lost there will always be a glimmer of hope and to grasp it wherever possible. 

I'm not looking forward to the call from the previous DM as the message was a bit ominous but I'll happily discuss my reasoning for the decisions but I don't want the group to push me in a direction so that they can do whatever they want and not have any repercussions over disagreements. 

I love your thoughts on having the town be attacked but I fear they will just see it as 'omg again! they need saving? that Harbin is useless and why do we keep having to defend them' (I only say this through experience of their dynamic & behaviour at the table but could be completely wrong) 

Maybe once things settle down in game with the town, and they are back on track, after they complete cragmaw castle they could return to the town to celebrations, a town wide party & be welcomed as the heros?

Thanks again! 

I'm not familiar with this module so I can't speak to the plot specifics, but it sounds to me like you're dealing with an immature player. And it's a real shame it's someone with DMing experience.

Here's some general observations I've made:

• Players (even experienced ones) can often have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to NPCs who withhold information, are not immediately friendly, or don't gush with gratitude after a "heroic" feat. Encountering a number of NPCs like this in a row can snowball into general unhappiness toward a given location or session.
• If a player feels entitled to a certain outcome OR has convinced themselves their behavior was justified, even reasonable consequences can be interpreted as unfair.
• People who are newer to TTRPGs and/or to a certain DMing style might come in with preconceptions about what can and should be acceptable for social encounters. 
• Sometimes, players get mad because it's a proxy for (or triggers) real life stuff, sparking a disproportionate response. 

Now here are some things I've learned about player management:

• You don't have to water down your NPC's reactions if you feel they're reasonable, but it can help to give clues in roleplay about what those consequences might be so your players have a chance to reconsider.
• Players can be real dumb and entitled, so your clues need to be in flashing neon lights sometimes. (Which, depending on the situation, might even include a meta warning. E.g., "Your passive insight is high enough that you can tell you're getting into political hot water. If you don't change your tactics, you think the town might turn against you.")
• Being clear with expectations/norms in-game and out can help mitigate player entitlement.
• Just because a player wants or expects something does not mean you need to bend over backwards to provide it. If your brand of fun isn't compatible with theirs, and you can't work out a happy compromise, it's best to part ways.
• Open, honest communication should happen early and often. Also, trying to correct undesirable player behavior through roleplay almost never ends well. Solve plot problems in-game and people problems out of it.
• While it's good to be open to feedback and seek to hone your DMing skills, you are not obligated to change your rulings just to appease people. If you made an actual mistake, admit it and move on. (And get used to it, because it'll happen even when you're a veteran.) If someone just didn't agree with your ruling, they can pound sand. It's your game. Don't set a precedent that players can argue with you to get their way.

For your particular case, if it's just the one unhappy player, I'd talk to them about what kind of gaming experience they are looking for and what you intend to provide. And it doesn't hurt to make sure there are a handful of NPCs that the party can build positive relationships with. Could be a bartender with a grudge against the townmaster, a cheerful Harper, a sentient rock who dreams of being a mountain, etc...Especially after a sour patch of roleplay experiences, throwing the party a staunch ally or adorable pet/mascot can help them stay engaged.

Good luck!

It sounds like the previous DM either expects a VERY different game, or is playing in bad faith. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were the ones to initiate hostilities in the town? And then they want to complain afterwards? 

If I were you I'd sit the group down asap and have a new session zero - ask very directly if they want to play a game where roleplay and consequences matter, or if they just want to play a dungeon crawler/ loot grabbing game. That would at least be my two cents. 

The major cause of player unhappiness with interactions with NPCs is lack of clarity. While to you with your DM information it might be completely clear why NPCs are acting the way they are, very often this is not the case for the players. If players don't understand the NPCs motivations then conflicts may appear arbitrary and unfair leading to player frustration and unhappiness. 

For instance, for the bugbear quest, it shouldn't have taken until the PCs had returned to Phandalin and asking for their reward for them to know they hadn't completed the quest. If the intention is that the bugbears running away means the quest is incomplete, the bugbears should shout : "You may have beaten us this time, but we'll be back and then you'll be sorry" as they are running away. The wyvern should say "Thanks for driving them off, but I'm worried they might have a camp out in the woods." and the bugbears should ambush them on their way back to Phandalin if the party still decide to head back to town having not completed the quest.

You need to put flashing sign posts on stuff and have NPCs explicitly say why they are upset, or it is very common for players to not notice, or not know what to make of it. 

+ 1 for telegraphing consequences ahead of time. It's also okay to point out things that the characters might notice that the players don't. Since the players don't live in a world with bugbear marauders, it might seem to them that chasing them off is just as good as defeating them outright. But characters who live in that world would not have to be very smart or experienced to know that fleeing marauders tend to come back. They would also know basic town etiquette and what is likely to happen when you violate it.

You control the action. When a player says, "I cast Finger of Death at the duke" in the middle of the banquet scene, you have the power to stop, rewind that action, and point out what their character knows is likely to happen as a consequence. At this point you can also let other players intervene in character. If after all that they still want to do it, only then does the spell go off.

Obviously, we're only hearing one side of this, buuuut...

In a town that was already overrun by thugs and bullies before the party even got there, the party is acting like thugs and bullies and are confused why the townsfolk don't like them more?

Wow, that truly is a mystery

Thanks for the response! I agree, it definitely feels that way, I'm planning another session 0 to let everyone get their thoughts on the table, explain in better detail the reasons the events happened and that as a role playing game they can choose to talk through it and/or persuade/decieve NPC's or they can initiate a fight but that actions can and do have consequences and that its never as a punishment but part of the game. 

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Obviously, we're only hearing one side of this, buuuut...

In a town that was already overrun by thugs and bullies before the party even got there, the party is acting like thugs and bullies and are confused why the townsfolk don't like them more?

Wow, that truly is a mystery

 Definitely, this is my biggest argument, they were extremely vocal on absolutely hating the red brands and took great pleasure in taking every single one of them down. Now they are acting exactly the same as the red brands were and expect everyone in the town to accept it as they have helped different people in the town. 🤦‍♂️

Quote from scatterbraind >>

+ 1 for telegraphing consequences ahead of time. It's also okay to point out things that the characters might notice that the players don't. Since the players don't live in a world with bugbear marauders, it might seem to them that chasing them off is just as good as defeating them outright. But characters who live in that world would not have to be very smart or experienced to know that fleeing marauders tend to come back. They would also know basic town etiquette and what is likely to happen when you violate it.

You control the action. When a player says, "I cast Finger of Death at the duke" in the middle of the banquet scene, you have the power to stop, rewind that action, and point out what their character knows is likely to happen as a consequence. At this point you can also let other players intervene in character. If after all that they still want to do it, only then does the spell go off.

 I hadn't thought about rewinding an action, that being said the action was well within the characters scope and reasoning behind the action. I do feel it was done in malice though as the player felt hard done be.