So, I have a BBG who is trying to enslave the party...however, their saving throughs are extremely high! I was looking at the Dust of Deliciousness and it only gives disadvantage on Wisdom saving throws. Is there a magic item that bestows disadvantage on all saving throws? or more specifically disadvantage on constitution? I'm looking for an item, not a spell. Thanks in advance
EDIT: Now that I look at it, Enslave is not the right word-it's more convincing them, however he has an item that causes a con save. There have been complaints that things are too easy for them (they are now level 10 and the average Con save that they roll has been in the 20s. It's more wanting to create a sense of urgency and shake them up, since they have said rolls have been too easy, without obviously trying to destroy them (which is why I am hesitant to use a home brew item).
The Staff of Withering imposes disadvantage on STR or CON saves and ability checks for an hour if the target fails the save. Also, if someone has three levels of exhaustion, that'll impose disadvantages on all attacks and saves. I don't know of an item that can impose exhaustion levels directly, but there's plenty of wiggle room with cursed objects and regular game mechanics (like preventing the party from getting a long rest, forced marches, etc.).
I will say, though, it sounds a little like you're looking for a mechanic to effect a specific result (enslaving the party), which can be kinda railroady and feel like DM vs. players. I obviously don't know your table or your motivations, but I'd be a little cautious in looking for ways to get around party strengths if the intention is to push them into a narrative corner. The backlash can cause some friction among players that you might not want to deal with. Just something to consider.
Nothing jumps out at me. I might suggest that you homebrew an item that your BBEG can cast Bane from or maybe give the BBEG a negative plane version of Bountiful Luck Feat that grants disadvantage to a saving throw being made against them as a reaction. Possibly as a Legendary Action with the same bit.
I've used a lantern with a Sickening Radiance enchantment to pretty devastating effect before. If there is no item, create it.
As for the enslavement of your PCs, I might agree that there are better plot mechanics out there. There are only so many directions to go once you capture or enslave a PC. Most of those directions are towards a cemetery or down a set of rails.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It sounds like you are the dm and looking for a specific effect. Is there a reason you are not home brewing something? If you want a magic item the party can find, have a brass key they find in a room of the dungeon that turns out to be cursed.
If you want you could have them poisoned in a social encounter temporarily lowering their saves.
Now that I look at it, Enslave is not the right word-it's more convincing them, however he has an item that causes a con save. There have been complaints that things are too easy for them (they are now level 10 and the average Con save that they roll has been in the 20s. It's more wanting to create a sense of urgency and shake them up, since they have said rolls have been too easy, without obviously trying to destroy them (which is why I am hesitant to use a home brew item). They may not even get to this point, I am just thinking of options for the group to make it more exciting.
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‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
Now that I look at it, Enslave is not the right word-it's more convincing them, however he has an item that causes a con save. There have been complaints that things are too easy for them (they are now level 10 and the average Con save that they roll has been in the 20s.
Why are their save bonuses that high? I would expect a con save bonus somewhere between +2 and +6 at level 10.
Part of being the DM is being able to invent new magic items. Congratulations, you just created a magic item that conveys disadvantage on savings throws.
Dude, its called creating an item to do it. Understand your players will expect to be able to use said item. If so, put an alignment restriction on it, say it only works on Good OR Lawful OR Chaotic as a limiter or make it single use. Because otherwise, your players will use it left and right.
Gygax routinely destroyed magic items to because he was play testing items to see how powerful it gets. Random guys online might not like you giving them the ability to impose disadvantage and then taking it away because its ruining the game.
Well, you don't need to find a singular magic item to give them disadvantages on saving throws, you could just make a place for them to find heaps and heaps of cursed coins, giving them disadvantage on all saving throws until a high level spell or some sort of curing ritual removes the curse.
I would not make it a magic item if the whole issue is that the party feels too strong compared to the monsters. Make it a property of the BBEG or its attack. "Overpowering Presence" or something.
I will say, though, it sounds a little like you're looking for a mechanic to effect a specific result (enslaving the party), which can be kinda railroady and feel like DM vs. players. I obviously don't know your table or your motivations, but I'd be a little cautious in looking for ways to get around party strengths if the intention is to push them into a narrative corner. The backlash can cause some friction among players that you might not want to deal with. Just something to consider.
I see a lot of instances here where a DM wants something to happen, so they try to force the math or do some other trick that attempts to give the party an illusion of choice when there's really only one way you're prepared to go. I would agree that this is a method to avoid, although to be clear, railroading itself isn't inherently bad. Just be upfront about it.
If you need to convince them to do something, force their hand with plot. Capture an NPC or hold something else they value hostage. Project dire consequences (for others if not for them) if they say no.
But yeah outside of plot points, I absolutely give my monsters features, items, and spells that surpass what PCs have regular access to. That is your prerogative as DM and I've found it to be a great way to telegraph that a particular enemy is above and beyond the usual threats they face.
Just give the BBEG stupidly high DCs. Though I recommend against this plot, 'enslave the PCs' sounds like the sort of plot that players hate.
It depends how it is done I have an aboleth who presently has 2 in a party of 8 enslaved as its informants and aids, the players are loving it as they get to be sneaky and secretive and act against the rest of the party without revealing themselves. They also avoid combat as much as possible to avoid those wisdom save throws (one is a ranger the other a wizard) and of course the aboleth enemies avoid hitting them.
This has been going on for 4 sessions and I anticipate another 6-8 before the other characters realize an aboleth is even involved.
I know this is a necro, but I can't imagine how that could happen. A level 10 character with Resilient (Con) in a paladin's aura might have a +10 con save... but at the cost of not using an ASI for something else. I mean... are you saying your party is a melee group standing around a paladin... and you aren't dumping non-Con save AoE spells from range on them?
The spell you're looking for isn't a homebrew Con attack... it's a flying/teleporting dude with Fireball, lol.
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So, I have a BBG who is trying to enslave the party...however, their saving throughs are extremely high! I was looking at the Dust of Deliciousness and it only gives disadvantage on Wisdom saving throws. Is there a magic item that bestows disadvantage on all saving throws? or more specifically disadvantage on constitution? I'm looking for an item, not a spell. Thanks in advance
EDIT: Now that I look at it, Enslave is not the right word-it's more convincing them, however he has an item that causes a con save. There have been complaints that things are too easy for them (they are now level 10 and the average Con save that they roll has been in the 20s. It's more wanting to create a sense of urgency and shake them up, since they have said rolls have been too easy, without obviously trying to destroy them (which is why I am hesitant to use a home brew item).
‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
Just give the BBEG stupidly high DCs. Though I recommend against this plot, 'enslave the PCs' sounds like the sort of plot that players hate.
The Staff of Withering imposes disadvantage on STR or CON saves and ability checks for an hour if the target fails the save. Also, if someone has three levels of exhaustion, that'll impose disadvantages on all attacks and saves. I don't know of an item that can impose exhaustion levels directly, but there's plenty of wiggle room with cursed objects and regular game mechanics (like preventing the party from getting a long rest, forced marches, etc.).
I will say, though, it sounds a little like you're looking for a mechanic to effect a specific result (enslaving the party), which can be kinda railroady and feel like DM vs. players. I obviously don't know your table or your motivations, but I'd be a little cautious in looking for ways to get around party strengths if the intention is to push them into a narrative corner. The backlash can cause some friction among players that you might not want to deal with. Just something to consider.
Nothing jumps out at me. I might suggest that you homebrew an item that your BBEG can cast Bane from or maybe give the BBEG a negative plane version of Bountiful Luck Feat that grants disadvantage to a saving throw being made against them as a reaction. Possibly as a Legendary Action with the same bit.
I've used a lantern with a Sickening Radiance enchantment to pretty devastating effect before. If there is no item, create it.
As for the enslavement of your PCs, I might agree that there are better plot mechanics out there. There are only so many directions to go once you capture or enslave a PC. Most of those directions are towards a cemetery or down a set of rails.
Good luck, hope this helps!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It sounds like you are the dm and looking for a specific effect. Is there a reason you are not home brewing something?
If you want a magic item the party can find, have a brass key they find in a room of the dungeon that turns out to be cursed.
If you want you could have them poisoned in a social encounter temporarily lowering their saves.
Not exactly what you are looking for but could be a good starting point on a homebrew cursed item https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/cursed-luckstone
Now that I look at it, Enslave is not the right word-it's more convincing them, however he has an item that causes a con save. There have been complaints that things are too easy for them (they are now level 10 and the average Con save that they roll has been in the 20s. It's more wanting to create a sense of urgency and shake them up, since they have said rolls have been too easy, without obviously trying to destroy them (which is why I am hesitant to use a home brew item). They may not even get to this point, I am just thinking of options for the group to make it more exciting.
‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
I'll just note that being official doesn't make the item more fair.
That said, are you looking for something the bbeg can have, or are you looking for something to give the players with the reduced save effect?
I did find this which impacts saves https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/stone-of-ill-luck
Why are their save bonuses that high? I would expect a con save bonus somewhere between +2 and +6 at level 10.
Different class abilities, spells, items all contribute
‘A’OHE PU’U KI’EKI’E KE HO’A’O ‘IA E PI’I – (No cliff is so tall it cannot be climbed.)
Part of being the DM is being able to invent new magic items. Congratulations, you just created a magic item that conveys disadvantage on savings throws.
Dude, its called creating an item to do it. Understand your players will expect to be able to use said item. If so, put an alignment restriction on it, say it only works on Good OR Lawful OR Chaotic as a limiter or make it single use. Because otherwise, your players will use it left and right.
Gygax routinely destroyed magic items to because he was play testing items to see how powerful it gets. Random guys online might not like you giving them the ability to impose disadvantage and then taking it away because its ruining the game.
Well, you don't need to find a singular magic item to give them disadvantages on saving throws, you could just make a place for them to find heaps and heaps of cursed coins, giving them disadvantage on all saving throws until a high level spell or some sort of curing ritual removes the curse.
I would not make it a magic item if the whole issue is that the party feels too strong compared to the monsters. Make it a property of the BBEG or its attack. "Overpowering Presence" or something.
I see a lot of instances here where a DM wants something to happen, so they try to force the math or do some other trick that attempts to give the party an illusion of choice when there's really only one way you're prepared to go. I would agree that this is a method to avoid, although to be clear, railroading itself isn't inherently bad. Just be upfront about it.
If you need to convince them to do something, force their hand with plot. Capture an NPC or hold something else they value hostage. Project dire consequences (for others if not for them) if they say no.
But yeah outside of plot points, I absolutely give my monsters features, items, and spells that surpass what PCs have regular access to. That is your prerogative as DM and I've found it to be a great way to telegraph that a particular enemy is above and beyond the usual threats they face.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
It depends how it is done I have an aboleth who presently has 2 in a party of 8 enslaved as its informants and aids, the players are loving it as they get to be sneaky and secretive and act against the rest of the party without revealing themselves. They also avoid combat as much as possible to avoid those wisdom save throws (one is a ranger the other a wizard) and of course the aboleth enemies avoid hitting them.
This has been going on for 4 sessions and I anticipate another 6-8 before the other characters realize an aboleth is even involved.
I know this is a necro, but I can't imagine how that could happen. A level 10 character with Resilient (Con) in a paladin's aura might have a +10 con save... but at the cost of not using an ASI for something else. I mean... are you saying your party is a melee group standing around a paladin... and you aren't dumping non-Con save AoE spells from range on them?
The spell you're looking for isn't a homebrew Con attack... it's a flying/teleporting dude with Fireball, lol.