Normally i would written this in an already existing post, but i have received too many warnings for necroing old posts so here goes.
In my current campaign, where my pc is wizard 3 (order of scribes)/ cleric 1 (Knowledge/Deneir) who found out that our Charismatic Grave Cleric(supposedly Kelemvor) to be a Warlock revering an unholy being(probably undying, undead or something similar), got him redhanded while practicing a ritual from a grimoire which responded to Detect Magic as strong/otherworldy necromancy, and also somehow to detect evil and good as well anyway, i've been through alot with this Hypocrite and i am seeking ways to confront him and prod him to way of atonement, after my discovery we had a private converisaton where he evaded my most questions, acted like he is in control yet he was shaken, and given his word to me that this will not cause any problems or threat to our party, where i responded "better be, or else..." and our convo was shut due to circumstances... So i am planning to use suggestion on him in combat, offer him my ring of mind shielding and suggest him to cut his telepathical connection with his patron with the ring, my PC is somewhat a walking sage when it comes to Arcane Arts, Religion, History so i'll say him that patrons of eldritch practitioners can not take back powers they granted, thus he can continue leeching his patron's arcane energy with his spells, that he does not need to bend before him... If his saving throw succeeds againts my suggestion spell, i might as well use gift of gab on him as reaction and chant a prayer to Deneir instead or simply replicate the verbal components of a self target spell i have like mage armor... He is not especially wise for a cleric i guess and i am not sure if he has wisdom saving throw proficient, but so far this the best solution i could come up with.
We have a rather strong elven monster slayer with undead allergy, and a elven monk/sorceror with silver dragon anima who makes the calls rather than his own spirit/soul/concious in him in our group so i want to find a solution as covertly as i can, otherwise he'll probably end dead, and that needs to be averted by all means as we are playing ToA, we have already lost 3 members and an npc guide so far and with soulmonger active this kinda sucks. Any suggestions for a peaceful solution (spell suggestions are more welcome as he is not really being cooperative, and i have low charisma which makes thing even more difficult).
Also, what could the patron do at worst? Would he care alot about a lowly warlock like him. (I suspect about 3 entities, as potential patrons for him, Larloch, Aumvor or Vecna, and my instincts tell me the second is the real candidate, while the name was never used in our game, i feel that the grimoire he uses is possibly the Briel's Book of Shadows, While he comes from Daggerford in his youth, he spent alot of time in Baldur's Gate and it's environs for his backstory, and as someone who spent lots of time in libraries Baldur's Gate and Candlekeep i know Briel tried starting magery schools couple of times in those locations...
Anyway i am open to any suggestion on how to proceed, except for talking to party as i am kinda sure they will resort to bloodshed the instant they learn and verify his identity. (sigh good pcs these days...)
inter-party in-character conflict is always difficult to manage. Usually in the Session Zero the DM should present whether or not this kind of PVP spellcasting and such would be allowed in their game. As unsatisfying as it might be to plan something like this out ahead of time, I think your best bet is to talk to your group out of character to see if pursuing this conflict will be a problem for any of the players there... if nothing else, you can figure out exactly what the rules in-game are for someone leaving their warlock patron... it seems to vary wildly from table to table whether or not Warlocks lose their powers when they leave their patron.
First off, it sounds like your campaign is quite well embedded in the lore for all of this to make sense, so if that's the case then that's pretty cool.
I would avoid any inter-party spellcasting and such, because you're taking away their control (ok if the world, piloted by the DM, does it, not so much for other players). Important things you should do here:
Discuss this with your DM. The DM needs to know this sort of thing ahead of time. Remember, the warlock patron is a part of the world, so the DM is roleplaying their part - only them and the warlock player know who or what the patron is, and only the DM knows how important this warlock is to them. The DM can also advise whether casting suggestion on each other is acceptable in their campaign or not - you might have to have a non-magical conversation with the character.
Ask the player (or their character if you're keeping it all in-character) whether they want to be separated from theis patron. Chances are, this is along the same lines as the barbarian saying "books are bad, your wizard should get rid of their spellbook". It's one thing for you to have that conversation in-character with the barbarian, explaining the importance of the book; It's another for the barbarian to use magic to make you get rid of your book.
If the player says they don't want to do that, then find a suitable workaround for your group - keep a close eye on them but keep their secret, for example. The other player has obviously decided to play a secretive warlock, so don't force them to change their character because "It's what your character would do", because that sucks, plain and simple. Best case scenario they can't take any more levels in Warlock, worst case scenario they lose all their powers and you get killed by their patron.
This sort of thing absolutely needs to be moderated through the DM, because it's about building the story and the DM will need to go back & forth between you with more information, which the other player may not know - perhaps the patron overpowers the ring, or perhaps the warlock does want to be free from the patron. The most important thing is that everyone has fun - and springing this plan on another player might be fun, but it probably won't. You knight get a rage-quit out of it from some, whilst others think it's an awesome addition to the story.
Interparty pvp is allowed, but it's not like we like it, that is why i am looking for a solution other than direct confrontation that can result in vioelence, my pc is quite touchy about violence especially now that the curse of death is around...
I'd say then that your best bet is to look at this as less of a technical challenge in terms of how, mechanically, to decouple your Warlock from their patron and instead look at it as a roleplay challenge to either have as a conversation in-character or to figure out what needs to happen for your character to become comfortable working with them. If you came into this with a group that is overtly acceptable of inter-party PVP and this player deliberately created a character that clashed with the rest of the party to the point that, in-character, he pretended to be a different class, then some form of conflict feels like the point. Why create a character like that if you didn't intend to poke the hornet's nest at some point?
So, with that in mind... I think your Ring of Mind Shielding idea is actually solid, but I'd recommend avoiding casting Suggestion on your fellow party member unless things get dire. If you confront them about it and the Warlock suddenly turns hostile... well, my assumption then is that they created this character because they wanted this kind of PVP to happen at some point, so have fun with it lol
His character from my point of view having a dilemma, he probably once a devout believer of Kelemvor, yet now that the Curse of Death became rampant his faith is shaken, he obviously became phobic of death which is unsightly for a Kelemvor cleric, but it's not like my character thinks badly of him just because of this as he is afraid of death as well...
About inter party casting and pvp, we do not have such limitations as long as the rp is consistent, we are adult players, so you do not see bullying and childish behaviour for the most part. It is not like my pc is trying to get rid of him, he is worried about his teammate and looking for a way to help him redeem himself. Powerhungry liches and demons are not simply hungry, they are but the agents of hunger, envy and greed whether they are aware or not. Their curiosity and ambitions are usually boundless and their self confidence unfounded(even if they are strong, they almost always arrogant), my PC is well aware of their nature as a bookworm and as someone who had the opportunity to have chats with Volo and within the context of story he even for a brief time, connected to metatext, where he gained his level as cleric(thus expertise in history and religion, while seeing a brief history of realms in live/fast forward mode).
Rage quit thing out of question it seems, warlock is roleplaying quite well, the way his character is shaken, and the way he acts worried as his secret can come into daylight now. DM is simply standing idle, i mean he is not getting between our confrontation and probably kinda enjoying it. Which is ok for us(he deserves to have fun too every now and then). Anyway, i am kind of sure that i can not convince him right away as my character is not the charismatic sort, so i'll probably need help from my arcane arts, my purpose is not to seperate him from his warlock class but to find a way to stop their communication, as i suspect his patron is currently briefing him about a dark quest and slowly pulling him to dark side, i need to find a solution in which he can have his powers as a warlock while ignoring his patron and his quests, like "sorry dude, i kinda tricked you to make the contract unkowingly as i was afraid of death, now that i have the grimoire, it is not like i need you, and you seem to see me as a servant rather than coworker anyway, so you won't be reaching my mind again, -puts on the ring-": this sorta solution is what i need but i lack the persuasiveness to convince him, as the guy used the be the social guy of our group (still is in a way).
Reason i am asking for advice is simple, my pc has 19 int, clearly much more than i do irl, i usually think for days before/between sessions for the course of actions to take to be able to roleplay him effectively, though i am at a point where i need cloud/hive mind sorta thing to come up with a solution...(sigh i won't be playing a int pc for long long time, seems i have forgotten how hard it could be to roleplay extreme intelligence)
Patrons are very powerful they can do basically anything a powerful monster could to a player and there are also some monsters that suggest what happens to a pact breaking warlock like the deathlock and monsters specific to patrons like vecna's nothic. It's also worth noting that while there is no rule saying a patron can take away power if it wants, many dms rule they can and they could also decide on a curse that could do basically anything.
You can always try trading, fighting or hiding your away out of pact obligations as well. Spells like mind blank or maybe nondetection could hide them, a patron may trade for an artifact or other souls if you capture them with something like soul cage and its also possible that a patron holds the pact indirectly for example a minion of there's made it and you can kill that minion to get out.
As he is a cleric of Kelemvor as well, don't you think, repenting and trusting in your faith and deity is the better option? My character kinda thinks or rather feels his deity won't leave him, not to mention the confused bugger looks angelic (with his 18 charisma, sigh...) the guy grew with an undertaker and took on his role when his caretaker was dead, so he kinda seen too many corpses through out his life, but still was alien to the process in which they die, killing and seeing others killed infront of his eyes probably depressed him, weaken his faith and make him fear death, or perhaps i am thinking too much(that is what scholars do tho). His deity heard him in last session as a cleric of Deneir, my pc sensed his presence in the funeral, or at least his influence, yet he is still testing his deity's patience. As a scholar my pc is aware that Kelemvor is not he used to be a few decades ago, colder now for some reason, as a result whole realms' perception to death is changing, many denizens of Faerun are starting to fear death more than they used to, as if Myrkul took the reins again...
Well you can't make that decision for another player or the god but its possible a god might protect him but that's a big if. Its unclear if the god can and it may no be free. It could require effectively making a pact with that god offering service or taking an oath. You could have to sever all ties with the original power which could be mean losing class features. Again its very dm dependent. There's also nothing to say that entity may not still try to punish you even with a god protection you may pay a price and still have some risk just with some added divine protection.
Have you considered praying to Kelemvor for guidance? If Kelemvor is with him then you can potentially seek guidance from them, I imagine that as a god is more powerful than a patron, you could ask whether your plan with the ring would work. This would be a roleplay technique to gain knowledge from the DM about exactly how patron magic works in their world. It might also mean the DM gets to make a quest, EG "the ring will work, but only for so long, you need the artefact of BleBleBle to fully sever the patrons link to their powers", or "this ritual must be completed to achieve what you seek".
It seems to me that if your character is looking to free their friend from the patron and return them to Kelemvor, they may well seek out a temple of Kelemvor to pray for guidance. If you're not feeling that you're in immediate danger, then perhaps keep the secret whilst seeking the answers in the game.
Interparty pvp is allowed, but it's not like we like it, that is why i am looking for a solution other than direct confrontation that can result in vioelence, my pc is quite touchy about violence especially now that the curse of death is around...
The solution is for everyone to step out of character and talk it over.
Think about it. You are a person playing a character that seems intent on invalidating the character choice of another person. You're literally trying to tell them how to play their character. You seem very sure that other persons at the table would also be happy to invalidate that person's character choice. To borrow a phrase form Matt Colville, you're all being wangrods. More important than anything in the game is the fact that you are real people who came together to play a game. Figure out a way to do that instead of just falling back on the "that's what my character would do" response.
You are on the same team. That is a basic and fundamental requirement for the game to work as intended. So figure out a way for your characters to justify being on the same team with this guy. Media is littered with tropes of good characters working with less savory characters for the greater good. Pick one.
Dude i do not care how he plays his character, my pc does. So it's not outgame issue, from an outgame perspective i even like his roleplaying of cowardly priest seeking refuge from a dark patron now that he knows his soul is in danger due to curse of death. But whether i like it or not my pc does not care. I do not use my pc as a puppet to satisfy my own ego, i serve the character i create, his personality, backstory, ideals, bonds, flaws dictate how he moves, and i adhere to them.
And, all current characters except mine entered the game after session zero as original characters were wiped out except mine, and we do not really have rules to limit characters to be compatible choices. Anyone can play a character he wants, provided that he can roleplay the character properly, he is roleplaying properly as well, i have no qualms about him or his character, my pc is another issue though...
And team thing does not work in our game our characters are from different temples, different walks of life, been acquinted for a few days, that is all there is to it, it's not like my character owes allegiance to his fellow party members, same goes for other members as well, everyone has their own agenda for being here. The problem is his pc looks like a decent fellow, and he looks lost or at least my pc thinks so with his 19 int 16 wis and highly keen insight, so he is just trying to help a fellow cleric who is slowly but surely straying from the path of his atonement/redemption.
Media? We are not theming our characters after popular stuff, we roll, we look at our dice, we think for a week, write a story including our pcs family, where he lived how he lived etc, and join the game. eg: summary: my character comes from a somewhat wealthy family from Memnon, his father is of Calishite descent and mother has Bedine ancestory. Most people in his family has some arcane aptitude, thus he is sent to guild arcane in memnon, there he got a friend from Calimport who was also a traders family's heir, in their 15's they left the guild and sailed North, as apprentices of a naval wizard, he practiced navigation and cartography. In the mean time, efreeti and djinni masters, Calim and Memnon awaken, his family moved from their homeland to South East Calimshan, without him knowing, on his travels he managed to contact his family(he is in his early 20s now) and learned that they are safe when he was in Baldur's Gate (to visit Candle Keep for some geogrpahic records), here he got acquinted with Syndra Silvermane and a young apprenticer(a fellow pc who died) agreed to go to Chult, as Syndra offered him an incomplete map of Chult yet a masterwork one, he came to port Nyanzaru with this fellow Artificier, a newly freed slave and a ruffian so on.
We do not plan our characters alot ahead too, for example, my character has been sneaking alot, and had to survive in forest for some time, he did it succesfully, he spent more time like a ranger than a cleric or a wizard so i might as well get a ranger level when i level up(so it's not like we are powerplayers who are after the most efficient builds when we are actually playing)
That said, we need no justification for our actions as long as the way we act is consistent with our pcs character/demeanor... And so far everyone is acting somewhat properly. We do not require debates as to how we shall make it work, that is why i started this thread, my character is looking for a solution to make him atone for his sin, and my intelligence is not as high as my pc, thus i am trying to make use of crowd, cloud, community in order to roleplay 19 int better.
The problem with Warlock Patrons is, despite overtly not being Gods (except for the ones that are), which have all kinds of built-in protections to explain why you can't just kill them or otherwise mess with them directly, they're also not really something any of the game's rules really expect players to directly combat. Even when a Patron is something that we know has a stat block in the game. So there's no real rules about what works on them and what doesn't, or how they could retaliate if they were opposed, or even what happens to the Warlock if their Patron no longer supports them.
In that case, then, I think it's just a matter of doing enough to convince the DM that you're investing real, serious resources into this. Whether that's sacrificing a magic item to give to the warlock, in the case of your Ring of Mind Shielding, or if it means figuring out who, exactly, their Patron is, and then researching what its deal is and how you can harm it, or at least shield someone from its influence. I think learning the name of the Patron should be your top priority right now. Once you know that you're just a solid Arcana or Religion check away from knowing whether your plan will work, or if there's more steps you'll have to take before you risk it.
So i am planning to use suggestion on him in combat, offer him my ring of mind shielding and suggest him to cut his telepathical connection with his patron with the ring, my PC is somewhat a walking sage when it comes to Arcane Arts, Religion, History so i'll say him that patrons of eldritch practitioners can not take back powers they granted, thus he can continue leeching his patron's arcane energy with his spells, that he does not need to bend before him... If his saving throw succeeds againts my suggestion spell, i might as well use gift of gab on him as reaction and chant a prayer to Deneir instead or simply replicate the verbal components of a self target spell i have like mage armor... He is not especially wise for a cleric i guess and i am not sure if he has wisdom saving throw proficient, but so far this the best solution i could come up with.
Both of the things I highlighted are not up to you to decide, they're up to the DM. You have no idea if there's a telepathic connection between patron and warlock, nor what will happen if you do manage to sever the connection
If you are RPing that your character thinks they know these things and are just BSing their way through it, then it's still a tricky PvP situation that you should be avoiding
If, instead, you think you get to decide for another player and the DM how their character works, I would suggest that you don't do that
Also, I have no idea what you think you're trying to accomplish with "simply replicate the verbal components of a self target spell i have like mage armor"
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The first rule of the game is it should be fun for everyone. Removing the agency another player has to control their character is very likely not to be fun for them.
I also see no reason why they can not restore themselves with their patron when the spell ends so your solution is very likely to be ineffective even if your assumptions are correct.
The only solution as I can see it is to explain your dilemma to the DM and the warlock player (or maybe the whole group) and come up with a solution that everyone is happy with. Maybe the warlock is happy for suggestion to work, maybe they decide their character will be persuaded, maybe your wizard will keep quiet about it. Maybe the patron will do something that makes the warlock realise just how evil it is and he must break his relationship with it......
The instant my pc opens his mouth about the warlock, there will be bloodshed in group, as our ranger now can cast zone of truth(monster slayer), and his favored enemy is undead(his family is a victim of undead attacks). And not to mention bahamut worshipping ascendant dragon monk/bladesinger with a silver dragon anima in him... I am trying to save the life of this warlock fellow. AntonSirius, ...with mage armor... i was talking about gift of gab spell, to make him forget i casted suggestion on him as well as the party... anyway ia m not think about i decide anything, cool down, my character as freaking cleric is trying to help a fellow cleric who is steadily walking to his doom, through my familiar i'm watching him all the time as he slowly becomes insane, digging his own grave(literally) then making himself a funeral ceremony, then closing the grave...anyway i am asking for suggestions to help, not really asking for criticism, if you have no suggestions why are you in this thread anyway?
Jegpeg, he is quite aware that his Patron is evil. He is shaken, i've sensed his emotion, he has a cold, fair face just like any other descendant of Netheril, yet i've seen the fear in his eyes.
The instant my pc opens his mouth about the warlock, there will be bloodshed in group, as our ranger now can cast zone of truth(monster slayer), and his favored enemy is undead(his family is a victim of undead attacks). And not to mention bahamut worshipping ascendant dragon monk/bladesinger with a silver dragon anima in him... I am trying to save the life of this warlock fellow. AntonSirius, ...with mage armor... i was talking about gift of gab spell, to make him forget i casted suggestion on him as well as the party... anyway ia m not think about i decide anything, cool down, my character as freaking cleric is trying to help a fellow cleric who is steadily walking to his doom, through my familiar i'm watching him all the time as he slowly becomes insane, digging his own grave(literally) then making himself a funeral ceremony, then closing the grave...anyway i am asking for suggestions to help, not really asking for criticism, if you have no suggestions why are you in this thread anyway?
mage armor has a range of touch, not self. Hence my confusion -- you made it sound like you were trying to twist some self spell to work like mage armor, or something, which made no sense
The warlock having an Undead or Undying patron does not make them undead too, so I don't know why you would think the ranger would be immediately hostile to them if the fact that they're a warlock was revealed -- or for that matter, why the monk/wizard would be at all. You're either making assumptions, or leaving big chunks of the campaign history out -- either way it makes it difficult for anyone here to give you what it is you say you want. Plus, if the warlock is acting the way you describe and showing overt signs of madness, what makes you think you're even the only one who's figured it out? Maybe the ranger and monk/wizard already know and don't care, or aren't ready to act on that info yet
The bottom line, for me, is this. If your fellow PLAYER has chosen to play a character that's heading down a path of insanity, the way to help them is not to make character choices for them and strip them of their agency. Don't simply blunder in and try to break their pact; you need to ask the PLAYER what story it is they want to tell, and if you have a role to play in that story. Then you can tailor the actions of your character to fit
Asking the forum how your character can do things to another character without the other character or player's input is generally going to get a bad reaction
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Jegpeg, he is quite aware that his Patron is evil. He is shaken, i've sensed his emotion, he has a cold, fair face just like any other descendant of Netheril, yet i've seen the fear in his eyes.
I thought I had made it clear that my suggestion was to talk it though out of character.
I was once in a game where at sea we defeated a warlock who had a hellfire weapon, the warlock was a major threat to the innocents that sailed the sea we had encountererd them before but they escaped. One player was a greedy ex-pirate (who still had ambitions to be a pirate captain) from memory I think we cast the weapon into the sea or something but it appeared in the room of the ex pirate. We had made it clear that we needed to be very caustious dealing with the ship and its contents because of the evil they were connected to though the ex-pirate didn't really see the danger.
What really matters is while we slept a devil offered to make a pact with the player, he would keep the hellfire weapon (which had magically reappeared) and become a pirate captain with his own ship. the PC accepted, in the morning we found the warlock's ship that we had sunk back floating next to us and that the ex-pirate had done. A h religion check revealed that their are sometime loopholes in such contracts and there were a group that worked on finding them and we pleaded with the ex-pirate to try to get him out of the contract. We made it clear we could not allow him to just go and replace the warlock who had killed thousands probably resulting in the deaths of thousands more but he could not be persuaded. That was the end of the session.
Out of character we (as players) discussed with the player of the ex-pirate. He said we could do what we liked with his character even if we killed him (We found out later he didn't want to play that character anymore so would be fine with him spliiting from the party to become and npc BBEG or being killed). This opened up options that I would never consider in game if we had not had that discussion.
The next session after a bit more failed reasoning we tried to restrain him (I think I cast hold person) but he made the save I can't remember exactly how but he got onto the warlocks ship and it evolved into a fight to the death.
I did watch and RPG horror stories video recently with a cleric that used divine intervention to interrupt and sabotage a warlocks interactions with their patron. It's rarely appreciated.
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Normally i would written this in an already existing post, but i have received too many warnings for necroing old posts so here goes.
In my current campaign, where my pc is wizard 3 (order of scribes)/ cleric 1 (Knowledge/Deneir) who found out that our Charismatic Grave Cleric(supposedly Kelemvor) to be a Warlock revering an unholy being(probably undying, undead or something similar), got him redhanded while practicing a ritual from a grimoire which responded to Detect Magic as strong/otherworldy necromancy, and also somehow to detect evil and good as well anyway, i've been through alot with this Hypocrite and i am seeking ways to confront him and prod him to way of atonement, after my discovery we had a private converisaton where he evaded my most questions, acted like he is in control yet he was shaken, and given his word to me that this will not cause any problems or threat to our party, where i responded "better be, or else..." and our convo was shut due to circumstances... So i am planning to use suggestion on him in combat, offer him my ring of mind shielding and suggest him to cut his telepathical connection with his patron with the ring, my PC is somewhat a walking sage when it comes to Arcane Arts, Religion, History so i'll say him that patrons of eldritch practitioners can not take back powers they granted, thus he can continue leeching his patron's arcane energy with his spells, that he does not need to bend before him... If his saving throw succeeds againts my suggestion spell, i might as well use gift of gab on him as reaction and chant a prayer to Deneir instead or simply replicate the verbal components of a self target spell i have like mage armor... He is not especially wise for a cleric i guess and i am not sure if he has wisdom saving throw proficient, but so far this the best solution i could come up with.
We have a rather strong elven monster slayer with undead allergy, and a elven monk/sorceror with silver dragon anima who makes the calls rather than his own spirit/soul/concious in him in our group so i want to find a solution as covertly as i can, otherwise he'll probably end dead, and that needs to be averted by all means as we are playing ToA, we have already lost 3 members and an npc guide so far and with soulmonger active this kinda sucks. Any suggestions for a peaceful solution (spell suggestions are more welcome as he is not really being cooperative, and i have low charisma which makes thing even more difficult).
Also, what could the patron do at worst? Would he care alot about a lowly warlock like him. (I suspect about 3 entities, as potential patrons for him, Larloch, Aumvor or Vecna, and my instincts tell me the second is the real candidate, while the name was never used in our game, i feel that the grimoire he uses is possibly the Briel's Book of Shadows, While he comes from Daggerford in his youth, he spent alot of time in Baldur's Gate and it's environs for his backstory, and as someone who spent lots of time in libraries Baldur's Gate and Candlekeep i know Briel tried starting magery schools couple of times in those locations...
Anyway i am open to any suggestion on how to proceed, except for talking to party as i am kinda sure they will resort to bloodshed the instant they learn and verify his identity. (sigh good pcs these days...)
inter-party in-character conflict is always difficult to manage. Usually in the Session Zero the DM should present whether or not this kind of PVP spellcasting and such would be allowed in their game. As unsatisfying as it might be to plan something like this out ahead of time, I think your best bet is to talk to your group out of character to see if pursuing this conflict will be a problem for any of the players there... if nothing else, you can figure out exactly what the rules in-game are for someone leaving their warlock patron... it seems to vary wildly from table to table whether or not Warlocks lose their powers when they leave their patron.
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First off, it sounds like your campaign is quite well embedded in the lore for all of this to make sense, so if that's the case then that's pretty cool.
I would avoid any inter-party spellcasting and such, because you're taking away their control (ok if the world, piloted by the DM, does it, not so much for other players). Important things you should do here:
This sort of thing absolutely needs to be moderated through the DM, because it's about building the story and the DM will need to go back & forth between you with more information, which the other player may not know - perhaps the patron overpowers the ring, or perhaps the warlock does want to be free from the patron. The most important thing is that everyone has fun - and springing this plan on another player might be fun, but it probably won't. You knight get a rage-quit out of it from some, whilst others think it's an awesome addition to the story.
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Interparty pvp is allowed, but it's not like we like it, that is why i am looking for a solution other than direct confrontation that can result in vioelence, my pc is quite touchy about violence especially now that the curse of death is around...
I'd say then that your best bet is to look at this as less of a technical challenge in terms of how, mechanically, to decouple your Warlock from their patron and instead look at it as a roleplay challenge to either have as a conversation in-character or to figure out what needs to happen for your character to become comfortable working with them. If you came into this with a group that is overtly acceptable of inter-party PVP and this player deliberately created a character that clashed with the rest of the party to the point that, in-character, he pretended to be a different class, then some form of conflict feels like the point. Why create a character like that if you didn't intend to poke the hornet's nest at some point?
So, with that in mind... I think your Ring of Mind Shielding idea is actually solid, but I'd recommend avoiding casting Suggestion on your fellow party member unless things get dire. If you confront them about it and the Warlock suddenly turns hostile... well, my assumption then is that they created this character because they wanted this kind of PVP to happen at some point, so have fun with it lol
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His character from my point of view having a dilemma, he probably once a devout believer of Kelemvor, yet now that the Curse of Death became rampant his faith is shaken, he obviously became phobic of death which is unsightly for a Kelemvor cleric, but it's not like my character thinks badly of him just because of this as he is afraid of death as well...
About inter party casting and pvp, we do not have such limitations as long as the rp is consistent, we are adult players, so you do not see bullying and childish behaviour for the most part. It is not like my pc is trying to get rid of him, he is worried about his teammate and looking for a way to help him redeem himself. Powerhungry liches and demons are not simply hungry, they are but the agents of hunger, envy and greed whether they are aware or not. Their curiosity and ambitions are usually boundless and their self confidence unfounded(even if they are strong, they almost always arrogant), my PC is well aware of their nature as a bookworm and as someone who had the opportunity to have chats with Volo and within the context of story he even for a brief time, connected to metatext, where he gained his level as cleric(thus expertise in history and religion, while seeing a brief history of realms in live/fast forward mode).
Rage quit thing out of question it seems, warlock is roleplaying quite well, the way his character is shaken, and the way he acts worried as his secret can come into daylight now. DM is simply standing idle, i mean he is not getting between our confrontation and probably kinda enjoying it. Which is ok for us(he deserves to have fun too every now and then). Anyway, i am kind of sure that i can not convince him right away as my character is not the charismatic sort, so i'll probably need help from my arcane arts, my purpose is not to seperate him from his warlock class but to find a way to stop their communication, as i suspect his patron is currently briefing him about a dark quest and slowly pulling him to dark side, i need to find a solution in which he can have his powers as a warlock while ignoring his patron and his quests, like "sorry dude, i kinda tricked you to make the contract unkowingly as i was afraid of death, now that i have the grimoire, it is not like i need you, and you seem to see me as a servant rather than coworker anyway, so you won't be reaching my mind again, -puts on the ring-": this sorta solution is what i need but i lack the persuasiveness to convince him, as the guy used the be the social guy of our group (still is in a way).
Reason i am asking for advice is simple, my pc has 19 int, clearly much more than i do irl, i usually think for days before/between sessions for the course of actions to take to be able to roleplay him effectively, though i am at a point where i need cloud/hive mind sorta thing to come up with a solution...(sigh i won't be playing a int pc for long long time, seems i have forgotten how hard it could be to roleplay extreme intelligence)
Patrons are very powerful they can do basically anything a powerful monster could to a player and there are also some monsters that suggest what happens to a pact breaking warlock like the deathlock and monsters specific to patrons like vecna's nothic. It's also worth noting that while there is no rule saying a patron can take away power if it wants, many dms rule they can and they could also decide on a curse that could do basically anything.
You can always try trading, fighting or hiding your away out of pact obligations as well. Spells like mind blank or maybe nondetection could hide them, a patron may trade for an artifact or other souls if you capture them with something like soul cage and its also possible that a patron holds the pact indirectly for example a minion of there's made it and you can kill that minion to get out.
As he is a cleric of Kelemvor as well, don't you think, repenting and trusting in your faith and deity is the better option? My character kinda thinks or rather feels his deity won't leave him, not to mention the confused bugger looks angelic (with his 18 charisma, sigh...) the guy grew with an undertaker and took on his role when his caretaker was dead, so he kinda seen too many corpses through out his life, but still was alien to the process in which they die, killing and seeing others killed infront of his eyes probably depressed him, weaken his faith and make him fear death, or perhaps i am thinking too much(that is what scholars do tho). His deity heard him in last session as a cleric of Deneir, my pc sensed his presence in the funeral, or at least his influence, yet he is still testing his deity's patience. As a scholar my pc is aware that Kelemvor is not he used to be a few decades ago, colder now for some reason, as a result whole realms' perception to death is changing, many denizens of Faerun are starting to fear death more than they used to, as if Myrkul took the reins again...
Well you can't make that decision for another player or the god but its possible a god might protect him but that's a big if. Its unclear if the god can and it may no be free. It could require effectively making a pact with that god offering service or taking an oath. You could have to sever all ties with the original power which could be mean losing class features. Again its very dm dependent. There's also nothing to say that entity may not still try to punish you even with a god protection you may pay a price and still have some risk just with some added divine protection.
Have you considered praying to Kelemvor for guidance? If Kelemvor is with him then you can potentially seek guidance from them, I imagine that as a god is more powerful than a patron, you could ask whether your plan with the ring would work. This would be a roleplay technique to gain knowledge from the DM about exactly how patron magic works in their world. It might also mean the DM gets to make a quest, EG "the ring will work, but only for so long, you need the artefact of BleBleBle to fully sever the patrons link to their powers", or "this ritual must be completed to achieve what you seek".
It seems to me that if your character is looking to free their friend from the patron and return them to Kelemvor, they may well seek out a temple of Kelemvor to pray for guidance. If you're not feeling that you're in immediate danger, then perhaps keep the secret whilst seeking the answers in the game.
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The solution is for everyone to step out of character and talk it over.
Think about it. You are a person playing a character that seems intent on invalidating the character choice of another person. You're literally trying to tell them how to play their character. You seem very sure that other persons at the table would also be happy to invalidate that person's character choice. To borrow a phrase form Matt Colville, you're all being wangrods. More important than anything in the game is the fact that you are real people who came together to play a game. Figure out a way to do that instead of just falling back on the "that's what my character would do" response.
You are on the same team. That is a basic and fundamental requirement for the game to work as intended. So figure out a way for your characters to justify being on the same team with this guy. Media is littered with tropes of good characters working with less savory characters for the greater good. Pick one.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Dude i do not care how he plays his character, my pc does. So it's not outgame issue, from an outgame perspective i even like his roleplaying of cowardly priest seeking refuge from a dark patron now that he knows his soul is in danger due to curse of death. But whether i like it or not my pc does not care. I do not use my pc as a puppet to satisfy my own ego, i serve the character i create, his personality, backstory, ideals, bonds, flaws dictate how he moves, and i adhere to them.
And, all current characters except mine entered the game after session zero as original characters were wiped out except mine, and we do not really have rules to limit characters to be compatible choices. Anyone can play a character he wants, provided that he can roleplay the character properly, he is roleplaying properly as well, i have no qualms about him or his character, my pc is another issue though...
And team thing does not work in our game our characters are from different temples, different walks of life, been acquinted for a few days, that is all there is to it, it's not like my character owes allegiance to his fellow party members, same goes for other members as well, everyone has their own agenda for being here. The problem is his pc looks like a decent fellow, and he looks lost or at least my pc thinks so with his 19 int 16 wis and highly keen insight, so he is just trying to help a fellow cleric who is slowly but surely straying from the path of his atonement/redemption.
Media? We are not theming our characters after popular stuff, we roll, we look at our dice, we think for a week, write a story including our pcs family, where he lived how he lived etc, and join the game. eg: summary: my character comes from a somewhat wealthy family from Memnon, his father is of Calishite descent and mother has Bedine ancestory. Most people in his family has some arcane aptitude, thus he is sent to guild arcane in memnon, there he got a friend from Calimport who was also a traders family's heir, in their 15's they left the guild and sailed North, as apprentices of a naval wizard, he practiced navigation and cartography. In the mean time, efreeti and djinni masters, Calim and Memnon awaken, his family moved from their homeland to South East Calimshan, without him knowing, on his travels he managed to contact his family(he is in his early 20s now) and learned that they are safe when he was in Baldur's Gate (to visit Candle Keep for some geogrpahic records), here he got acquinted with Syndra Silvermane and a young apprenticer(a fellow pc who died) agreed to go to Chult, as Syndra offered him an incomplete map of Chult yet a masterwork one, he came to port Nyanzaru with this fellow Artificier, a newly freed slave and a ruffian so on.
We do not plan our characters alot ahead too, for example, my character has been sneaking alot, and had to survive in forest for some time, he did it succesfully, he spent more time like a ranger than a cleric or a wizard so i might as well get a ranger level when i level up(so it's not like we are powerplayers who are after the most efficient builds when we are actually playing)
That said, we need no justification for our actions as long as the way we act is consistent with our pcs character/demeanor... And so far everyone is acting somewhat properly. We do not require debates as to how we shall make it work, that is why i started this thread, my character is looking for a solution to make him atone for his sin, and my intelligence is not as high as my pc, thus i am trying to make use of crowd, cloud, community in order to roleplay 19 int better.
The problem with Warlock Patrons is, despite overtly not being Gods (except for the ones that are), which have all kinds of built-in protections to explain why you can't just kill them or otherwise mess with them directly, they're also not really something any of the game's rules really expect players to directly combat. Even when a Patron is something that we know has a stat block in the game. So there's no real rules about what works on them and what doesn't, or how they could retaliate if they were opposed, or even what happens to the Warlock if their Patron no longer supports them.
In that case, then, I think it's just a matter of doing enough to convince the DM that you're investing real, serious resources into this. Whether that's sacrificing a magic item to give to the warlock, in the case of your Ring of Mind Shielding, or if it means figuring out who, exactly, their Patron is, and then researching what its deal is and how you can harm it, or at least shield someone from its influence. I think learning the name of the Patron should be your top priority right now. Once you know that you're just a solid Arcana or Religion check away from knowing whether your plan will work, or if there's more steps you'll have to take before you risk it.
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Both of the things I highlighted are not up to you to decide, they're up to the DM. You have no idea if there's a telepathic connection between patron and warlock, nor what will happen if you do manage to sever the connection
If you are RPing that your character thinks they know these things and are just BSing their way through it, then it's still a tricky PvP situation that you should be avoiding
If, instead, you think you get to decide for another player and the DM how their character works, I would suggest that you don't do that
Also, I have no idea what you think you're trying to accomplish with "simply replicate the verbal components of a self target spell i have like mage armor"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The first rule of the game is it should be fun for everyone. Removing the agency another player has to control their character is very likely not to be fun for them.
I also see no reason why they can not restore themselves with their patron when the spell ends so your solution is very likely to be ineffective even if your assumptions are correct.
The only solution as I can see it is to explain your dilemma to the DM and the warlock player (or maybe the whole group) and come up with a solution that everyone is happy with. Maybe the warlock is happy for suggestion to work, maybe they decide their character will be persuaded, maybe your wizard will keep quiet about it. Maybe the patron will do something that makes the warlock realise just how evil it is and he must break his relationship with it......
The instant my pc opens his mouth about the warlock, there will be bloodshed in group, as our ranger now can cast zone of truth(monster slayer), and his favored enemy is undead(his family is a victim of undead attacks). And not to mention bahamut worshipping ascendant dragon monk/bladesinger with a silver dragon anima in him... I am trying to save the life of this warlock fellow. AntonSirius, ...with mage armor... i was talking about gift of gab spell, to make him forget i casted suggestion on him as well as the party... anyway ia m not think about i decide anything, cool down, my character as freaking cleric is trying to help a fellow cleric who is steadily walking to his doom, through my familiar i'm watching him all the time as he slowly becomes insane, digging his own grave(literally) then making himself a funeral ceremony, then closing the grave...anyway i am asking for suggestions to help, not really asking for criticism, if you have no suggestions why are you in this thread anyway?
Jegpeg, he is quite aware that his Patron is evil. He is shaken, i've sensed his emotion, he has a cold, fair face just like any other descendant of Netheril, yet i've seen the fear in his eyes.
mage armor has a range of touch, not self. Hence my confusion -- you made it sound like you were trying to twist some self spell to work like mage armor, or something, which made no sense
The warlock having an Undead or Undying patron does not make them undead too, so I don't know why you would think the ranger would be immediately hostile to them if the fact that they're a warlock was revealed -- or for that matter, why the monk/wizard would be at all. You're either making assumptions, or leaving big chunks of the campaign history out -- either way it makes it difficult for anyone here to give you what it is you say you want. Plus, if the warlock is acting the way you describe and showing overt signs of madness, what makes you think you're even the only one who's figured it out? Maybe the ranger and monk/wizard already know and don't care, or aren't ready to act on that info yet
The bottom line, for me, is this. If your fellow PLAYER has chosen to play a character that's heading down a path of insanity, the way to help them is not to make character choices for them and strip them of their agency. Don't simply blunder in and try to break their pact; you need to ask the PLAYER what story it is they want to tell, and if you have a role to play in that story. Then you can tailor the actions of your character to fit
Asking the forum how your character can do things to another character without the other character or player's input is generally going to get a bad reaction
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I thought I had made it clear that my suggestion was to talk it though out of character.
I was once in a game where at sea we defeated a warlock who had a hellfire weapon, the warlock was a major threat to the innocents that sailed the sea we had encountererd them before but they escaped. One player was a greedy ex-pirate (who still had ambitions to be a pirate captain) from memory I think we cast the weapon into the sea or something but it appeared in the room of the ex pirate. We had made it clear that we needed to be very caustious dealing with the ship and its contents because of the evil they were connected to though the ex-pirate didn't really see the danger.
What really matters is while we slept a devil offered to make a pact with the player, he would keep the hellfire weapon (which had magically reappeared) and become a pirate captain with his own ship. the PC accepted, in the morning we found the warlock's ship that we had sunk back floating next to us and that the ex-pirate had done. A h religion check revealed that their are sometime loopholes in such contracts and there were a group that worked on finding them and we pleaded with the ex-pirate to try to get him out of the contract. We made it clear we could not allow him to just go and replace the warlock who had killed thousands probably resulting in the deaths of thousands more but he could not be persuaded. That was the end of the session.
Out of character we (as players) discussed with the player of the ex-pirate. He said we could do what we liked with his character even if we killed him (We found out later he didn't want to play that character anymore so would be fine with him spliiting from the party to become and npc BBEG or being killed). This opened up options that I would never consider in game if we had not had that discussion.
The next session after a bit more failed reasoning we tried to restrain him (I think I cast hold person) but he made the save I can't remember exactly how but he got onto the warlocks ship and it evolved into a fight to the death.
I did watch and RPG horror stories video recently with a cleric that used divine intervention to interrupt and sabotage a warlocks interactions with their patron. It's rarely appreciated.