I haven't DM'd in decades but here I am enjoying the return of Spelljammer too much to sit passively by. For several months I've been reading through adventure modules on this site and I think i have the hook I'm looking for. The thing is, now that I've seen the beginnings to a few professional adventures, I'm a little intimidated about my own writing. Of all the things to get hung up on, perhaps the introduction is a small thing. Even so, I don't want to fall into the trap of recruiting an audience rather than players. Dungeon Masters, old and new: how much introductory narration is too much for session 1 or session 0 (or anytime the glint of sunset in the widowed druid's good eye is particularly poignant)?
Context: I am for some reason currently obsessed with shoehorning the opening premise of the 1999 movie Galaxy Quest into a level 1 Lost Mine of Phandelver (and/or Dragons of Ice Spire Peak) transitioning later into Spelljammer: Light of Xaryxis. I haven't decided yet if the players will be told beforehand more than that their character (any class, race, etc) are former actors of a traveling show meeting each other years later. Therefore, the narration could be somewhat of a surprise reveal from the get-go. I'm up to five paragraphs before characters have scheduled speaking (although obviously they will break in as they like) and already worried about the "Matt Mercer Effect" and/or brevity being the soul of yatta yatta yatta. Thanks!
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
I always recommend maximum transparency with the players. It's fine if the story "takes a hard left" for their characters, but players deserve the respect and trust to be informed in advance what the campaign is actually going to be about.
My answer is probably between 25 words and 3 paragraphs, if you're describing a blurb shared on a Discord server, an ad posted on DNDBeyond's forums, or a conversation over pizza.
Adventures like Storm King's Thunder – which delves into details of the giant's Ordning hierarchy right in the beginning, with many paragraphs for the DM to read and integrate – are not the way I think you should do it. A succinct and clear three sentences that tells players / the DM exactly what it's about are far more powerful.
I would use the 3 paragraph option for an intro and then fill in the blanks as part of playing. Give the characters an idea of the world the characters live in, the locale they live in and whatever context they need to start the adventure. Depending on the character backgrounds they may not know very much at all about the world, its politics, nations, significant people or other details that DMs might love but which aren't really relevant to the players in the beginning.
So I would tend to go with 3-5 paragraphs + a map for an intro, less if possible and fitting the context. They shouldn't need any more to start playing.
That's 8 words. I used about that to start TOA when the group didn't know anything about it. Of course, session 0 explored classes and roles, but that was not as much background as it was party composition.
If you need more, great. I usually don't use much more when the fantasy archetype and tropes are already engrained in most players. If you think they need to know why "The Sun King betrayed the angels at the dawn of time," then let them learn that in game. It's more fun.
Players don't really read your background material. Or, if they do, they don't remember. However much there is, stick it on google docs and give them the link.
(If you have things like lists of gods to pick from, they'll browse those, and then forget the rest.)
Really, the background material is for you, so you know how the world behaves when agents of chaos (the PCs) are thrown at it.
I find it works well to tell the players the things they know at the time it becomes relevant.
Also, if it's the game premise thing, the players should know, because they may not be into it. In my current game, which is a homebrew Spelljammer game, the setup was more or less "This is going to be a Spelljammer game. Your characters are taking work on a perfectly normal sailing vessel that needs new crew." The characters had no idea they were off to outer space, but the players had to know.
thanks for the replies so far. just to note, my intent is less of a "here's what I say you've been doing for the last few years, FYI" and more avoiding the characters thinking they must choose one of the characters from the movie to emulate. i've kinda given myself that pitfall to dance around.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
For starters, "Brevity is the soul of wit" is one of the most misquoted Shakespeare quotes. The oft-quoted statement is just a small part of a hundred-or-so line diatribe by a single character; it is, itself, a long-winded joke joke about how long-winded the character is, written by an author who was well known for both brief witticisms AND witticisms which took several pages to come to fruition. That's all to say that there is no right "soul" to wit and the correct answer is "do what you want for your particular narrative."
Generally speaking, think about what kind of tone you want to set for the campaign. Want them to get into the action right away? You will need to set the scene in that opening and give them a reason to engage with whatever action you are setting forth. Want them to start with some roleplaying and getting to know one another? Just set the stage and let them decide how to act upon it. Have new players who need more hand holding? Perhaps something longer to give them a bit of direction. Have players who are..... etc. Every group and every campaign is different, so think about what you want to do and what your players need, and base your decisions around that.
I agree that giving the players a handout of detailed information is useful... not everyone will read it thoroughly (or at least, not anyone in any group I've ever DM'd for), but it's helpful for them to have that info handy.
Once the actual game gets underway... 3 paragraphs is about the most I would go for in terms of introduction. Focus on what's unique about this setting, and any information imemdiately pertinent to what's happening for the characters at the start. After that just feed them information as it becomes relevant. Something I usually do is, if they're near something important or if it's something that makes sense for their background, I'll just tell them outright lore about something relevant... sometimes I ask for a History Check, if only because it's more engaging when a dice roll is involved.
it's occurred to me that i've been overly concerned with not just setting the scene but giving people a proper frame for their conversation. basically, i think i'm doing to myself that thing interrogators supposedly do where if you're quiet then the other person will often pressure themselves into filling the void with talk. maybe, just maybe, i shouldn't plan to torture myself. instead, i think i'm going to opt for a scant paragraph and let the players banter or ask questions as they will.
Have to agree. Make sure the players understand what homebrew options they might have, the basic vibe that you want for the campaign, and a small bit of the world lore so they can better understand any important events happening at this time.
It depends of the campaign and the ammount of information the DM want to introduce. I prefer intro not too long nor too short, so 3-4 paragraphs of text to read (aloud) seem okay. For longer intro, i suggest sharing more in advance to have more time to digest when comes session 1.
I think it depends on how comfy your group is with dnd as a whole. I'm running a campaign that started in Chult, and we had a large discussion (read: I monologued at them mostly) about what Chult is like, the vibe, the types of characters, etc. They'd never played dnd before and had no frame of reference for a lot of things that might've otherwise been glossed over. That campaign is still going strong now, 3-4 years later. When we finish, if we do another, I can probably have them ready to start within 2-3 paragraphs now that they understand more about what to expect and how the 'world' of dnd works.
Players hate infodumps, and however interesting you find your world, they always tend to disengage your players. The best way to convey information about the world is to make it relevant to the characters in the campaign, and actually withhold that information until the players ask about it.
That way, rather than passively being given lore, they feel like they're actively discovering the world around them.
Players hate infodumps, and however interesting you find your world, they always tend to disengage your players.
While true some players hate info dumps and can find them off-putting, I do not think this it is quite fair to make this statement with such absolutism. As indicated by others on this thread, it is probably more accurate to say that most players are ambivalent about info dumps and will either not read them or will skim them and forget most of the details.
As with most things with DMing, the important thing is avoiding basing decisions on absolutist statements and instead playing to one’s particular group. In a group full of folks who are already intimidated by D&D’s large scope? Yep, that’s probably a group that would be discouraged by a lore dump. In a group who is new, but loves the roleplaying aspects? You could probably give them a bit more information. Group that just wants or hack and slash and has been playing for years? They probably would not mind a lore dump, but maybe not worth the DM’s time since they will not read it. Etc.
The main reason I do hand outs is so that the player has a record of stuff rather than having to remember things.
They should never have to say:
"We can always go talk to the fancy pants guy."
"Who?"
"You know, the fancy pants guy that trained me for 3 months on how to cast spells."
DM: "You mean the Grand Wizard Elhardalf who is your 2nd cousin and you know since birth?"
"Yes."
Names of people, items, countries, etc. tend to blur together because while the characters spend ages with them, the players gloss over that offtime in seconds.
The main reason I do hand outs is so that the player has a record of stuff rather than having to remember things.
They should never have to say:
"We can always go talk to the fancy pants guy."
"Who?"
"You know, the fancy pants guy that trained me for 3 months on how to cast spells."
DM: "You mean the Grand Wizard Elhardalf who is your 2nd cousin and you know since birth?"
"Yes."
Names of people, items, countries, etc. tend to blur together because while the characters spend ages with them, the players gloss over that offtime in seconds.
Perhaps, but they will anyway.
Google docs or the like are handy for this sort of thing. Sometimes, your players will even use it to take running notes.
When I'm introducing a campaign, I try to bear in mind how much description my player like, provided I know that. It's all about what your players want for their experience. If I don't know, I'll keep introducing until they tell me that they've heard enough, at which point I'll wrap up.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
A page on how they all came together with maybe a touch of each of their backgrounds. Obviously keeping the secret stuff secret.
Any individual secret information for each player.
All of this is provided in your zero session when they make up their characters.
Almost all of this is provided in the world book you purchased. So just copy those pages and print them out.
Then stress that the stuff should at least be read by the most intelligent characters in the party. They would have the best chance of knowing more than the rest.
After that its up to the characters/players to remember.
I'm not clear if you're talking about what you tell the players before they make characters or what you say in Session 1 when the game actually starts.
Before the game? 2 paragraphs. That's all I want to read when I'm a player and that's all I'd expect someone else to read for my campaign. Players come to make their story, not to hear yours. So I keep my pages of lore to myself.
In Session 1, I like to do a kind of "interactive exposition." I think levels 1 and 2 are super boring anyway, so we do it as a montage. I describe obstacles or challenges that illustrate the setting and prompt the players to describe how they overcome them. No rolling, just establishing character styles and motivations. The players engage because the characters are a part of the story, and by the end of the session they have hit level 3, know lots of things about the campaign world, and are ready to start playing for real.
I haven't DM'd in decades but here I am enjoying the return of Spelljammer too much to sit passively by. For several months I've been reading through adventure modules on this site and I think i have the hook I'm looking for. The thing is, now that I've seen the beginnings to a few professional adventures, I'm a little intimidated about my own writing. Of all the things to get hung up on, perhaps the introduction is a small thing. Even so, I don't want to fall into the trap of recruiting an audience rather than players. Dungeon Masters, old and new: how much introductory narration is too much for session 1 or session 0 (or anytime the glint of sunset in the widowed druid's good eye is particularly poignant)?
Context: I am for some reason currently obsessed with shoehorning the opening premise of the 1999 movie Galaxy Quest into a level 1 Lost Mine of Phandelver (and/or Dragons of Ice Spire Peak) transitioning later into Spelljammer: Light of Xaryxis. I haven't decided yet if the players will be told beforehand more than that their character (any class, race, etc) are former actors of a traveling show meeting each other years later. Therefore, the narration could be somewhat of a surprise reveal from the get-go. I'm up to five paragraphs before characters have scheduled speaking (although obviously they will break in as they like) and already worried about the "Matt Mercer Effect" and/or brevity being the soul of yatta yatta yatta. Thanks!
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I always recommend maximum transparency with the players. It's fine if the story "takes a hard left" for their characters, but players deserve the respect and trust to be informed in advance what the campaign is actually going to be about.
My answer is probably between 25 words and 3 paragraphs, if you're describing a blurb shared on a Discord server, an ad posted on DNDBeyond's forums, or a conversation over pizza.
Adventures like Storm King's Thunder – which delves into details of the giant's Ordning hierarchy right in the beginning, with many paragraphs for the DM to read and integrate – are not the way I think you should do it. A succinct and clear three sentences that tells players / the DM exactly what it's about are far more powerful.
I would use the 3 paragraph option for an intro and then fill in the blanks as part of playing. Give the characters an idea of the world the characters live in, the locale they live in and whatever context they need to start the adventure. Depending on the character backgrounds they may not know very much at all about the world, its politics, nations, significant people or other details that DMs might love but which aren't really relevant to the players in the beginning.
So I would tend to go with 3-5 paragraphs + a map for an intro, less if possible and fitting the context. They shouldn't need any more to start playing.
Sword Coast. Level five. Mostly sandbox. Jungle adventure.
That's 8 words. I used about that to start TOA when the group didn't know anything about it. Of course, session 0 explored classes and roles, but that was not as much background as it was party composition.
If you need more, great. I usually don't use much more when the fantasy archetype and tropes are already engrained in most players. If you think they need to know why "The Sun King betrayed the angels at the dawn of time," then let them learn that in game. It's more fun.
Players don't really read your background material. Or, if they do, they don't remember. However much there is, stick it on google docs and give them the link.
(If you have things like lists of gods to pick from, they'll browse those, and then forget the rest.)
Really, the background material is for you, so you know how the world behaves when agents of chaos (the PCs) are thrown at it.
I find it works well to tell the players the things they know at the time it becomes relevant.
Also, if it's the game premise thing, the players should know, because they may not be into it. In my current game, which is a homebrew Spelljammer game, the setup was more or less "This is going to be a Spelljammer game. Your characters are taking work on a perfectly normal sailing vessel that needs new crew." The characters had no idea they were off to outer space, but the players had to know.
thanks for the replies so far. just to note, my intent is less of a "here's what I say you've been doing for the last few years, FYI" and more avoiding the characters thinking they must choose one of the characters from the movie to emulate. i've kinda given myself that pitfall to dance around.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
For starters, "Brevity is the soul of wit" is one of the most misquoted Shakespeare quotes. The oft-quoted statement is just a small part of a hundred-or-so line diatribe by a single character; it is, itself, a long-winded joke joke about how long-winded the character is, written by an author who was well known for both brief witticisms AND witticisms which took several pages to come to fruition. That's all to say that there is no right "soul" to wit and the correct answer is "do what you want for your particular narrative."
Generally speaking, think about what kind of tone you want to set for the campaign. Want them to get into the action right away? You will need to set the scene in that opening and give them a reason to engage with whatever action you are setting forth. Want them to start with some roleplaying and getting to know one another? Just set the stage and let them decide how to act upon it. Have new players who need more hand holding? Perhaps something longer to give them a bit of direction. Have players who are..... etc. Every group and every campaign is different, so think about what you want to do and what your players need, and base your decisions around that.
Upto 5 pages in a handout.
No more than a couple of minutes of talking.
I agree that giving the players a handout of detailed information is useful... not everyone will read it thoroughly (or at least, not anyone in any group I've ever DM'd for), but it's helpful for them to have that info handy.
Once the actual game gets underway... 3 paragraphs is about the most I would go for in terms of introduction. Focus on what's unique about this setting, and any information imemdiately pertinent to what's happening for the characters at the start. After that just feed them information as it becomes relevant. Something I usually do is, if they're near something important or if it's something that makes sense for their background, I'll just tell them outright lore about something relevant... sometimes I ask for a History Check, if only because it's more engaging when a dice roll is involved.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
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it's occurred to me that i've been overly concerned with not just setting the scene but giving people a proper frame for their conversation. basically, i think i'm doing to myself that thing interrogators supposedly do where if you're quiet then the other person will often pressure themselves into filling the void with talk. maybe, just maybe, i shouldn't plan to torture myself. instead, i think i'm going to opt for a scant paragraph and let the players banter or ask questions as they will.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Have to agree. Make sure the players understand what homebrew options they might have, the basic vibe that you want for the campaign, and a small bit of the world lore so they can better understand any important events happening at this time.
Be Excellent to one another. Rock on dude.
It depends of the campaign and the ammount of information the DM want to introduce. I prefer intro not too long nor too short, so 3-4 paragraphs of text to read (aloud) seem okay. For longer intro, i suggest sharing more in advance to have more time to digest when comes session 1.
I think it depends on how comfy your group is with dnd as a whole. I'm running a campaign that started in Chult, and we had a large discussion (read: I monologued at them mostly) about what Chult is like, the vibe, the types of characters, etc. They'd never played dnd before and had no frame of reference for a lot of things that might've otherwise been glossed over. That campaign is still going strong now, 3-4 years later. When we finish, if we do another, I can probably have them ready to start within 2-3 paragraphs now that they understand more about what to expect and how the 'world' of dnd works.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Players hate infodumps, and however interesting you find your world, they always tend to disengage your players. The best way to convey information about the world is to make it relevant to the characters in the campaign, and actually withhold that information until the players ask about it.
That way, rather than passively being given lore, they feel like they're actively discovering the world around them.
While true some players hate info dumps and can find them off-putting, I do not think this it is quite fair to make this statement with such absolutism. As indicated by others on this thread, it is probably more accurate to say that most players are ambivalent about info dumps and will either not read them or will skim them and forget most of the details.
As with most things with DMing, the important thing is avoiding basing decisions on absolutist statements and instead playing to one’s particular group. In a group full of folks who are already intimidated by D&D’s large scope? Yep, that’s probably a group that would be discouraged by a lore dump. In a group who is new, but loves the roleplaying aspects? You could probably give them a bit more information. Group that just wants or hack and slash and has been playing for years? They probably would not mind a lore dump, but maybe not worth the DM’s time since they will not read it. Etc.
The main reason I do hand outs is so that the player has a record of stuff rather than having to remember things.
They should never have to say:
"We can always go talk to the fancy pants guy."
"Who?"
"You know, the fancy pants guy that trained me for 3 months on how to cast spells."
DM: "You mean the Grand Wizard Elhardalf who is your 2nd cousin and you know since birth?"
"Yes."
Names of people, items, countries, etc. tend to blur together because while the characters spend ages with them, the players gloss over that offtime in seconds.
Perhaps, but they will anyway.
Google docs or the like are handy for this sort of thing. Sometimes, your players will even use it to take running notes.
When I'm introducing a campaign, I try to bear in mind how much description my player like, provided I know that. It's all about what your players want for their experience. If I don't know, I'll keep introducing until they tell me that they've heard enough, at which point I'll wrap up.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
A page or more on the world.
A page or more on the nation.
A page or more on the city/village they are in.
A page on how they all came together with maybe a touch of each of their backgrounds. Obviously keeping the secret stuff secret.
Any individual secret information for each player.
All of this is provided in your zero session when they make up their characters.
Almost all of this is provided in the world book you purchased. So just copy those pages and print them out.
Then stress that the stuff should at least be read by the most intelligent characters in the party. They would have the best chance of knowing more than the rest.
After that its up to the characters/players to remember.
I'm not clear if you're talking about what you tell the players before they make characters or what you say in Session 1 when the game actually starts.
Before the game? 2 paragraphs. That's all I want to read when I'm a player and that's all I'd expect someone else to read for my campaign. Players come to make their story, not to hear yours. So I keep my pages of lore to myself.
In Session 1, I like to do a kind of "interactive exposition." I think levels 1 and 2 are super boring anyway, so we do it as a montage. I describe obstacles or challenges that illustrate the setting and prompt the players to describe how they overcome them. No rolling, just establishing character styles and motivations. The players engage because the characters are a part of the story, and by the end of the session they have hit level 3, know lots of things about the campaign world, and are ready to start playing for real.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm