I have a medium sized D&D group consisting of players ages 8 to 11. During my time as DM, I've noticed that my players tend to kill first, talk later. This tends to be a problem when I create an adventure that hinges upon NPCs. One of my most recent adventures features two NPCs who lost everything when they tried to seize the horde of a dragon. The NPCs also held valuable information about the players' quest. My players murdered the NPCs on sight, and my adventure was ruined. Does anybody know what to do in this situation, I spend hours making adventures for my group, and I don't like seeing them go to waste.
Stop spending hours making adventures for your group. The Murder Hobo is a time honored tradition which they are enjoying. So just worry about setting up encounters that are based on that.
If they ever do get interested in the story aspect, then pull out the adventurers you've written. Use them then. They only go to waste if you throw them away.
1) Perhaps have that first encounter with the NPCs in a very public place i.e tavern, town market, sheriff station etc. If players were to draw there blades/kill they would become wanted and it would ruin their game being captured and possibly trialled/executed.
2) Make it so the meet that it isn't possible to kill. For instance, from a magical portal or vision quest so they couldn't interact directly with the NPCs.
Absolutely get the feeling though when you've made plans that are quickly ruined by a player action, but have to try and remember that it's meant to be their adventure and not some guided tour. Balance is key.
Normally I would say this is just a prime example of a less than ideal player to DM match up. If all your players want is to kill things and you want to tell deep and intricate stories, or any story at all, then you need different players and they need a different DM. All of that would be my advice to a DM with adult players. It gets a little more complicated when your players are ages 8 to 11. You may be the only DM available to them? Trying to twist things around to force them to interact in a way other then just killing everything is not going to work with kids..... if chucking dice and smashing monsters (and everything else) is all they want to do, trying to railroad them into story telling is not going to work. Depending on how mature they are you could have a conversation and explain to them that some NPCs are there to help them but can't if they just kill them. Also if they are slaughtering random NPCs who are just traveling along the same road, I would in short order have whatever law there is in your game arrest them and execute them. Remember they could very well be dnd players for the next 50 or more years. you don't want to teach them that there are no in-game consequences for murder.
If the party has committed egregious crimes have them dealt with, then, either with new characters( if they are executed) or with the same ones if they are not dead do a straight dudgeon crawl. an easy transition into this would be the players are place in a prison camp mine, They fall into a long tunnel leading deep underground, they discover a massive long forgotten underground city/dungeon that is now overrun with monsters, hack and slash time.
I think that it is important for them to know that dnd can be a lot more than just hack and slash, but they may already know that, and are just not interested in anything else.
I’m going to kind of agree with rathkryn. I started playing at around the same age as those players, my friends and I were pretty much interested in doing dungeon crawls, and our idea of role playing was bothering to name our character. This was in 1e days, where that was fairly common, but still. They’re doing what’s fun for them. Of course, it may not be what’s fun for you, but, I’m guessing you’re older, and sometimes you need to let the kids do their thing.
As for actual solutions, have plot details written down, or carved in stone or something, so if the kill all the people, there’s still a bread crumb to follow.
Have a frank conversation where you tell them to stop just killing people. If they do it again, tell them the person they just killed was the only one who knew the bbeg’s secret, and now they can’t possibly defeat him, so their characters all die when the bad guy completes his plan. Usually, I don’t recommend in game consequences for player behavior, but sometimes kids need an object lesson.
Just point them at a dungeon and tell them they need to rescue the people captured and being held there. They get their crawl, and when they see people tied up at the end, they should take the hint they’re not supposed to be killed. Then they have some NPCs they’re a little attached to, and you can use those npcs as something to hang the plot on.
One good piece of advice is that the characters they don't kill are the important ones. Don't pre-assign it - if they kill everyone and kidnap Burbly the Goblin, then Burbly is the one who knows all the information.
Secondly, as others have said, they want a dungeon crawl, not a deep meaningful story. You could try to force it on them, but the fact is that even if you do, when they look back on this campaign they will be thinking of all the times they killed big monsters, not the time that they reintroduced Timmy to his mother.
I would recommend just giving these guys a string of combats. Don't even worry about the plot, just go full Avengers on them - a portal opens in the sky and aliens start attacking. They will enjoy the carnage, and meanwhile you can try to find a second group who will enjoy the intricacies of your plots!
I considered this, but the players are wanted in the only town for miles. They murdered a shapeshifting monster posing as an innocent miner, and they have an army after them.
Also, the problem with just creating a meaningless plot, is the fact that a few of my players enjoy deep plots and try to convince the other players not to murder NPCs. If I take out all the plot, some of my players might get angry, and quit. This would mess up my adventures, because the sensible players are the brains of the operation, and without them, the other players would be easily overrun.
Also, the problem with just creating a meaningless plot, is the fact that a few of my players enjoy deep plots and try to convince the other players not to murder NPCs. If I take out all the plot, some of my players might get angry, and quit. This would mess up my adventures, because the sensible players are the brains of the operation, and without them, the other players would be easily overrun.
This I would suggest cuts to the heart of your problem. It's not your adventure, it's your group's adventure. I've said it other places, I'll add it again here. You build the world as a DM alone. The group (you included) tell the story. This is the heart of collaborative storytelling.
I've actually had a similar situation with three groups playing in the same world setting. Initially, I had felt like I could give them all the same challenges, quest hooks, and opportunities. It took six sessions with my most unpredictable group to realise that they weren't going to engage with my world in the same way as other groups. So, I had to tailor my NPCs, locations and obstacles to that group.
As others have said though being flexible about where information can be found is really important. Here's an example from one of my 'Quest Lines' where the goal is to destroy the newly created Lich that has risen in the region.
Necessary Steps
Discover that the appearence of a lot of undead (zombies, skeletons etc) are a sign of a Lich trying to build their new army.
Discover the identity of the Lich
Discover how to destroy a lich (destroy their phylactery).
Find the location of the Lich
Find the location of their phylactery
Research the ritual to destroy the phylactery
Destroy the Phylactery.
So now we need to consider how players who are on the chaotic end can move through each of these steps.
Discover the Lich Problem
Where I thought they'd find the information: Visiting the local graveyard, interrogating the graveyard keeper, and finding the crypt where a ritual or magic artefact is stored causing the dead to rise as undead thralls of the lich. Then visit the nearest arcane library to discover what type of creature would be able to pull this off.
How to drop the information if the graveyard keeper is killed, or the library destroyed:There's a reasonable chance the players might thing that the graveyard keeper is evil and must die. So the crypt needs to be discoverable. A trail of blood, or maybe an undead thrall is seen in the distance shuffling in the direction of the new crypt...maybe they're seen entering the crypt.
How to drop information I intended to be found in the library: Any number of 'good' villagers, a local patron of the tavern where the party are resting up perhaps a wizard walks in and starts talking to the bartender looking for information in view of the adventurers.
If the players get really chaotic and destroy an entire town or village: The party are met with overwhelming force and are imprisoned. They're told that they must pay for their crimes by tracking down and destroying the lich problem. They're all given a braclet or ring that is cursed and brings on a random effect if they stray too far from the quest (to 'encourage' them to stay on task, but still give the chance to ignore it). The item can't be removed unless or until the quest is done and crimes are paid for.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of how it can all work.
I'll add one additional here - communicate with your players. Let them know that you can see that there is a variety of player styles around the table and part of the job of the player is be part of that team dynamic. If you keep struggling with catering to the variety of different styles you may need to split up the group and have one group for the 'chaotic' personalities, and another for the story driven players. Of course if you take this strategy do make it clear that there is no right or wrong style of player...but different styles can be more or less compatible with each other.
Oh, you can have a meaningful plot, but don't anchor it to PCs and certainly don't make it political - make it a combat plot. Let them fight their way into a dungeon only to find there are cultists there already, so they decide to fight the cultists and track them back to their keep, which is run by a vampire who escapes towards a castle on the horizon, so they fight their way through the jungle to fight their way into the castle to fight the vampire, inadvertently saving the world from the vampire cult. Sprinkle in your plot and lore when it fits, but expect your players to want to fight everything.
It might be that if you satisfy their need to kill everything with monsters, they will leave the NPC's alone more often!
Feel free to make key NPCs invincible. Maybe they are a particularly devoted cleric who is protected by their god, or they stole a potion from a legendary wizard or something. For a group of kids, just directly shutting them down is going to be more effective than introducing consequences, especially if those consequences just serve to make them feel badass.
I have a medium sized D&D group consisting of players ages 8 to 11. During my time as DM, I've noticed that my players tend to kill first, talk later. This tends to be a problem when I create an adventure that hinges upon NPCs. One of my most recent adventures features two NPCs who lost everything when they tried to seize the horde of a dragon. The NPCs also held valuable information about the players' quest. My players murdered the NPCs on sight, and my adventure was ruined. Does anybody know what to do in this situation, I spend hours making adventures for my group, and I don't like seeing them go to waste.
Stop spending hours making adventures for your group. The Murder Hobo is a time honored tradition which they are enjoying. So just worry about setting up encounters that are based on that.
If they ever do get interested in the story aspect, then pull out the adventurers you've written. Use them then. They only go to waste if you throw them away.
A couple of ideas..
1) Perhaps have that first encounter with the NPCs in a very public place i.e tavern, town market, sheriff station etc. If players were to draw there blades/kill they would become wanted and it would ruin their game being captured and possibly trialled/executed.
2) Make it so the meet that it isn't possible to kill. For instance, from a magical portal or vision quest so they couldn't interact directly with the NPCs.
Absolutely get the feeling though when you've made plans that are quickly ruined by a player action, but have to try and remember that it's meant to be their adventure and not some guided tour. Balance is key.
Normally I would say this is just a prime example of a less than ideal player to DM match up. If all your players want is to kill things and you want to tell deep and intricate stories, or any story at all, then you need different players and they need a different DM. All of that would be my advice to a DM with adult players. It gets a little more complicated when your players are ages 8 to 11. You may be the only DM available to them? Trying to twist things around to force them to interact in a way other then just killing everything is not going to work with kids..... if chucking dice and smashing monsters (and everything else) is all they want to do, trying to railroad them into story telling is not going to work. Depending on how mature they are you could have a conversation and explain to them that some NPCs are there to help them but can't if they just kill them. Also if they are slaughtering random NPCs who are just traveling along the same road, I would in short order have whatever law there is in your game arrest them and execute them. Remember they could very well be dnd players for the next 50 or more years. you don't want to teach them that there are no in-game consequences for murder.
If the party has committed egregious crimes have them dealt with, then, either with new characters( if they are executed) or with the same ones if they are not dead do a straight dudgeon crawl. an easy transition into this would be the players are place in a prison camp mine, They fall into a long tunnel leading deep underground, they discover a massive long forgotten underground city/dungeon that is now overrun with monsters, hack and slash time.
I think that it is important for them to know that dnd can be a lot more than just hack and slash, but they may already know that, and are just not interested in anything else.
I’m going to kind of agree with rathkryn. I started playing at around the same age as those players, my friends and I were pretty much interested in doing dungeon crawls, and our idea of role playing was bothering to name our character. This was in 1e days, where that was fairly common, but still. They’re doing what’s fun for them. Of course, it may not be what’s fun for you, but, I’m guessing you’re older, and sometimes you need to let the kids do their thing.
As for actual solutions, have plot details written down, or carved in stone or something, so if the kill all the people, there’s still a bread crumb to follow.
Have a frank conversation where you tell them to stop just killing people. If they do it again, tell them the person they just killed was the only one who knew the bbeg’s secret, and now they can’t possibly defeat him, so their characters all die when the bad guy completes his plan. Usually, I don’t recommend in game consequences for player behavior, but sometimes kids need an object lesson.
Just point them at a dungeon and tell them they need to rescue the people captured and being held there. They get their crawl, and when they see people tied up at the end, they should take the hint they’re not supposed to be killed. Then they have some NPCs they’re a little attached to, and you can use those npcs as something to hang the plot on.
One good piece of advice is that the characters they don't kill are the important ones. Don't pre-assign it - if they kill everyone and kidnap Burbly the Goblin, then Burbly is the one who knows all the information.
Secondly, as others have said, they want a dungeon crawl, not a deep meaningful story. You could try to force it on them, but the fact is that even if you do, when they look back on this campaign they will be thinking of all the times they killed big monsters, not the time that they reintroduced Timmy to his mother.
I would recommend just giving these guys a string of combats. Don't even worry about the plot, just go full Avengers on them - a portal opens in the sky and aliens start attacking. They will enjoy the carnage, and meanwhile you can try to find a second group who will enjoy the intricacies of your plots!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I considered this, but the players are wanted in the only town for miles. They murdered a shapeshifting monster posing as an innocent miner, and they have an army after them.
Also, the problem with just creating a meaningless plot, is the fact that a few of my players enjoy deep plots and try to convince the other players not to murder NPCs. If I take out all the plot, some of my players might get angry, and quit. This would mess up my adventures, because the sensible players are the brains of the operation, and without them, the other players would be easily overrun.
This I would suggest cuts to the heart of your problem. It's not your adventure, it's your group's adventure. I've said it other places, I'll add it again here. You build the world as a DM alone. The group (you included) tell the story. This is the heart of collaborative storytelling.
I've actually had a similar situation with three groups playing in the same world setting. Initially, I had felt like I could give them all the same challenges, quest hooks, and opportunities. It took six sessions with my most unpredictable group to realise that they weren't going to engage with my world in the same way as other groups. So, I had to tailor my NPCs, locations and obstacles to that group.
As others have said though being flexible about where information can be found is really important. Here's an example from one of my 'Quest Lines' where the goal is to destroy the newly created Lich that has risen in the region.
So now we need to consider how players who are on the chaotic end can move through each of these steps.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of how it can all work.
I'll add one additional here - communicate with your players. Let them know that you can see that there is a variety of player styles around the table and part of the job of the player is be part of that team dynamic. If you keep struggling with catering to the variety of different styles you may need to split up the group and have one group for the 'chaotic' personalities, and another for the story driven players. Of course if you take this strategy do make it clear that there is no right or wrong style of player...but different styles can be more or less compatible with each other.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Oh, you can have a meaningful plot, but don't anchor it to PCs and certainly don't make it political - make it a combat plot. Let them fight their way into a dungeon only to find there are cultists there already, so they decide to fight the cultists and track them back to their keep, which is run by a vampire who escapes towards a castle on the horizon, so they fight their way through the jungle to fight their way into the castle to fight the vampire, inadvertently saving the world from the vampire cult. Sprinkle in your plot and lore when it fits, but expect your players to want to fight everything.
It might be that if you satisfy their need to kill everything with monsters, they will leave the NPC's alone more often!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I'll try it my next session (I have a session every week on Wednesday) and tell you all how your ideas fitted in. 🤞🙏
The session was great! Thanks!
Feel free to make key NPCs invincible. Maybe they are a particularly devoted cleric who is protected by their god, or they stole a potion from a legendary wizard or something. For a group of kids, just directly shutting them down is going to be more effective than introducing consequences, especially if those consequences just serve to make them feel badass.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm