Hey guys, I'm looking for tips for the following: My group befriended a Blue Guard Drake by saving him from a rather abusive keeper. Though they're not as dumb as animals, they're not very intelligent so I'm going to allow them to train it as somewhat of a companion.
Now, how would you recommend running with this? Basically if I look at the Xanathar's Guide to Everything encounter tables, a CR 2 monster is basically the equivalent to a 5th/6th/7th level character. So for now I'm thinking about running it basically as that; a character that is equal level to the party until they get to lvl 8 (they're lvl 5 at the moment).
But after that, how would you handle it? Would you calculate "average level" and base the encounters on that? Or calculate it differently? I'm concerned mostly about the combat encounters and how to use the tables in Xanathar's Guide to Everything for making them.
Are you going to treat it's actions and combat abilities off of the companion from the Beast Master Ranger or are you going to treat it as a separate entity with it's own full set of actions per turn?
If you treat it like an animal companion per the Beast Master Ranger, then I'd add half it's level to the calculations due to the reduced influence it has on combat. If you treat it as an individual component to the team, then add it's level equivalent to the calculations. I'd say 6th level at first and adjust from there if you go with the later approach.
Are you going to treat it's actions and combat abilities off of the companion from the Beast Master Ranger or are you going to treat it as a separate entity with it's own full set of actions per turn?
If you treat it like an animal companion per the Beast Master Ranger, then I'd add half it's level to the calculations due to the reduced influence it has on combat. If you treat it as an individual component to the team, then add it's level equivalent to the calculations. I'd say 6th level at first and adjust from there if you go with the later approach.
It will act as a separate entity, own actions and own "decisions". Though they may exert some control over it with the appropriate skills checks. I try to portray him with the intelligence of a toddler, so he is controllable but not fully.
As of now he is not yet trained, so i fully run his actions and they have disadvantage on their handle animal checks (since it's a dragon and not a beast) to basically persuade him to keep hanging around. Since they are in a big city this is somewhat complicated but we're having a blast XD
At best, for now at least, I'd treat the drake as just a sort of NPC monster that roll initiative, defends itself on its turn, and does nothing else unless the controlling party member uses a bonus action on their turn to give it an order or try to convince it to take a course of action.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I'd say treat it as a character with a level equal to its hit dice. Once the PCs catch up to it you can give it more hit dice to level it with party along with an increase in CR and ASI every 3 HD or don't and let it risk dying.
Yeah, my current thought is that the longer it remains a part of the group it will become more and more independant and controlled. Now, they'll need to use their action to steer the drake into the direction they want (like "Attack those enemies" or "Run away with us"), requiring Charisma(Handle Animal) checks with disadvantage if it goes against his nature.
In the next phase they'll lose the disadvantage but still require a full action in order to control it. After that they'll use their bonus action and lastly it will be fully trained and can be controlled verbally without any action.
As of now I'm not intending on levelling the drake up; I think that the moment where their adventures simply become too dangerous for their friend to tag along and they decide to leave him somewhere safe or release him can be an interesting dramatic moment, or even worse/better; the moment where they didn't keep him safe and he actually gets hurt and dies.
So right now I have 5 level 5 characters (one of which is on hiatus). For encounter building, would you say that I'd simply design encounters for 6 lvl 5 characters using the XGtE rules, up until they are lvl 7. But after they've levelled up to 8+, I'm thinking on not letting it count since its contribution will be much less significant. Or would you guys say that's on a higher level than level 8?
I'd say it's level 7. And for any future RP, remember that drakes are an unnatural existence that do not exist in the wild and cannot reproduce.
Yeah that would make sense; it has 7 HD and a 7th level character also has a 1:1 ratio with a CR 2 creature.
I know they can't reproduce. I think I'll even go so far as to say they probably don't even have reproductive organs (should that EVER come up :P) One of the characters already rolled to see if they could identify what it was exactly, but rolled too low. The drakes were being transported from a desert area (where Blue Dragons live) to the city they're now in, so there's a big mystery to be solved there :) Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
At lvl 3 a bear totem barbarian in my group knocked out a kruthik hatchling. Captured it and wants to train it.
The way I handle it is using the 4e skill challenge mechanic over a longer period of in-game days. Various checks to ensure the creature gets fed well, taken care of properly and shifting its alignment to be more favorable or not. If they treat it badly, as in leaving it in a small cage at the back of a wagon and only feeding it grapes, might just as well traumatize the creature. Having the skill challenge also allows multiple party members to try and win over the animal. Allowing the creature to be more favorable towards one play instead of another.
As for everything else the creature will have their own mind and will. They have their own actions and depending on events might not even listen to what the players want. However if the skill challenges go well they can "domesticate" the creature enough so that it would bond with them. At the latter stage I wouldn't have my players use an action to make the kruthik do as they want. A simple short verbal command would suffice and that can be said as a free action. If they try to command it as its not domesticated the creature does whatever the hell it wants to do. Including running away if that is a thing.
The kruthik will go from hatchling to youngling -> adult -> hive lord. For that I just use the druids wildshape to determine the CR the creature could be at any given level. If its in line with a level up from hatchling to youngling then it "evolves". Once it reaches Hive Lord it won't grow and level up anymore. Then its up to the players how they deal with that.
----
Same with the cleric buying 1-2 german shephard dogs. They're the level that they're at and won't level up either.
----
If those players have sufficient in character roleplay motivation...I might be lenient enough to open up/create a Feat that gives them the same as the ranger Beastmaster.
If the companion is powerful enough to meaningfully affect combat then make sure you give it a share of the XP. If the players see a share of their XP dissapear then they might not be so keen on the companion...
If the companion is powerful enough to meaningfully affect combat then make sure you give it a share of the XP. If the players see a share of their XP dissapear then they might not be so keen on the companion...
Yeah this makes sense; however the difficulty for combat will be greater too, so that should level things out.
I don't think you should penalize the players for making an RP decision. It'll only promote more min-maxing. Just create encounters as you usually would, but throw in 1 additional enemy or so to balance out the encounter. Eventually the companion will be weaker and hardly add to it other then a bit more dps. Which can be offset by giving opponents a little bit more hp.
I don't think you should penalize the players for making an RP decision. It'll only promote more min-maxing. Just create encounters as you usually would, but throw in 1 additional enemy or so to balance out the encounter. Eventually the companion will be weaker and hardly add to it other then a bit more dps. Which can be offset by giving opponents a little bit more hp.
yeah that's what I'm thinking as well. I'm going to count the drake as a character in the design phase already, so the party will meet with more difficult encounters, so the XP yield will be the same. I simply count them as a party of their size +1 until the drake is no longer a real influence on the combat; for both difficulty of the encounters (ie XP budget). Where first they would meet 4 enemies, they'll now meet 5, keeping the net Xp the same
Does the party actually need an NPC to bolster their combat ability? If so, the NPC could continue under the control of one of the PC's subject to your oversight. Aside from the XP issue (which others have commented on) the level of the NPC is greatly over-powered to fit the guidelines for a henchman which is a problem in itself. Regardless, they will have their own personality, flaws, motivations etc. that might very well conflict with the party's sense of morals or desired behaviours (that's a correct Canadian spelling by the way). IMO, you should not allow the party to treat this NPC as an automaton that obeys every order in combat and then recedes into the background when its convenient. Limited intelligence <> lap dog. That's where your oversight comes in. Also, since the NPC is more powerful than the party members at the moment there are potential vulnerabilities to be exploited. If the NPC were to be charmed or otherwise controlled for example, that could be a serious problem. The players might not want to have the NPC around very long after that happens a few times. The NPC, dim as they are, may come to realize if the party is simply sending him to the front to soak up damage time and again and may come to resent it and start to disobey. There are also other tasks that might be used to encourage the NPC to be side-lined and still be useful. For example, if their camp is routinely attacked while they are in the dungeon the party may realize the benefits of leaving the NPC behind as a guard. The NPC may have been planted (all along) or, easily duped into carrying a gifted item that allows the party to be tracked by their enemies. The party may find that their NPC is not allowed into certain towns, venues or jurisdictions. The party may face discrimination, be highly recognizable, find that their NPC is accused of a crime (whether true or falsely). Perhaps after a time, the party encounters a situation in which the NPC *wants to leave - to help/rejoin their own kind, to find a mate etc.
Does the party actually need an NPC to bolster their combat ability? If so, the NPC could continue under the control of one of the PC's subject to your oversight. Aside from the XP issue (which others have commented on) the level of the NPC is greatly over-powered to fit the guidelines for a henchman which is a problem in itself. Regardless, they will have their own personality, flaws, motivations etc. that might very well conflict with the party's sense of morals or desired behaviours (that's a correct Canadian spelling by the way). IMO, you should not allow the party to treat this NPC as an automaton that obeys every order in combat and then recedes into the background when its convenient. Limited intelligence <> lap dog. That's where your oversight comes in. Also, since the NPC is more powerful than the party members at the moment there are potential vulnerabilities to be exploited. If the NPC were to be charmed or otherwise controlled for example, that could be a serious problem. The players might not want to have the NPC around very long after that happens a few times. The NPC, dim as they are, may come to realize if the party is simply sending him to the front to soak up damage time and again and may come to resent it and start to disobey. There are also other tasks that might be used to encourage the NPC to be side-lined and still be useful. For example, if their camp is routinely attacked while they are in the dungeon the party may realize the benefits of leaving the NPC behind as a guard. The NPC may have been planted (all along) or, easily duped into carrying a gifted item that allows the party to be tracked by their enemies. The party may find that their NPC is not allowed into certain towns, venues or jurisdictions. The party may face discrimination, be highly recognizable, find that their NPC is accused of a crime (whether true or falsely). Perhaps after a time, the party encounters a situation in which the NPC *wants to leave - to help/rejoin their own kind, to find a mate etc.
Thank you so much, there's a lot of great advice in here. To answer your questions:
No, they don't need it, but they understand that it'll be helpful. As of now it's about the same power level (maybe a bit higher health wise, but not so much damage output wise. Party consists of a paladin, rogue, fighter and sorcerer atm). And it will only get weaker, I'm not going to give it character levels. If they treat it as an automaton they will have more difficulty controlling it, or it might even turn hostile. Though they do have a Dragonborn that can speak with it, so that will help them persuade it to act against its nature. I've already made sure that they know that the Drake is not always welcome; being in a big city doesn't help them in that regard. I love the ideas in general though, you've really thought this through, thanks :)
Hey guys, I'm looking for tips for the following: My group befriended a Blue Guard Drake by saving him from a rather abusive keeper. Though they're not as dumb as animals, they're not very intelligent so I'm going to allow them to train it as somewhat of a companion.
Now, how would you recommend running with this? Basically if I look at the Xanathar's Guide to Everything encounter tables, a CR 2 monster is basically the equivalent to a 5th/6th/7th level character. So for now I'm thinking about running it basically as that; a character that is equal level to the party until they get to lvl 8 (they're lvl 5 at the moment).
But after that, how would you handle it? Would you calculate "average level" and base the encounters on that? Or calculate it differently? I'm concerned mostly about the combat encounters and how to use the tables in Xanathar's Guide to Everything for making them.
Thanks in advance!
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Well, a couple questions to start with:
Are you going to treat it's actions and combat abilities off of the companion from the Beast Master Ranger or are you going to treat it as a separate entity with it's own full set of actions per turn?
If you treat it like an animal companion per the Beast Master Ranger, then I'd add half it's level to the calculations due to the reduced influence it has on combat. If you treat it as an individual component to the team, then add it's level equivalent to the calculations. I'd say 6th level at first and adjust from there if you go with the later approach.
It will act as a separate entity, own actions and own "decisions". Though they may exert some control over it with the appropriate skills checks. I try to portray him with the intelligence of a toddler, so he is controllable but not fully.
As of now he is not yet trained, so i fully run his actions and they have disadvantage on their handle animal checks (since it's a dragon and not a beast) to basically persuade him to keep hanging around. Since they are in a big city this is somewhat complicated but we're having a blast XD
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
At best, for now at least, I'd treat the drake as just a sort of NPC monster that roll initiative, defends itself on its turn, and does nothing else unless the controlling party member uses a bonus action on their turn to give it an order or try to convince it to take a course of action.
I'd say treat it as a character with a level equal to its hit dice. Once the PCs catch up to it you can give it more hit dice to level it with party along with an increase in CR and ASI every 3 HD or don't and let it risk dying.
Yeah, my current thought is that the longer it remains a part of the group it will become more and more independant and controlled. Now, they'll need to use their action to steer the drake into the direction they want (like "Attack those enemies" or "Run away with us"), requiring Charisma(Handle Animal) checks with disadvantage if it goes against his nature.
In the next phase they'll lose the disadvantage but still require a full action in order to control it. After that they'll use their bonus action and lastly it will be fully trained and can be controlled verbally without any action.
As of now I'm not intending on levelling the drake up; I think that the moment where their adventures simply become too dangerous for their friend to tag along and they decide to leave him somewhere safe or release him can be an interesting dramatic moment, or even worse/better; the moment where they didn't keep him safe and he actually gets hurt and dies.
So right now I have 5 level 5 characters (one of which is on hiatus). For encounter building, would you say that I'd simply design encounters for 6 lvl 5 characters using the XGtE rules, up until they are lvl 7. But after they've levelled up to 8+, I'm thinking on not letting it count since its contribution will be much less significant. Or would you guys say that's on a higher level than level 8?
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
I'd say it's level 7. And for any future RP, remember that drakes are an unnatural existence that do not exist in the wild and cannot reproduce.
Yeah that would make sense; it has 7 HD and a 7th level character also has a 1:1 ratio with a CR 2 creature.
I know they can't reproduce. I think I'll even go so far as to say they probably don't even have reproductive organs (should that EVER come up :P) One of the characters already rolled to see if they could identify what it was exactly, but rolled too low. The drakes were being transported from a desert area (where Blue Dragons live) to the city they're now in, so there's a big mystery to be solved there :) Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
At lvl 3 a bear totem barbarian in my group knocked out a kruthik hatchling. Captured it and wants to train it.
The way I handle it is using the 4e skill challenge mechanic over a longer period of in-game days. Various checks to ensure the creature gets fed well, taken care of properly and shifting its alignment to be more favorable or not. If they treat it badly, as in leaving it in a small cage at the back of a wagon and only feeding it grapes, might just as well traumatize the creature. Having the skill challenge also allows multiple party members to try and win over the animal. Allowing the creature to be more favorable towards one play instead of another.
As for everything else the creature will have their own mind and will. They have their own actions and depending on events might not even listen to what the players want. However if the skill challenges go well they can "domesticate" the creature enough so that it would bond with them. At the latter stage I wouldn't have my players use an action to make the kruthik do as they want. A simple short verbal command would suffice and that can be said as a free action. If they try to command it as its not domesticated the creature does whatever the hell it wants to do. Including running away if that is a thing.
The kruthik will go from hatchling to youngling -> adult -> hive lord. For that I just use the druids wildshape to determine the CR the creature could be at any given level. If its in line with a level up from hatchling to youngling then it "evolves". Once it reaches Hive Lord it won't grow and level up anymore. Then its up to the players how they deal with that.
----
Same with the cleric buying 1-2 german shephard dogs. They're the level that they're at and won't level up either.
----
If those players have sufficient in character roleplay motivation...I might be lenient enough to open up/create a Feat that gives them the same as the ranger Beastmaster.
If the companion is powerful enough to meaningfully affect combat then make sure you give it a share of the XP. If the players see a share of their XP dissapear then they might not be so keen on the companion...
Yeah this makes sense; however the difficulty for combat will be greater too, so that should level things out.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
I don't think you should penalize the players for making an RP decision. It'll only promote more min-maxing. Just create encounters as you usually would, but throw in 1 additional enemy or so to balance out the encounter. Eventually the companion will be weaker and hardly add to it other then a bit more dps. Which can be offset by giving opponents a little bit more hp.
yeah that's what I'm thinking as well. I'm going to count the drake as a character in the design phase already, so the party will meet with more difficult encounters, so the XP yield will be the same. I simply count them as a party of their size +1 until the drake is no longer a real influence on the combat; for both difficulty of the encounters (ie XP budget). Where first they would meet 4 enemies, they'll now meet 5, keeping the net Xp the same
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Reasonable enough. I don't use the xp budget system to begin with so never have too worry about it.
Does the party actually need an NPC to bolster their combat ability? If so, the NPC could continue under the control of one of the PC's subject to your oversight. Aside from the XP issue (which others have commented on) the level of the NPC is greatly over-powered to fit the guidelines for a henchman which is a problem in itself. Regardless, they will have their own personality, flaws, motivations etc. that might very well conflict with the party's sense of morals or desired behaviours (that's a correct Canadian spelling by the way). IMO, you should not allow the party to treat this NPC as an automaton that obeys every order in combat and then recedes into the background when its convenient. Limited intelligence <> lap dog. That's where your oversight comes in. Also, since the NPC is more powerful than the party members at the moment there are potential vulnerabilities to be exploited. If the NPC were to be charmed or otherwise controlled for example, that could be a serious problem. The players might not want to have the NPC around very long after that happens a few times. The NPC, dim as they are, may come to realize if the party is simply sending him to the front to soak up damage time and again and may come to resent it and start to disobey. There are also other tasks that might be used to encourage the NPC to be side-lined and still be useful. For example, if their camp is routinely attacked while they are in the dungeon the party may realize the benefits of leaving the NPC behind as a guard. The NPC may have been planted (all along) or, easily duped into carrying a gifted item that allows the party to be tracked by their enemies. The party may find that their NPC is not allowed into certain towns, venues or jurisdictions. The party may face discrimination, be highly recognizable, find that their NPC is accused of a crime (whether true or falsely). Perhaps after a time, the party encounters a situation in which the NPC *wants to leave - to help/rejoin their own kind, to find a mate etc.
Thank you so much, there's a lot of great advice in here. To answer your questions:
No, they don't need it, but they understand that it'll be helpful. As of now it's about the same power level (maybe a bit higher health wise, but not so much damage output wise. Party consists of a paladin, rogue, fighter and sorcerer atm). And it will only get weaker, I'm not going to give it character levels. If they treat it as an automaton they will have more difficulty controlling it, or it might even turn hostile. Though they do have a Dragonborn that can speak with it, so that will help them persuade it to act against its nature. I've already made sure that they know that the Drake is not always welcome; being in a big city doesn't help them in that regard. I love the ideas in general though, you've really thought this through, thanks :)
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature