next week I start a new campaign where an experienced player chose to make dexterity his dump stat ..... this gives him a -2 to dex ....
despite me recommending against this .... he choose it anyway..... this brings up the question.... what happens if he rolls a nat 1 on initiative? This would give a negative number..... does anyone have any experience with players getting negative numbers on skill checks?
despite me recommending against this .... he choose it anyway..... this brings up the question....
Not sure why you'd want to do that... he'd have to put that (6? 7?) somewhere. Without knowing more about his race and class we don't have any context. But since he's clearly not a Ranger, Monk, Rogue, Dex Figther, or Dex Barb, what would be so catastrophic about putting (presumably) his worst stat roll into Dex?
Of the things tied to Dex, you've got AoE spell saves, Athletics, and Initiative. That's it. AoE spell saves obviously will come back to haunt him (that's your job as DM, within reason). Athletics is a more uncommon check to roll for, but that's going to depend on what challenges you throw at the party. Initiative can hurt a lot, but sometimes going later in the turn order is a good thing. Perhaps this was even an intentional decision for him -- maybe he flat out wants to go later in combat.
As to your question, I don't think "negative Initiative" is an issue. If he does roll a 1, he'd have a -1, which means that he'd be the last in turn order. Being less than zero isn't particularly significant, unless someone else happened to get a result of zero.
The only issue it could create is if you're using an electronic/online initiative tracker that can't handle negative numbers.
As for your question on negative numbers on skill checks, they are either pass/fail, so getting a -1 on a DC 10 skill check is no different than getting a 9.
Yep, if you have a -1 on initiative, you go last unless someone else has lower initiative. Have a fighter in my group that has a -1 initiative, but he has a magic item that gives him advantage on initiative rolls. Depending on what role you play in combat, a lower initiative might actually be better. Since you can only hold an action and not your entire turn, someone who wants to do something situational like healing and support spells actually benefits from going last because they can allow the situation to develop and respond to it rather than having to predict what might be useful on the first turn. Still, it's not going to happen every time, as they can still get as high as a 19.
I'd just say that he goes last no matter what. In my very first initiative roll when I started playing Dnd, my warlock had a -1 on her dexterity score. I rolled a nat 1, giving me an initiative of 0.
Does the negative dexterity provide the character natural immobility or non-functioning limbs?
-Just curious-
Well, the Dex score associated with a -1 modifier is either an 8 or a 9, so it probably just means they're a total nerd and don't do the sports. Not that they have any form of disability. I'd say a 6 or 7 is probably more in line with an asthmatic or some other such that is a limiter on how long/hard they can do whatever. I think you'd need to go below that to get into the nasty conditions or amputees.
I dm for a schoolgroup and thus get a lot of new players whom I often have to remind how to roll for whatever. I often look over their character sheets to make sure that they have their stats inputted properly (like in at all and in how they want to play their character), so that their spells exist, and so that they level up when they need to and do it properly. I asked my players to roll initiative, something I'd had them do previously in the campaign so i thought there'd be no problems but while i was getting numbers called out my skilled and veteran player sat stumped. She'd rolled a nat 1 and because she has a "-1" (i'd neglected to check over her character sheet because she knows what she's doing) she'd gotten zero. Part of me wants to give her a silly penalty for critical failing the initiative. What do you think i should do?
I once downloaded a quick encounter template somewhere that has lines for each initiative number you can roll. It started at 25 and went down to -5, I'm guessing because +5 is the highest you can go with normal ASI progression. Just place the player wherever he ended up - there is no failing initiative anyways. He'll generally go last if rolling 1's but who knows, maybe that gelatinous cube(3 dex so -4) rolls even lower?
I dm for a schoolgroup and thus get a lot of new players whom I often have to remind how to roll for whatever. I often look over their character sheets to make sure that they have their stats inputted properly (like in at all and in how they want to play their character), so that their spells exist, and so that they level up when they need to and do it properly. I asked my players to roll initiative, something I'd had them do previously in the campaign so i thought there'd be no problems but while i was getting numbers called out my skilled and veteran player sat stumped. She'd rolled a nat 1 and because she has a "-1" (i'd neglected to check over her character sheet because she knows what she's doing) she'd gotten zero. Part of me wants to give her a silly penalty for critical failing the initiative. What do you think i should do?
Have her go on initiative zero since that is what she rolled. There is absolutely no significance to skill check numbers below 1 or above 20. Rolling a natural 1 or a natural 20 does NOTHING for skill/ability checks or saving throws. The only consequence to a natural 1 or 20 in 5e is on the to hit roll. A 1 is a miss and a 20 is a critical hit.
The range of possible results from rolling the d20 on a skill check probably ranges from -4 to +40 or so. The only reason a negative number looks odd is because they are relatively uncommon. A character with strength 8 can roll a zero on a strength saving throw or an athletics check if they aren't proficient. There is no reason to do something "special" just because you don't see a character roll the number very often. Do you do something weird when the dex fighter with 20 dex rolls a 6 for initiative? (they rolled a 1 too ...).
In this case, rolling a 1 for initiative happens 5% of the time. That is pretty frequent. There is no reason to penalize a player for rolling a 1.
I have seen a lot of characters with an 8 dexterity - mostly paladins or heavy armor fighters who dump dex. Their initiative suffers a bit but it has no impact on their AC since they are wearing heavy armor.
There is absolutely no significance to skill check numbers below 1 or above 20.
That’s not entirely true. Since natural 1s and 20s only matter on Attack rolls, rolling high and having a positive modifier that would bring the total above 20 definitely matters as that’s the only way to hit DCs above 20. If you end up with a 22 for your Initiative, then you go at count 22, it doesn’t get dropped to 20.
There is absolutely no significance to skill check numbers below 1 or above 20.
That’s not entirely true. Since natural 1s and 20s only matter on Attack rolls, rolling high and having a positive modifier that would bring the total above 20 definitely matters as that’s the only way to hit DCs above 20. If you end up with a 22 for your Initiative, then you go at count 22, it doesn’t get dropped to 20.
Yep - I wasn't being clear. I should have said that there isn't anything special about numbers below 1 or above 20 - they are just numbers below 1 or above 20. They don't automatically succeed or fail. Very high or low numbers don't have any inherent narrative associated with them.
Yes, a character rolling 22 on initiative has a high value, they may go first unless there was a higher roll but it doesn't have any particular additional significance just because the result is below 1 or above 20. The character doesn't succeed or fail spectacularly just because of the number rolled. It is quite possible to roll a 22 and still fail a skill check if the DC is higher. In addition it is possible that rolling a 1 will still pass a DC 10 skill check, especially in cases with expertise.
Only to hit rolls have additional significance applied in the rules for the cases of 1 and 20 being rolled. A 1 automatically misses, a 20 automatically hits and in addition is considered a critical hit. A champion fighter with an expanded crit range can still miss if they roll a 19 (even though it would be a critical hit) but not if they roll a 20.
next week I start a new campaign where an experienced player chose to make dexterity his dump stat ..... this gives him a -2 to dex ....
despite me recommending against this .... he choose it anyway..... this brings up the question.... what happens if he rolls a nat 1 on initiative? This would give a negative number..... does anyone have any experience with players getting negative numbers on skill checks?
Not sure why you'd want to do that... he'd have to put that (6? 7?) somewhere. Without knowing more about his race and class we don't have any context. But since he's clearly not a Ranger, Monk, Rogue, Dex Figther, or Dex Barb, what would be so catastrophic about putting (presumably) his worst stat roll into Dex?
Of the things tied to Dex, you've got AoE spell saves, Athletics, and Initiative. That's it. AoE spell saves obviously will come back to haunt him (that's your job as DM, within reason). Athletics is a more uncommon check to roll for, but that's going to depend on what challenges you throw at the party. Initiative can hurt a lot, but sometimes going later in the turn order is a good thing. Perhaps this was even an intentional decision for him -- maybe he flat out wants to go later in combat.
As to your question, I don't think "negative Initiative" is an issue. If he does roll a 1, he'd have a -1, which means that he'd be the last in turn order. Being less than zero isn't particularly significant, unless someone else happened to get a result of zero.
The only issue it could create is if you're using an electronic/online initiative tracker that can't handle negative numbers.
As for your question on negative numbers on skill checks, they are either pass/fail, so getting a -1 on a DC 10 skill check is no different than getting a 9.
Um, given that DEX is also connected to AC, can it cause a reduction there?
Edit-corrected by Stormknight...negative AC would apply to light/medium armor and shield only, not heavy.
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D&D Beyond FoundersJust a quick note on low DEX and heavy armor, that may be relevant to the discussion:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#HeavyArmor
A PC with a -2 dex penalty wearing full plate would have a 18 AC, the same as a PC with a +4 dex bonus.
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Thanks for confirming that one, thought I'd got it wrong for all this time and started to doubt myself without my books to hand to double check!
Yep, if you have a -1 on initiative, you go last unless someone else has lower initiative. Have a fighter in my group that has a -1 initiative, but he has a magic item that gives him advantage on initiative rolls. Depending on what role you play in combat, a lower initiative might actually be better. Since you can only hold an action and not your entire turn, someone who wants to do something situational like healing and support spells actually benefits from going last because they can allow the situation to develop and respond to it rather than having to predict what might be useful on the first turn. Still, it's not going to happen every time, as they can still get as high as a 19.
I'd just say that he goes last no matter what. In my very first initiative roll when I started playing Dnd, my warlock had a -1 on her dexterity score. I rolled a nat 1, giving me an initiative of 0.
Does the negative dexterity provide the character natural immobility or non-functioning limbs?
-Just curious-
Well, the Dex score associated with a -1 modifier is either an 8 or a 9, so it probably just means they're a total nerd and don't do the sports. Not that they have any form of disability. I'd say a 6 or 7 is probably more in line with an asthmatic or some other such that is a limiter on how long/hard they can do whatever. I think you'd need to go below that to get into the nasty conditions or amputees.
I dm for a schoolgroup and thus get a lot of new players whom I often have to remind how to roll for whatever. I often look over their character sheets to make sure that they have their stats inputted properly (like in at all and in how they want to play their character), so that their spells exist, and so that they level up when they need to and do it properly. I asked my players to roll initiative, something I'd had them do previously in the campaign so i thought there'd be no problems but while i was getting numbers called out my skilled and veteran player sat stumped. She'd rolled a nat 1 and because she has a "-1" (i'd neglected to check over her character sheet because she knows what she's doing) she'd gotten zero. Part of me wants to give her a silly penalty for critical failing the initiative. What do you think i should do?
Have her go on her turn, which would be at zero. There's no "critical fail" for initiative.
I once downloaded a quick encounter template somewhere that has lines for each initiative number you can roll. It started at 25 and went down to -5, I'm guessing because +5 is the highest you can go with normal ASI progression. Just place the player wherever he ended up - there is no failing initiative anyways. He'll generally go last if rolling 1's but who knows, maybe that gelatinous cube(3 dex so -4) rolls even lower?
Have her go on initiative zero since that is what she rolled. There is absolutely no significance to skill check numbers below 1 or above 20. Rolling a natural 1 or a natural 20 does NOTHING for skill/ability checks or saving throws. The only consequence to a natural 1 or 20 in 5e is on the to hit roll. A 1 is a miss and a 20 is a critical hit.
The range of possible results from rolling the d20 on a skill check probably ranges from -4 to +40 or so. The only reason a negative number looks odd is because they are relatively uncommon. A character with strength 8 can roll a zero on a strength saving throw or an athletics check if they aren't proficient. There is no reason to do something "special" just because you don't see a character roll the number very often. Do you do something weird when the dex fighter with 20 dex rolls a 6 for initiative? (they rolled a 1 too ...).
In this case, rolling a 1 for initiative happens 5% of the time. That is pretty frequent. There is no reason to penalize a player for rolling a 1.
I have seen a lot of characters with an 8 dexterity - mostly paladins or heavy armor fighters who dump dex. Their initiative suffers a bit but it has no impact on their AC since they are wearing heavy armor.
That’s not entirely true. Since natural 1s and 20s only matter on Attack rolls, rolling high and having a positive modifier that would bring the total above 20 definitely matters as that’s the only way to hit DCs above 20. If you end up with a 22 for your Initiative, then you go at count 22, it doesn’t get dropped to 20.
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Yep - I wasn't being clear. I should have said that there isn't anything special about numbers below 1 or above 20 - they are just numbers below 1 or above 20. They don't automatically succeed or fail. Very high or low numbers don't have any inherent narrative associated with them.
Yes, a character rolling 22 on initiative has a high value, they may go first unless there was a higher roll but it doesn't have any particular additional significance just because the result is below 1 or above 20. The character doesn't succeed or fail spectacularly just because of the number rolled. It is quite possible to roll a 22 and still fail a skill check if the DC is higher. In addition it is possible that rolling a 1 will still pass a DC 10 skill check, especially in cases with expertise.
Only to hit rolls have additional significance applied in the rules for the cases of 1 and 20 being rolled. A 1 automatically misses, a 20 automatically hits and in addition is considered a critical hit. A champion fighter with an expanded crit range can still miss if they roll a 19 (even though it would be a critical hit) but not if they roll a 20.