Honestly, while I'm DMing and with our last group, the only time we really care about darkvision was really during exploration, and even then, we just put a darkvision character in the front, maybe one in the back and just have a kindergarten line up marching through the dungeon with them leading the blind.
We haven't really been too annoying about it in combat, or the blind character(s) have torches/light cantrip up so they're not all lost during exploration. I honestly should make it more consequential especially with random encounters but if I'm honest, with 6 players and milestone leveling, I don't really have that many random encounters, public encounters, I can also make more challenging, depending on how they blunder forward.
What do the rest of you guys do? Should I leave it as is or make it more necessary?
In my campaign I haven't made darkness/darkvision a big deal. The party doesn't all have darkvision, so I figure they're carrying torches or light all of the time, so they can both see and be seen.
I'd make a big deal of light or lack thereof if they are trying to be stealthy or someone else is.
We play with a house rule that elves (not drow) and half-elves don't get Darkvision, they have Low-Light vision, which means they see normally in dim light.
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“I am longing to be with you, and by the sea, where we can talk together freely and build our castles in the air.” ― Bram Stoker, Dracula
Example from yesterday's session in a dark underground area. The human cleric simple can not see unless he tells me to get out a torch. To which I proclaimed that his torches are drenched due to being swept by the water. In which he almost drowned. Continual flame torch/candle does still work. I always make sure there is an option for such a torch or candle to be gotten somewhere in the early levels for use. That means the cleric could see again within a certain range. Also means the enemies can see him coming, before he can see them.
I also have the, basically blind PC's, in a dark environment ... roll disadvantage on stealth rolls. Even when guided by party members that do have darkvision. They're going to stumble onto something or accidentally kick some stones. They're blind. They don't know.
Everyone else with darkvision can only see up to a certain distance in the dark. Even then they can only see things in grey tones and not in color. Usually this doesn't really come into play that much. You can describe the contours of the figure they see moving. In the case of dragons however these contours are often shared with 1 or 2 other type of dragons. Meaning that the contours and gray tones they see are not enough to identify the dragon with. For a DM this means you have to learn a little bit about the anatomy of the creatures and how you describe them.
In the case of using a limited light source, and still limited range of vision for darkvision, you can have the caverns and such higher. Meaning the PC's can't see the ceiling of the grotto's and such they're in. Allowing the DM to drop Darkmantles, Shriekers and other things as a surprise on their head. You can use Darkvision this way to narrative instill the dread of the dark. Especially when they can hear things, smells...knowing there is danger beyond their range of sight.
Applying Darkvision in combat I find difficult at the table due to meta-gaming. In Roll20, as a player, I enjoyed the DM using light options. Where I couldn't see the enemy just beyond my peripherals. So out of precaution finding some bushes and going prone. Trying to see where the attack came from. Added some real nice tactical elements and depth. More 6second communication with the other members was required. Keeping each other informed where the other one was and what they saw. Was a lot of fun to do. Or sneaking in the dark while the enemies gave away their position with torches. Easily picking them off. In short. Playing with the light/darkness can add a great deal to the game, but isn't easy to pull off properly at the table.
Apply it as how you and your players see fit. There are plenty who don't do anything with lightsources. While at my table we go for a more gritty experience.
Giblix- This is exactly how illumnation rules are to be used in D&D. They can be handwaved and ignored or dropped like an anvil on the party when it is important. Kind of like real world light, in most situations we have enough to do what we need without hinderance, it is only when it is stressful (read as plot demands) that seeing becomes really important.
One thing I do consistently point out to my Darkvision gifted PCs is the limitations of both color and distance. I don't describe color unless there is a light source and I keep visual ranges short based on the PC which is typically 30 feet.
Mechanically, darkness is an important environmental aspect to keep track of. Creatures who can't see in the dark are at a significant disadvantage either outside at night or in a dungeon/natural underground environment.
1) Light sources. A party can easily use light sources. A torch is 20' bright light and 20' dim, a hooded lantern is 30' bright light and 30' dim. Folks can see well within these distances. However, they can be SEEN from much farther. Any creature in the darkness beyond 60' will have advantage shooting the lit targets while the ones in the light will have disadvantage attacking the creatures they can't see in the darkness around them. If you are lit up, there is no range limitation on vision.
2) If you are in darkness without a light source or dark vision you are effectively blinded. A blinded creature automatically fails any skill checks relying on sight. Stealth and perception rely on sight and sound so a DM would be justified in imposing disadvantage on stealth and perception checks (or any other multi sense dependent skill check) while the character is in darkness. Dragging a comrade stumbling through darkness because you want the party to be stealthy isn't that effective.
3) Darkvision isn't perfect. Everything is in black and white. The character has disadvantage on perception checks when in darkness. This is important. It is much harder to notice traps with darkvision in darkness. A character with a 20 passive perception who would normally notice hidden doors and traps easily, only has a 15 passive when using darkvision in darkness and they may miss seeing things that would be obvious with a light source.
4) Darkvision has ranges. 60' is typical, 120' for some races. This means that some of the underdark races can easily attack a party from 100' outside at night or in a dungeon where the party can't see them. This is an important consideration when adjudicating encounters in the dark. However, the way the rules are written, if everyone has darkvision and it is the same range then either everyone can see everyone else (<60') or they can't (>60'). In this case, all the attack rolls are a straight roll despite the range. As a result, a party with some creatures who can see in the dark and some who can't is often better off dowsing light sources if the combat is with creatures beyond the range of the light source. If it is beyond 60' and no one can see anyone else then (by RAW) it doesn't matter whether a character has darkvision or not, everyone is firing at targets that they can't see and which can't see them.
5) Devil's sight is amazing for exploring dark environments. It is 120' of vision in darkness as if it was brightly lit. Colours, full vision, but no shadows so it is obvious that there are no light sources. No disadvantage on perception checks and the ability to see through magical darkness make this amazing.
In one of my older campaigns, the party consisted of only characters with Darkvision. No one had a light spell or cantrip for emergencies and decided to rely on torches for such times.
The party was 5th level at the time and were passing through a windy, underground chasm with a river passing through it. They came up against 2 shadows that devasted theparty. They couldn't get a torch lit due to the windy nature of the environment. They couldn't see the shadows due to dim light.
Only the warlock who had devil sight was effective and managed to almost kill the one shadow before they both focused on him. The shadows used basic gorilla warfare on the party.
Understand, the party had been warned that the campaign would be taking them underground, possible as deep as the Underdark. Due to research in advance for the area, they knew there was a good chance of Undead in the area. Still no of them had even a light cantrip <sigh>
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
In one of my older campaigns, the party consisted of only characters with Darkvision. No one had a light spell or cantrip for emergencies and decided to rely on torches for such times.
The party was 5th level at the time and were passing through a windy, underground chasm with a river passing through it. They came up against 2 shadows that devasted theparty. They couldn't get a torch lit due to the windy nature of the environment. They couldn't see the shadows due to dim light.
Only the warlock who had devil sight was effective and managed to almost kill the one shadow before they both focused on him. The shadows used basic gorilla warfare on the party.
Understand, the party had been warned that the campaign would be taking them underground, possible as deep as the Underdark. Due to research in advance for the area, they knew there was a good chance of Undead in the area. Still no of them had even a light cantrip <sigh>
Just curious, was this the shadow from the monster manual or some homebrew?
The shadow in the monster manual can use the hide action as a free bonus action in dim light or darkness (with +6 stealth skill). However, it doesn't say anything about being invisible or other advantages. Since the warlock can see them clearly, he can let the other characters know which square they are in so at the very worst the attacks are only at disadvantage. Shadows in the book only have 16 hit points and 12 AC but they have lots of resistances. Anyway, I am having trouble picturing a couple of shadows being a challenge for a party of level 5 adventurers even in the dark.
Though your moral of the story, "always have some reliable light source available", is well taken :)
let those handfull of shadows attack your warlock buddy or wizard/sorcerer and see them go down fast. then see how fast those players will have to make a new PC. and of course they'll have 27hp and not the average 16hp. I've had lvl 14 wizard die from an ambush that included several shadows. 3-5 good hits and they're down to 0 str and die. Same with how a lot of people use INT as their dump stat and die from an encounter with a few Intellect Devourers. When used properly these low CR creatures can hit far above their threshold.
Honestly, while I'm DMing and with our last group, the only time we really care about darkvision was really during exploration, and even then, we just put a darkvision character in the front, maybe one in the back and just have a kindergarten line up marching through the dungeon with them leading the blind.
We haven't really been too annoying about it in combat, or the blind character(s) have torches/light cantrip up so they're not all lost during exploration. I honestly should make it more consequential especially with random encounters but if I'm honest, with 6 players and milestone leveling, I don't really have that many random encounters, public encounters, I can also make more challenging, depending on how they blunder forward.
What do the rest of you guys do? Should I leave it as is or make it more necessary?
I have started to read and interpret the darkvision rules as a creature with darkvision has to BE IN dim light to see in dim light as bright light, and BE INdarkness to see in darkness as dim light. Meaning, you can't be standing out in the open and in bright light, at the opening to a cave that has 10' of dim light followed by total darkness, and see into the darkness, even though the darkness is only 15' away from you. You have to be standing in a space of darkness to see in the darkness.
So, OP, by not using the light and vision constraints during combat, what benefit/drawback do your players have with the choices they make during character creation or advancement? How would you handle a monster with Blindsight? If you don't have time for it in your game, then you are completely at liberty to ditch it as some old, antiquated nuisance that rarely sees the light of day. (pun intended)
I must be one of the rarities mentioned as I still use light and vision rules in my games. It can allow for challenging decisions for the party both in combat and in exploration. When faced with tough choices, the player can feel empowered by coming up with unique solutions to situations that would otherwise be handwaved away. Choosing between holding a torch, or holding their spell casting focus becomes consequential. <Why, back in my day, we used to hire Torch Bearers to go into the dungeons with our party and if they got killed, we would have to hold the torches ourselves, and we liked it!>
I'll agree that there were piles of things that didn't come forward from B/X and 1e/2e. There's things that didn't come forward from each edition, that doesn't make the bits that are here today useless. I can respect that there are a myriad of ways to play and run the game. The game does what you want it to. If you feel constrained by the system, change it. If you don't find the exploration pillar consequential, adapt it to suit your needs. Just like we did in the olden days.
The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You’re the DM, and you are in charge of the game.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Example from yesterday's session in a dark underground area. The human cleric simple can not see unless he tells me to get out a torch. To which I proclaimed that his torches are drenched due to being swept by the water.
I would not have ruled such. Torches are often made from animal fat, tar, or wax soaked fabric wrapped around a stick. None of those things would simply wash off.
In the end I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve by taking away the PC's light.
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"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I hate darkvision, in part because so many races have it that it feels more like the norm than the exception. In my next campaign, I'm just going to do away with it altogether.
I play to the rules with some common sense. Over half my party doesn’t have dark vision, but we have a warlock with 120 feet of it and a cleric with 300 feet of it who can share that out, but a party of 8 So they can scout and see stuff but if for instance the Minotaur is blind then I allow him to make out shapes and things a few feet ahead, but he has all the usually combat disadvantages.
So he won’t stumble past a Chuul for instance that is within a few feet, he will sense and feel that there is something there.
Everyone is saying that all races have it, but is the percentage really that different from 1e? Yes, only 2 races had it back then, but that's out of how many total, like 4? There are many popular races in 5e that do not have darkvision, including probably the most popular of all - humans. In games I run it generally shakes out to about half and half.
Outside of combat, I think you can run lighting and vision pretty much the same as it's always been done. It's when you get into combat that it gets clunky because you're constantly having to figure out where the light sources are in relation to everyone as they are all running around, and if you're all at a table each player has to remember what part of the map in front of them their character can actually see (and the DM has to remember it all). It's almost always just way more overhead than it's worth.
Except with online play. You can let the tabletop handle all the lighting and every player only sees what their character sees. It's been a total game-changer for me and I love including it in combat now. I love that the players need to ask each other what's going on. I love that the human paladin can't just make a beeline for the hag crouching in the dark corner. It was really just the immersion-breaking bookkeeping aspect of it that turned me off of it.
I once suggested that all player characters ought to have Darkvision to level the field a little. People had a fit over the idea. I was reliably informed that it would make having a special racial power useless if everyone had it. So why then is there is a Common rarity item called Goggles of Night that gives Darkvision?
Back in the days of Infravision and Ultravision, using a torch spoiled special racial vision modes. There was also a spell called Continual Light that was permanent and used for all sorts of cool shenanigans. Casting Continual Light on a coin and dropping it into a scroll case gave you the magical equivalent of a Flashlight that didn't need batteries.
We have a Continual Flame spell now which produces light without heat and doesn't use up oxygen. It only lasts until dispelled.
One of the basic flaws with the vision and lighting system is that it's never really covered by the rules how far away a light source can be detected from. In the real world, at sea, the glow from a cigarette can be seen for miles. It would be the same deep underground or on a moonless night. It would be pretty much impossible to ever sneak up on anything if a light source was needed to see.
Darkvision comes in two modes really. The normal kind lets you see 60 feet, the Superior kind goes out to 120. Both cut off sharp as a razor beyond that, which is kind of silly if you think about it. They ought to taper off gradually past that.
Exploration in dark places is basic to D&D. Darkvision barely fills the need as it stands. Among the standard races, it's just Humans, Halflings, Dragonborn, and 3 of the 4 types of Gensai that are nightblind.
The Warlock invocation "Devil's Sight" is so vastly useful that anyone able to grab it generally does, and if their base class can't get it, multi-classing into Warlock is nearly mandatory. Two levels of any sort of Warlock gets you Devil's Sight and something else that is cool, three levels of Hexblade is almost the only sort of Warlock multi-class you ever see. It's usually Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight that people go after. A Drow Warlock built like that sees clearly out to 120 feet even in magical darkness. Another easily available magic item called the Knaves Eyepatch gets rid of their Sunlight Sensitivity so no matter what lighting condition they are in, they see bright as day.
For myself, I have stopped trying to play Humans. I use the Custom Lineage race option instead. I get 2 points worth of scores, darkvision, and a Feat all at first level. I use the "other modifier" entry to add in two more points worth of scores and that puts me at just slightly less powerful than a Half-Elf or Mountain Dwarf.
I once suggested that all player characters ought to have Darkvision to level the field a little. People had a fit over the idea. I was reliably informed that it would make having a special racial power useless if everyone had it. So why then is there is a Common rarity item called Goggles of Night that gives Darkvision?
Back in the days of Infravision and Ultravision, using a torch spoiled special racial vision modes. There was also a spell called Continual Light that was permanent and used for all sorts of cool shenanigans. Casting Continual Light on a coin and dropping it into a scroll case gave you the magical equivalent of a Flashlight that didn't need batteries.
We have a Continual Flame spell now which produces light without heat and doesn't use up oxygen. It only lasts until dispelled.
One of the basic flaws with the vision and lighting system is that it's never really covered by the rules how far away a light source can be detected from. In the real world, at sea, the glow from a cigarette can be seen for miles. It would be the same deep underground or on a moonless night. It would be pretty much impossible to ever sneak up on anything if a light source was needed to see.
Darkvision comes in two modes really. The normal kind lets you see 60 feet, the Superior kind goes out to 120. Both cut off sharp as a razor beyond that, which is kind of silly if you think about it. They ought to taper off gradually past that.
Exploration in dark places is basic to D&D. Darkvision barely fills the need as it stands. Among the standard races, it's just Humans, Halflings, Dragonborn, and 3 of the 4 types of Gensai that are nightblind.
The Warlock invocation "Devil's Sight" is so vastly useful that anyone able to grab it generally does, and if their base class can't get it, multi-classing into Warlock is nearly mandatory. Two levels of any sort of Warlock gets you Devil's Sight and something else that is cool, three levels of Hexblade is almost the only sort of Warlock multi-class you ever see. It's usually Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight that people go after. A Drow Warlock built like that sees clearly out to 120 feet even in magical darkness. Another easily available magic item called the Knaves Eyepatch gets rid of their Sunlight Sensitivity so no matter what lighting condition they are in, they see bright as day.
For myself, I have stopped trying to play Humans. I use the Custom Lineage race option instead. I get 2 points worth of scores, darkvision, and a Feat all at first level. I use the "other modifier" entry to add in two more points worth of scores and that puts me at just slightly less powerful than a Half-Elf or Mountain Dwarf.
For me dark vision does taper out, the range shows the maximum range where things can be made out well enough to hit without disadvantage. Remember a character without dark vision can still shoot an arrow in the dark and just have disadvantage to the hit.
As for magic items, just cos they are common doesn’t mean they are easily accessible to the party.
Darkvision is nice when everyone has it, otherwise a single light source cancel it on top of giving off your position. It forces a mixed vision party to either stick togheter or split up to scout ahead, and those doing so are not always good at being stealthy. This may even often result in critical situations where it puts the scout in danger while far away from the rest of the party to intervene quickly.
I also find too many creatures have darkvision, which kinda make it too common in the game, most often trivial when everyone on opposing sides have it.
If everyone or no one has it, it's trivial.
If some have it while others don't but stick togheter, it's trivial.
So the only moment it's not trivial is when scouting ahead.
I once suggested that all player characters ought to have Darkvision to level the field a little. People had a fit over the idea. I was reliably informed that it would make having a special racial power useless if everyone had it. So why then is there is a Common rarity item called Goggles of Night that gives Darkvision?
Back in the days of Infravision and Ultravision, using a torch spoiled special racial vision modes. There was also a spell called Continual Light that was permanent and used for all sorts of cool shenanigans. Casting Continual Light on a coin and dropping it into a scroll case gave you the magical equivalent of a Flashlight that didn't need batteries.
We have a Continual Flame spell now which produces light without heat and doesn't use up oxygen. It only lasts until dispelled.
One of the basic flaws with the vision and lighting system is that it's never really covered by the rules how far away a light source can be detected from. In the real world, at sea, the glow from a cigarette can be seen for miles. It would be the same deep underground or on a moonless night. It would be pretty much impossible to ever sneak up on anything if a light source was needed to see.
Darkvision comes in two modes really. The normal kind lets you see 60 feet, the Superior kind goes out to 120. Both cut off sharp as a razor beyond that, which is kind of silly if you think about it. They ought to taper off gradually past that.
Exploration in dark places is basic to D&D. Darkvision barely fills the need as it stands. Among the standard races, it's just Humans, Halflings, Dragonborn, and 3 of the 4 types of Gensai that are nightblind.
The Warlock invocation "Devil's Sight" is so vastly useful that anyone able to grab it generally does, and if their base class can't get it, multi-classing into Warlock is nearly mandatory. Two levels of any sort of Warlock gets you Devil's Sight and something else that is cool, three levels of Hexblade is almost the only sort of Warlock multi-class you ever see. It's usually Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight that people go after. A Drow Warlock built like that sees clearly out to 120 feet even in magical darkness. Another easily available magic item called the Knaves Eyepatch gets rid of their Sunlight Sensitivity so no matter what lighting condition they are in, they see bright as day.
For myself, I have stopped trying to play Humans. I use the Custom Lineage race option instead. I get 2 points worth of scores, darkvision, and a Feat all at first level. I use the "other modifier" entry to add in two more points worth of scores and that puts me at just slightly less powerful than a Half-Elf or Mountain Dwarf.
For me dark vision does taper out, the range shows the maximum range where things can be made out well enough to hit without disadvantage. Remember a character without dark vision can still shoot an arrow in the dark and just have disadvantage to the hit.
As for magic items, just cos they are common doesn’t mean they are easily accessible to the party.
I mean for scouting yes, but in combat no dark vision characters are at disadvantage if there is no light
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Honestly, while I'm DMing and with our last group, the only time we really care about darkvision was really during exploration, and even then, we just put a darkvision character in the front, maybe one in the back and just have a kindergarten line up marching through the dungeon with them leading the blind.
We haven't really been too annoying about it in combat, or the blind character(s) have torches/light cantrip up so they're not all lost during exploration. I honestly should make it more consequential especially with random encounters but if I'm honest, with 6 players and milestone leveling, I don't really have that many random encounters, public encounters, I can also make more challenging, depending on how they blunder forward.
What do the rest of you guys do? Should I leave it as is or make it more necessary?
In my campaign I haven't made darkness/darkvision a big deal. The party doesn't all have darkvision, so I figure they're carrying torches or light all of the time, so they can both see and be seen.
I'd make a big deal of light or lack thereof if they are trying to be stealthy or someone else is.
We play with a house rule that elves (not drow) and half-elves don't get Darkvision, they have Low-Light vision, which means they see normally in dim light.
“I am longing to be with you, and by the sea, where we can talk together freely and build our castles in the air.”
― Bram Stoker, Dracula
Darkvision...
Example from yesterday's session in a dark underground area. The human cleric simple can not see unless he tells me to get out a torch. To which I proclaimed that his torches are drenched due to being swept by the water. In which he almost drowned. Continual flame torch/candle does still work. I always make sure there is an option for such a torch or candle to be gotten somewhere in the early levels for use. That means the cleric could see again within a certain range. Also means the enemies can see him coming, before he can see them.
I also have the, basically blind PC's, in a dark environment ... roll disadvantage on stealth rolls. Even when guided by party members that do have darkvision. They're going to stumble onto something or accidentally kick some stones. They're blind. They don't know.
Everyone else with darkvision can only see up to a certain distance in the dark. Even then they can only see things in grey tones and not in color. Usually this doesn't really come into play that much. You can describe the contours of the figure they see moving. In the case of dragons however these contours are often shared with 1 or 2 other type of dragons. Meaning that the contours and gray tones they see are not enough to identify the dragon with. For a DM this means you have to learn a little bit about the anatomy of the creatures and how you describe them.
In the case of using a limited light source, and still limited range of vision for darkvision, you can have the caverns and such higher. Meaning the PC's can't see the ceiling of the grotto's and such they're in. Allowing the DM to drop Darkmantles, Shriekers and other things as a surprise on their head. You can use Darkvision this way to narrative instill the dread of the dark. Especially when they can hear things, smells...knowing there is danger beyond their range of sight.
Applying Darkvision in combat I find difficult at the table due to meta-gaming. In Roll20, as a player, I enjoyed the DM using light options. Where I couldn't see the enemy just beyond my peripherals. So out of precaution finding some bushes and going prone. Trying to see where the attack came from. Added some real nice tactical elements and depth. More 6second communication with the other members was required. Keeping each other informed where the other one was and what they saw. Was a lot of fun to do. Or sneaking in the dark while the enemies gave away their position with torches. Easily picking them off. In short. Playing with the light/darkness can add a great deal to the game, but isn't easy to pull off properly at the table.
Apply it as how you and your players see fit. There are plenty who don't do anything with lightsources. While at my table we go for a more gritty experience.
Giblix- This is exactly how illumnation rules are to be used in D&D. They can be handwaved and ignored or dropped like an anvil on the party when it is important. Kind of like real world light, in most situations we have enough to do what we need without hinderance, it is only when it is stressful (read as plot demands) that seeing becomes really important.
One thing I do consistently point out to my Darkvision gifted PCs is the limitations of both color and distance. I don't describe color unless there is a light source and I keep visual ranges short based on the PC which is typically 30 feet.
Mechanically, darkness is an important environmental aspect to keep track of. Creatures who can't see in the dark are at a significant disadvantage either outside at night or in a dungeon/natural underground environment.
1) Light sources. A party can easily use light sources. A torch is 20' bright light and 20' dim, a hooded lantern is 30' bright light and 30' dim. Folks can see well within these distances. However, they can be SEEN from much farther. Any creature in the darkness beyond 60' will have advantage shooting the lit targets while the ones in the light will have disadvantage attacking the creatures they can't see in the darkness around them. If you are lit up, there is no range limitation on vision.
2) If you are in darkness without a light source or dark vision you are effectively blinded. A blinded creature automatically fails any skill checks relying on sight. Stealth and perception rely on sight and sound so a DM would be justified in imposing disadvantage on stealth and perception checks (or any other multi sense dependent skill check) while the character is in darkness. Dragging a comrade stumbling through darkness because you want the party to be stealthy isn't that effective.
3) Darkvision isn't perfect. Everything is in black and white. The character has disadvantage on perception checks when in darkness. This is important. It is much harder to notice traps with darkvision in darkness. A character with a 20 passive perception who would normally notice hidden doors and traps easily, only has a 15 passive when using darkvision in darkness and they may miss seeing things that would be obvious with a light source.
4) Darkvision has ranges. 60' is typical, 120' for some races. This means that some of the underdark races can easily attack a party from 100' outside at night or in a dungeon where the party can't see them. This is an important consideration when adjudicating encounters in the dark. However, the way the rules are written, if everyone has darkvision and it is the same range then either everyone can see everyone else (<60') or they can't (>60'). In this case, all the attack rolls are a straight roll despite the range. As a result, a party with some creatures who can see in the dark and some who can't is often better off dowsing light sources if the combat is with creatures beyond the range of the light source. If it is beyond 60' and no one can see anyone else then (by RAW) it doesn't matter whether a character has darkvision or not, everyone is firing at targets that they can't see and which can't see them.
5) Devil's sight is amazing for exploring dark environments. It is 120' of vision in darkness as if it was brightly lit. Colours, full vision, but no shadows so it is obvious that there are no light sources. No disadvantage on perception checks and the ability to see through magical darkness make this amazing.
In one of my older campaigns, the party consisted of only characters with Darkvision. No one had a light spell or cantrip for emergencies and decided to rely on torches for such times.
The party was 5th level at the time and were passing through a windy, underground chasm with a river passing through it. They came up against 2 shadows that devasted theparty. They couldn't get a torch lit due to the windy nature of the environment. They couldn't see the shadows due to dim light.
Only the warlock who had devil sight was effective and managed to almost kill the one shadow before they both focused on him. The shadows used basic gorilla warfare on the party.
Understand, the party had been warned that the campaign would be taking them underground, possible as deep as the Underdark. Due to research in advance for the area, they knew there was a good chance of Undead in the area. Still no of them had even a light cantrip <sigh>
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Just curious, was this the shadow from the monster manual or some homebrew?
The shadow in the monster manual can use the hide action as a free bonus action in dim light or darkness (with +6 stealth skill). However, it doesn't say anything about being invisible or other advantages. Since the warlock can see them clearly, he can let the other characters know which square they are in so at the very worst the attacks are only at disadvantage. Shadows in the book only have 16 hit points and 12 AC but they have lots of resistances. Anyway, I am having trouble picturing a couple of shadows being a challenge for a party of level 5 adventurers even in the dark.
Though your moral of the story, "always have some reliable light source available", is well taken :)
let those handfull of shadows attack your warlock buddy or wizard/sorcerer and see them go down fast. then see how fast those players will have to make a new PC. and of course they'll have 27hp and not the average 16hp. I've had lvl 14 wizard die from an ambush that included several shadows. 3-5 good hits and they're down to 0 str and die. Same with how a lot of people use INT as their dump stat and die from an encounter with a few Intellect Devourers. When used properly these low CR creatures can hit far above their threshold.
I have started to read and interpret the darkvision rules as a creature with darkvision has to BE IN dim light to see in dim light as bright light, and BE IN darkness to see in darkness as dim light. Meaning, you can't be standing out in the open and in bright light, at the opening to a cave that has 10' of dim light followed by total darkness, and see into the darkness, even though the darkness is only 15' away from you. You have to be standing in a space of darkness to see in the darkness.
I must be one of the rarities mentioned as I still use light and vision rules in my games. It can allow for challenging decisions for the party both in combat and in exploration. When faced with tough choices, the player can feel empowered by coming up with unique solutions to situations that would otherwise be handwaved away. Choosing between holding a torch, or holding their spell casting focus becomes consequential. <Why, back in my day, we used to hire Torch Bearers to go into the dungeons with our party and if they got killed, we would have to hold the torches ourselves, and we liked it!>
I'll agree that there were piles of things that didn't come forward from B/X and 1e/2e. There's things that didn't come forward from each edition, that doesn't make the bits that are here today useless. I can respect that there are a myriad of ways to play and run the game. The game does what you want it to. If you feel constrained by the system, change it. If you don't find the exploration pillar consequential, adapt it to suit your needs. Just like we did in the olden days.
The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You’re the DM, and you are in charge of the game.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I would not have ruled such. Torches are often made from animal fat, tar, or wax soaked fabric wrapped around a stick. None of those things would simply wash off.
In the end I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve by taking away the PC's light.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I hate darkvision, in part because so many races have it that it feels more like the norm than the exception. In my next campaign, I'm just going to do away with it altogether.
I play to the rules with some common sense. Over half my party doesn’t have dark vision, but we have a warlock with 120 feet of it and a cleric with 300 feet of it who can share that out, but a party of 8 So they can scout and see stuff but if for instance the Minotaur is blind then I allow him to make out shapes and things a few feet ahead, but he has all the usually combat disadvantages.
So he won’t stumble past a Chuul for instance that is within a few feet, he will sense and feel that there is something there.
Everyone is saying that all races have it, but is the percentage really that different from 1e? Yes, only 2 races had it back then, but that's out of how many total, like 4? There are many popular races in 5e that do not have darkvision, including probably the most popular of all - humans. In games I run it generally shakes out to about half and half.
Outside of combat, I think you can run lighting and vision pretty much the same as it's always been done. It's when you get into combat that it gets clunky because you're constantly having to figure out where the light sources are in relation to everyone as they are all running around, and if you're all at a table each player has to remember what part of the map in front of them their character can actually see (and the DM has to remember it all). It's almost always just way more overhead than it's worth.
Except with online play. You can let the tabletop handle all the lighting and every player only sees what their character sees. It's been a total game-changer for me and I love including it in combat now. I love that the players need to ask each other what's going on. I love that the human paladin can't just make a beeline for the hag crouching in the dark corner. It was really just the immersion-breaking bookkeeping aspect of it that turned me off of it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I once suggested that all player characters ought to have Darkvision to level the field a little. People had a fit over the idea. I was reliably informed that it would make having a special racial power useless if everyone had it. So why then is there is a Common rarity item called Goggles of Night that gives Darkvision?
Back in the days of Infravision and Ultravision, using a torch spoiled special racial vision modes. There was also a spell called Continual Light that was permanent and used for all sorts of cool shenanigans. Casting Continual Light on a coin and dropping it into a scroll case gave you the magical equivalent of a Flashlight that didn't need batteries.
We have a Continual Flame spell now which produces light without heat and doesn't use up oxygen. It only lasts until dispelled.
One of the basic flaws with the vision and lighting system is that it's never really covered by the rules how far away a light source can be detected from. In the real world, at sea, the glow from a cigarette can be seen for miles. It would be the same deep underground or on a moonless night. It would be pretty much impossible to ever sneak up on anything if a light source was needed to see.
Darkvision comes in two modes really. The normal kind lets you see 60 feet, the Superior kind goes out to 120. Both cut off sharp as a razor beyond that, which is kind of silly if you think about it. They ought to taper off gradually past that.
Exploration in dark places is basic to D&D. Darkvision barely fills the need as it stands. Among the standard races, it's just Humans, Halflings, Dragonborn, and 3 of the 4 types of Gensai that are nightblind.
The Warlock invocation "Devil's Sight" is so vastly useful that anyone able to grab it generally does, and if their base class can't get it, multi-classing into Warlock is nearly mandatory. Two levels of any sort of Warlock gets you Devil's Sight and something else that is cool, three levels of Hexblade is almost the only sort of Warlock multi-class you ever see. It's usually Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight that people go after. A Drow Warlock built like that sees clearly out to 120 feet even in magical darkness. Another easily available magic item called the Knaves Eyepatch gets rid of their Sunlight Sensitivity so no matter what lighting condition they are in, they see bright as day.
For myself, I have stopped trying to play Humans. I use the Custom Lineage race option instead. I get 2 points worth of scores, darkvision, and a Feat all at first level. I use the "other modifier" entry to add in two more points worth of scores and that puts me at just slightly less powerful than a Half-Elf or Mountain Dwarf.
<Insert clever signature here>
Not worrying about it is fine, as long as you’re consistent.
You can’t let the party explore 15 caves without mentioning light, then have them be blind in the 16th cave.
For me dark vision does taper out, the range shows the maximum range where things can be made out well enough to hit without disadvantage. Remember a character without dark vision can still shoot an arrow in the dark and just have disadvantage to the hit.
As for magic items, just cos they are common doesn’t mean they are easily accessible to the party.
Darkvision is nice when everyone has it, otherwise a single light source cancel it on top of giving off your position. It forces a mixed vision party to either stick togheter or split up to scout ahead, and those doing so are not always good at being stealthy. This may even often result in critical situations where it puts the scout in danger while far away from the rest of the party to intervene quickly.
I also find too many creatures have darkvision, which kinda make it too common in the game, most often trivial when everyone on opposing sides have it.
If everyone or no one has it, it's trivial.
If some have it while others don't but stick togheter, it's trivial.
So the only moment it's not trivial is when scouting ahead.
I mean for scouting yes, but in combat no dark vision characters are at disadvantage if there is no light