So I was running my first session as DM last week, and the players did something I didn't expect. They wanted to divide an uneven number of loot among themselves, with the winner of a game of cards receiving the largest portion of the treasure. This seemed like something I needed to resolve with a contest, and I was flying off the seat of my pants, so I had them roll a Performance check. At the time, it seemed like the appropriate skill to adjudicate the contest, but after reflecting I wonder if I could've chosen a better one, like just a straight Wisdom or Intelligence check perhaps.
So my questions are, how have players wanted to use the playing cards in your games? How did you resolve them? How would you have resolved my own situation if it had happened in one of your games?
Playing Cards are a gaming tool that characters may be proficient in - depending on the game, I usually get them to use INT for the check, unless they describe how they are trying to use other methods to win.
I agree that it would be an Intelligence check, applying bonuses for those proficient. I would allow Deception and/or Sleight of Hand checks vs Perception for characters who want to cheat to win.
I agree that it would be an Intelligence check, applying bonuses for those proficient. I would allow Deception and/or Sleight of Hand checks vs Perception for characters who want to cheat to win.
I agree that it would be an Intelligence check, applying bonuses for those proficient. I would allow Deception and/or Sleight of Hand checks vs Perception for characters who want to cheat to win.
There is some overlap between Performance and Deception, e.g. an actor is one who performs through elaborate deception. However, I think performing involves emoting, whereas bluffing in a card game is more about hiding emotions, and is more appropriately a Deception check. But if the player makes a good case for using Performance, then why not?
There's not much I can add except that if they did it once they may well do it again. That being said, maybe you and your players should familiarize yourselves with dice poker ala the witcher series. That way, be it a single hand takes all or an ante by ante take, they can really get the card aspect and you can have less ability checks to ask for. The best part is, you can still add checks to go with the dice. Those with proficiency with card games can roll an extra dice and drop one of their choice, as can those that roll a high enough slight of hand.
Honestly? I would ask "what game will you play?" and attempt to replicate it.
Poker? Deuces wild? Roll 5 D10s, Re-roll 1x. Standard rules apply. If they get a 10, they can roll a D4 and put it above the D10 to simulate face cards. Alternately, they could roll 5d10 and 5d4, and use the d4s to represent suits.
Go fish? Each player rolls 5 d10s and keeps them secret. each round, you can alter 1 d10. Guess numbers, take your opponents dice to make pairs. First person out of dice wins.
Old maid? Each player puts 10 dice (various) in a bag, and the DM adds a big red d20 to one of the bags in secret (you can even roll for which bag you add it to.) The players then take turns pulling dice. If they pull the red one, it goes in their bag, otherwise they can make pairs by sides (d4s pair with d4s, d8s pair with d8s, etc) last one holding the red die loses.
Honestly? I would ask "what game will you play?" and attempt to replicate it.
Poker? Deuces wild? Roll 5 D10s, Re-roll 1x. Standard rules apply. If they get a 10, they can roll a D4 and put it above the D10 to simulate face cards. Alternately, they could roll 5d10 and 5d4, and use the d4s to represent suits.
Go fish? Each player rolls 5 d10s and keeps them secret. each round, you can alter 1 d10. Guess numbers, take your opponents dice to make pairs. First person out of dice wins.
Old maid? Each player puts 10 dice (various) in a bag, and the DM adds a big red d20 to one of the bags in secret (you can even roll for which bag you add it to.) The players then take turns pulling dice. If they pull the red one, it goes in their bag, otherwise they can make pairs by sides (d4s pair with d4s, d8s pair with d8s, etc) last one holding the red die loses.
It depends. This could be to overcomplicate things and make it confusing. In my opinion, using the theather of mind and appropriate skill checks would work just fine. But asking what type of game they play would be key. Becouse as a gm you want do describe how it plays out. But hey, thats just my opinion on the matter.
There is some overlap between Performance and Deception, e.g. an actor is one who performs through elaborate deception. However, I think performing involves emoting, whereas bluffing in a card game is more about hiding emotions, and is more appropriately a Deception check. But if the player makes a good case for using Performance, then why not?
An actor with high performance will produce an entertaining character, one with high deception will produce a believable character. Being an entertaining character while trying to deceive is hit or miss, better represented by a deception roll, likewise for being believable while trying to entertain.
Disclaimer: I've only been a part of 1 campaign and 1-2 1 shots total and never been a DM so take this as you will.
If they're playing a card game, have them specify the type of game. A game like poker or blackjack has more skill than say "whoever gets the high-card wins".
For games requiring more skill such as a Variation of poker or Blackjack (think Cris-cross, Hold'em, 5/7 card stud/draw, Crows' Nest ect...) I'd say roll an Int/Insight check, because you're playing the other players as much as you're playing the game. Int covers the game/making the most out of what you have portion while insight covers how well you bluff/read the other players reaction to their hands and their reaction to what's going on in the game.
If any player tries to cheat, then have them roll a Attribute/Sleight-of-hand or Attribute/Deception depending on whether or not they're just trying to do it quick'n'quiet or use some sort of distraction and make them roll it against a Wisdom/insight or perception check OR use passive perception (whichever is higher). If the cheater succeeds, they win the game. If the cheater fails then each character who was capable of catching the cheater in the act is made aware of the cheating and, possibly how the cheating happened. If they choose to expose the cheater then and there, then the cheater is at the mercy of the party (DM then decides about additional rolling, but personally I'd say that for most times you're dividing loot, the cheater either gets away with it or had better hope their party is in a forgiving mood).
If the game however is "high-card wins" then everyone participating rolls a straight D-12+1 (13 cards per suit with an ace being either high or low, and this accounts for all 13 cards either way). If two players both draw high-card (i.e. party of 4 and the resulting draws are "6, 3, 9, 9" then the players who drew highest shuffle the cards back into the deck and repeat until a winner is determined. Cheating is not allowed in high-card but if DM allows it, then follow rules for that as written above. Cheater either wins OR gets exposed to whomever witnessed the cheating and auto-fails if exposed by the person(s) who caught the cheater.
I figure this way, it follows a line simple enough to keep the pacing relatively on track yet complex enough to allow for both luck and in-character, show application of skill. If a character is proficient with the gaming-set being used, then they get to add their proficiency bonus to any type of card-game that involves skill (so pretty much everything that isn't High-card). Same w/ cheating/perception checks.
I would just have the players play an actual game of cards or dice or whatever. There are tons of quick little D&D tavern games out there to use.
It's fun thinking about what skills might be relevant to a card game, but for a contest between PCs it seems a little biased. How many times does the barbarian have to lose before he demands arm-wrestling instead of cards? And what happens when the bard refuses? I'd just feel better using a method that put everyone on equal footing.
On the other hand, at times I've enjoyed watching my dumb character get duped and some people might totally be into that. But when it comes to uneven distribution of loot, I have found you need to be careful or you may build up some player resentment without knowing it.
So I was running my first session as DM last week, and the players did something I didn't expect. They wanted to divide an uneven number of loot among themselves, with the winner of a game of cards receiving the largest portion of the treasure. This seemed like something I needed to resolve with a contest, and I was flying off the seat of my pants, so I had them roll a Performance check. At the time, it seemed like the appropriate skill to adjudicate the contest, but after reflecting I wonder if I could've chosen a better one, like just a straight Wisdom or Intelligence check perhaps.
So my questions are, how have players wanted to use the playing cards in your games? How did you resolve them? How would you have resolved my own situation if it had happened in one of your games?
Playing Cards are a gaming tool that characters may be proficient in - depending on the game, I usually get them to use INT for the check, unless they describe how they are trying to use other methods to win.
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I agree that it would be an Intelligence check, applying bonuses for those proficient. I would allow Deception and/or Sleight of Hand checks vs Perception for characters who want to cheat to win.
There is some overlap between Performance and Deception, e.g. an actor is one who performs through elaborate deception. However, I think performing involves emoting, whereas bluffing in a card game is more about hiding emotions, and is more appropriately a Deception check. But if the player makes a good case for using Performance, then why not?
There's not much I can add except that if they did it once they may well do it again. That being said, maybe you and your players should familiarize yourselves with dice poker ala the witcher series. That way, be it a single hand takes all or an ante by ante take, they can really get the card aspect and you can have less ability checks to ask for. The best part is, you can still add checks to go with the dice. Those with proficiency with card games can roll an extra dice and drop one of their choice, as can those that roll a high enough slight of hand.
#OpenDnD. #DnDBegone
Honestly? I would ask "what game will you play?" and attempt to replicate it.
Poker? Deuces wild? Roll 5 D10s, Re-roll 1x. Standard rules apply. If they get a 10, they can roll a D4 and put it above the D10 to simulate face cards. Alternately, they could roll 5d10 and 5d4, and use the d4s to represent suits.
Go fish? Each player rolls 5 d10s and keeps them secret. each round, you can alter 1 d10. Guess numbers, take your opponents dice to make pairs. First person out of dice wins.
Old maid? Each player puts 10 dice (various) in a bag, and the DM adds a big red d20 to one of the bags in secret (you can even roll for which bag you add it to.) The players then take turns pulling dice. If they pull the red one, it goes in their bag, otherwise they can make pairs by sides (d4s pair with d4s, d8s pair with d8s, etc) last one holding the red die loses.
intelligence is used to win a game a skill it is in the description in dndbeyond character creator at the botom
I would just give them cards IRL and have them play.
An actor with high performance will produce an entertaining character, one with high deception will produce a believable character. Being an entertaining character while trying to deceive is hit or miss, better represented by a deception roll, likewise for being believable while trying to entertain.
Disclaimer: I've only been a part of 1 campaign and 1-2 1 shots total and never been a DM so take this as you will.
If they're playing a card game, have them specify the type of game. A game like poker or blackjack has more skill than say "whoever gets the high-card wins".
For games requiring more skill such as a Variation of poker or Blackjack (think Cris-cross, Hold'em, 5/7 card stud/draw, Crows' Nest ect...) I'd say roll an Int/Insight check, because you're playing the other players as much as you're playing the game. Int covers the game/making the most out of what you have portion while insight covers how well you bluff/read the other players reaction to their hands and their reaction to what's going on in the game.
If any player tries to cheat, then have them roll a Attribute/Sleight-of-hand or Attribute/Deception depending on whether or not they're just trying to do it quick'n'quiet or use some sort of distraction and make them roll it against a Wisdom/insight or perception check OR use passive perception (whichever is higher). If the cheater succeeds, they win the game. If the cheater fails then each character who was capable of catching the cheater in the act is made aware of the cheating and, possibly how the cheating happened. If they choose to expose the cheater then and there, then the cheater is at the mercy of the party (DM then decides about additional rolling, but personally I'd say that for most times you're dividing loot, the cheater either gets away with it or had better hope their party is in a forgiving mood).
If the game however is "high-card wins" then everyone participating rolls a straight D-12+1 (13 cards per suit with an ace being either high or low, and this accounts for all 13 cards either way). If two players both draw high-card (i.e. party of 4 and the resulting draws are "6, 3, 9, 9" then the players who drew highest shuffle the cards back into the deck and repeat until a winner is determined. Cheating is not allowed in high-card but if DM allows it, then follow rules for that as written above. Cheater either wins OR gets exposed to whomever witnessed the cheating and auto-fails if exposed by the person(s) who caught the cheater.
I figure this way, it follows a line simple enough to keep the pacing relatively on track yet complex enough to allow for both luck and in-character, show application of skill. If a character is proficient with the gaming-set being used, then they get to add their proficiency bonus to any type of card-game that involves skill (so pretty much everything that isn't High-card). Same w/ cheating/perception checks.
I would just have the players play an actual game of cards or dice or whatever. There are tons of quick little D&D tavern games out there to use.
It's fun thinking about what skills might be relevant to a card game, but for a contest between PCs it seems a little biased. How many times does the barbarian have to lose before he demands arm-wrestling instead of cards? And what happens when the bard refuses? I'd just feel better using a method that put everyone on equal footing.
On the other hand, at times I've enjoyed watching my dumb character get duped and some people might totally be into that. But when it comes to uneven distribution of loot, I have found you need to be careful or you may build up some player resentment without knowing it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm