No, that is not my position. I am just trying to find ways to nerf the subclass to bring it in line with other sorcerer subclasses while keeping its flavor and concept.
If so then here are my suggestions:
Spells: 1st level: swap Charm Person for Dissonant Whispers to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and b/c beholders get a Charm Ray. 5th level: swap Slow for Clairvoyance - avoids duplication of divination stuff with Arcane Eye and mimics the Beholder's Slowing ray. 7th level: swap Stone Shape for Black Tentacles again to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and this time to mimic the Disintegration Ray / Petrification Ray in terms of utility.
Enchanted Vision: Remove sensing magic - that's not a beholder thing and redundant with Detect Magic which Sorcerers can also get.
Vivid Dreams: Remove the familiar, include additional constraints on the item: 1) It must be a non-magical item. 2) It is easily detectable that the item is magically summoned - e.g. emits an aura of conjuration when subject to detect magic or similar abilities. 3) The object must be of a value of no more than 50 gp.
Remember lore-wise if a beholder dreams up another beholder-kin the beholder-kin is generally hostile to the original beholder and they fight to the death. Lore-wise it makes no sense to have a beholder having a pet beholder.
Eye Thief : Remove this. It enables all kinds of weird shananigans and has nothing at all to do with beholders. Eye Rays is the better feature for 6th level.
Eye Rays : Add Wis save for frightened and charmed, Con save for blinded and Str or Dex save for restrained. Replace the 1d8 necrotic damage + healing with 3d6 cold damage for more variety. Specify that it can only be used: "the first time you hit a target with a spell attack roll on a turn" - this encourages them to use eye rays on multiple different targets which is very beholder-like and sync well with EB while also preventing stacking of effects on the same enemy or Nova-ing to blast through legendary resistances.
Many-Eyed Menace : remove the Charisma modifier extra damage (seems out of place here), and instead of a free use of Eye Rays allow them to roll twice on the table and choose the result they want - or let them just choose from the table instead of rolling (maybe specify they can only use each effect once on a turn to continue encouraging them to use different eye rays even when allowed to choose).
Eye of the Beholder : Have it require concentration to maintain the antimagic field.
Reality-Twisting Nightmares: Remove this, see above about beholders having pet beholders is contrary to lore.
Spells: 1st level: swap Charm Person for Dissonant Whispers to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and b/c beholders get a Charm Ray. 5th level: swap Slow for Clairvoyance - avoids duplication of divination stuff with Arcane Eye and mimics the Beholder's Slowing ray. 7th level: swap Stone Shape for Black Tentacles again to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and this time to mimic the Disintegration Ray / Petrification Ray in terms of utility.
Swapped out Whispers for Charm Person. I did not swap out the other two as they fit thematically (one of a beholders lair actions is very similar to Evard's black tentacles) and Clairvoyance is not a sorcerer spell, therefore I have to include it in the subclass spell list.
Enchanted Vision: Remove sensing magic - that's not a beholder thing and redundant with Detect Magic which Sorcerers can also get.
Removed the Detect Magic effect.
Vivid Dreams: Remove the familiar, include additional constraints on the item: 1) It must be a non-magical item. 2) It is easily detectable that the item is magically summoned - e.g. emits an aura of conjuration when subject to detect magic or similar abilities. 3) The object must be of a value of no more than 50 gp.
Added the 50 GP limit and stated that it is mundane even if it looks like a magical item. That was my intent all the time :-)
Eye Thief : Remove this. It enables all kinds of weird shananigans and has nothing at all to do with beholders. Eye Rays is the better feature for 6th level.
I want players to be creative with it. It is related to beholders, a lot indeed. It is one of Belashyrra's features. And it is a cool one that makes the sorcerer more than just a(n eldritch) blaster. I am not going to remove it.
Eye Rays : Add Wis save for frightened and charmed, Con save for blinded and Str or Dex save for restrained. Replace the 1d8 necrotic damage + healing with 3d6 cold damage for more variety. Specify that it can only be used: "the first time you hit a target with a spell attack roll on a turn" - this encourages them to use eye rays on multiple different targets which is very beholder-like and sync well with EB while also preventing stacking of effects on the same enemy or Nova-ing to blast through legendary resistances.
Beholders are not forced to split their eye rays up. Not sure about the exact wording here without the ability becoming too wordy. For now I left it as it is. Also, as I already stated, I believe a saving throw would be overkill considering the randomness of this ability. Without the randomness, a saving throw would be appropriate just like how Battle Master maneuvers and smite spells work.
Many-Eyed Menace : remove the Charisma modifier extra damage (seems out of place here), and instead of a free use of Eye Rays allow them to roll twice on the table and choose the result they want - or let them just choose from the table instead of rolling (maybe specify they can only use each effect once on a turn to continue encouraging them to use different eye rays even when allowed to choose).
Removed the damage bonus and free eye ray usage. I don't think rolling twice or even choosing without rolling at all is good here. I originally had rolling twice here, but it was deemed to be too strong. Choosing without rolling defeats the purpose of a random feature in my opinion. Instead I added a new ribbon ability: staying conscious while sleeping due to some eyes always staying open (effectively making them immune to being ambushed during sleep) and being immune to being put to sleep against one's will (pretty much like the elven racial feature fey ancestry/trance. Also renamed the feature.
Eye of the Beholder : Have it require concentration to maintain the antimagic field.
Disagree here. It would make the feature much worse than the Antimagic Field spell. It already is quite limited as of now. If you have ever played as a beholder or fought one, you will know how limited in terms of effectiveness the field outside of tailor-made lair structures is :-) It is fairly easy to move out of the cone and the sorcerer themselves is vulnerable from all sides to magic besides the one the cone faces to.
Also removed the Reality-Twisting Nightmares feature. I am considering some scaling for the Vivid Dream feature as a replacement or maybe the dreams mutating a creature that rests close to the sorcerer, giving them limited eye powers for some time (mostly perception proficiency, darkvision and maybe the sorcerer can cast their spells through their eyes as if they had used Eye Thief or something like that?
Even with the cone requiring concentration it's better than the Antimagic Field spell since you have the option to exclude yourself from the effects (leaving you free to remain a full caster) while your allies who rely less on magic are completely protected. The range is bigger too, meaning you can hide and still project the cone onto your allies rather than being forced to stand right up with them. Antimagic Field isn't particularly good in combat because it makes the caster completely useless for anything else, it is mainly an out-of-combat spell for e.g. walking through an magically trapped dungeon, preventing yourself from being surprised and nova-ed by an enemy caster, or escaping/surviving some kind of crazy magical catastrophe.
In contrast with the cone, the sorcerer can use tons of other options to hide or protect themselves while still being completely effective as a caster, while their martial buddies jump in and out of the cone to blast or be protected. I would take the cone over the field 9 times out of 10 even if the cone required concentration. Of course you'd never want to turn the cone on enemies b/c they'll just step out of it, a beholder's cone is only decent battlefield control b/c it is so large they can make it impossible to escape from it depending on the map. The way to use it is as a buff to your allies. You set it up, allies stand inside it when it isn't their turn, step out on their turn to cast spells or shoot bows, then step back into it, making themselves immune to all magic without hindering them from using magic themselves.
It is a powerful, feature, yes. But I am not going to nerf level 18 further after removing the other feature. There is a point where nerfing a feature further removes the class's or at least the feature's speciality and identity - such as changing the cone to be concentration. The sorcerer is a full spellcaster, they are supposed to cast spells, including ones that require concentration. That is what their entire class is about. Taking away from that by forcing concentration on a subclass feature is bad game design in my opinion.
Your described strategy sounds like cool teamplay - which is great to see in a game, I love it! Indeed whenever I write subclasses, I think a lot about potential teamplay and interactions with other characters. I have performed strategies centered around a beholder's antimagic field too - when the druid shapechanged into one and focused the cone onto a spellcaster grappled by my fighter, making it impossible for them to escape.
You have to take into account though, characters have limited movement speed and especially martials want to get close and personal, which means they can't remain at the backline inside the cone. 30 feet movement speed, or even 40 for a barbarian or a fighter with mobile/longstrider, is not enough to dance between the cone and melee range. Moreover, the sorcerer is fully exposed while protecting their allies with the cone, they will certainly draw in unwanted attention with that.
Finally, again, we are at level 18 here. Enemies using breath weapons, mind blasts, other dangerous effects that aren't magic and of course simply big, nasty weapon attacks aren't affected by the cone. Enemies we are likely to fight at this level which are most affected by the antimagic cone are spellcasters. Liches, archliches, archmages, dracoliches, the like. They are highly intelligent though, they should know what awaits them. And they tend to know the wish spell. Gaining immunity to a certain spell's effects is one of the uses found in the spell's description. It makes perfect sense for them to wish for an immunity to the effects of antimagic field if they prepare themselves for an attack by an adventuring party with a beholder amongst them.
See, having the answer be "the enemy just makes themselves immune to the feature" doesn't seem like good game design / balance and seems unfun for the player. (Wish is a terrible spell and I hope it gets removed in One D&D) Class features should be balanced so that the DM can allow them to be used to full effect without wrecking the game. Getting or making cover is trivial at high levels - just throw up a Wall of Force around yourself and use the antimagic cone to leave a doorway for allies to pop in and out of.
Enemy spellcasters at high levels will just dispel your concentration spells anyway so I don't see why using your concentration is such a big deal. Plus there are tons of spells that don't require concentration.
Yes we are at level 18, so any enemy that isn't wielding Counterspell and Dispel Magic is toast - sealed up inside a Forcecage, trapped in a Maze or stuck in an endless Irresistible Dance. Or maybe the game is already utterly broken b/c the wizard has infinite simulacrums using the simulacrum + Wish combo (I hate Wish so much!).
(I think the submitting period ended at midnight last night EST.)
I believe it did, that’s why I’m now stuck waiting until voting is concluded to release v.1.0.1 of my Beholder warlock patron subclass to fix the minor formatting inconsistencies and the typo I found. 😒
Finally, again, we are at level 18 here. Enemies using breath weapons, mind blasts, other dangerous effects that aren't magic and of course simply big, nasty weapon attacks aren't affected by the cone. Enemies we are likely to fight at this level which are most affected by the antimagic cone are spellcasters. Liches, archliches, archmages, dracoliches, the like. They are highly intelligent though, they should know what awaits them. And they tend to know the wish spell. Gaining immunity to a certain spell's effects is one of the uses found in the spell's description. It makes perfect sense for them to wish for an immunity to the effects of antimagic field if they prepare themselves for an attack by an adventuring party with a beholder amongst them.
Yeah, no on that wish thing. I would argue that making yourself immune to antimagic wouldn't work because a) antimagic would make your magical antimagic immunity gone and b) it's not really something that affects you so much as it is an environmental effect. Plus, using the second clause of wish so casually is really, really dumb. It means that you're out on a 9th level slot, that your strength is 3, that there's a 33% chance you've wished your last wish, and (perhaps most importantly for casters) that you take 1d10 damager per level of spell slot on every spell you cast for the day.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack.
Antimagic field is a spell. And something that has the effect of that spell therefore is magical too. They will suffer wish's side effects, that is right - which means it likely will only be used like that if they see no other way to defeat the party (or if someone else casts the wish, laying off wish fatigue onto them).
I still think the cone is fine as it is now, it does not need concentration. Other casters got antimagic field three levels earlier and all full casters besides clerics can have true beholders as pets (remember that a permanent true polymorph does not require concentration) or turn themselves into true beholders with true polymorph and/or shapechange. An encounter vulnerable to antimagic will be defeated by antimagic if the players are clever.
Sorcerers on the other hand have a weak lineup of high-level spells outside of wish, they can't do anything like that. I don't think the Dreamspawn sorcerer's little 30ft. cone at level 18 is problematic, it is just a relatively strong capstone, better than other weaker capstones.
I think we should end this discussion now, it leads to nowhere due to our different views of the game and probably different experiences with high-level play and DMing. And apparently voting has already started, which I was not aware of when I wrote my last post :-)
True Polymorph requires an equally power creature for it to be cast on. How does a random member of the party have a CR 13 pet to cast True Polymorph on to turn into a beholder??? True Polymorph & Shapechange are vulnerable to : breaking concentration (any big damage effect, any effect that causes incapacitation), dispel magic, and counterspell. The cone you propose is immune to all of those things.
A CR 6 Dusk Hag has a 40% chance to break someone out of a beholder True Polymorph or Shapechange simply by casting Hypnotic Pattern. A CR 2 Quickling has a 60% chance to break someone out of a beholder True Polymorph simply by doing damage with their 3 attacks. These spells aren't nearly as powerful as you think they are!
True Polymorph is unlikely to last more than 2 rounds at in a Tier 4 combat, Shapechange maybe 3 or 4 rounds (b/c you can keep Warcaster benefits).
…I believe it might be worth mentioning that we weren’t supposed to vote on our own entries.
It is mentioned. Both in the first post and in the first page of the poll itself.
Yeah, but I don’t think everyone that voted understood that. I suggest asking them as soon as possible what they voted so that their votes may be removed from their submissions for an accurate survey.
…I believe it might be worth mentioning that we weren’t supposed to vote on our own entries.
It is mentioned. Both in the first post and in the first page of the poll itself.
Yeah, but I don’t think everyone that voted understood that. I suggest asking them as soon as possible what they voted so that their votes may be removed from their submissions for an accurate survey.
How can you tell that someone voted for their own entry? Do you know which users submitted which votes? There are only 4 responses so far while there are 8 different contestants. Its entirely possible (and encouraged) that some of the votes were submitted by people who did not compete, and could therefor vote for all of the entries.
Its too early to tell if any particular entry is getting too many votes, and I am not going to ask every contestant what they voted for. If someone seriously wants to cheat at this competition and skew the results, there are plenty of ways to do that. Ill try to keep an eye out for any obviously disingenuous votes (like those that only give 1s and 5s to all entries), but at the end of the day theres only so much that can be done. I also just dont think the stakes are high enough to merit going over the entire thing with a microscope.
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Four-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I honestly think this whole “don’t vote for yourself” thing is more trouble than it’s worth. Wouldn’t it be easier to not worry about it and just assume everyone gives themselves a 5 and move on? This way, if half the people follow the rules and the other half cheat, you’ll have skewed results. Just allowing people to vote for themselves assuming everyone gives themselves an A+ is simpler. And anyone actually gives themselves a C—, then that’s on them. 🤷♂️
Either that or just make the poll non-anonymous, but even then…. Namean?
Just voted and also decided to provide some written feedback :-)
DM Options:
Avatar of Justice - It seems like this is a slightly modified CR 21 Solar statblock. It is well done and has some interstinga bility, but also nothing really special :-) And I think a little bit weak for CR 24, but as you correctly said in your post back then, it is really difficult to determine CR for these high-level monsters.
Scroll of Binding Accord- I generally like it a lot in terms of mechanics and flavor. What confuses me though is that undead awaken and attack you when you break the contact, considering the item's strong connection to Mechanus. Wouldn't modrons make more sense in place of the undead, culminating in the appearance of a marut if you continue breaking the contact?
The House of Good Judgement- This submission appear to me a bit barebones, although the idea behind it certainly is not bad. Also, players should have a chance to lower the ability check's DC depending on their arguments and evidence in my opinion.
Attorney's Badge - Nice little item here :-) I have a question though: Why does it grant access to Gust of Wind? I don't really associate that spell with attorneys, except that gusts of winds can really mess up documents and folders in your office... What about Guidance, guiding whoever you are defending, Suggestion, Command, Dissonant Whispers (driving someone away with for them incomprehensible law speech) or Thaumaturgy (voice booming loudly when you shout "Objection!") in its place?
Dagger of Pacts - I think this has the potential to be quite broken. The DC can easily reach numbers that are out of reach for even powerful monsters, and having resistance to all damage is a very powerful boon. It is particularly effective in fights with multiple creatures as you can still deal damage to another creature while having a pact with one creature. Also, it allows you to willingly make a pact with an ally like the warding bond spell, with the exception that the other creature can be a beefy barbarian instead of a cleric or paladin and it stacks with an actual warding bond. I feel like at least the DC should be capped for this item instead of scaling with your damage.
The Stone Arbiter - A wellmade encounter! I think a bit of backstory or explanation would be nice to understand why the goddess of thieves is posing as a god of justice here and punishes those who steal the bowl?
Player options:
Surveyor Archetype - I love that interpretation of the category's theme. I found a couple of issues with it mechanically: The 3rd level feature mentions "Ranger spell slots", but these are not a thing in 5e, as there are only "spell slots" independant of classes (except for Pact Magic slots of course). This might lead to the feature becoming more powerful than expected with some multiclasses. On the other hand, I think it could need some more interesting, more "active" 3rd level feature. I also think the mark at 11th level could be a bit cumbersome to track in combat, and the capstone appears too weak to me for a level 15 ability. Also, it mentions prepared spells, but rangers learn their spells in 5e, unless you homebrew it otherwise.
Scopophobia - Great flavor, but unfortunately woefully underpowered. A good idea when balancing spells is looking at other spells that can create similar effects. In this case, the spell fear is a good comparison, which is a 3rd level spell, can affect multiple creatures as it is an AoE and takes their entire action away by forcing them to dash or dodge. Scopophobia should be a 2nd level spell in my opinion, where it works well as a mashup of cause fear and dissonant whispers.
Way of a Thousand Eyes - Monks are the class I have the least experience with, but this seems like a fine subclass to me. My only gripe is that its 6th level feature requires a bonus action, which monks already have enough of; and passive abilities always are 10 + bonus. I think the Foresight spell at level 17 is perfectly fine. I would even consider giving them something else in addition considering Foresight's benefits are redundant with Empty Body in combat against most creatures (and immunity to surprise is covered by their 3rd level feature anyways).
Horrific / Glamorous Appearance - I like the idea behind this one. Not sure about balance though. Especially its upcasting benefits appear quite strong to me. No other spell in the game besides magic jar - which is risky and difficult to set up - can turn a spellcaster into a medusa permanently while keeping their spellcasting. True polymorph would cause them to lose spellcasting, while shapechange lasts for 1 hour only and requires concentration.
Fomorian Knight - It isn't a bad subclass, but also just a reskin of the Rune Knight fighter. I didn't see any real issues with it though :-)
The Beholder - here I had to subtract a few points due to its availability. I have never been a fan of DM's Guild considering most homebrew there is paid and I don't know if it will be good before I pay for it, and even free content requres an account and the entire purchasing process rather than there being a simple PDF or GMBinder link to click on. Also, I felt it was a bit odd that the DM's Guild link provided was an affiliate link instead of a normal link. The actual subclass is very interesting thematically. I would change out some spells, such as find traps; and I think the Death Ray needs to get a buff in some way as right nwo it is considerably weaker than eldritch blast.The free casts of hold monster through its paralyzing eye ray for example are quite a bit stronger than what my Dreamspawn sorcerer can do in my opinion. Also, I am quite curious, it gets the same antimagic cone at level 14 as my Dreamspawn sorcerer at level 18, without concentration and with a similar time limit, but noone called that out as broken?
Dreamspawn Sorcerer- I quite like how it turned out with its last iteration. I think balance-wise it is in a good spot now. Maybe I get an idea for some kind of addition to its dreaming features, that mostly will be a ribbon feature instead of a power increase, then it would be perfect. I like that it promotes a playstyle otherwise rarely seem amongst sorcerers -. single-target blasting and using attack roll spells in general. And I like the amount of potential behind features like Eye Thief with creative players.
Just voted and also decided to provide some written feedback :-)
DM Options:
Avatar of Justice - It seems like this is a slightly modified CR 21 Solar statblock. It is well done and has some interstinga bility, but also nothing really special :-) And I think a little bit weak for CR 24, but as you correctly said in your post back then, it is really difficult to determine CR for these high-level monsters.
Scroll of Binding Accord- I generally like it a lot in terms of mechanics and flavor. What confuses me though is that undead awaken and attack you when you break the contact, considering the item's strong connection to Mechanus. Wouldn't modrons make more sense in place of the undead, culminating in the appearance of a marut if you continue breaking the contact?
The House of Good Judgement- This submission appear to me a bit barebones, although the idea behind it certainly is not bad. Also, players should have a chance to lower the ability check's DC depending on their arguments and evidence in my opinion.
Attorney's Badge - Nice little item here :-) I have a question though: Why does it grant access to Gust of Wind? I don't really associate that spell with attorneys, except that gusts of winds can really mess up documents and folders in your office... What about Guidance, guiding whoever you are defending, Suggestion, Command, Dissonant Whispers (driving someone away with for them incomprehensible law speech) or Thaumaturgy (voice booming loudly when you shout "Objection!") in its place?
Dagger of Pacts - I think this has the potential to be quite broken. The DC can easily reach numbers that are out of reach for even powerful monsters, and having resistance to all damage is a very powerful boon. It is particularly effective in fights with multiple creatures as you can still deal damage to another creature while having a pact with one creature. Also, it allows you to willingly make a pact with an ally like the warding bond spell, with the exception that the other creature can be a beefy barbarian instead of a cleric or paladin and it stacks with an actual warding bond. I feel like at least the DC should be capped for this item instead of scaling with your damage.
The Stone Arbiter - A wellmade encounter! I think a bit of backstory or explanation would be nice to understand why the goddess of thieves is posing as a god of justice here and punishes those who steal the bowl?
Player options:
Surveyor Archetype - I love that interpretation of the category's theme. I found a couple of issues with it mechanically: The 3rd level feature mentions "Ranger spell slots", but these are not a thing in 5e, as there are only "spell slots" independant of classes (except for Pact Magic slots of course). This might lead to the feature becoming more powerful than expected with some multiclasses. On the other hand, I think it could need some more interesting, more "active" 3rd level feature. I also think the mark at 11th level could be a bit cumbersome to track in combat, and the capstone appears too weak to me for a level 15 ability. Also, it mentions prepared spells, but rangers learn their spells in 5e, unless you homebrew it otherwise.
Scopophobia - Great flavor, but unfortunately woefully underpowered. A good idea when balancing spells is looking at other spells that can create similar effects. In this case, the spell fear is a good comparison, which is a 3rd level spell, can affect multiple creatures as it is an AoE and takes their entire action away by forcing them to dash or dodge. Scopophobia should be a 2nd level spell in my opinion, where it works well as a mashup of cause fear and dissonant whispers.
Way of a Thousand Eyes - Monks are the class I have the least experience with, but this seems like a fine subclass to me. My only gripe is that its 6th level feature requires a bonus action, which monks already have enough of; and passive abilities always are 10 + bonus. I think the Foresight spell at level 17 is perfectly fine. I would even consider giving them something else in addition considering Foresight's benefits are redundant with Empty Body in combat against most creatures (and immunity to surprise is covered by their 3rd level feature anyways).
Horrific / Glamorous Appearance - I like the idea behind this one. Not sure about balance though. Especially its upcasting benefits appear quite strong to me. No other spell in the game besides magic jar - which is risky and difficult to set up - can turn a spellcaster into a medusa permanently while keeping their spellcasting. True polymorph would cause them to lose spellcasting, while shapechange lasts for 1 hour only and requires concentration.
Fomorian Knight - It isn't a bad subclass, but also just a reskin of the Rune Knight fighter. I didn't see any real issues with it though :-)
The Beholder - here I had to subtract a few points due to its availability. I have never been a fan of DM's Guild considering most homebrew there is paid and I don't know if it will be good before I pay for it, and even free content requres an account and the entire purchasing process rather than there being a simple PDF or GMBinder link to click on. Also, I felt it was a bit odd that the DM's Guild link provided was an affiliate link instead of a normal link. The actual subclass is very interesting thematically. I would change out some spells, such as find traps; and I think the Death Ray needs to get a buff in some way as right nwo it is considerably weaker than eldritch blast.The free casts of hold monster for example are quite a bit stronger than what my Dreamspawn sorcerer can do in my opinion. Also, I am quite curious, it gets the same antimagic cone at level 14 as my Dreamspawn sorcerer at level 18, without concentration and with a similar time limit, but noone called that out as broken?
Dreamspawn Sorcerer- I quite like how it turned out with its last iteration. I think balance-wise it is in a good spot now. Maybe I get an idea for some kind of addition to its dreaming features, that mostly will be a ribbon feature instead of a power increase, then it would be perfect. I like that it promotes a playstyle otherwise rarely seem amongst sorcerers -. single-target blasting and using attack roll spells in general. And I like the amount of potential behind features like Eye Thief with creative players.
Stone Arbiter: It was meant to be implied that it’s a test of sorts. I didn’t want it to be too detailed in background, so that it could be more setting-agnostic.
Scopophobia: Fair enough. The fact that it only targets one creature should have been enough to tip me off.
Just voted and also decided to provide some written feedback :-)
DM Options:
Avatar of Justice - It seems like this is a slightly modified CR 21 Solar statblock. It is well done and has some interstinga bility, but also nothing really special :-) And I think a little bit weak for CR 24, but as you correctly said in your post back then, it is really difficult to determine CR for these high-level monsters.
Scroll of Binding Accord- I generally like it a lot in terms of mechanics and flavor. What confuses me though is that undead awaken and attack you when you break the contact, considering the item's strong connection to Mechanus. Wouldn't modrons make more sense in place of the undead, culminating in the appearance of a marut if you continue breaking the contact?
The House of Good Judgement- This submission appear to me a bit barebones, although the idea behind it certainly is not bad. Also, players should have a chance to lower the ability check's DC depending on their arguments and evidence in my opinion.
Attorney's Badge - Nice little item here :-) I have a question though: Why does it grant access to Gust of Wind? I don't really associate that spell with attorneys, except that gusts of winds can really mess up documents and folders in your office... What about Guidance, guiding whoever you are defending, Suggestion, Command, Dissonant Whispers (driving someone away with for them incomprehensible law speech) or Thaumaturgy (voice booming loudly when you shout "Objection!") in its place?
Dagger of Pacts - I think this has the potential to be quite broken. The DC can easily reach numbers that are out of reach for even powerful monsters, and having resistance to all damage is a very powerful boon. It is particularly effective in fights with multiple creatures as you can still deal damage to another creature while having a pact with one creature. Also, it allows you to willingly make a pact with an ally like the warding bond spell, with the exception that the other creature can be a beefy barbarian instead of a cleric or paladin and it stacks with an actual warding bond. I feel like at least the DC should be capped for this item instead of scaling with your damage.
The Stone Arbiter - A wellmade encounter! I think a bit of backstory or explanation would be nice to understand why the goddess of thieves is posing as a god of justice here and punishes those who steal the bowl?
Player options:
Surveyor Archetype - I love that interpretation of the category's theme. I found a couple of issues with it mechanically: The 3rd level feature mentions "Ranger spell slots", but these are not a thing in 5e, as there are only "spell slots" independant of classes (except for Pact Magic slots of course). This might lead to the feature becoming more powerful than expected with some multiclasses. On the other hand, I think it could need some more interesting, more "active" 3rd level feature. I also think the mark at 11th level could be a bit cumbersome to track in combat, and the capstone appears too weak to me for a level 15 ability. Also, it mentions prepared spells, but rangers learn their spells in 5e, unless you homebrew it otherwise.
Scopophobia - Great flavor, but unfortunately woefully underpowered. A good idea when balancing spells is looking at other spells that can create similar effects. In this case, the spell fear is a good comparison, which is a 3rd level spell, can affect multiple creatures as it is an AoE and takes their entire action away by forcing them to dash or dodge. Scopophobia should be a 2nd level spell in my opinion, where it works well as a mashup of cause fear and dissonant whispers.
Way of a Thousand Eyes - Monks are the class I have the least experience with, but this seems like a fine subclass to me. My only gripe is that its 6th level feature requires a bonus action, which monks already have enough of; and passive abilities always are 10 + bonus. I think the Foresight spell at level 17 is perfectly fine. I would even consider giving them something else in addition considering Foresight's benefits are redundant with Empty Body in combat against most creatures (and immunity to surprise is covered by their 3rd level feature anyways).
Horrific / Glamorous Appearance - I like the idea behind this one. Not sure about balance though. Especially its upcasting benefits appear quite strong to me. No other spell in the game besides magic jar - which is risky and difficult to set up - can turn a spellcaster into a medusa permanently while keeping their spellcasting. True polymorph would cause them to lose spellcasting, while shapechange lasts for 1 hour only and requires concentration.
Fomorian Knight - It isn't a bad subclass, but also just a reskin of the Rune Knight fighter. I didn't see any real issues with it though :-)
The Beholder - here I had to subtract a few points due to its availability. I have never been a fan of DM's Guild considering most homebrew there is paid and I don't know if it will be good before I pay for it, and even free content requres an account and the entire purchasing process rather than there being a simple PDF or GMBinder link to click on. Also, I felt it was a bit odd that the DM's Guild link provided was an affiliate link instead of a normal link. The actual subclass is very interesting thematically. I would change out some spells, such as find traps; and I think the Death Ray needs to get a buff in some way as right nwo it is considerably weaker than eldritch blast.The free casts of hold monster for example are quite a bit stronger than what my Dreamspawn sorcerer can do in my opinion. Also, I am quite curious, it gets the same antimagic cone at level 14 as my Dreamspawn sorcerer at level 18, without concentration and with a similar time limit, but noone called that out as broken?
Dreamspawn Sorcerer- I quite like how it turned out with its last iteration. I think balance-wise it is in a good spot now. Maybe I get an idea for some kind of addition to its dreaming features, that mostly will be a ribbon feature instead of a power increase, then it would be perfect. I like that it promotes a playstyle otherwise rarely seem amongst sorcerers -. single-target blasting and using attack roll spells in general. And I like the amount of potential behind features like Eye Thief with creative players.
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If so then here are my suggestions:
Spells:
1st level: swap Charm Person for Dissonant Whispers to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and b/c beholders get a Charm Ray.
5th level: swap Slow for Clairvoyance - avoids duplication of divination stuff with Arcane Eye and mimics the Beholder's Slowing ray.
7th level: swap Stone Shape for Black Tentacles again to make it more distinct from Aberrant Mind and this time to mimic the Disintegration Ray / Petrification Ray in terms of utility.
Enchanted Vision:
Remove sensing magic - that's not a beholder thing and redundant with Detect Magic which Sorcerers can also get.
Vivid Dreams: Remove the familiar, include additional constraints on the item:
1) It must be a non-magical item.
2) It is easily detectable that the item is magically summoned - e.g. emits an aura of conjuration when subject to detect magic or similar abilities.
3) The object must be of a value of no more than 50 gp.
Remember lore-wise if a beholder dreams up another beholder-kin the beholder-kin is generally hostile to the original beholder and they fight to the death. Lore-wise it makes no sense to have a beholder having a pet beholder.
Eye Thief : Remove this. It enables all kinds of weird shananigans and has nothing at all to do with beholders. Eye Rays is the better feature for 6th level.
Eye Rays : Add Wis save for frightened and charmed, Con save for blinded and Str or Dex save for restrained. Replace the 1d8 necrotic damage + healing with 3d6 cold damage for more variety. Specify that it can only be used: "the first time you hit a target with a spell attack roll on a turn" - this encourages them to use eye rays on multiple different targets which is very beholder-like and sync well with EB while also preventing stacking of effects on the same enemy or Nova-ing to blast through legendary resistances.
Many-Eyed Menace : remove the Charisma modifier extra damage (seems out of place here), and instead of a free use of Eye Rays allow them to roll twice on the table and choose the result they want - or let them just choose from the table instead of rolling (maybe specify they can only use each effect once on a turn to continue encouraging them to use different eye rays even when allowed to choose).
Eye of the Beholder : Have it require concentration to maintain the antimagic field.
Reality-Twisting Nightmares: Remove this, see above about beholders having pet beholders is contrary to lore.
Here's my new revision: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-NNmVyWMtrwON22H9n9K
Swapped out Whispers for Charm Person. I did not swap out the other two as they fit thematically (one of a beholders lair actions is very similar to Evard's black tentacles) and Clairvoyance is not a sorcerer spell, therefore I have to include it in the subclass spell list.
Removed the Detect Magic effect.
Added the 50 GP limit and stated that it is mundane even if it looks like a magical item. That was my intent all the time :-)
I want players to be creative with it. It is related to beholders, a lot indeed. It is one of Belashyrra's features. And it is a cool one that makes the sorcerer more than just a(n eldritch) blaster. I am not going to remove it.
Beholders are not forced to split their eye rays up. Not sure about the exact wording here without the ability becoming too wordy. For now I left it as it is. Also, as I already stated, I believe a saving throw would be overkill considering the randomness of this ability. Without the randomness, a saving throw would be appropriate just like how Battle Master maneuvers and smite spells work.
Removed the damage bonus and free eye ray usage. I don't think rolling twice or even choosing without rolling at all is good here. I originally had rolling twice here, but it was deemed to be too strong. Choosing without rolling defeats the purpose of a random feature in my opinion. Instead I added a new ribbon ability: staying conscious while sleeping due to some eyes always staying open (effectively making them immune to being ambushed during sleep) and being immune to being put to sleep against one's will (pretty much like the elven racial feature fey ancestry/trance. Also renamed the feature.
Disagree here. It would make the feature much worse than the Antimagic Field spell. It already is quite limited as of now. If you have ever played as a beholder or fought one, you will know how limited in terms of effectiveness the field outside of tailor-made lair structures is :-) It is fairly easy to move out of the cone and the sorcerer themselves is vulnerable from all sides to magic besides the one the cone faces to.
Also removed the Reality-Twisting Nightmares feature. I am considering some scaling for the Vivid Dream feature as a replacement or maybe the dreams mutating a creature that rests close to the sorcerer, giving them limited eye powers for some time (mostly perception proficiency, darkvision and maybe the sorcerer can cast their spells through their eyes as if they had used Eye Thief or something like that?
Even with the cone requiring concentration it's better than the Antimagic Field spell since you have the option to exclude yourself from the effects (leaving you free to remain a full caster) while your allies who rely less on magic are completely protected. The range is bigger too, meaning you can hide and still project the cone onto your allies rather than being forced to stand right up with them. Antimagic Field isn't particularly good in combat because it makes the caster completely useless for anything else, it is mainly an out-of-combat spell for e.g. walking through an magically trapped dungeon, preventing yourself from being surprised and nova-ed by an enemy caster, or escaping/surviving some kind of crazy magical catastrophe.
In contrast with the cone, the sorcerer can use tons of other options to hide or protect themselves while still being completely effective as a caster, while their martial buddies jump in and out of the cone to blast or be protected. I would take the cone over the field 9 times out of 10 even if the cone required concentration. Of course you'd never want to turn the cone on enemies b/c they'll just step out of it, a beholder's cone is only decent battlefield control b/c it is so large they can make it impossible to escape from it depending on the map. The way to use it is as a buff to your allies. You set it up, allies stand inside it when it isn't their turn, step out on their turn to cast spells or shoot bows, then step back into it, making themselves immune to all magic without hindering them from using magic themselves.
(I think the submitting period ended at midnight last night EST.)
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Be not afraid.
Wait. Actually, be very afraid.
It is a powerful, feature, yes. But I am not going to nerf level 18 further after removing the other feature. There is a point where nerfing a feature further removes the class's or at least the feature's speciality and identity - such as changing the cone to be concentration. The sorcerer is a full spellcaster, they are supposed to cast spells, including ones that require concentration. That is what their entire class is about. Taking away from that by forcing concentration on a subclass feature is bad game design in my opinion.
Your described strategy sounds like cool teamplay - which is great to see in a game, I love it! Indeed whenever I write subclasses, I think a lot about potential teamplay and interactions with other characters. I have performed strategies centered around a beholder's antimagic field too - when the druid shapechanged into one and focused the cone onto a spellcaster grappled by my fighter, making it impossible for them to escape.
You have to take into account though, characters have limited movement speed and especially martials want to get close and personal, which means they can't remain at the backline inside the cone. 30 feet movement speed, or even 40 for a barbarian or a fighter with mobile/longstrider, is not enough to dance between the cone and melee range. Moreover, the sorcerer is fully exposed while protecting their allies with the cone, they will certainly draw in unwanted attention with that.
Finally, again, we are at level 18 here. Enemies using breath weapons, mind blasts, other dangerous effects that aren't magic and of course simply big, nasty weapon attacks aren't affected by the cone. Enemies we are likely to fight at this level which are most affected by the antimagic cone are spellcasters. Liches, archliches, archmages, dracoliches, the like. They are highly intelligent though, they should know what awaits them. And they tend to know the wish spell. Gaining immunity to a certain spell's effects is one of the uses found in the spell's description. It makes perfect sense for them to wish for an immunity to the effects of antimagic field if they prepare themselves for an attack by an adventuring party with a beholder amongst them.
See, having the answer be "the enemy just makes themselves immune to the feature" doesn't seem like good game design / balance and seems unfun for the player. (Wish is a terrible spell and I hope it gets removed in One D&D) Class features should be balanced so that the DM can allow them to be used to full effect without wrecking the game. Getting or making cover is trivial at high levels - just throw up a Wall of Force around yourself and use the antimagic cone to leave a doorway for allies to pop in and out of.
Enemy spellcasters at high levels will just dispel your concentration spells anyway so I don't see why using your concentration is such a big deal. Plus there are tons of spells that don't require concentration.
Yes we are at level 18, so any enemy that isn't wielding Counterspell and Dispel Magic is toast - sealed up inside a Forcecage, trapped in a Maze or stuck in an endless Irresistible Dance. Or maybe the game is already utterly broken b/c the wizard has infinite simulacrums using the simulacrum + Wish combo (I hate Wish so much!).
I believe it did, that’s why I’m now stuck waiting until voting is concluded to release v.1.0.1 of my Beholder warlock patron subclass to fix the minor formatting inconsistencies and the typo I found. 😒
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Yeah, no on that wish thing. I would argue that making yourself immune to antimagic wouldn't work because a) antimagic would make your magical antimagic immunity gone and b) it's not really something that affects you so much as it is an environmental effect. Plus, using the second clause of wish so casually is really, really dumb. It means that you're out on a 9th level slot, that your strength is 3, that there's a 33% chance you've wished your last wish, and (perhaps most importantly for casters) that you take 1d10 damager per level of spell slot on every spell you cast for the day.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
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Wish says otherwise:
Antimagic field is a spell. And something that has the effect of that spell therefore is magical too. They will suffer wish's side effects, that is right - which means it likely will only be used like that if they see no other way to defeat the party (or if someone else casts the wish, laying off wish fatigue onto them).
I still think the cone is fine as it is now, it does not need concentration. Other casters got antimagic field three levels earlier and all full casters besides clerics can have true beholders as pets (remember that a permanent true polymorph does not require concentration) or turn themselves into true beholders with true polymorph and/or shapechange. An encounter vulnerable to antimagic will be defeated by antimagic if the players are clever.
Sorcerers on the other hand have a weak lineup of high-level spells outside of wish, they can't do anything like that. I don't think the Dreamspawn sorcerer's little 30ft. cone at level 18 is problematic, it is just a relatively strong capstone, better than other weaker capstones.
I think we should end this discussion now, it leads to nowhere due to our different views of the game and probably different experiences with high-level play and DMing. And apparently voting has already started, which I was not aware of when I wrote my last post :-)
True Polymorph requires an equally power creature for it to be cast on. How does a random member of the party have a CR 13 pet to cast True Polymorph on to turn into a beholder??? True Polymorph & Shapechange are vulnerable to : breaking concentration (any big damage effect, any effect that causes incapacitation), dispel magic, and counterspell. The cone you propose is immune to all of those things.
A CR 6 Dusk Hag has a 40% chance to break someone out of a beholder True Polymorph or Shapechange simply by casting Hypnotic Pattern. A CR 2 Quickling has a 60% chance to break someone out of a beholder True Polymorph simply by doing damage with their 3 attacks. These spells aren't nearly as powerful as you think they are!
True Polymorph is unlikely to last more than 2 rounds at in a Tier 4 combat, Shapechange maybe 3 or 4 rounds (b/c you can keep Warcaster benefits).
Any update on the voting survey?
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It's already out, if that's what you mean.
Here's the post where Kaboom linked the survey.
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HERE.…I believe it might be worth mentioning that we weren’t supposed to vote on our own entries.
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It is mentioned. Both in the first post and in the first page of the poll itself.
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Yeah, but I don’t think everyone that voted understood that. I suggest asking them as soon as possible what they voted so that their votes may be removed from their submissions for an accurate survey.
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How can you tell that someone voted for their own entry? Do you know which users submitted which votes? There are only 4 responses so far while there are 8 different contestants. Its entirely possible (and encouraged) that some of the votes were submitted by people who did not compete, and could therefor vote for all of the entries.
Its too early to tell if any particular entry is getting too many votes, and I am not going to ask every contestant what they voted for. If someone seriously wants to cheat at this competition and skew the results, there are plenty of ways to do that. Ill try to keep an eye out for any obviously disingenuous votes (like those that only give 1s and 5s to all entries), but at the end of the day theres only so much that can be done. I also just dont think the stakes are high enough to merit going over the entire thing with a microscope.
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I honestly think this whole “don’t vote for yourself” thing is more trouble than it’s worth. Wouldn’t it be easier to not worry about it and just assume everyone gives themselves a 5 and move on? This way, if half the people follow the rules and the other half cheat, you’ll have skewed results. Just allowing people to vote for themselves assuming everyone gives themselves an A+ is simpler. And anyone actually gives themselves a C—, then that’s on them. 🤷♂️
Either that or just make the poll non-anonymous, but even then…. Namean?
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Just voted and also decided to provide some written feedback :-)
DM Options:
Player options:
The actual subclass is very interesting thematically. I would change out some spells, such as find traps; and I think the Death Ray needs to get a buff in some way as right nwo it is considerably weaker than eldritch blast.The free casts of hold monster through its paralyzing eye ray for example are quite a bit stronger than what my Dreamspawn sorcerer can do in my opinion. Also, I am quite curious, it gets the same antimagic cone at level 14 as my Dreamspawn sorcerer at level 18, without concentration and with a similar time limit, but noone called that out as broken?
Stone Arbiter: It was meant to be implied that it’s a test of sorts. I didn’t want it to be too detailed in background, so that it could be more setting-agnostic.
Scopophobia: Fair enough. The fact that it only targets one creature should have been enough to tip me off.
Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXIX?
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I assumed gust of wind on the Attorney's Badge was a joke about hot air and windbags
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)