Maybe Wish should be a class feature rather than a spell. It would come in at level 19 for mages (Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard). Wish would effectively be The 10th level spell, but somewhat separate in the same sense that cantrips are often separated from levelled spells.
Each time a mage casts a Wish, they can either duplicate a spell with no issues, or carefully word a custom one. If they make a custom Wish, it is at risk of burning out as described in the current spell. If it does burn out, the mage would need to research it again, with all the time, material, and special* costs that would normally entail.
By making Wish a class feature, it's almost entirely limited to single-class, full-caster mages, and the 'Simulacrum Wish Dummy' loophole is closed. There could be other capstone features for mages to choose from, but Wish should be a popular one (at least aspirationally, unless WotC somehow makes the late game playable in the next iteration).
*As determined by the DM. Maybe it requires a special arcane focus which crumbles to ash when the spell burnout occurs.
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"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
It seems to me like this would actually make Wish easier to exploit. I think right off the bat, the ability to re-learn Wish after losing the ability to cast it is a huge boost. Perhaps most importantly... one of the limitations of a Simulacrum is that they can't regain spell slots. If you create a Simulacrum and you have access to Wish, the Simulacrum can cast it once and only once. However, if it's a class feature, the Simulacrum can just take a long rest and cast it again, since it's not cast using a spell slot.
Although to be fair, the recent OneD&D playtest has experimented with replacing the Cleric's Divine Intervention with Wish, so there's some interest from the developers in a similar mechanic, evne if it's for a completely different class than the ones you mentioned.
Although to be fair, the recent OneD&D playtest has experimented with replacing the Cleric's Divine Intervention with Wish, so there's some interest from the developers in a similar mechanic, evne if it's for a completely different class than the ones you mentioned.
Yeah, my first thought was "this is basically Divine Intervention with more explicit guidelines."
I think this would tread on Clerics a bit much, the same way I feel like turning DI into Wish also muddles the classes a bit. Even if they are very similar features in how they work, it's still important that they feel different IMO.
Learning a new version of Wish could be dropped, but the Simulacrum exploit is that the wizard never casts Wish themselves, and just makes a series of expendable simulacra to do it. I would think researching a new version would be more costly in time and money, plus there’s a built-in quest hook.
The A5e version of Simulacrum just closes the loophole by making the simulacrum unable to cast spells of 7th level or higher. In the case of Wish as class feature, a simulacrum just wouldn’t inherit class features beyond 17th level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
Although to be fair, the recent OneD&D playtest has experimented with replacing the Cleric's Divine Intervention with Wish, so there's some interest from the developers in a similar mechanic, evne if it's for a completely different class than the ones you mentioned.
Yeah, my first thought was "this is basically Divine Intervention with more explicit guidelines."
I think this would tread on Clerics a bit much, the same way I feel like turning DI into Wish also muddles the classes a bit. Even if they are very similar features in how they work, it's still important that they feel different IMO.
If I recall, clerics in 3e and 3.5 got Miracle, which was essentially divine-caster Wish. In 5e it looks like Divine Intervention replaced Miracle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
*As determined by the DM. Maybe it requires a special arcane focus which crumbles to ash when the spell burnout occurs.
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
Backgrounds • Feats • Magic Items • Monsters •
Ancestries• Spells •SubclassesIt seems to me like this would actually make Wish easier to exploit. I think right off the bat, the ability to re-learn Wish after losing the ability to cast it is a huge boost. Perhaps most importantly... one of the limitations of a Simulacrum is that they can't regain spell slots. If you create a Simulacrum and you have access to Wish, the Simulacrum can cast it once and only once. However, if it's a class feature, the Simulacrum can just take a long rest and cast it again, since it's not cast using a spell slot.
Although to be fair, the recent OneD&D playtest has experimented with replacing the Cleric's Divine Intervention with Wish, so there's some interest from the developers in a similar mechanic, evne if it's for a completely different class than the ones you mentioned.
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Yeah, my first thought was "this is basically Divine Intervention with more explicit guidelines."
I think this would tread on Clerics a bit much, the same way I feel like turning DI into Wish also muddles the classes a bit. Even if they are very similar features in how they work, it's still important that they feel different IMO.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Learning a new version of Wish could be dropped, but the Simulacrum exploit is that the wizard never casts Wish themselves, and just makes a series of expendable simulacra to do it. I would think researching a new version would be more costly in time and money, plus there’s a built-in quest hook.
The A5e version of Simulacrum just closes the loophole by making the simulacrum unable to cast spells of 7th level or higher. In the case of Wish as class feature, a simulacrum just wouldn’t inherit class features beyond 17th level.
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
Backgrounds • Feats • Magic Items • Monsters •
Ancestries• Spells •SubclassesIf I recall, clerics in 3e and 3.5 got Miracle, which was essentially divine-caster Wish. In 5e it looks like Divine Intervention replaced Miracle.
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
Backgrounds • Feats • Magic Items • Monsters •
Ancestries• Spells •Subclasses