Symbol and Glyph of Warding both state "The glyph is nearly invisible, requiring an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC to find it."
The spells also give examples on what triggers the glyph and one example is "For glyphs inscribed within an object, the most common triggers include opening that object, approaching within a certain distance of the object, or seeing or reading the glyph."
If I were to inscribe a glyph on the inside of a book and the trigger was opening the book to that page, or if the trigger were seeing/reading the glyph would it make sense to have the player make the Investigation check? They have to open the book or see or read the glyph in order to find it and at that point the trigger is met. And even if they found it, the trigger again is met, so the effect will go off. Is this a cheeky way to get around being able to find the glyph?
Where it gets cheeky is when you start exploring the consequences of the listed contraints on the glyph's omniscience - it can detect any creature at any range with arbitrary constraints based on physical characteristics, type, and alignment, and it knows when it has been seen or read, by anything. That's ridiculous.
An example of ridiculousness is that in any society where 3rd level spells are commonplace, such as Eberron, you should reasonably expect civilized society to at least banish all evil people from all cities, using glyph of warding to determine who to banish - execution would be better, culturally speaking, but since you'll end up with only good and neutral civic leaders, they might be squeamish about that.
An example of cheekiness is using the glyph to check physical characteristics which are generally impossible to check without a higher level spell, like age or, often, lineage - a caster doesn't need to understand DNA to understand that glyphs of warding can absolutely be told to only react to the presence of someone closely related to the current monarch; the spell automatically knows what you mean (e.g. you don't have to explain the concepts of red or hair to have a glyph that only murders redheads) and takes care of the details as it sees fit.
Yes, that would prevent early detection of the glyph through Investigation. You could still find it through something like Detect Magic though, and keep in mind if the book is moved 10 feet the spell ends. So it's a bit of a gamble to put it inside a portable object.
What happens if I put a couple, or even half a dozen, glyphs in a book and put that book in a bag of holding.
If I take the bag of holding and move more than 10 feet, maybe miles even. Do the glyphs trigger? Or wait for their trigger since inside the bag of holding the book hasn't moved an inch?
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
RAW a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check let you finds a Glyph of Warding. How you come to find it can happen in various ways, as explained in the Investigation skill.
Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse.
Also, unless you take the Search action you are left with your passive Perception.
You need to take the Search action on your turn to make a Perception or Investigation check.
Most players and DM skim over this part and go directly to making the check (to save time, I guess) and sometimes even forget it takes an action and allow the player to still take an action.
This means sometimes players get to take 2 actions without using an action surge. So long as 1 of them is the Perception or Investigation check.
And unless a player specifically says they are doing something to get that Perception or Investigation check it shouldn't be handed out for free.
Just because it requires a check doesn't mean you get one for free. If you use your action, fine. But also think about if you're going to do this with every single thing in existence that can be opened?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
RAW a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check let you finds a Glyph of Warding. How you come to find it can happen in various ways, as explained in the Investigation skill.
Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse.
Let's say there was a door hidden behind a tapestry. I could see the narrative of a successful Investigation check being "You can see a breeze coming from behind the tapestry but the room you are in has no windows." The player pulls back the tapestry and finds the hidden door. How someone could find an invisible glyph inside of a book that is opaque makes no sense to me.
@Brian_Avery - In my experience, most of the time players aren't making Perception or Investigation checks during combat so actions don't really matter.
RAW a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check let you finds a Glyph of Warding. How you come to find it can happen in various ways, as explained in the Investigation skill.
Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse.
How someone could find an invisible glyph inside of a book that is opaque makes no sense to me.
NEARLY invisible means it's not and the spell specifically state it can be found with an Intelligence (Investigate) check. In your logic, a Glyph would never be found if it was invisible. It's up to Dm to determine how it's found i guess, wether its detected a faint glow coming from the book page, or deduced there's a glyph by other mean.
Here is an example from Tales of Yawning Portal -- Sunless Citadel adventure, where a Glyph is applied to a book.
Investigating
In his study, Belak stores seasonal records of growth, precipitation, harvests, and similar notes for the surrounding lands for the last dozen years. One interesting tome titled (in Draconic) Treasures of the Fire Lords has a glyph of warding spell with an explosive runes effect on it. The glyph is on the second page, and it’s triggered when someone opens to that page. Otherwise, the book is blank.
If the glyph is triggered, it erupts with magical energy in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on the book. The sphere spreads around corners. Each creature in the area must make a DC 12 Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 22 (5d8) cold damage on a failed saving throw, or half as much damage on a successful one. The cold doesn’t damage the other works here.
What happens if I put a couple, or even half a dozen, glyphs in a book and put that book in a bag of holding.
If I take the bag of holding and move more than 10 feet, maybe miles even. Do the glyphs trigger? Or wait for their trigger since inside the bag of holding the book hasn't moved an inch?
Read the descriptions. They would be more than 10 feet away from where you cast the spell. These are not meant to be Spells In A Can that you can whip out and trigger anywhere.
The part where things get gray is your frame of reference. If you cast it on the door of a large ship and the ship starts moving, does it fail? Technically, yes. But some DMs will allow for it being in a fixed position on a much larger structure.
I think it's fine to say Investigation doesn't work if the glyph is blocked from view. Investigation should not be Detect Magic For Free. But on the other hand, if they hold up the book and say specifically, "I'm inspecting this book for magical traps" and they roll well, you should probably allow them to detect it.
Then no matter where you go you haven't moved the book from where you cast the glyph.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Then no matter where you go you haven't moved the book from where you cast the glyph.
As soon as they pull it out of the bag the glyph will fade because it moved an infinite distance from where it was cast (it's on a different plane after all) - certainly more than 10 ft. There's no fudging it. If a glyph moves more than 10 ft - the spell fails.
You could cast it inside the bag and then use it later - still in the bag. But you'd have to climb in and out of the bag and that's no easy feat - definitely not in combat.
Here is an example from Tales of Yawning Portal -- Sunless Citadel adventure, where a Glyph is applied to a book.
Investigating
In his study, Belak stores seasonal records of growth, precipitation, harvests, and similar notes for the surrounding lands for the last dozen years. One interesting tome titled (in Draconic) Treasures of the Fire Lords has a glyph of warding spell with an explosive runes effect on it. The glyph is on the second page, and it’s triggered when someone opens to that page. Otherwise, the book is blank.
If the glyph is triggered, it erupts with magical energy in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on the book. The sphere spreads around corners. Each creature in the area must make a DC 12 Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 22 (5d8) cold damage on a failed saving throw, or half as much damage on a successful one. The cold doesn’t damage the other works here.
This is essentially how I picture the spell working if the glyph is placed inside a book. I just don't know if there is any way that a player could find the glyph with a successful Investigation check, or if in this instance a player isn't meant to find the glyph without triggering it. I'm fine if this is a way to ensure the glyph triggers assuming the players don't take the tome 10 feet from its resting place before opening it.
You could cast the glyph inside a portable hole, and when you need the glyph just pop into the hole for a moment.
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A player had an interesting question. They cast a glyph of warding on the desk of a townmaster, they store the spell "Sending" (which is a thirld level spell) in the glyph, but the caster makes themslf the target. So when the townmaster triggers the glyph, a message is sent to the original catser of "help". Its basically a bat-signal so the caster knows when the town needs help. What do you think?
A player had an interesting question. They cast a glyph of warding on the desk of a townmaster, they store the spell "Sending" (which is a thirld level spell) in the glyph, but the caster makes themslf the target. So when the townmaster triggers the glyph, a message is sent to the original catser of "help". Its basically a bat-signal so the caster knows when the town needs help. What do you think?
Unfortunately the Glyph of Warding's Spell Glyph specifically says "If the spell has a target, it targets the creature that triggered the glyph.". So basically the glyph would send a message to the townmaster in that example.
And honestly even if it did work - since the Glyph is single use and costs 200g each time - I'd probably just try to invest in some Sending Stones instead.
Symbol and Glyph of Warding both state "The glyph is nearly invisible, requiring an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC to find it."
The spells also give examples on what triggers the glyph and one example is "For glyphs inscribed within an object, the most common triggers include opening that object, approaching within a certain distance of the object, or seeing or reading the glyph."
If I were to inscribe a glyph on the inside of a book and the trigger was opening the book to that page, or if the trigger were seeing/reading the glyph would it make sense to have the player make the Investigation check? They have to open the book or see or read the glyph in order to find it and at that point the trigger is met. And even if they found it, the trigger again is met, so the effect will go off. Is this a cheeky way to get around being able to find the glyph?
It's not cheeky at all. It's completely fine.
Where it gets cheeky is when you start exploring the consequences of the listed contraints on the glyph's omniscience - it can detect any creature at any range with arbitrary constraints based on physical characteristics, type, and alignment, and it knows when it has been seen or read, by anything. That's ridiculous.
An example of ridiculousness is that in any society where 3rd level spells are commonplace, such as Eberron, you should reasonably expect civilized society to at least banish all evil people from all cities, using glyph of warding to determine who to banish - execution would be better, culturally speaking, but since you'll end up with only good and neutral civic leaders, they might be squeamish about that.
An example of cheekiness is using the glyph to check physical characteristics which are generally impossible to check without a higher level spell, like age or, often, lineage - a caster doesn't need to understand DNA to understand that glyphs of warding can absolutely be told to only react to the presence of someone closely related to the current monarch; the spell automatically knows what you mean (e.g. you don't have to explain the concepts of red or hair to have a glyph that only murders redheads) and takes care of the details as it sees fit.
Yes, that would prevent early detection of the glyph through Investigation. You could still find it through something like Detect Magic though, and keep in mind if the book is moved 10 feet the spell ends. So it's a bit of a gamble to put it inside a portable object.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
What happens if I put a couple, or even half a dozen, glyphs in a book and put that book in a bag of holding.
If I take the bag of holding and move more than 10 feet, maybe miles even. Do the glyphs trigger? Or wait for their trigger since inside the bag of holding the book hasn't moved an inch?
RAW a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check let you finds a Glyph of Warding. How you come to find it can happen in various ways, as explained in the Investigation skill.
Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse.
Also, unless you take the Search action you are left with your passive Perception.
You need to take the Search action on your turn to make a Perception or Investigation check.
Most players and DM skim over this part and go directly to making the check (to save time, I guess) and sometimes even forget it takes an action and allow the player to still take an action.
This means sometimes players get to take 2 actions without using an action surge. So long as 1 of them is the Perception or Investigation check.
And unless a player specifically says they are doing something to get that Perception or Investigation check it shouldn't be handed out for free.
Just because it requires a check doesn't mean you get one for free. If you use your action, fine. But also think about if you're going to do this with every single thing in existence that can be opened?
Let's say there was a door hidden behind a tapestry. I could see the narrative of a successful Investigation check being "You can see a breeze coming from behind the tapestry but the room you are in has no windows." The player pulls back the tapestry and finds the hidden door. How someone could find an invisible glyph inside of a book that is opaque makes no sense to me.
@Brian_Avery - In my experience, most of the time players aren't making Perception or Investigation checks during combat so actions don't really matter.
NEARLY invisible means it's not and the spell specifically state it can be found with an Intelligence (Investigate) check. In your logic, a Glyph would never be found if it was invisible. It's up to Dm to determine how it's found i guess, wether its detected a faint glow coming from the book page, or deduced there's a glyph by other mean.
Here is an example from Tales of Yawning Portal -- Sunless Citadel adventure, where a Glyph is applied to a book.
Read the descriptions. They would be more than 10 feet away from where you cast the spell. These are not meant to be Spells In A Can that you can whip out and trigger anywhere.
The part where things get gray is your frame of reference. If you cast it on the door of a large ship and the ship starts moving, does it fail? Technically, yes. But some DMs will allow for it being in a fixed position on a much larger structure.
I think it's fine to say Investigation doesn't work if the glyph is blocked from view. Investigation should not be Detect Magic For Free. But on the other hand, if they hold up the book and say specifically, "I'm inspecting this book for magical traps" and they roll well, you should probably allow them to detect it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
There's 10 minutes of air in a bag of holding.
What if you go inside and cast it on the book?
Then no matter where you go you haven't moved the book from where you cast the glyph.
As soon as they pull it out of the bag the glyph will fade because it moved an infinite distance from where it was cast (it's on a different plane after all) - certainly more than 10 ft. There's no fudging it. If a glyph moves more than 10 ft - the spell fails.
You could cast it inside the bag and then use it later - still in the bag. But you'd have to climb in and out of the bag and that's no easy feat - definitely not in combat.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
This is essentially how I picture the spell working if the glyph is placed inside a book. I just don't know if there is any way that a player could find the glyph with a successful Investigation check, or if in this instance a player isn't meant to find the glyph without triggering it. I'm fine if this is a way to ensure the glyph triggers assuming the players don't take the tome 10 feet from its resting place before opening it.
You could cast the glyph inside a portable hole, and when you need the glyph just pop into the hole for a moment.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
A player had an interesting question. They cast a glyph of warding on the desk of a townmaster, they store the spell "Sending" (which is a thirld level spell) in the glyph, but the caster makes themslf the target. So when the townmaster triggers the glyph, a message is sent to the original catser of "help". Its basically a bat-signal so the caster knows when the town needs help. What do you think?
Unfortunately the Glyph of Warding's Spell Glyph specifically says "If the spell has a target, it targets the creature that triggered the glyph.". So basically the glyph would send a message to the townmaster in that example.
And honestly even if it did work - since the Glyph is single use and costs 200g each time - I'd probably just try to invest in some Sending Stones instead.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).