I have a player currently looking into attempting an assassination, and one of their plans is to purchase multiple different types of poisons, and using them all on the first attack. How do you rule coating a weapon in multiple poisons?
Multiple attacks, multiple poisons. Though, perhaps let them try a very difficult alchemy check to create a composite of two poisons, if they are proficient in all the requisite areas. (Maybe DC 25. Failure destroys both poisons. 9 or under poisons the player.)
I have a player currently looking into attempting an assassination, and one of their plans is to purchase multiple different types of poisons, and using them all on the first attack. How do you rule coating a weapon in multiple poisons?
There are multiple solutions you can use - depends on how badly you want to penalize the player. I disagree with Saga - if you can physically do it, you can physically do it. The question is, what are the consequences? Here are some options for you:
To point out the elephant in the room, do not under any circumstances let all the poisons just apply at once. That's not how mixing poisons works in any game or in the real world.
Ok, so the first reasonable option is that only the last one to be applied is the one coming in contact, so it's the only one that applies to the victim. This has two sub-options.
Do not let the player "peel" the poison like an onion, so 10 applications and they get 10 sword swings.
Do have all the layers evaporate on the first hit, so the bottom layers were for naught.
Second reasonable option: the poisons work at cross purposes to each other. This has myriad interpretations, like how the DMG discusses mixing potions. Here are some fun options to try out - unlike the above, I'll just skip and not mention the ones I think are bad ideas, to keep things simple.
Combine the lowest DC of any poison in the group with the effect you feel is weakest of any poison in the group.
Invent a new effect (and possibly a new DC) for the poison concoction that you feel is thematically appropriate for your table and your situation. Here are some suggestions:
Anticoagulant: on failed save, there's blood everywhere. This has no mechanical effect on the victim per se, but the assassin and the surroundings are now covered in evidence.
Shiggles: on a failed save, the victim laughs, burps, hiccups, farts, poops, and even pees a little bit, all at once. The smell is atrocious.
Panacea: on a failed save, the victim's sinuses clear up, and both nostrils work at the same time. Their minor aches and pains fade, and they feel peppy and energetic - genuinely speaking, they feel good.
Pain: on a failed save, the wound is incredibly painful. The victim screams at the top of their lungs involuntarily.
Nothing at all: the poisons neutralize each other perfectly.
Rule of Funny: the stabbing victim counts as having taken a dose of antitoxin.
Third reasonable option: a knife can't stay sharp if you coat it in that many coats of paint, even if they're thin coats. Change the knife to deal bludgeoning damage due to how thick the poison is, meaning it can't deliver injury poisons any more.
What if the player poisons multiple weapons or pieces of ammunition and then uses those?
Arrows or darts that are separately poisoned could be used effectively while still having chances to miss on each attempt.
would you let a double bladed scimitar be poisoned with two types? One for each side?
100% yes, that's how poisons work. If you have the poison on hand, you can and should poison your entire quiver. The general problem is the cost of the poison - purple worm poison costs a third again as much as a suit of plate armor per dose!
Of course, it's the nature of poisons that rogues are bad at spamming them, because of their one attack - if you're going to murder someone with carrion crawler mucus weapons, you want a bunch of attacks so at least one gets through hitting and failing the save. Rogues are bad at that. Of course, if you have infinite cash, just dump a bucket of the mucus onto someone. Once you blow past inflicting 20 saves at once, it's easiest to just assume the target is poisoned, and the mucus is only 200 gp per dose for what amounts to DC 13 Constitution save or die (again, usually relying on the attacker to have high attack volume to capitalize on the paralysis before it wears off, but if you can apply so much the victim is trying to shrug off a dozen doses at once, you can just crit them twice every six seconds until they die).
I have a player currently looking into attempting an assassination, and one of their plans is to purchase multiple different types of poisons, and using them all on the first attack. How do you rule coating a weapon in multiple poisons?
There are multiple solutions you can use - depends on how badly you want to penalize the player. I disagree with Saga - if you can physically do it, you can physically do it. The question is, what are the consequences? Here are some options for you:
To point out the elephant in the room, do not under any circumstances let all the poisons just apply at once. That's not how mixing poisons works in any game or in the real world.
Ok, so the first reasonable option is that only the last one to be applied is the one coming in contact, so it's the only one that applies to the victim. This has two sub-options.
Do not let the player "peel" the poison like an onion, so 10 applications and they get 10 sword swings.
Do have all the layers evaporate on the first hit, so the bottom layers were for naught.
Second reasonable option: the poisons work at cross purposes to each other. This has myriad interpretations, like how the DMG discusses mixing potions. Here are some fun options to try out - unlike the above, I'll just skip and not mention the ones I think are bad ideas, to keep things simple.
Combine the lowest DC of any poison in the group with the effect you feel is weakest of any poison in the group.
Invent a new effect (and possibly a new DC) for the poison concoction that you feel is thematically appropriate for your table and your situation. Here are some suggestions:
Anticoagulant: on failed save, there's blood everywhere. This has no mechanical effect on the victim per se, but the assassin and the surroundings are now covered in evidence.
Shiggles: on a failed save, the victim laughs, burps, hiccups, farts, poops, and even pees a little bit, all at once. The smell is atrocious.
Panacea: on a failed save, the victim's sinuses clear up, and both nostrils work at the same time. Their minor aches and pains fade, and they feel peppy and energetic - genuinely speaking, they feel good.
Pain: on a failed save, the wound is incredibly painful. The victim screams at the top of their lungs involuntarily.
Nothing at all: the poisons neutralize each other perfectly.
Rule of Funny: the stabbing victim counts as having taken a dose of antitoxin.
Third reasonable option: a knife can't stay sharp if you coat it in that many coats of paint, even if they're thin coats. Change the knife to deal bludgeoning damage due to how thick the poison is, meaning it can't deliver injury poisons any more.
Half of these is just "you can't" with a whole bunch of extra steps and some Wild Surge level wackiness that you might as well just randomly make up during the combat. Increased complexity does not always result in increased depth.
Poisons are volatile chemicals. When you mix them together in my campaign, they don't work anymore. Same result, but I didn't have to spend an hour coming up with a system to get there.
I would expect multiple layers of poison to wash off previous layers. Like how do you coat a weapon? Pour it on? Wipe it on? Wouldn't rinsing the weapon with water or wiping it with a wet rag remove most of the poison? I'd think so.
Remember you the game has a generic rule about stacking effects. The poisons with the same name (if they happen at the same time) do not stack. If they were dual wielding the effects wouldn't be happening at the same time but it would limit them by the number of attacks they have. Also, I agree with multiple differently named poisons interfering on the same weapon.
Also remember the game has many creatures that are resistant or immune to poison for a reason. if people suspect an assassin with a reputation for poison there should be consequences. Law enforcement with Tressym hunting for the poisoner(or classes with detect poison and disease ). People making pacts with daemons(who are immune) for revenge. look for spells and protections that nullify poisons.
They could even attract the attention of a evil deity of disease and poison. Those deities tend to "Reward" their followers with ironic fates. Meaning the deity might guarantee the assassin will die of their own poison one day or cause them to suffer boils.
Poisons should feel deadly but they also have severe limitations as well. Make the rogue plan ahead and earn those moments where poison works out well. Reward good gameplay/strategy but let the lazy player fall into a trap of their own making.
I have a player currently looking into attempting an assassination, and one of their plans is to purchase multiple different types of poisons, and using them all on the first attack. How do you rule coating a weapon in multiple poisons?
Kieran McMillan
I rule that you can’t.
I'd also rule against it.
Multiple attacks, multiple poisons. Though, perhaps let them try a very difficult alchemy check to create a composite of two poisons, if they are proficient in all the requisite areas. (Maybe DC 25. Failure destroys both poisons. 9 or under poisons the player.)
There are multiple solutions you can use - depends on how badly you want to penalize the player. I disagree with Saga - if you can physically do it, you can physically do it. The question is, what are the consequences? Here are some options for you:
What if the player poisons multiple weapons or pieces of ammunition and then uses those?
Arrows or darts that are separately poisoned could be used effectively while still having chances to miss on each attempt.
would you let a double bladed scimitar be poisoned with two types? One for each side?
100% yes, that's how poisons work. If you have the poison on hand, you can and should poison your entire quiver. The general problem is the cost of the poison - purple worm poison costs a third again as much as a suit of plate armor per dose!
Of course, it's the nature of poisons that rogues are bad at spamming them, because of their one attack - if you're going to murder someone with carrion crawler mucus weapons, you want a bunch of attacks so at least one gets through hitting and failing the save. Rogues are bad at that. Of course, if you have infinite cash, just dump a bucket of the mucus onto someone. Once you blow past inflicting 20 saves at once, it's easiest to just assume the target is poisoned, and the mucus is only 200 gp per dose for what amounts to DC 13 Constitution save or die (again, usually relying on the attacker to have high attack volume to capitalize on the paralysis before it wears off, but if you can apply so much the victim is trying to shrug off a dozen doses at once, you can just crit them twice every six seconds until they die).
Half of these is just "you can't" with a whole bunch of extra steps and some Wild Surge level wackiness that you might as well just randomly make up during the combat. Increased complexity does not always result in increased depth.
Poisons are volatile chemicals. When you mix them together in my campaign, they don't work anymore. Same result, but I didn't have to spend an hour coming up with a system to get there.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I would expect multiple layers of poison to wash off previous layers. Like how do you coat a weapon? Pour it on? Wipe it on? Wouldn't rinsing the weapon with water or wiping it with a wet rag remove most of the poison? I'd think so.
Remember you the game has a generic rule about stacking effects. The poisons with the same name (if they happen at the same time) do not stack. If they were dual wielding the effects wouldn't be happening at the same time but it would limit them by the number of attacks they have. Also, I agree with multiple differently named poisons interfering on the same weapon.
Also remember the game has many creatures that are resistant or immune to poison for a reason. if people suspect an assassin with a reputation for poison there should be consequences. Law enforcement with Tressym hunting for the poisoner(or classes with detect poison and disease ). People making pacts with daemons(who are immune) for revenge. look for spells and protections that nullify poisons.
They could even attract the attention of a evil deity of disease and poison. Those deities tend to "Reward" their followers with ironic fates. Meaning the deity might guarantee the assassin will die of their own poison one day or cause them to suffer boils.
Poisons should feel deadly but they also have severe limitations as well. Make the rogue plan ahead and earn those moments where poison works out well. Reward good gameplay/strategy but let the lazy player fall into a trap of their own making.