Curious on players input on using daggers as a main attack weapon Why would anyone use a dagger for an offhand primary weapon compared to a short sword?
1d4 vs 1d6 damage is an extra pt of damage on average
What would you guys think if daggers had a critical hit ration of 19-20 instead of just 20?
I think it could get them better use. and hitting someone with a dagger or stabbing them for max damage i think fits well.
RP reasons or for characters where the damage die isn't much important (Rouges or Monks for example). And it has the Thrown trait which is a plus over the Short Sword.
I always picture dagger users as rogues, in that case, the dagger is just there as a vehicle for sneak attack, so the 1point of damage you add with a short sword is negligible.
I agree, it’s mostly either RP that a character uses the dagger or a rogue for sneak attack. I don’t see many monks using daggers other than RP, but I haven’t seen many monks so they may be out there more than I think.
I don’t think giving an expanded crit range for weapons is a 5E thing so I would avoid it.
Having a dagger Crit more easily seems reasonable if you're just looking at its damage die in isolation. But expanding its crit range has a much bigger effect when paired with something like a Rogue's sneak attack, or a Paladin's Smite.
All good points. I'm just trying to figure out a good non rp use for a dagger in an offhand vs a shortsword
Why would you need one? Not all weapons are equal nor need they be. Besides, as Transmorpher said, having the Thrown trait gives it some versatility and that's enough.
The ability to throw it is one positive, and being more easily concealed is another. Shortswords are and should be strictly better than daggers in open combat; there's a reason soldiers have never really used daggers as their primary weapons. But there are a lot of situations in which openly wielding a military weapon would be inappropriate.
Daggers lack adequate support and part of that is that thrown weapons in general also lack adequate support, so the dagger's one advantage is not a great one. Thrown magical weapons don't return, so once you get a good dagger, you can't really throw it anymore.
You're not wrong that they're kind of objectively worse than shortswords, and they're not the only weapon that suffers that way. A sourcebook that updates/adds a bunch of weapon stuff, or a revamp in the new PHB is definitely on my wishlist.
There are a couple houserules you can add that IMO even out the playing field a bit:
You can draw a dagger as part of an attack
All magical thrown weapons have the returning property
I wouldn't mess with crits since as mentioned the primary class for these is Rogue and their crit damage has very little to do with their weapon die. Would be a nice feature for a Daggermaster subclass though.
Curious on players input on using daggers as a main attack weapon Why would anyone use a dagger for an offhand primary weapon compared to a short sword?
1d4 vs 1d6 damage is an extra pt of damage on average
What would you guys think if daggers had a critical hit ration of 19-20 instead of just 20?
I think it could get them better use. and hitting someone with a dagger or stabbing them for max damage i think fits well.
Daggers are some of the best weapons in the game, all told. The problem with daggers is that part of what makes them great is their throwability, but 5E has very... challenging rules for throwing (just as it does for dual wielding, and you're specifically asking about dual wielding).
But the fundamental reason to dual wield daggers is if you're reliant on Finesse and you may end up throwing your weapons instead of swinging them in melee. If you're not reliant on Finesse, Hand Axes are the best Light melee weapon in the game.
Do you play with the "one object interaction for free per turn" rule? Or do you get to draw and stow away as many weapons as you please? Because if you're using the rule, then it's useful to have a throwing weapon available, that's all.
But check this out: A shortsword can be a katana, a butcher's cleaver, a sawblade... Even a big dagger.
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Curious on players input on using daggers as a main attack weapon
Why would anyone use a dagger for an offhand primary weapon compared to a short sword?
1d4 vs 1d6 damage is an extra pt of damage on average
What would you guys think if daggers had a critical hit ration of 19-20 instead of just 20?
I think it could get them better use. and hitting someone with a dagger or stabbing them for max damage i think fits well.
RP reasons or for characters where the damage die isn't much important (Rouges or Monks for example). And it has the Thrown trait which is a plus over the Short Sword.
That would quickly become broken tbh.
I always picture dagger users as rogues, in that case, the dagger is just there as a vehicle for sneak attack, so the 1point of damage you add with a short sword is negligible.
I agree, it’s mostly either RP that a character uses the dagger or a rogue for sneak attack. I don’t see many monks using daggers other than RP, but I haven’t seen many monks so they may be out there more than I think.
I don’t think giving an expanded crit range for weapons is a 5E thing so I would avoid it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Having a dagger Crit more easily seems reasonable if you're just looking at its damage die in isolation. But expanding its crit range has a much bigger effect when paired with something like a Rogue's sneak attack, or a Paladin's Smite.
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All good points. I'm just trying to figure out a good non rp use for a dagger in an offhand vs a shortsword
Basically, just the ability to throw it.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Why would you need one? Not all weapons are equal nor need they be. Besides, as Transmorpher said, having the Thrown trait gives it some versatility and that's enough.
The ability to throw it is one positive, and being more easily concealed is another. Shortswords are and should be strictly better than daggers in open combat; there's a reason soldiers have never really used daggers as their primary weapons. But there are a lot of situations in which openly wielding a military weapon would be inappropriate.
Daggers lack adequate support and part of that is that thrown weapons in general also lack adequate support, so the dagger's one advantage is not a great one. Thrown magical weapons don't return, so once you get a good dagger, you can't really throw it anymore.
You're not wrong that they're kind of objectively worse than shortswords, and they're not the only weapon that suffers that way. A sourcebook that updates/adds a bunch of weapon stuff, or a revamp in the new PHB is definitely on my wishlist.
There are a couple houserules you can add that IMO even out the playing field a bit:
I wouldn't mess with crits since as mentioned the primary class for these is Rogue and their crit damage has very little to do with their weapon die. Would be a nice feature for a Daggermaster subclass though.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
A dagger can be concealed.
In a dungron, that's not an issue, but in a marketplace or ball or court it is very useful.
Daggers are some of the best weapons in the game, all told. The problem with daggers is that part of what makes them great is their throwability, but 5E has very... challenging rules for throwing (just as it does for dual wielding, and you're specifically asking about dual wielding).
But the fundamental reason to dual wield daggers is if you're reliant on Finesse and you may end up throwing your weapons instead of swinging them in melee. If you're not reliant on Finesse, Hand Axes are the best Light melee weapon in the game.
Do you play with the "one object interaction for free per turn" rule? Or do you get to draw and stow away as many weapons as you please? Because if you're using the rule, then it's useful to have a throwing weapon available, that's all.
But check this out: A shortsword can be a katana, a butcher's cleaver, a sawblade... Even a big dagger.