heavily obscured area—such as Darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the Blinded condition (see Conditions ) when trying to see something in that area.
Plant overgrowth:
All normal Plants in a 100-foot radius centered on that point become thick and overgrown. A creature moving through the area must spend 4 feet of Movement for every 1 foot it moves.
Should i conclude that overgrown plants are equivalent to dense folliage? I guess my logic here would say that to divide movement by 4, they must be at least as tall as a normal being....therefor result in dense folliage and therefor heavily obscured area
I wouldn't say that to slow you down that much that it would have to be above head height. Thick undergrowth, particularly if you can't see the ground and need to be careful with your footing. DM's call, although I'd consider the default to be what you described.
Even if it was considered lower than head height (I'm assuming that it's the Sunlight Sensitivity), then the obscurity issue should be waived for things that would normally be above the height of the foliage.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
heavily obscured area—such as Darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the Blinded condition (see Conditions ) when trying to see something in that area.
Plant overgrowth:
All normal Plants in a 100-foot radius centered on that point become thick and overgrown. A creature moving through the area must spend 4 feet of Movement for every 1 foot it moves.
Should i conclude that overgrown plants are equivalent to dense folliage? I guess my logic here would say that to divide movement by 4, they must be at least as tall as a normal being....therefor result in dense folliage and therefor heavily obscured area
The spell Plant Growth doesn't say it makes the area heavily obscured so it shouldn't unless the DM decide to rule otherwise.
It may just mean that the foliage overgrow so thick that it impede your movement when walking but is otherwise not tall or dense enought to obscure your vision.
Heavily obscuring an area in a 100 foot radius is a very powerful effect to add to a spell that doesn't specify that effect. I think it could be a good thing to include in a druid's grove or the like where it might make sense that the spell is unusually potent, but not all the time. As Link said, I always pictured it to be knee- or waist-height growth, which is more than enough to drastically impede movement.
Although, to me, it would feel that the spell would be weaker if it would be obscured area because the ennemy would get some cover rather than being at the mercy of flying allies or like me with landstride just moving freely. Just a though here but i'm glad everyone gave their thoughs on this.
RAW, the spell does not create concealment which is a separate mechanical effect. If the spell was intended to create such an easily described mechanical effect it that would be included in the spell description.
That being said, if a player explicitly asks if they can get that effect, it would be a case of the DM making a call on whether the situation is appropriate for the added effect. So the answer is "By RAW, no, but you can always ask your DM and hope they decide it sounds cool."
Given its large radius this is one of those spells where I often tend to prefer ruling it on the basis of what the player's actual intended goal is; for example, if they're not actually using the full radius but just trying to block off the entrance to a cave (like Noksa suggested) then I'd allow concealment on the assumption that they've limited the area and focused the effect on just the cave mouth.
But that's 100% house rule; Rules As Written it's for impeding movement only, and with its huge radius it's a good spell for doing exactly that, but sometimes it's good to give the players leeway as theatre of the mind groups don't always use movement and positioning super well. In such cases I think it's always better to be lenient with how a player can use a spell, so they're encouraged to actually use it at all, or use it more often (rather than axing it in favour of some other spell that everybody takes).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The funny thing here is that i actually asked this question to downplay the usage of Plant Growth which seem to be considered an OP spell.... from what i've read
Why i'm i saying this? Well, i just got access to level 3 spells and i've started to look at them one by one.
Though to take Conjure Barrage thinking it was like World of Warcraft; you shoot an arrow in the air and eventually it divides itself to the point of your choosing, but no no, it doesn't....it splits right away making this kind of useless.
Then you have Fire Arrows, a level 3 concentration spell (really, that needed to be Concentration?!?!) that allows to use 12 pieces of ammunitions which will allow 1D6 extra fire damage to your hit.... and you're like, but I can already do this with Hunter's Mark level 1 spell, sure there is a range of 90 feets to cast and switch to another ennemy, but it can last the whole fight if i'd want to, and both uses Concentration, the fact that it is magic damage is a non factor considering the low ammount of damage
Then you have Lightning Arrows, a level 3 spell, again Concentration spell (why?!?!...anyway), that transform your ammunition in a lightning bolt but now you lose your base ammunication damage and bonuses making it meh.....i'd rather pick Hail of Thorns and allow myself to upcast it....even with the saving throw, my base damage added will make it similar at least. I think there are both sides of the coin here but all in all, it is a level 1 spell that you can upcast up to 5 level above versus a level 3 spell that will then be able to be upcast too....
So it is like, what else is there....cause so far...nothing impressive...it feels more like changing 4 quarters for a dollar and getting screwed because of the change conversion fees (req lvl3 spell instead of lvl1 spell) and down the list you go to Plant Growth which is not even a Concentration (cause frankly every Ranger's fun spell are Concentration and therefor annoying....you can't have Silence or Spike Growth or Fog Clouds or (Darkness - Drow) or whatever while doing some extra damage cause all the extra damage requires concentration spells) where i can enlarge instantaneously a whole area, 100 radius.... 200 diameter... and slow down everybody. I could even double down with Spike Growth basically rendering melee ennemy useless....
Myself, i'll be able to move freely inside that area with Land Stride, and my teamates, well our spell caster can cast Fly on everyone .... so it would be like picking appart the ennemy with range attack and our melee could fly to those that tries to move away from the group or if there is any spell caster anywhere to kill them first...
Sure they could try to cast fireball or some AoE spell to kill the growth and i could cast it a second time...wasting their AoE spells.....and it feels like we will wrecked the whole fight that our GM is preparing showering us with magic item (which i disagree with) because the fight should be pretty impossible with some OP mobs (again which i disagree with, last fight the puppet boss (from the one we are about to meet) attacked 12 times the warrior in the same round due to legendary action...that was not fun....fortunately he barely survived due to his harf-orc trait and ran for his life...well that was it for him, the only thing he did was tank for 2 rounds and fled....good thing he toyed with the boss before engaging while we were clearing the mobs....otherwise he would be stew at this time.......so now the warrior received, among others, a full plate armor +2 with swords 2D6 fire which we were like, that is too OP so he just got one sword instead of two...).... i guess we will see, i've decided to play full Drow anyway...even though Half Elf Drow is way better in just every aspect... figure of speaking (i was allowed to tweak my character since we kind of started a new campaign but based on using our old characters from another campaign that lead nowhere, fun campaign though...we had lots of investigation and interaction with the people from town....not much fight...actually the GM was too kind of letting us "get out of fights" too easily that time arround)
But all in all, i was thinking about it and said to myself, well if the growth is so big that now i have disadvatange to hit or can't hit at all because i can't see them for instance, it makes it more fair in a way... after all, it is not just a big pumpkin (yes its not a plant, making it funny here) that will slow you down to 7.5 feets (almost as large as my tv...kiding) per 6 seconds....if you think about it....to me it feels more like a jungle where you would almost need a machete to make your way through it.... hey maybe it is just because there is lots of spiky vines all over the place generating that movement impaired which could be fair enough too cause otherwise you could trip and harm yourself if you go too fast...but then you could say, can i make an acrobatic check to go faster....lmao.... or the plants are as tall as your waist not allowing you to easily step on them...with lots of plant stem forcing you to slow down....that could make sense
All in all, i'll let the GM use his own instinct on this
I'm guessing based on the spells you listed that you're playing a ranger? If you're looking for an offensive boost in combat, rangers really don't have much: Conjure Animals or Summon Fey are probably your best bets.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Drow Ranger Gloomstalker level 9 indead :) Rolled stats 12-20-14-9-13-12. 75 hp. Yes i had some of the best rolls in the group, it is rarely the case, i can tell you that...but i got lucky there.
I was Half-Elf (+2, +1, +1) with feat (Sharpshooter, Elven Accuracy) and spell (Absorb Element, Hunter's Mark, Zephy Strike, Lesser Restoration, Pass without Trace)
Switching to Drow (+2, +1) with feat(+2 Dex, Sharpshooter) and spell (Absorb Element, Fog Clouds, Hail of Thorns, Pass without Trace, Silence, Plant Growth)
I'm thinking of upcasting Hail of Thorns on my first round as my bonus action to start the fight and making a big splash. After that, i could cast a spell that would help the team (fighter, barbarian, barbarian, paladin, warlock) on my second round (i have 3 Drow spells as well as 3 Gloomstalker spells that i haven't listed)
I'm losing a +1 lowering my WIS stat from 14 to 13 which i counter balanced by moving my dex one point giving up Elven Accuracy, getting Direct Sunlight flaw disadvantage on attack if myself or my target is in direct sunlight and same for perception check, 150 instead of 90 feets Darkvision (applied only to dim light due to hardmode), gaining 1 skill proficiency (used on deception to team up with Disguise Self spell) but perception is flawed, gainning Meditation 4 hours instead of the basic resting 8 hours, gaining 3 spells. But more importantly, i am a full Drow....not some Lineage (bland) Drow or Half-Elf Drow and it is the only reason why i'm making the switch....cause mechanically speaking the Half-Elf Drow is way better.... Planning on getting a +1 feat to Wisdom on level 12 if we ever get there, probably taking back Elven Accuracy although i'm tempted with Metamagic Quicken/Subtle.
As for the summon suggestion, it is frawn upon like Ross (Friends) would say.... let say, we had 2 campaigns ago a druid that kept casting summons and it would just clutter the gameplay with the many players that we are. Sure, everyone is not always there but... at some point we each had one of his summons attached to our turn cause it would take him forever to complete his turn.....it was like the GM had 8 NPC to control, then you had the druid who had 9, and once anyone finished their turn, they would wait an hour to play their next round.....then it would get late, some player would fall asleep where we had to wake them up to play their turn, some others drunk or else.... and we would have to take a picture so that we can start from there once we get our next session....that was a nightmare..........that is why playing Star Wars RPG was way better with the theater of the mind which we now apply to DnD...........(my highlight among many fireballs in that campaign was as a mage saving the entengled barbarian from being crushed in pieces with thunderclap teleport which consequently turned the fight arround) maybe one fey isn't a big deal anyway ...but then again it is another concentration spell lol....
heavily obscured area—such as Darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the Blinded condition (see Conditions ) when trying to see something in that area.
Plant overgrowth:
All normal Plants in a 100-foot radius centered on that point become thick and overgrown. A creature moving through the area must spend 4 feet of Movement for every 1 foot it moves.
Should i conclude that overgrown plants are equivalent to dense folliage? I guess my logic here would say that to divide movement by 4, they must be at least as tall as a normal being....therefor result in dense folliage and therefor heavily obscured area
Seems reasonable.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I wouldn't say that to slow you down that much that it would have to be above head height. Thick undergrowth, particularly if you can't see the ground and need to be careful with your footing. DM's call, although I'd consider the default to be what you described.
Even if it was considered lower than head height (I'm assuming that it's the Sunlight Sensitivity), then the obscurity issue should be waived for things that would normally be above the height of the foliage.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
RAW: the spells effect says nothing about visibility so it would only have movement impact.
If a player asked for that result in a game I was running, it would likely depend on where it was cast.
Grassy field, mountain side, just the movement effect.
Dense forest I could allow the heavy obscurement, exit of a cave with vines around it I'd probably allow it to block view in/out.
Edit: I tend to imagine the effect as overly thick magical vines actively impeding a creature.
The spell Plant Growth doesn't say it makes the area heavily obscured so it shouldn't unless the DM decide to rule otherwise.
It may just mean that the foliage overgrow so thick that it impede your movement when walking but is otherwise not tall or dense enought to obscure your vision.
Heavily obscuring an area in a 100 foot radius is a very powerful effect to add to a spell that doesn't specify that effect. I think it could be a good thing to include in a druid's grove or the like where it might make sense that the spell is unusually potent, but not all the time. As Link said, I always pictured it to be knee- or waist-height growth, which is more than enough to drastically impede movement.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I understand everyone's point.
Although, to me, it would feel that the spell would be weaker if it would be obscured area because the ennemy would get some cover rather than being at the mercy of flying allies or like me with landstride just moving freely. Just a though here but i'm glad everyone gave their thoughs on this.
Thanks
RAW, the spell does not create concealment which is a separate mechanical effect. If the spell was intended to create such an easily described mechanical effect it that would be included in the spell description.
That being said, if a player explicitly asks if they can get that effect, it would be a case of the DM making a call on whether the situation is appropriate for the added effect. So the answer is "By RAW, no, but you can always ask your DM and hope they decide it sounds cool."
Given its large radius this is one of those spells where I often tend to prefer ruling it on the basis of what the player's actual intended goal is; for example, if they're not actually using the full radius but just trying to block off the entrance to a cave (like Noksa suggested) then I'd allow concealment on the assumption that they've limited the area and focused the effect on just the cave mouth.
But that's 100% house rule; Rules As Written it's for impeding movement only, and with its huge radius it's a good spell for doing exactly that, but sometimes it's good to give the players leeway as theatre of the mind groups don't always use movement and positioning super well. In such cases I think it's always better to be lenient with how a player can use a spell, so they're encouraged to actually use it at all, or use it more often (rather than axing it in favour of some other spell that everybody takes).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The funny thing here is that i actually asked this question to downplay the usage of Plant Growth which seem to be considered an OP spell.... from what i've read
Why i'm i saying this? Well, i just got access to level 3 spells and i've started to look at them one by one.
Though to take Conjure Barrage thinking it was like World of Warcraft; you shoot an arrow in the air and eventually it divides itself to the point of your choosing, but no no, it doesn't....it splits right away making this kind of useless.
Then you have Fire Arrows, a level 3 concentration spell (really, that needed to be Concentration?!?!) that allows to use 12 pieces of ammunitions which will allow 1D6 extra fire damage to your hit.... and you're like, but I can already do this with Hunter's Mark level 1 spell, sure there is a range of 90 feets to cast and switch to another ennemy, but it can last the whole fight if i'd want to, and both uses Concentration, the fact that it is magic damage is a non factor considering the low ammount of damage
Then you have Lightning Arrows, a level 3 spell, again Concentration spell (why?!?!...anyway), that transform your ammunition in a lightning bolt but now you lose your base ammunication damage and bonuses making it meh.....i'd rather pick Hail of Thorns and allow myself to upcast it....even with the saving throw, my base damage added will make it similar at least. I think there are both sides of the coin here but all in all, it is a level 1 spell that you can upcast up to 5 level above versus a level 3 spell that will then be able to be upcast too....
So it is like, what else is there....cause so far...nothing impressive...it feels more like changing 4 quarters for a dollar and getting screwed because of the change conversion fees (req lvl3 spell instead of lvl1 spell) and down the list you go to Plant Growth which is not even a Concentration (cause frankly every Ranger's fun spell are Concentration and therefor annoying....you can't have Silence or Spike Growth or Fog Clouds or (Darkness - Drow) or whatever while doing some extra damage cause all the extra damage requires concentration spells) where i can enlarge instantaneously a whole area, 100 radius.... 200 diameter... and slow down everybody. I could even double down with Spike Growth basically rendering melee ennemy useless....
Myself, i'll be able to move freely inside that area with Land Stride, and my teamates, well our spell caster can cast Fly on everyone .... so it would be like picking appart the ennemy with range attack and our melee could fly to those that tries to move away from the group or if there is any spell caster anywhere to kill them first...
Sure they could try to cast fireball or some AoE spell to kill the growth and i could cast it a second time...wasting their AoE spells.....and it feels like we will wrecked the whole fight that our GM is preparing showering us with magic item (which i disagree with) because the fight should be pretty impossible with some OP mobs (again which i disagree with, last fight the puppet boss (from the one we are about to meet) attacked 12 times the warrior in the same round due to legendary action...that was not fun....fortunately he barely survived due to his harf-orc trait and ran for his life...well that was it for him, the only thing he did was tank for 2 rounds and fled....good thing he toyed with the boss before engaging while we were clearing the mobs....otherwise he would be stew at this time.......so now the warrior received, among others, a full plate armor +2 with swords 2D6 fire which we were like, that is too OP so he just got one sword instead of two...).... i guess we will see, i've decided to play full Drow anyway...even though Half Elf Drow is way better in just every aspect... figure of speaking (i was allowed to tweak my character since we kind of started a new campaign but based on using our old characters from another campaign that lead nowhere, fun campaign though...we had lots of investigation and interaction with the people from town....not much fight...actually the GM was too kind of letting us "get out of fights" too easily that time arround)
But all in all, i was thinking about it and said to myself, well if the growth is so big that now i have disadvatange to hit or can't hit at all because i can't see them for instance, it makes it more fair in a way... after all, it is not just a big pumpkin (yes its not a plant, making it funny here) that will slow you down to 7.5 feets (almost as large as my tv...kiding) per 6 seconds....if you think about it....to me it feels more like a jungle where you would almost need a machete to make your way through it.... hey maybe it is just because there is lots of spiky vines all over the place generating that movement impaired which could be fair enough too cause otherwise you could trip and harm yourself if you go too fast...but then you could say, can i make an acrobatic check to go faster....lmao.... or the plants are as tall as your waist not allowing you to easily step on them...with lots of plant stem forcing you to slow down....that could make sense
All in all, i'll let the GM use his own instinct on this
I'm guessing based on the spells you listed that you're playing a ranger? If you're looking for an offensive boost in combat, rangers really don't have much: Conjure Animals or Summon Fey are probably your best bets.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Drow Ranger Gloomstalker level 9 indead :) Rolled stats 12-20-14-9-13-12. 75 hp. Yes i had some of the best rolls in the group, it is rarely the case, i can tell you that...but i got lucky there.
I was Half-Elf (+2, +1, +1) with feat (Sharpshooter, Elven Accuracy) and spell (Absorb Element, Hunter's Mark, Zephy Strike, Lesser Restoration, Pass without Trace)
Switching to Drow (+2, +1) with feat(+2 Dex, Sharpshooter) and spell (Absorb Element, Fog Clouds, Hail of Thorns, Pass without Trace, Silence, Plant Growth)
I'm thinking of upcasting Hail of Thorns on my first round as my bonus action to start the fight and making a big splash. After that, i could cast a spell that would help the team (fighter, barbarian, barbarian, paladin, warlock) on my second round (i have 3 Drow spells as well as 3 Gloomstalker spells that i haven't listed)
I'm losing a +1 lowering my WIS stat from 14 to 13 which i counter balanced by moving my dex one point giving up Elven Accuracy, getting Direct Sunlight flaw disadvantage on attack if myself or my target is in direct sunlight and same for perception check, 150 instead of 90 feets Darkvision (applied only to dim light due to hardmode), gaining 1 skill proficiency (used on deception to team up with Disguise Self spell) but perception is flawed, gainning Meditation 4 hours instead of the basic resting 8 hours, gaining 3 spells. But more importantly, i am a full Drow....not some Lineage (bland) Drow or Half-Elf Drow and it is the only reason why i'm making the switch....cause mechanically speaking the Half-Elf Drow is way better.... Planning on getting a +1 feat to Wisdom on level 12 if we ever get there, probably taking back Elven Accuracy although i'm tempted with Metamagic Quicken/Subtle.
As for the summon suggestion, it is frawn upon like Ross (Friends) would say.... let say, we had 2 campaigns ago a druid that kept casting summons and it would just clutter the gameplay with the many players that we are. Sure, everyone is not always there but... at some point we each had one of his summons attached to our turn cause it would take him forever to complete his turn.....it was like the GM had 8 NPC to control, then you had the druid who had 9, and once anyone finished their turn, they would wait an hour to play their next round.....then it would get late, some player would fall asleep where we had to wake them up to play their turn, some others drunk or else.... and we would have to take a picture so that we can start from there once we get our next session....that was a nightmare..........that is why playing Star Wars RPG was way better with the theater of the mind which we now apply to DnD...........(my highlight among many fireballs in that campaign was as a mage saving the entengled barbarian from being crushed in pieces with thunderclap teleport which consequently turned the fight arround) maybe one fey isn't a big deal anyway ...but then again it is another concentration spell lol....